General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

What Supplements cause problems?

Started by Dave Wickware · · Last activity · 30 posts · 802 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
5 April 2004
Last activity
16 April 2004
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Dave Wickware
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  1. Vitamins & Minerals

    I believe that we should strive to eat things that were
    created by Nature, and in as natural a form as possible. Our
    bodies were designed to absorb nutrients in chelated form.

    If we examine the many nutritional supplements available for
    sale, it become apparent that the high degree of processing
    utilized in the manufacturing changes them from chelated (if
    they ever were) form to a manufactured form that cannot be
    fully and efficiently metabolized by our bodies. I knew that
    many higher quality of these products were made from natural
    ingredients and herbs, but wondered what the actual vitamins
    and minerals were made from. I had assumed the were made
    from food.

    As it turns out, nothing could be further from the truth.
    All vitamin and mineral supplements currently made are NOT
    blended foods. In fact most are made from very undesirable,
    even horrifying substances. If you look on your current
    bottle of nutrients, it will state the vitamins, minerals,
    and a long list of non nutrient items that do not offer any
    wanted benefits, such as starch, wheat, cellulose, soy,
    lactose coloring, flavoring, fillers, etc.

    Commercial grade vitamin and mineral concentrates are
    synthesized by chemical industries from the same starting
    material that drugs are made from (coal tar, petroleum
    products, animal by-products / waste and fecal matter,
    ground rocks, stones, shells and metal). These materials are
    processed and sold to many nutrient manufacturers as a
    "natural" nutrient rich base. The manufacturers are just
    mixing middlemen who don't know how these various vitamins
    and minerals are made, or from what, nobody asks. Everybody
    just assumes a vitamin is a vitamin.

    The United States Pharmacopeia ( U.S.P. ) states that if a
    product looks similar under a microscope, or in analysis,
    that it is the same regardless of what it is made out of.
    For instance salicylic acid u.s.p. is considered identical
    whether it comes from wintergreen leaves or by boiling
    coal in carbolic and sulfuric acids. It also considers
    glycerin u.s.p. identical whether it is made from fresh
    vegetables, toxic minerals or boiled down animal
    carcasses, cartilage and feet.

    Vitamins

    Many products marketed as natural vitamins, may actually be
    derived from sources that are not very desireable. Vitamin
    B-12 and cyanocobalamin, is made from either ground up cow
    livers or activated sewage sludge. If our cows are fed
    steroids, antibiotics, growth hormones and grass full of
    pesticides, their livers could be expected to be toxic. The
    sewage sludge is just that, fecal matter.

    Given that in today's environment, our immune systems are
    already depressed, these materials would be a health risk,
    not a health benefit. Just because a so-called natural
    substance (fecal matter is a natural substance) is high in a
    particular vitamin, does not make it suitable for food.

    Vitamin A is made from fish liver juices that we know are
    loaded with PCB's and mercury, B vitamins from coal tar and
    petro-chemicals, known central nervous system depressants,
    respiratory irritants and carcinogens, Vitamin C from acid
    blends irritating to the lining of the digestive tract,
    Vitamin D from radiated oil, Vitamin E is manufactured by
    Eastman Kodak, and on and on.

    Minerals

    The minerals commonly used in mineral supplements are mined
    ore, pulverized and powdered to a fine dust. Some calcium is
    made from ground up oyster shells. This is not a form that
    is useable by our bodies. Modern research confirms that
    minerals of this type are 99% inassimilable. The
    manufacturers response to this is to add pig digestive
    enzymes, which supposedly pre-digests it or chelates it, in
    their attempts to force our body to accept these toxic
    materials. We cannot find any proof that this provides any
    duplication of chelation.

    These manufactured supplements not only provide little
    benefit, they could contribute to the further
    accumulation of toxins in our bodies. What we need is a
    natural whole food.

    There are high quality supplements, but they must be
    carefully sought out. Like all things, the price can be an
    indicator of true value.

  2. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dave Wickware said:

    Vitamins & Minerals

    I believe that we should strive to eat things that were
    created by Nature,

    Absolutely! No technecium, promethium, or trans-uranic
    elements allowed. Especially not Californium-252.

