Roady Etiquette

"Spencer Bullen" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

Since I'm in the same clothing, most of which is MTB stuff
(peaked helmet and baggy MTB tops to contain my large
gut!) I can only assume that drop bars are the cycling
equivalent of a Masonic hand shake. I'll wait to see if
this continues in summer when I switch from my bib knicks
to cycling baggies.

I'll give you a Masonic handshake, if we ever meet ;-)
I've noticed this as well not only from roadies, but
also from car drivers. When I was riding a cheap MTB in
tracky bottoms I suppose they thought "poor sod can't
afford a car", but riding a new Italian road bike in
lycra get's a different response along the lines of "I
wish I could do that".

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W
simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.netOpen ↗

Spencer Bullen said:

The biggest change, however, that I've noticed is the
change in attitude from people on road bikes. Whereas
before I could at most expect to be ignored on an MTB,
I've now been readmitted to a club reserved for those with
drop handlebars. Stops at lights now have chats and kit
comparisons, and even passing in opposite directions at
least a nod or a wave is the norm.

Since I'm in the same clothing, most of which is MTB stuff
(peaked helmet and baggy MTB tops to contain my large
gut!) I can only assume that drop bars are the cycling
equivalent of a Masonic hand shake. I'll wait to see if
this continues in summer when I switch from my bib knicks
to cycling baggies.

Probably because the average bod who thinks "I'll take up
cycling" goes to Halfords, gets a [censored] mountain bike and
then rides it for 2 weeks, whereas your average road bike
buyer will be fairly serious about cycling.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:19:28 +0100, "Spencer Bullen"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Since I'm in the same clothing, most of which is MTB stuff
(peaked helmet and baggy MTB tops to contain my large gut!)
I can only assume that drop bars are the cycling equivalent
of a Masonic hand shake.

Drop bars say "cyclist" not "bloke on bike" :-)

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

Doki said:

Probably because the average bod who thinks "I'll take up
cycling" goes to Halfords, gets a [censored] mountain bike and
then rides it for 2 weeks, whereas your average road bike
buyer will be fairly serious about cycling.

But why then do roadies give the same attutude to a couple
of my mate when riding their £2500 worth of MTB?

a subset of roadies look down on any mtb as not real cycling

pk

Just zis Guy said:

Drop bars say "cyclist" not "bloke on bike" :-)

This is true, but IMHO a rather unfortunate piece of
snobbery from some, as there's nothing wrong with being a
"bloke on bike". Also directed at small wheels to some
degree. Though any roadie worth their salt can leave me in
the dust whatever I'm riding, the sad cases of nice bike, no
engine seem to get quite upset when you keep up with them on
the Brompton (they tend not to understand drafting too well,
especially how easy it is with a 16" front wheel!). Round
here the serious roadies are, at least IME, a friendy crowd
whatever I'm riding. I'd be happy to go out with them, if
only I stood a chance of keeping up.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:19:28 +0100, "Spencer Bullen"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message <4hsec.65662$Id.30667@news-
binary.blueyonder.co.uk>:

Quoted message said:

Since I'm in the same clothing, most of which is MTB
stuff (peaked helmet and baggy MTB tops to contain my
large gut!) I can only assume that drop bars are the
cycling equivalent of a Masonic hand shake.

Drop bars say "cyclist" not "bloke on bike" :-)

Not always - there are still a lot of old Raleigh "racing"
bikes about from the 1970s + 80s usually ridden by blokes
in their 60s - I bought one for its wheels here:
simonmason.karoo.netbanana9.jpgOpen ↗

These don't seem to get much of a second glance.

Simon M.

PK said:

Doki said:

Probably because the average bod who thinks "I'll take up
cycling" goes to Halfords, gets a [censored] mountain bike and
then rides it for 2 weeks, whereas your average road bike
buyer will be fairly serious about cycling.

But why then do roadies give the same attutude to a couple
of my mate when riding their £2500 worth of MTB?

a subset of roadies look down on any mtb as not real
cycling

Perhaps, I don't know any roadies, but given the way
Halfords etc. slavishly copy the looks of decent bikes,
it's not always obvious at a glance if a bike's any good or
not, particularly if you don't know mountain bikes. There's
also the fact that most serious mountain bikes won't spend
much time on the road, except for riding to / from the
woods or wherever.

Quoted message said:

The biggest change, however, that I've noticed is the
change in attitude from people on road bikes. Whereas
before I could at most expect to be ignored on an MTB,
I've now been readmitted to a club reserved for those with
drop handlebars. Stops at lights now have chats and kit
comparisons, and even passing in opposite directions at
least a nod or a wave is the norm.

