Time trials

Quoted message said:

I notice quite a lot of TT's through quiet traffic calmed
villages are getting banned this year (including our
evening hilly). How long before they all end up on dual
carriageways?

Not good. We've got some interesting courses here in Norfolk
which go through villages.

Cheers, helen s

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MartinM said:

I notice quite a lot of TT's through quiet traffic calmed
villages are getting banned this year (including our
evening hilly). How long before they all end up on dual
carriageways?

If anything, there's a trend away from dual carriageways for
spurious safety reasons. IIRC dual carriageways are the
place you're least likely to get hit on a bike (good
visibility and plenty of room for overtaking cars), but some
riders don't like the long "spear point" junctions.

But yes, they've put traffic calming on our U48/10 this
year, although it's just a bit of modest road narrowing that
doesn't really get in the way. I'd rather be on the parallel
(and flat as a pancake) A419 dual carriageway, but I know
not everyone feels the same.

MartinM posted ...

Quoted message said:

I notice quite a lot of TT's through quiet traffic calmed
villages are getting banned this year (including our
evening hilly). How long before they all end up on dual
carriageways?

I used to prefer dual carriageways when riding TT's .. that
was some time ago though .. 😉

--
Paul

(8(|) Homer rocks .. 😉

MartinM said:

I notice quite a lot of TT's through quiet traffic calmed
villages are getting banned this year (including our
evening hilly). How long before they all end up on dual
carriageways?

Or more to the point, how long before they all get banned
completely?

John B

JohnB said:

MartinM said:

I notice quite a lot of TT's through quiet traffic calmed
villages are getting banned this year (including our
evening hilly). How long before they all end up on dual
carriageways?

Or more to the point, how long before they all get banned
completely?

John B

You'll all have to start wearing black, no numbers and use
code numbers for the courses so that the Police don't know
where you are planning to hold the event.

MSeries said:

You'll all have to start wearing black, no numbers and use
code numbers for the courses so that the Police don't know
where you are planning to hold the event.

Heh ;-)

More to the point, I like time trialling because it's the
only remaining discipline where you don't have to wear a
helmet (possibly only because head fairings offer no crash
protection). When you're riding at full tilt every bit of
ventilation counts!

MartinM said:

I notice quite a lot of TT's through quiet traffic calmed
villages are getting banned this year (including our
evening hilly). How long before they all end up on dual
carriageways?

As of next year every TT course will have to have a risk
assesment done. Signs will need to be put out to warn
motorists and these will have to be of the aproved type.
Marshals will have to be posted at roundabouts etc. The
sheer trouble of for instance geting 3 or maybe 6 marshals
(depending on how many per roundabout)for our evening 10
when there may be only 12 riders means a real possibility of
not being able to run the events at all. This will lead in
the short term to clubs having to hold joint events and in
the longer term to the amalgamation of clubs and is a step
towards driving us off the roads completely.

Stan Cox

MSeries said:

You'll all have to start wearing black, no numbers and use
code numbers for the courses so that the Police don't know
where you are planning to hold the event.

Meet at A1 services, bring own EPO?

Quoted message said:

As of next year every TT course will have to have a risk
assesment done. Signs will need to be put out to warn
motorists and these will have to be of the aproved type.
Marshals will have to be posted at roundabouts etc.

CC Breckland is already doing the above.

Quoted message said:

Marshals will have to be posted at roundabouts etc. The
sheer trouble of for instance geting 3 or maybe 6 marshals
(depending on how many per roundabout)for our evening 10
when there may be only 12 riders means a real possibility
of not being able to run the events at all.

Possibilities...

Clubs in an area help each other out & agree to provide
marshals for each other's events. Example - on a recent TT
here (actually got cancelled due to bad weather), another
local club agreed to provide the marshals for one junction.
Similarly, the club I belong to can be called upon to
recipricate when that club does a particular event. Co-
operation is a wonderful thing!

If another local club has riders benefitting from your club
putting on an event, particularly a long one, and said other
club can't be bothered to supply a marshal, I suppose you
could refuse to accept riders from such a club. Carrot &
stick approach ;-)

Make it a condition of club membership that you have to be
prepared to marshal at least once a year in order to ride
club events.

*Ask* for marshals - if you don't people won't come forward,
but if you ask nicely people often will. But son't expect
people to come forward without being asked - it's not going
to happen that often!