    Quoted message said:

    and in as natural a form as possible. Our bodies were
    designed to absorb nutrients in chelated form.

    Our bodies weren't designed, and chelated minerals are
    obviously Spammin' Dave's latest scam.

    Quoted message said:

    I knew that many higher quality of these products were made
    from natural ingredients and herbs, but wondered what the
    actual vitamins and minerals were made from. I had assumed
    the were made from food.

    No vitamin is completely "made from food."

    Quoted message said:

    If you look on your current bottle of nutrients, it will
    state the vitamins, minerals, and a long list of non
    nutrient items that do not offer any wanted benefits, such
    as starch, wheat, cellulose, soy, lactose coloring,
    flavoring, fillers, etc.

    Soy is good for you.

    <blather about source of raw materials snipped>

    Quoted message said:

    Vitamins

    Many products marketed as natural vitamins, may actually be
    derived from sources that are not very desireable. Vitamin
    B-12 and cyanocobalamin, is made from either ground up cow
    livers or activated sewage sludge. If our cows are fed
    steroids, antibiotics, growth hormones and grass full of
    pesticides, their livers could be expected to be toxic. The
    sewage sludge is just that, fecal matter.

    So what? They sterilize it first. The only other way to get
    B12 is to eat dirt on the roots of plants.

    Quoted message said:

    Given that in today's environment, our immune systems are
    already depressed,

    No they aren't.

    Quoted message said:

    Vitamin A is made from fish liver juices that we know are
    loaded with PCB's and mercury, B vitamins from coal tar and
    petro-chemicals, known central nervous system depressants,
    respiratory irritants and carcinogens, Vitamin C from acid
    blends irritating to the lining of the digestive tract,
    Vitamin D from radiated oil, Vitamin E is manufactured by
    Eastman Kodak, and on and on.

    Good for Kodak. The rest of what you're writing, or most
    likely quoting, is the usual snake-oil salesman's [censored].

    Quoted message said:

    Minerals

    The minerals commonly used in mineral supplements are mined
    ore, pulverized and powdered to a fine dust. Some calcium
    is made from ground up oyster shells. This is not a form
    that is useable by our bodies.

    Wrong. As usual.

    Quoted message said:

    Modern research confirms that minerals of this type are 99%
    inassimilable.

    Oh, really? Let's see that "research."

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  3. "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dave Wickware said:

    Vitamins & Minerals

    I believe that we should strive to eat things that were
    created by


    Nature,

    Currently becoming more and more Impossible due to mans
    tinkering with genetics.

    Quoted message said:

    Absolutely! No technecium, promethium, or trans-uranic
    elements allowed. Especially not Californium-252.

    Quoted message said:

    and in as natural a form as possible. Our bodies were
    designed to absorb nutrients in chelated form.

    Vitamins are not in their natural form, and in high doses
    show their drug like tendancies.

    Quoted message said:

    Our bodies weren't designed, and chelated minerals are
    obviously Spammin' Dave's latest scam.

    Our bodies _were_ designed by nature and evolution.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I knew that many higher quality of these products were
    made from natural ingredients and herbs, but wondered
    what the actual vitamins and minerals were made from. I
    had assumed the were made from food.

    No vitamin is completely "made from food."

    Quoted message said:

    If you look on your current bottle of nutrients, it will
    state the vitamins, minerals, and a long list of non
    nutrient items that do not offer any wanted benefits,
    such as starch, wheat, cellulose, soy, lactose coloring,
    flavoring, fillers, etc.

    Soy is good for you.

    <blather about source of raw materials snipped>

    Quoted message said:

    Vitamins

    Many products marketed as natural vitamins, may actually
    be derived from sources that are not very desireable.
    Vitamin B-12 and cyanocobalamin, is made from either
    ground up cow livers or activated sewage sludge. If our
    cows are fed steroids, antibiotics, growth hormones and
    grass full of pesticides, their livers could be expected
    to be toxic. The sewage sludge


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    just that, fecal matter.

    So what? They sterilize it first. The only other way to
    get B12 is to eat dirt on the roots of plants.

    Eat your own feces.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Given that in today's environment, our immune systems are
    already depressed,

    No they aren't.