A while ago, before I got myself some 'proper' cycling
clothes, I found myself sharing a stretch of road with a
chap who was obviously in hard training. I latched on to his
tail and managed to keep up for a couple of miles. Then I
thought it would be only polite to take my turn at the
front, so I passed him, with a nod and an 'all right' as I
did. Of course, he took this as a challenge and immediately
set about trying to burn me off. I managed to hold his wheel
for a bit longer but then we came to a town laden with sharp
turns, which he took at racing speed while I had to proceed
somewhat more cautiously. I'm not sure I could have kept up
with him much longer anyway, but it was fun while it lasted.

Since then, post wardrobe change, I find that I too have
suddenly become a member of this same club. I haven't run
into the same chap again but I wonder if he would feel the
same way about sharing the road with me if I
did.

d.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:04:24 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

... (they tend not to understand drafting too well,
especially how easy it is with a 16" front wheel!).

I do hope they know you're there!

- One piece of *real* cycling ettiquette is that you don't
draft without the permission of the geezer in front.

If they don't understand drafting too well, then they're
unlikely to be giving any verbal or visual warnings of
imminent trouble.

At speed a seperation of less than a wheel's diameter
doesn't give a lot of reaction time.

Cheers,

Vic.

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Is the Raleigh Banana you fixed up any good, or is it
another racing bike lookalike job? Saw one in the Ad-mag
for not much...

It's basically the same as the bike in the photo (i.e cheap
racer) with a snazzy paint job. I was taken with the idea
of fishing it out of the Humber and doing it up, but since
I got the Fondriest I don't see myself riding it anymore,
so I'm going to give it away to a local bloke who sent me
this e-mail - it will mean more to him than me.

Simon M.

Trawling through you massive site, and I came across the
story of the Raleigh Banana that you restored, and found it
quite interesting as it was the exact same model bike I had
for 8 years before I ran into the side of someone's car and
bending the forks back. After a few months of it being stuck
in the shed, I had to come to terms with the fact that the
forks were irrepairable and the frame was creased from the
force of the impact.

Shedding a tear, the bike went into a skip. :o(

After reading your page, it made me think about whether it
ended up on a landfill somewhere, or if someone fished it
out, and made it rideable.

I know the chances are as remote as you can get, but I have
to know if it was the same bike. My bike had splatters of a
pinky-orange paint under the frame after riding through a
spillage. Shortly afterwards, my bke was stolen, but I saw
someone on it, and told the police who went to get it back.
Even though they'd tried to spray over the paint splashes,
there was enough to identify it as mine, and I got my bike
back. <yay>

Could you confirm if there were any traces of paint
splattered under the frame? and if so, (and I don't mean to
appear freaky in any way) would you be interested in
selling it?

Quoted message said:

Perhaps, I don't know any roadies, but given the way
Halfords etc.

slavishly

Quoted message said:

copy the looks of decent bikes, it's not always obvious at
a glance if a bike's any good or not, particularly if you
don't know mountain bikes.

The Carrerra frames ar emade by one of the large far eastern
frame makers who also make frames for other high profile
brands so it's hardly surprising there's some similarities.

Quoted message said:

There's also the fact that most serious mountain bikes
won't spend much

time

Quoted message said:

on the road, except for riding to / from the woods or
wherever.

A sweeping generalisation if eer there was one :-)

Vic. said:

I do hope they know you're there!

Oh yes, the expression when they look around to see how far
they've left me behind, rapidly changing to "but *how*?"
says they know very well I'm there ;-)

Quoted message said:

- One piece of *real* cycling ettiquette is that you
don't draft without the permission of the geezer in
front.

Though with the way they labour past me honking along in a
silly gear with "must pass that silly small wheel bike, I'm
on a Real Bike!" written all over them, they're just
inviting etiquette breaches, really. Anyone that knows what
they're at is miles past me so I don't even get the choice.

Quoted message said:

At speed a seperation of less than a wheel's diameter
doesn't give a lot of reaction time.

Though don't forget we're not actually talking very fast
here (though drafting can be significant along Perth Road or
Riverside, it's often quite windy). For a start neither
party really has the power for Serious Speed, and in my case
I'm on a Brompton L3 with reduced gearing. Even when
drafting that is *not* a fast bike.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I latched on to his tail and managed to keep up for a
couple of miles. Then I thought it would be only polite to
take my turn at the

front,

Quoted message said:

so I passed him, with a nod and an 'all right' as I did.
Of course, he

took

Quoted message said:

this as a challenge and immediately set about trying to
burn me off.

Ah, well, the "passee" would normally move to the RHS to
allow the "passer(s)" to undertake. The fact you overtook on
his RHS would indeed be tantamount to throwing down the
gauntlet. Maybe you should have said something like "My turn
on the front now".

My own approach when either caught by or having caught
up with someone who seems of similar ability is to ride
alongside and engage in polite conversation. Depending
on how well this goes, and it usually goes well, we can
then decide whether to engage in a bit of drafting or
carry on chatting.

