rec.sport.unicycling archive · Public discussion

Alethes Uni Frames

Semper_uni · 2004-04-02T11:55:28+00:00

Update: Thus far Ryan and Jeff have yet to destroy the frames that they were testing for me. Ryan's frame suffered a minor dent after missing a pretty huge drop and hitting a square edge of something. The production frames will vary from the prototypes slightly, having a bit thicker sheet metal in the legs (to prevent denting form extreme circumstances) and a bit thinner walled seat tube (still 27.2 ID). These changes will add weight in the legs, but lower it in the seat tube. I think the differences should even each other out, so the frame should still be around one and a quarter pounds. I am in the proccess of producing the 24 and 20 inch frames and will very soon be making a 36 inch frame to fit a coker tire and a wider coker hub. After discussing margins and whatnot with John at uni.com, I have decided that it would be in my (and the consumers) best interest to sell these frames direct. I have settled on a price of $250 US for the trials frame and $275 US for the 24 inch frame with flush brake bosses. this is for a standard frame with black powdercoat. Some options may raise or lower tha price slightly, but those will be the base prices. I should have pictures up very soon of the frame and of my built up trials uni. Also, I have a close friend working long nights developing a website for me to showcase the products and offer more detailed info and pictures. My new AIM screen name is AlethesCycling, feel free to IM me with any questions or comments. -- SEMPER_UNI - trialsin Michael S. Pritchett, Esq. Alpha Cycling Innovations, Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SEMPER_UNI's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/2354 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/29901

Started by Semper_uni · 2 April 2004 · Last activity 2 April 2004 · 19 posts · 1,257 views

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01 / Original postAlethes Uni FramesSemper_uni · 2 Apr 2004 02 / This pagePosts 1–19Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #19U-Turn · 2 Apr 2004

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Original section: rec.sport.unicycling archive
Published: 2 April 2004
Last activity: 2 April 2004
Original author: Semper_uni
Posts: 19
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 1,257
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Drivetrain compatibility Frame sizing Cranksets Steel frames Taper and peaking Wheel building Wheel truing

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Original post
Semper_uni
Archived post

2 April 2004, 11:55 UTC #1

Update:
Thus far Ryan and Jeff have yet to destroy the frames that
they were testing for me. Ryan's frame suffered a minor dent
after missing a pretty huge drop and hitting a square edge
of something.
The production frames will vary from the prototypes
slightly, having a bit thicker sheet metal in the legs (to
prevent denting form extreme circumstances) and a bit
thinner walled seat tube (still 27.2 ID). These changes will
add weight in the legs, but lower it in the seat tube. I
think the differences should even each other out, so the
frame should still be around one and a quarter pounds.
I am in the proccess of producing the 24 and 20 inch frames
and will very soon be making a 36 inch frame to fit a coker
tire and a wider coker hub.
After discussing margins and whatnot with John at uni.com, I
have decided that it would be in my (and the consumers) best
interest to sell these frames direct.
I have settled on a price of $250 US for the trials frame
and $275 US for the 24 inch frame with flush brake bosses.
this is for a standard frame with black powdercoat. Some
options may raise or lower tha price slightly, but those
will be the base prices.
I should have pictures up very soon of the frame and of my
built up trials uni.
Also, I have a close friend working long nights developing a
website for me to showcase the products and offer more
detailed info and pictures.
My new AIM screen name is AlethesCycling, feel free to IM me
with any questions or comments.
--
SEMPER_UNI - trialsin
Michael S. Pritchett, Esq.
Alpha Cycling Innovations, Inc.
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John_childs
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2 April 2004, 11:55 UTC #2

SEMPER_UNI said:
*I am in the proccess of producing the 24 and 20 inch
frames and will very soon be making a 36 inch frame to fit
a coker tire and a wider coker hub. *
Oh nice! I like the idea of the Coker frame to fit the wide
hub. Fantastic.
--
john_childs - Guinness Mojo
john_childs (at) hotmail (dot) com
Gallery: '' (unicyclist.comjohn childs)
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Gerblefranklin
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2 April 2004, 11:56 UTC #3

Curious, did you ever get my e-mail?
--
gerblefranklin
I don't break equipment, I make it cheaper.
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U-Turn
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2 April 2004, 11:57 UTC #4

SEMPER_UNI said:
*and will very soon be making a 36 inch frame to fit a
coker tire and a wider coker hub. *

Cool. (thanks for highlighting this, John!)
I have specs to give you for the wider hub so that the wide
hub frame makers can be consistent. This benefits the
consumer, the wheel and hub makers, and the frame makers.
--
U-Turn - There has got to be a better way...
Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(unicyclist.comalbup39)
'Unatics Website' (newyorkunicycle.comnewyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
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Semper_uni
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2 April 2004, 11:57 UTC #5