    Yes they are.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Vitamin A is made from fish liver juices that we know are
    loaded with PCB's and mercury, B vitamins from coal tar
    and petro-chemicals, known central nervous system
    depressants, respiratory irritants and carcinogens,
    Vitamin C from acid blends irritating to the lining of
    the digestive tract, Vitamin D from radiated oil, Vitamin
    E is manufactured by Eastman Kodak, and on and on.

    Good for Kodak. The rest of what you're writing, or most
    likely quoting, is the usual snake-oil salesman's [censored].

    Quoted message said:

    Minerals

    The minerals commonly used in mineral supplements are
    mined ore,


    pulverized

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and powdered to a fine dust. Some calcium is made from
    ground up oyster shells. This is not a form that is
    useable by our bodies.

    Wrong. As usual.

    Quoted message said:

    Modern research confirms that minerals of this type are
    99% inassimilable.

    I'd rather have nice drink of milk than swallow coral
    calcium.

    Quoted message said:

    Oh, really? Let's see that "research."

    Indeed let's see it? Anth.

    Quoted message said:

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  4. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dave Wickware said:

    Vitamins & Minerals

    I believe that we should strive to eat things that were
    created by


    Nature,

    Currently becoming more and more Impossible due to mans
    tinkering with genetics.

    "I used to try to eat a lot of natural foods -- until I
    discovered that most people die of natural causes."

    Quoted message said:

    Vitamins are not in their natural form, and in high doses
    show their drug like tendancies.

    True.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Our bodies weren't designed, and chelated minerals are
    obviously Spammin' Dave's latest scam.

    Our bodies _were_ designed by nature and evolution.

    Design is a conscious process. Evolution isn't.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So what? They sterilize it first. The only other way to
    get B12 is to eat dirt on the roots of plants.

    Eat your own feces.

    After you.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Given that in today's environment, our immune systems
    are already depressed,

    No they aren't.

    Yes they are.

    Uh uh. A common assertion, not one that I've seen proven.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Modern research confirms that minerals of this type are
    99% inassimilable.

    I'd rather have nice drink of milk than swallow coral
    calcium.

    Me too.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  5. "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Design is a conscious process. Evolution isn't.

    Well that's matter of opinion realy, and where your personal
    belief comes from.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So what? They sterilize it first. The only other way to
    get B12 is to eat dirt on the roots of plants.

    Eat your own feces.

    After you.

    I'd rather not thanks you although I doubt eating ones feces
    would cause much harm..

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Given that in today's environment, our immune systems
    >are already depressed,

    No they aren't.

    Yes they are.

    Uh uh. A common assertion, not one that I've seen proven.

    Cancer and immunity.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Modern research confirms that minerals of this type
    >are 99% inassimilable.

    I'd rather have nice drink of milk than swallow coral
    calcium.

    Me too.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Design is a conscious process. Evolution isn't.

    Well that's matter of opinion realy, and where your
    personal belief comes from.

    No, design by definition is a conscious process that
    includes a designer. I commend Dawkins's book "The Blind
    Watchmaker" to your attention. Given some of the horrendous
    arrangements in the human body, calling it "design" is
    almost insulting. I'd fire any designer who came up with
    some of these choices.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Eat your own feces.

    After you.

    I'd rather not thanks you although I doubt eating ones
    feces would cause much harm..

    Do you? There's a lot of bad bacteria in there.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >Given that in today's environment, our immune systems
    > >are already depressed,
    >
    > No they aren't.

    Yes they are.

    Uh uh. A common assertion, not one that I've seen proven.

    Cancer and immunity.

    That's not any sort of answer. Besides, the rates of some
    types of cancer are dropping, and for many others, the age-
    adjusted rates are not getting any worse. So your evidence
    is flimsy -- and you haven't even started to prove that any
    rise in cancer is due to a diminution of the immune system.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  7. "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Anth

    Quoted message said:

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Design is a conscious process. Evolution isn't.

    Well that's matter of opinion realy, and where your
    personal belief comes from.