Certainly it's not easy to get marshals - people need to
be asked in good time (say 1 month) before an event. Plus,
it can need follow-ups too. I know, I've done it - it's a
long-winded job, but you get there int he end. Persistence
is the key

Clubs have members who are non-riders (certainly the one I
belong to has) - perhaps such members could be asked to
periodically act as marshals? In the club I belong to, I
don't ride any open events, and am happy to marshal such
events. Also we get people who ride events but, for
whatever reason aren't riding a particular event who will
act as a marshal on that one. Being part of a club means
you don't just take, you should give back too. For
example, both Nathan & Vernon enjoy TT'ing; Nathan in
particular. As a parent, I take him to events, and as I'm
already there, it's no extra hassle to marshal a turn
whilst the event is going on.

Perhaps club members need to be reminded that in order to
ride an event, the event *needs* marshalling and if they
can't be bothered to marshal even once a year, they require
a bit of a push - either that or it's teeling you something
about the club ;-)

Oh - after someone has marshalled - please remember to thank
them. It can be darned cold standing on a junction for an
hour or so.

In club competitions (not open events), make it a rule that
as a "joker" one is allowed to claim points for marshalling
*one* of the events per season. It makes competition
interesting ;-)

Hope the above offer some points to think about. Certainly
in my club there's a core of people who are prepared to
marshal more than others, but I thinks that's probably the
same in most clubs.

Perhaps it's Norfolk being a friendly sort of place, but
when I'm marshalling a turn, quite a lot of the riders will
call out a quick "thanks!" as they cycle by.

Cheers, helen s
p.s. at CC Breckland we also have a fine team of bakers who
supply excellent cakes post-event at HQ :-D

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correct one remove fame & fortune
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--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel
is switched off--

Stan Cox said:

MartinM said:

I notice quite a lot of TT's through quiet traffic
calmed villages are getting banned this year (including
our evening hilly). How long before they all end up on
dual carriageways?

As of next year every TT course will have to have a risk
assesment done. Signs will need to be put out to warn
motorists and these will have to be of the aproved type.
Marshals will have to be posted at roundabouts etc. The
sheer trouble of for instance geting 3 or maybe 6 marshals
(depending on how many per roundabout)for our evening 10
when there may be only 12 riders means a real possibility
of not being able to run the events at all. This will lead
in the short term to clubs having to hold joint events and
in the longer term to the amalgamation of clubs and is a
step towards driving us off the roads completely.

That you consider it "sheer trouble" to get marshals for
what is a race on an open public road makes me suspect that
safety is not perhaps always given the highest of
priorities. I hope it was just unfortunate choice of words.

I consider anything that makes time trialling sit up and
realise that safety has to be taken seriously is a Good
Thing. Risk assessments and good signage will surely help.
If clubs need to amalgamate and pool resources then so be
it, and it may even improve competition for the riders. If
steps are not taken then there is a greater risk of the
sport being taken off the public roads. How many died in
TT's last year?

I know that many people consider the sport to be dangerous
and irresponsible especially when the ruling body (and
therefore some clubs) would allow a 12 year old to ride on a
major dual carriageway amongst holiday and docks bound
traffic. I certainly consider parents who allow their
children to ride under the present rules should think again.

However there are a cyclists who do enjoy pounding dinner
plates in the quest of beating their previous best, but if
they wish the sport to continue they need to leave the days
of the alpaca jacket behind and respond to today's road
conditions.

...or perhaps move all TT's onto closed circuits.

John B

Stan Cox <[email hidden]> wrote:

: As of next year every TT course will have to have a risk
: assesment done. Signs will need to be put out to warn
: motorists and these will have to be of the aproved type.
: Marshals will have to be posted at roundabouts etc. The
: sheer trouble of for instance geting 3 or maybe 6 marshals
: (depending on how many per roundabout)for our evening 10
: when there may

How hard can it be? We (Clifton CC) are in a joint league
with three other clubs, so we have marhsalls on the
roundabouts without overstressing the helpers.

For our SPOCO courses in the lanes, we don't and that might
start to be a problem but I think it would be reasonable to
have a risk assessment that said "only left turns, no
marshalls needed, signs put out". Which is what we do. I
guess these are more like your events in that they are club
only and very low key.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<40855cc3.0@entanet>...

Quoted message said:

MartinM said:

I notice quite a lot of TT's through quiet traffic
calmed villages are getting banned this year (including
our evening hilly). How long before they all end up on
dual carriageways?

If anything, there's a trend away from dual carriageways
for spurious safety reasons. IIRC dual carriageways are
the place you're least likely to get hit on a bike (good
visibility and plenty of room for overtaking cars), but
some riders don't like the long "spear point" junctions.

That has caused an underpass on the A264 to be taken out of
the course, at first you had to go over the top and across
the roundabout, now you have to start/finish either end.

JohnB said:

Stan Cox said:

MartinM said:

I notice quite a lot of TT's through quiet traffic calmed
villages are getting banned this year (including our
evening hilly). How long before they all end up on dual
carriageways?