Quite frankly if I passed someone who then quietly sat on my
back wheel before overtaking me later I'd take it as a
challenge. But then again I would already have broken the
ice by initiating (if they didn't) the conversation so the
situation probably wouldn't arise unless they were a
miserable git, in which case I'd take great offence if they
sat on my back wheel after ignoring me and would either try
to burn them off, say something, or use bike handling skills
to make them realise I don't appreciate their closeness.

Drafting on a bike without consent is pretty much the same
as tailgating with motor vehicles.
--
Regards, Pete

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:04:24 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

This is true, but IMHO a rather unfortunate piece of
snobbery from some, as there's nothing wrong with being a
"bloke on bike".

I wave to everyone on pedal-powered machines, but as a
recumbent rider I am an irredeemable fred anyway ;-)

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

Spencer Bullen posted ...

Quoted message said:

Since I'm in the same clothing, most of which is MTB stuff
(peaked helmet and baggy MTB tops to contain my large
gut!) I can only assume that drop bars are the cycling
equivalent of a Masonic hand shake. I'll wait to see if
this continues in summer when I switch from my bib knicks
to cycling baggies.

I don't think it matters what you ride.

I ride Mountain bikes only, but wave or nod at any rider
I notice. In most cases those who don't wave or
acknowledge back are simply those who don't see you, or
can't be bothered. I don't think it matters what you or
they ride ... 😉

--
Paul

(8(|) Homer rocks .. 😉

Quoted message said:

Maybe you should have said something like "My turn on the
front now".

Yes, I kind of realised that afterwards - I should have
handled the situation differently, but then he didn't even
acknowledge me when he first passed me so I assumed he had
already decided that I wasn't a 'proper' cyclist and wasn't
really interested. Even so, I guess I probably should have
tried to ask if he minded me taking his draft.

Quoted message said:

Quite frankly if I passed someone who then quietly sat on
my back wheel before overtaking me later I'd take it as a
challenge.

It wasn't meant to be but I understand why he was [censored]. To be honest, I was pushing pretty hard just to
keep up, even with the draft, so conversation wasn't
really an option.

A few days ago when I was out, a chap in club colours
heading in the other direction made an effort to wave and
say hello even though there were cars passing between us. I
really appreciated the gesture.

Quoted message said:

or use bike handling skills to make them realise I don't
appreciate their closeness.

Oh yes, I got the message all right - the way he took
those corners was not his way of saying he liked having me
behind him.

I'm learning... and I'm just off out to 'learn' some more...

d.

"Vic." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:04:24 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote:

- One piece of *real* cycling ettiquette is that you
don't draft without the permission of the geezer in
front.

Well I suppose there's drafting and drafting. Around town
with lots of bikes on the road, I don't think you can really
complain about it. On the open road if there were only two
of you it would be quite noticeable having someone
deliberately sitting behind your rear wheel, and a lot more
irritating - at least that's the way I'd feel about it.
Around town I couldn't really care less. Well, I suppose it
is a bit annoying to find yourself not as clear of a slower
cyclist as you thought you would be, but that's also just
part of the cut and thrust of city cycling. Anyway if
they're in 'challenge' mode they're just as likely to catch
up at lights, or through willingness to make more risky
moves through traffic, so it just has to be accepted. I ride
at my own pace, draft similarly-paced cyclists and accept it
when I get drafted without qualms or conscience.

Rich

"Richard Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well I suppose there's drafting and drafting. Around town
with lots of bikes on the road, I don't think you can
really complain about it. On the open road if there were
only two of you it would be quite noticeable

having

Quoted message said:

someone deliberately sitting behind your rear wheel, and a
lot more irritating - at least that's the way I'd feel
about it. Around town I couldn't really care less.

If someone drafts me I

a) take it as a compliment that someone thinks I'm worth
sitting behind and

b) I'm burning more calories in front, so I'm doing myself
more good there anyway.

Simon M.

Spencer Bullen said:

Greetings,

after far too long commuting on a slicked up MTB whilst my
knees recovered from surgery, I'm back to riding my Dawes
Audax, racking up about 150 miles a week at the moment.
After the initial ar*e, back and wrist battering that
comes with switching from 1.5 inch tyres with front
suspension to riding on 26mm with a flat back, I'm now
enjoying better times, easier speed, and less road dirt
thanks to full length SKS guards.

The biggest change, however, that I've noticed is the
change in attitude from people on road bikes. Whereas
before I could at most expect to be ignored on an MTB,
I've now been readmitted to a club reserved for those with
drop handlebars. Stops at lights now have chats and kit
comparisons, and even passing in opposite directions at
least a nod or a wave is the norm.

How many times do we read on here that MTBeers take pleasure
in burning off road bike riders ? Never the other way
though. Today no MTBeers acknowledged my gestures wheras all
road bike riders did. Makes me wonder why I bother nodding
at MTBeers.

Ride with panniers in the middle of nowhere and its likely
that motorcyclists will acknowledge you. Happened to me
yesterday.