    No, design by definition is a conscious process that
    includes a designer. I commend Dawkins's book "The Blind
    Watchmaker" to your attention. Given some of the
    horrendous arrangements in the human body, calling it
    "design" is almost insulting. I'd fire any designer who
    came up with some of these choices.

    I disagree, your argument implies you have disproved GOD,
    which I think you have not - there's a few thousands years
    of debate being that argument with people getting no where!
    The human body is very complex, there's no way you could
    design a machine that is self repairing like that with such
    complexity, you may be able to emulate it by looking at the
    'wiring under the board' but you cannot consciously create
    it. When you die you will be in the same situation as
    everyone else - waiting for the truth at heavens gates, or
    maybe you believe that you just cease to exist.

    Quoted message said:

    That's not any sort of answer. Besides, the rates of some
    types of cancer are dropping, and for many others, the
    age-adjusted rates are not getting any worse. So your
    evidence is flimsy -- and you haven't even started to
    prove that any rise in cancer is due to a diminution of
    the immune system.

    There's plenty of vivo studies (on pubmed) which show that
    damaged/blocked immune system is responsible for cancers.
    Some cancer rates are increasing and in the younger
    generation, so the argument for cancer being a disease of
    the old is un founded.

    Also, I suggest you look at Galen Knights work on
    Vitalethene (which incidently is classed as 'quackery'😉 A
    particular point, being that the size of the tumour actually
    was proved to relate to outcome with the immune booster,
    such mechanisms were documented, as the tumour masses would
    poison the action of the immune system from clearing the
    waste and attacking more of the tumours. This was in mouse
    models, which are very similar to human immune models.

    Quoted message said:

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

    Anth

  8. Kaposi's sarcoma is an depleted immune system cancer. Anth

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    Kaposi's sarcoma is an depleted immune system cancer.

    It's also caused by a virus, which is not true of most
    cancers. (Cervical cancer is another.)

    Try again.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  10. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Anth

    Quoted message said:

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    > Design is a conscious process. Evolution isn't.

    Well that's matter of opinion realy, and where your
    personal belief comes from.

    No, design by definition is a conscious process that
    includes a designer. I commend Dawkins's book "The Blind
    Watchmaker" to your attention. Given some of the
    horrendous arrangements in the human body, calling it
    "design" is almost insulting. I'd fire any designer who
    came up with some of these choices.

    I disagree, your argument implies you have disproved GOD,
    which I think you have not

    I don't think I have either, since it can't be done.

    Quoted message said:

    - there's a few thousands years of debate being that
    argument with people getting no where!

    Not true at all. I see you're not at all up on
    evolutionary theory.

    Quoted message said:

    The human body is very complex, there's no way you could
    design a machine that is self repairing like that with
    such complexity, you may be able to emulate it by looking
    at the 'wiring under the board' but you cannot consciously
    create it.

    So what? The fact that I can't create it doesn't mean I
    can't tell you ways it could be improved (I can).

    Quoted message said:

    When you die you will be in the same situation as everyone
    else - waiting for the truth at heavens gates, or maybe you
    believe that you just cease to exist.

    What I believe is none of your business, and has nothing to
    do with the topic at hand anyway.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That's not any sort of answer. Besides, the rates of some
    types of cancer are dropping, and for many others, the
    age-adjusted rates are not getting any worse. So your
    evidence is flimsy -- and you haven't even started to
    prove that any rise in cancer is due to a diminution of
    the immune system.

    There's plenty of vivo studies (on pubmed) which show that
    damaged/blocked immune system is responsible for cancers.
    Some cancer rates are increasing and in the younger
    generation, so the argument for cancer being a disease of
    the old is un founded.

    Again, so what? There are some cancers that are rising in
    frequency and some that are dropping. The mere fact that a
    damaged immune system can lead to cancer does NOT imply that
    all cancers arise from a damaged immune system.

    Quoted message said:

    Also, I suggest you look at Galen Knights work on
    Vitalethene (which incidently is classed as 'quackery'😉

    I've got no problem with that, either.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  11. By the same reasoning diabetes is caused by high blood
    sugars. The other argument about intelligent design invokes
    Occam's razor Anth

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Anth

    Quoted message said:

    Kaposi's sarcoma is an depleted immune system cancer.

