CCN presentation

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:53:55 +0100, in
<[email hidden]>, "Just zis Guy, you

know? said:

[Warning: contains helmets]

I'm doing a bijou presentation-ette for the Cycle Campaign
Network in Brum tomorrow, here it is if anyone is
intersted:

If in Bham City Centre, and finishing before 1300, do you
fancy meeting for a pint?

--
Isn't it annoying when cyclingforums.com publish messages
that they haven't been granted permission to archive. In my
opinion it is as bad as software piracy.

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:55:59 +0100, Richard Bates
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

If in Bham City Centre, and finishing before 1300, do you
fancy meeting for a pint?

It will at the Priory Rooms, Bull Street. Meeting starts at
12:00 and I'll be around for a while beforehand, going to an
Injun afterwards. Not sure of the options for meeting up,
why not give me a call on 07718 031177 tomorrow? I should be
in Brum from 10:30ish (Mr Branson's earlier train being a
bit cheaper).

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

Just zis Guy said:

[Warning: contains helmets]

I'm doing a bijou presentation-ette for the Cycle Campaign
Network in Brum tomorrow, here it is if anyone is
intersted:

<url:http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/child-cycling.pdf>

Excellent presentation, Guy. A couple of the graphs could be
a touch wider on the page.

I don't know if it's the same one you are referring to, but
the Telegraph editorial is at :

telegraph.co.ukmain.jhtmlOpen ↗
ation%2F2004%2F03%2F13%2Ftefbus10.xml

Pete

you know? said:

I'm doing a bijou presentation-ette for the Cycle Campaign
Network in Brum tomorrow, here it is if anyone is
intersted:

<url:http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/child-cycling.pdf>

Hi Guy

D'you have an HTML version of child-cycling.pdf? I ask as a
good friend of mine who's a bit of a helmeteer has two
kidlets, the older of whom cycles quite regularly.

He's also quite new to PCs. He has a internet connection
from work (not sure about his home) but I don't know whether
or not he has access to Acrobat Reader.

James

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote in news:c5or60pcl5mpmfor692s50aa67930l8off@
4ax.com:

Quoted message said:

[Warning: contains helmets]

I'm doing a bijou presentation-ette for the Cycle Campaign
Network in Brum tomorrow, here it is if anyone is
intersted:

<url:http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/child-cycling.pdf>

B'ah, where're your citations?!?!?

Good luck with it all. Let us know how it went.

On 3 Apr 2004 02:06:49 GMT, Mark Thompson
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

B'ah, where're your citations?!?!?

To follow. The pages with full references are currently
password protected but will be moved to the public site in a
day or two.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

"James Hodson" wrote

Quoted message said:

Hi Guy

D'you have an HTML version of child-cycling.pdf? I ask as
a good friend of mine who's a bit of a helmeteer has two
kidlets, the older of whom cycles quite regularly.

He's also quite new to PCs. He has a internet connection
from work (not sure about his home) but I don't know
whether or not he has access to Acrobat Reader.

James

I'd like to second the request. My version of Acrobat (5.0)
interprets your presentation as a series of jet black blank
pages, which is probably an injustice to your work.
--
mark

Quoted message said:

Can anybody explain to me why anyone ever uses Acrobat, or
why anyone thought it might have been a good idea in the
first place? It's the world's most incompetent, inflexible
and unusable data format.

I think that's the idea - it makes it very hard for people
to tamper with your work. If you use the right distiller
software it also makes documents considerably smaller
(useful if, eg, you are sending Quark Xpress documents to a
client for proofreading/approval).

d.

Quoted message said:

Can anybody explain to me why anyone ever uses Acrobat, or
why anyone thought it might have been a good idea in the
first place? It's the world's most incompetent, inflexible
and unusable data format.

It's good for proofing electronically (cheaper and
faster than sending hard copy) as it preserves your
layout as intended.

It should never have made its way on to the web,
though. It's not useable in the way people want to use
the web. Sadly it looks like many companies are relying
on it too much -- they're just regurgitating files from
their marketing bumph instead of getting someone to do
it properly.

I came across a website at work the other day where the
homepage consisted of an HTML 'splash' page which when
clicked opened a single PDF containing the company brochure.
That was it! Oh dear, oh dear.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:05:02 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, davek

(') said:

Quoted message said:

Can anybody explain to me why anyone ever uses Acrobat,
or why anyone thought it might have been a good idea in
the first place? It's the world's most incompetent,
inflexible and unusable data format.

I think that's the idea - it makes it very hard for
people to tamper with your work. If you use the right
distiller software it also makes documents considerably
smaller (useful if, eg, you are sending Quark Xpress
documents to a client for proofreading/approval).

IE, only about ten times the size of the same document in
HTML, for example.

You can't accurately duplicate any paper document in HTML.
You can in Acrobat.
--
"We take these risks, not to escape from life, but to
prevent life escaping from us." bensales.combensales.comOpen ↗

On 3/4/04 3:54 pm, in article [email hidden],

BenS said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, davek

(') said:

> Can anybody explain to me why anyone ever uses Acrobat,
> or why anyone thought it might have been a good idea in
> the first place? It's the world's most incompetent,
> inflexible and unusable data format.

I think that's the idea - it makes it very hard for
people to tamper with your work. If you use the right
distiller software it also makes documents considerably
smaller (useful if, eg, you are sending Quark Xpress
documents to a client for proofreading/approval).