<snip>

Quoted message said:

That you consider it "sheer trouble" to get marshals
for what is a race on an open public road makes me
suspect that safety is not perhaps always given the
highest of priorities. I hope it was just unfortunate
choice of words.

Lets call it a bad choice of words. I would point out that
this is an individual rider who has the responsibilty to
ride safely and observe all the rules of the road. The
marshals have no real authority in law anyway. They can only
direct the riders in the correct direction and observe that
the do obey the rules.

Quoted message said:

I consider anything that makes time trialling sit up and
realise that safety has to be taken seriously is a Good
Thing. Risk assessments and good signage will surely help.
If clubs need to amalgamate and pool resources then so be
it, and it may even improve competition for the riders. If
steps are not taken then there is a greater risk of the
sport being taken off the public roads. How many died in
TT's last year?

I take your point about amalgamation. I have always thought
that there are far too many small clubs, at least in this
area (Brighton). During the last 10 years we have had three
nasty accidents during our club TT's None of which
thankfully have resulted in a death. All of which were
caused by riders not looking where they were going and
riding into either a car or the curb. No amount of
marshaling, signage etc would have avoided this.

Quoted message said:

I know that many people consider the sport to be dangerous
and irresponsible especially when the ruling body (and
therefore some clubs) would allow a 12 year old to ride on
a major dual carriageway amongst holiday and docks bound
traffic.

These people are clearly nuts

Quoted message said:

I certainly consider parents who allow their children to
ride under the present rules should think again.

Quoted message said:

However there are a cyclists who do enjoy pounding
dinner plates in the

quest of beating their previous best, but if they wish the
sport to continue they need to leave the days of the
alpaca jacket behind and respond to today's road
conditions.

...or perhaps move all TT's onto closed circuits.

And that kills TT's. and if TT's go that way bunch
races would also have to be held off road. So MTB's for
all racing 🙂

Quoted message said:

Stan Cox

Arthur Clune said:

Stan Cox <[email hidden]> wrote:

: As of next year every TT course will have to have a risk
: assesment done. Signs will need to be put out to warn
: motorists and these will have to be of the aproved type.
: Marshals will have to be posted at roundabouts etc. The
: sheer trouble of for instance geting 3 or maybe 6
: marshals (depending on how many per roundabout)for our
: evening 10 when there may

How hard can it be? We (Clifton CC) are in a joint league
with three other clubs, so we have marhsalls on the
roundabouts without overstressing the helpers.

For our SPOCO courses in the lanes, we don't and that
might start to be a problem but I think it would be
reasonable to have a risk assessment that said "only left
turns, no marshalls needed, signs put out". Which is what
we do. I guess these are more like your events in that
they are club only and very low key.

Arthur

Arthur As for joint leagues you know how club politics can
get 🙁 I cant think of the last time I had to do a right
turn in a tt. Yes the events I am talking about are very
much lanes based TT's. I fear that for these small events
marshalls may become a necessity. For open events the more
signs & marshals the better.

Stan Cox

Stan Cox <[email hidden]> wrote:

: As for joint leagues you know how club politics can get
: 🙁 I cant think of the last time I had to do a right
: turn in a tt.i

Teesdale Mountain TT. Also circuit of the dales which
(being a very old course) is acutally a right-hand turn
based circuit.

: Yes the events I am talking about are very much lanes
: based TT's. I fear that for these small events marshalls
: may become a necessity.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Cycling is like left wing politics - splitters one and all.

The People's Cycling Front of Judea v the Judean People's
Cycling Front....

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Stan Cox <[email hidden]> wrote:

: As for joint leagues you know how club politics can
: get 🙁 I cant think of the last time I had to do a
: right turn in a tt.i

Teesdale Mountain TT. Also circuit of the dales which
(being a very old course) is acutally a right-hand turn
based circuit.

: Yes the events I am talking about are very much lanes
: based TT's. I fear that for these small events marshalls
: may become a necessity.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Cycling is like left wing politics - splitters one
and all.

The People's Cycling Front of Judea v the Judean People's
Cycling Front....

What have the RTTC ever done for us? ;-)

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The People's Cycling Front of Judea v the Judean People's
Cycling Front....

Pah! Neither of them any good. Long live the Popular Front
for Judean Cycling!

--
Dave...

JohnB <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

However there are a cyclists who do enjoy pounding dinner
plates in the quest of beating their previous best, but if
they wish the sport to continue they need to leave the
days of the alpaca jacket behind and respond to today's
road conditions.

...or perhaps move all TT's onto closed circuits.

Or (as has happened) turn them into reliability trials.
I thought the main reason for moving onto dual
carriageways was to increase speeds; not necessarily to
make them any safer.