    It's also caused by a virus, which is not true of most
    cancers. (Cervical cancer is another.)

    Try again.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  12. I have written an ebook on this topic on what the real
    problem is. The title is 'How capitalism is killing us all'.
    I honestly cannot figure out why no one else has figured
    this out. May be I am nuts but I have a back ground that
    lets me see outside the box. I have been into nutrition and
    have a few success stories. Believe it or not my free ebook
    will open your eyes why the medical industry is fighting a
    losing battle. Until they recognize the problem they will
    never find a real solution to the increase in cancer deaths
    and other diseases. You may think I am nuts. Why hasn't
    anyone else figured this out? There to busy working on
    detection and fixing after it breaks and what I talk about
    in the ebook is the real reason.

    The Truth About Capitalism and How It IS Killing Us ALL!!

    If this does not make you mad you are dead already!

    This is why we are losing the War on Cancer and every other
    debilitating disease known to man. If you have parents over
    50 you need to see this If you know someone with diabetes
    you need to see this If you know someone with Alzheimer's
    you need to see this If you know someone who is obese you
    need to see this If you have elderly parents under your care
    you need to see this go to this link to start
    ez2repete.comCapkillSales.html

    [email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Anth

    Quoted message said:

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Anth
    <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    >message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    >gy.com...
    >> Design is a conscious process. Evolution isn't.
    >
    >Well that's matter of opinion realy, and where your
    >personal belief comes from.

    No, design by definition is a conscious process that
    includes a designer. I commend Dawkins's book "The
    Blind Watchmaker" to your attention. Given some of the
    horrendous arrangements in the human body, calling it
    "design" is almost insulting. I'd fire any designer who
    came up with some of these choices.

    I disagree, your argument implies you have disproved GOD,
    which I think you have not

    I don't think I have either, since it can't be done.

    Quoted message said:

    - there's a few thousands years of debate being that
    argument with people getting no where!

    Not true at all. I see you're not at all up on
    evolutionary theory.

    Quoted message said:

    The human body is very complex, there's no way you could
    design a machine that is self repairing like that with
    such complexity, you may be able to emulate it by looking
    at the 'wiring under the board' but you cannot
    consciously create it.

    So what? The fact that I can't create it doesn't mean I
    can't tell you ways it could be improved (I can).

    Quoted message said:

    When you die you will be in the same situation as
    everyone else - waiting for the truth at heavens gates,
    or maybe you believe that you just cease to exist.

    What I believe is none of your business, and has nothing
    to do with the topic at hand anyway.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That's not any sort of answer. Besides, the rates of
    some types of cancer are dropping, and for many others,
    the age-adjusted rates are not getting any worse. So
    your evidence is flimsy -- and you haven't even started
    to prove that any rise in cancer is due to a diminution
    of the immune system.

    There's plenty of vivo studies (on pubmed) which show
    that damaged/blocked immune system is responsible for
    cancers. Some cancer rates are increasing and in the
    younger generation, so the argument for cancer being a
    disease of the old is un founded.

    Again, so what? There are some cancers that are rising in
    frequency and some that are dropping. The mere fact that a
    damaged immune system can lead to cancer does NOT imply
    that all cancers arise from a damaged immune system.

    Quoted message said:

    Also, I suggest you look at Galen Knights work on
    Vitalethene (which incidently is classed as 'quackery'😉

    I've got no problem with that, either.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  13. Thanks for the information. This just strengthens my view point.
    Vitamins and minerals use to come to us through the eating of fruits
    and vegetables. The answer to all this may be hydroponics and growing
    your own fruits and vegetables. Any way sign up for my newsletter and
    get a free ebook on 'How capitalism is killing us all'. I am
    passionate about this topic.
    ez2repete.comCapkillSales.html

    "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Vitamins & Minerals

    I believe that we should strive to eat things that were
    created by Nature, and in as natural a form as
    possible. Our bodies were designed to absorb nutrients
    in chelated form.