IE, only about ten times the size of the same document in
HTML, for example.

You can't accurately duplicate any paper document in HTML.
You can in Acrobat.

That is because HTML is a content markup language, not a
display language. If you want accurately relayed documents
laid out exactly how you wish (with the appropriate
transparency and layering) then HTML doesn't even come
close. HTML is a poor reinvention of markup languages and is
a nasty thing. It does neither markup nor display well. It
was however free so got picked up and used.

PDF is cross platform and open (though not free in the
GNU sense) and is an excellent way to transfer
document impressions (ie a combination of content and
physical layout).

The question PDF answers (and HTML doesn't) is 'What will my
document look like when YOU have printed it?'

..d

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[Warning: contains helmets]

I'm doing a bijou presentation-ette for the Cycle Campaign
Network in Brum tomorrow, here it is if anyone is
intersted:

<url:http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/child-cycling.pdf>

Excellent presentation, Guy. I hope it went well although I
think you might have been preaching to the choir there.

--
Dave...

In "]news:[email hidden],
Just zis Guy, you know? <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:55:59 +0100, Richard Bates
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

If in Bham City Centre, and finishing before 1300, do you
fancy meeting for a pint?

It will at the Priory Rooms, Bull Street. Meeting starts
at 12:00 and I'll be around for a while beforehand, going
to an Injun afterwards. Not sure of the options for
meeting up, why not give me a call on 07718 031177
tomorrow? I should be in Brum from 10:30ish (Mr Branson's
earlier train being a bit cheaper).

Doh! Read this too late to get in touch. Would have been
nice to meet you.

A

Simon Brooke wrote: <snip>

Quoted message said:

Can anybody explain to me why anyone ever uses Acrobat, or
why anyone thought it might have been a good idea in the
first place? It's the world's most incompetent, inflexible
and unusable data format.

I can't say I agree.

pdf format is pretty similar to compressed postscript. The
big advantages of pdf (and postscript) are that it's a
format which can accurately represent any document
electronically and formatted for printing on all platforms.
True WYSIWYG.

The Adobe tools for generating the documents are first rate,
hence their widespread use for professional publishing etc.

A number of office packages can also write directly to pdf
as well, so for producing accurate documents for wide
distribution, where you don't know what platform people are
using, it's ideal.

The pdf spec is publically documented, viewers are available
on pretty much every platform for free, you can write your
own from the spec if you want.

So, it's ideal for distributing documents on the internet.

Pete

Quoted message said:

So, it's ideal for distributing documents on the internet.

Except it's almost completely useless for voice readers. In
my book, that makes it highly undesirable. My son is blind,
and he benefits highly from well-designed markup.

Simonb said:

Quoted message said:

So, it's ideal for distributing documents on the internet.

Except it's almost completely useless for voice readers.
In my book, that makes it highly undesirable. My son is
blind, and he benefits highly from well-designed markup.

If voice reader software doesn't support one of the common
document exchange formats in the world, is that the fault of
the format, or the voice reader? It really isn't that
difficult to extract information from a pdf file as the
format is so well documented.

I spot a market opportunity 🙂

Pete

Quoted message said:

It really isn't that difficult to extract information from
a pdf file as the format is so well documented.

But then the question arises: should it have to? Plain text
and well-constructed HTML have served us well -- so why
should we have to change to accommodate a format which is
designed for visual consumption?

in message <[email hidden]>, BenS

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, davek

(') said:

> Can anybody explain to me why anyone ever uses Acrobat,
> or why anyone thought it might have been a good idea in
> the first place? It's the world's most incompetent,
> inflexible and unusable data format.

I think that's the idea - it makes it very hard for
people to tamper with your work. If you use the right
distiller software it also makes documents considerably
smaller (useful if, eg, you are sending Quark Xpress
documents to a client for proofreading/approval).

IE, only about ten times the size of the same document in
HTML, for example.

You can't accurately duplicate any paper document in HTML.
You can in Acrobat.

Why would you want to?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗ /-\ You have discovered a
security flaw in a Microsoft product. You
|-| can report this issue to our security tesm. Would
|you like to
| | * Be completely ignored (default)?
| | * Receive a form email full of platitudes about how
| | much we care?
\_/ * Spend hours helping us fix this problem for free?

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 20:05:03 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

BenS (') said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, davek
([email hidden]'😉 wrote:

>> Can anybody explain to me why anyone ever uses
>> Acrobat, or why anyone thought it might have been a
>> good idea in the first place? It's the world's most
>> incompetent, inflexible and unusable data format.
>
> I think that's the idea - it makes it very hard for
> people to tamper with your work. If you use the right
> distiller software it also makes documents considerably
> smaller (useful if, eg, you are sending Quark Xpress
> documents to a client for proofreading/approval).

IE, only about ten times the size of the same document in
HTML, for example.

You can't accurately duplicate any paper document in
HTML. You can in Acrobat.

Why would you want to?

Because I may want to transfer a document electronically and
have it printed at the other end with no loss of precision
or change.

For example, the DVLA forms for various things to do with
vehicles. They are a standard form that could never be
reproduced in HTML, yet the DVLA wish to make them available
for people to download and print. They choose to use PDF
because they know that the person will get exactly the same
form as if the DVLA had printed it on paper themselves.
--
"We take these risks, not to escape from life, but to
prevent life escaping from us." bensales.combensales.comOpen ↗