    If we examine the many nutritional supplements available
    for sale, it become apparent that the high degree of
    processing utilized in the manufacturing changes them from
    chelated (if they ever were) form to a manufactured form
    that cannot be fully and efficiently metabolized by our
    bodies. I knew that many higher quality of these products
    were made from natural ingredients and herbs, but wondered
    what the actual vitamins and minerals were made from. I
    had assumed the were made from food.

    As it turns out, nothing could be further from the truth.
    All vitamin and mineral supplements currently made are NOT
    blended foods. In fact most are made from very
    undesirable, even horrifying substances. If you look on
    your current bottle of nutrients, it will state the
    vitamins, minerals, and a long list of non nutrient items
    that do not offer any wanted benefits, such as starch,
    wheat, cellulose, soy, lactose coloring, flavoring,
    fillers, etc.

    Commercial grade vitamin and mineral concentrates are
    synthesized by chemical industries from the same starting
    material that drugs are made from (coal tar, petroleum
    products, animal by-products / waste and fecal matter,
    ground rocks, stones, shells and metal). These materials
    are processed and sold to many nutrient manufacturers as a
    "natural" nutrient rich base. The manufacturers are just
    mixing middlemen who don't know how these various vitamins
    and minerals are made, or from what, nobody asks.
    Everybody just assumes a vitamin is a vitamin.

    The United States Pharmacopeia ( U.S.P. ) states that if a
    product looks similar under a microscope, or in analysis,
    that it is the same regardless of what it is made out of.
    For instance salicylic acid u.s.p. is considered identical
    whether it comes from wintergreen leaves or by boiling
    coal in carbolic and sulfuric acids. It also considers
    glycerin u.s.p. identical whether it is made from fresh
    vegetables, toxic minerals or boiled down animal
    carcasses, cartilage and feet.

    Vitamins

    Many products marketed as natural vitamins, may actually
    be derived from sources that are not very desireable.
    Vitamin B-12 and cyanocobalamin, is made from either
    ground up cow livers or activated sewage sludge. If our
    cows are fed steroids, antibiotics, growth hormones and
    grass full of pesticides, their livers could be expected
    to be toxic. The sewage sludge is just that, fecal matter.

    Given that in today's environment, our immune systems are
    already depressed, these materials would be a health risk,
    not a health benefit. Just because a so-called natural
    substance (fecal matter is a natural substance) is high in
    a particular vitamin, does not make it suitable for food.

    Vitamin A is made from fish liver juices that we know are
    loaded with PCB's and mercury, B vitamins from coal tar
    and petro-chemicals, known central nervous system
    depressants, respiratory irritants and carcinogens,
    Vitamin C from acid blends irritating to the lining of the
    digestive tract, Vitamin D from radiated oil, Vitamin E is
    manufactured by Eastman Kodak, and on and on.

    Minerals

    The minerals commonly used in mineral supplements are
    mined ore, pulverized and powdered to a fine dust. Some
    calcium is made from ground up oyster shells. This is not
    a form that is useable by our bodies. Modern research
    confirms that minerals of this type are 99% inassimilable.
    The manufacturers response to this is to add pig digestive
    enzymes, which supposedly pre-digests it or chelates it,
    in their attempts to force our body to accept these toxic
    materials. We cannot find any proof that this provides any
    duplication of chelation.

    These manufactured supplements not only provide little
    benefit, they could contribute to the further
    accumulation of toxins in our bodies. What we need is a
    natural whole food.

    There are high quality supplements, but they must be
    carefully sought out. Like all things, the price can be an
    indicator of true value.

  14. David what is your problem? You sound frustrated. I'll tell you the
    real problem. Man and our free enterprise system. In most cases it
    works real well but there are flaws and if you read my free ebook you
    can tell me what you think. I believe that people with too much
    education do not know how to see outside the box. I have a process
    controls engineering background and I have been into nutrition for 15
    years. As a control engineer I know that it does not matter if you
    have the best controls it the world if you have the wrong chemicals
    you will not get the product that you are expecting to get.
    ez2repete.comCapkillSales.html
    [email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Anth

    Quoted message said:

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Anth
    <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    >message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    >gy.com...
    >> Design is a conscious process. Evolution isn't.
    >
    >Well that's matter of opinion realy, and where your
    >personal belief comes from.

    No, design by definition is a conscious process that
    includes a designer. I commend Dawkins's book "The
    Blind Watchmaker" to your attention. Given some of the
    horrendous arrangements in the human body, calling it
    "design" is almost insulting. I'd fire any designer who
    came up with some of these choices.

    I disagree, your argument implies you have disproved GOD,
    which I think you have not

    I don't think I have either, since it can't be done.

    Quoted message said:

    - there's a few thousands years of debate being that
    argument with people getting no where!

    Not true at all. I see you're not at all up on
    evolutionary theory.

    Quoted message said:

    The human body is very complex, there's no way you could
    design a machine that is self repairing like that with
    such complexity, you may be able to emulate it by looking
    at the 'wiring under the board' but you cannot
    consciously create it.

    So what? The fact that I can't create it doesn't mean I
    can't tell you ways it could be improved (I can).

    Quoted message said:

    When you die you will be in the same situation as
    everyone else - waiting for the truth at heavens gates,
    or maybe you believe that you just cease to exist.

    What I believe is none of your business, and has nothing
    to do with the topic at hand anyway.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That's not any sort of answer. Besides, the rates of
    some types of cancer are dropping, and for many others,
    the age-adjusted rates are not getting any worse. So
    your evidence is flimsy -- and you haven't even started
    to prove that any rise in cancer is due to a diminution
    of the immune system.

    There's plenty of vivo studies (on pubmed) which show
    that damaged/blocked immune system is responsible for
    cancers. Some cancer rates are increasing and in the
    younger generation, so the argument for cancer being a
    disease of the old is un founded.

    Again, so what? There are some cancers that are rising in
    frequency and some that are dropping. The mere fact that a
    damaged immune system can lead to cancer does NOT imply
    that all cancers arise from a damaged immune system.

    Quoted message said:

    Also, I suggest you look at Galen Knights work on
    Vitalethene (which incidently is classed as 'quackery'😉

    I've got no problem with that, either.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  15. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    By the same reasoning diabetes is caused by high blood
    sugars. The other argument about intelligent design invokes
    Occam's razor

    You're still putting the cart before the horse, Anth. You
    haven't shown that cancers are generally rising and you
    haven't shown that any rise in cancers is due to the
    "weakened immune systems" of the people getting the cancers.
    You're basically assuming your conclusion and then claiming
    you've proved something.

    And since you didn't quote any material relating to
    intelligent design, I'm going to ignore you on that point.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

    Quoted message said:

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Anth

    Quoted message said:

    Kaposi's sarcoma is an depleted immune system cancer.

    It's also caused by a virus, which is not true of most
    cancers. (Cervical cancer is another.)

    Try again.

  16. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Peter Blackman said:

    David what is your problem? You sound frustrated.

    I'm only frustrated by people like you, who use something I
    wrote to launch into a completely unrelated tirade. In your
    case, your tirade is intended to push people into reading
    your book.

    I don't "sound frustrated" in my posting you quoted. That's
    just your imagination.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

    Quoted message said:

    I'll tell you the real problem. Man and our free enterprise
    system. In most cases it works real well but there are
    flaws and if you read my free ebook you can tell me what
    you think. I believe that people with too much education do
    not know how to see outside the box. I have a process
    controls engineering background and I have been into
    nutrition for 15 years. As a control engineer I know that
    it does not matter if you have the best controls it the
    world if you have the wrong chemicals you will not get the
    product that you are expecting to get.
    ez2repete.comCapkillSales.html
    [email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Anth

    Quoted message said:

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    > In article <[email hidden]>, Anth
    > <[email hidden]> wrote:
    > >"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    > >message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    > >igy.com...
    > >> Design is a conscious process. Evolution isn't.
    > >
    > >Well that's matter of opinion realy, and where your
    > >personal belief comes from.
    >
    > No, design by definition is a conscious process that
    > includes a designer. I commend Dawkins's book "The
    > Blind Watchmaker" to your attention. Given some of the
    > horrendous arrangements in the human body, calling it
    > "design" is almost insulting. I'd fire any designer
    > who came up with some of these choices.

    I disagree, your argument implies you have disproved
    GOD, which I think you have not

    I don't think I have either, since it can't be done.

    Quoted message said:

    - there's a few thousands years of debate being that
    argument with people getting no where!

    Not true at all. I see you're not at all up on
    evolutionary theory.

    Quoted message said:

    The human body is very complex, there's no way you could
    design a machine that is self repairing like that with
    such complexity, you may be able to emulate it by
    looking at the 'wiring under the board' but you cannot
    consciously create it.

    So what? The fact that I can't create it doesn't mean I
    can't tell you ways it could be improved (I can).

    Quoted message said:

    When you die you will be in the same situation as
    everyone else - waiting for the truth at heavens gates,
    or maybe you believe that you just cease to exist.

    What I believe is none of your business, and has nothing
    to do with the topic at hand anyway.

    Quoted message said:

    > That's not any sort of answer. Besides, the rates of
    > some types of cancer are dropping, and for many
    > others, the age-adjusted rates are not getting any
    > worse. So your evidence is flimsy -- and you haven't
    > even started to prove that any rise in cancer is due
    > to a diminution of the immune system.

    There's plenty of vivo studies (on pubmed) which show
    that damaged/blocked immune system is responsible for
    cancers. Some cancer rates are increasing and in the
    younger generation, so the argument for cancer being a
    disease of the old is un founded.

    Again, so what? There are some cancers that are rising in
    frequency and some that are dropping. The mere fact that
    a damaged immune system can lead to cancer does NOT imply
    that all cancers arise from a damaged immune system.

    Quoted message said:

    Also, I suggest you look at Galen Knights work on
    Vitalethene (which incidently is classed as 'quackery'😉

    I've got no problem with that, either.

  17. Yes I have - I responded to Jan's post, and yes cancer rates
    are increasing in the younger generation also - go look it
    up - the information is there.. Ignore all you wish. Anth

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Anth

    Quoted message said:

    By the same reasoning diabetes is caused by high blood
    sugars. The other argument about intelligent design
    invokes Occam's razor

    You're still putting the cart before the horse, Anth. You
    haven't shown that cancers are generally rising and you
    haven't shown that any rise in cancers is due to the
    "weakened immune systems" of the people getting the
    cancers. You're basically assuming your conclusion and
    then claiming you've proved something.

    And since you didn't quote any material relating to
    intelligent design, I'm going to ignore you on that point.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  18. Translation : I can't be arsed reading your book. Anth

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article
    <[email hidden]>, Peter

    Blackman said:

    David what is your problem? You sound frustrated.

    I'm only frustrated by people like you, who use something
    I wrote to launch into a completely unrelated tirade. In
    your case, your tirade is intended to push people into
    reading your book.

    I don't "sound frustrated" in my posting you quoted.
    That's just your imagination.

  19. [email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Anth

    Quoted message said:

    Kaposi's sarcoma is an depleted immune system cancer.

    It's also caused by a virus, which is not true of most
    cancers. (Cervical cancer is another.)

    Try again.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

    Indeed, the occurence of Kaposi's sarcoma in patients with
    HIV/AIDS was one of the red flags that had docs baffled
    when AIDS was still a complete mystery 25 years ago -- it
    is a cancer that used to be found in a far different
    demographic group than the folks who were coming in to MD
    offices with it.

  20. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Anth said:

    Yes I have - I responded to Jan's post, and yes cancer
    rates are increasing in the younger generation also -
    go look it up - the information is there.. Ignore all
    you wish.

    As the BBC web story pointed out, yes, pediatric cancer
    rates have been rising very slowly.

    You then assert that this is due to "weakened immune
    systems." In fact, nobody knows what's causing it.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

    Quoted message said:

    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Anth

    Quoted message said:

    By the same reasoning diabetes is caused by high blood
    sugars. The other argument about intelligent design
    invokes Occam's razor

    You're still putting the cart before the horse, Anth. You
    haven't shown that cancers are generally rising and you
    haven't shown that any rise in cancers is due to the
    "weakened immune systems" of the people getting the
    cancers. You're basically assuming your conclusion and
    then claiming you've proved something.

    And since you didn't quote any material relating to
    intelligent design, I'm going to ignore you on that
    point.

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