GerbilFranklin, No, I don't think i've recieved any email
from you other than that pm a while back. give it another
shot, the email in my sig line is correct.
Uturn, If you could email me those specs, that would be
fantastic. I was just planning on buying a few of the common
hubs and trying to hook up a design that could accomodate
them all using spacers. I'm all about consistency and
standards within an industry, it just makes everything
easier on everyone.
--
SEMPER_UNI - trialsin
Michael S. Pritchett
Alethes Cycling
[email hidden]
AlethesCycling AIM screen name
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Klaas Bil
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2 April 2004, 11:57 UTC #6

SEMPER_UNI said:
the email in my sig line is correct.
Quoted message said:
Michael S. Pritchett [email hidden]
I notice that you misspell your name in your email address.
gerblefranklin may have missed that.
Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
I have a feeling you might need two points of contact with
the ground for such a thing to work? Or at least training
wheels on the front and rear. - John Foss commenting on a
picture of a one-wheeled vehicle he saw on RSU.

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Gerblefranklin
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #7

SEMPER_UNI said:
*GerbilFranklin, No, I don't think i've recieved any email
from you other than that pm a while back. give it another
shot, the email in my sig line is correct. *
I resent the e-mail as a PM and in e-mail. Hope you get at
least one of them.
--
gerblefranklin
I don't break equipment, I make it cheaper.
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U-Turn
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #8

SEMPER_UNI said:
*Uturn, If you could email me those specs, that would be
fantastic. I was just planning on buying a few of the
common hubs and trying to hook up a design that could
accomodate them all using spacers. I'm all about
consistency and standards within an industry, it just
makes everything easier on everyone. *

Great attitude! I've sent you the information via email.
--
U-Turn - There has got to be a better way...
Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(unicyclist.comalbup39)
'Unatics Website' (newyorkunicycle.comnewyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
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Merrill
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #9

Hey Michael,
Any word yet on the weight of the 24" frame and how it will
compare in weight to the Wilder? I'm still curious how a
steel frame could be close to the same weight as an
aluminum one.
Also any idea when the frame will be tested and by whom?
Thanks,
Joe
--
merrill - Confinement Loaf
Smart Bomb + Dumb President = Weapon of Mass Destruction
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Semper_uni
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #10

Steel? who said anything about steel? All aluminum over
here, unless your'e talking about the old thread comparing
the kh frame with the wilder...
As of now I don't have an exact to-the-ounce figure, the
design will be changing ever so slightly as noted above...
The cad model for the new design says 1 pound 4.6 ounces,
but it was about a half on ounce low on the last version. so
probably around a pound and five ounces.
Uturn i got you email, thank you. Is that a standard 99-r12
bearing you noted, 12mm by 40mm... the axels on those aren't
as big in diameter as the profile axles are they?
Bevan, go the email. i'll reply right after i post this...
--
SEMPER_UNI - Alethes Cycling
Michael S. Pritchett
Alethes Cycling
[email hidden]
AlethesCycling AIM screen name
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Merrill
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #11

SEMPER_UNI said:
*Steel? who said anything about steel? All aluminum
over here,*
Oh, Ok. Sorry bout that. Will this frame fit the Muniac hub?
muniac.comdlf 86.htm
--
merrill - Confinement Loaf
Smart Bomb + Dumb President = Weapon of Mass Destruction
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Frank A .
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #12

merrill said:
*
Oh, Ok. Sorry bout that. Will this frame fit the
Muniac hub?
muniac.comdlf 86.htm *
merril, As you probably know, Scott designed the Drastic hub
to fit the Wilder frame and the Wilder spacing is wider than
any of the current production uni's out there. I've got a
Muniac hub here waiting for a frame. The Wilder didn't
appeal to me for a few reasons so I'm having Rick Hunter
build me a frame with a spacing wide enough to accomodate
the bearing spacing
(4.25"😉 of the Muniac hub. I should have it very soon. As
far as standard and consistent sizing among builders,
it's a great idea and the Muniac (Scott) has talked about
the importance of this but it seems he believed the
standard should be his size. If for some reason the
Muniac hub doesn't work out for me, it's not a problem as
my Profile hub will fit by adjusting the washers. So for
me this is good. But, if Semper builds his frame to this
standard, it seems the hub selection will be limited to
the Profile and Muniac only.
- Frank
--
Frank A. - off-road
"Man's maturity: to have regained the seriousness that he had as a child
at play." - FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, Beyond Good and Evil
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U-Turn
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #13

Frank A. said:
*
merril, As you probably know, Scott designed the Drastic
hub to fit the Wilder frame and the Wilder spacing is
wider than any of the current production uni's out there.
I've got a Muniac hub here waiting for a frame. The Wilder
didn't appeal to me for a few reasons so I'm having Rick
Hunter build me a frame with a spacing wide enough to
accomodate the bearing spacing
(4.25"😉 of the Muniac hub. I should have it very soon. As
far as standard and consistent sizing among builders,
it's a great idea and the Muniac (Scott) has talked
about the importance of this but it seems he believed
the standard should be his size. If for some reason the
Muniac hub doesn't work out for me, it's not a problem
as my Profile hub will fit by adjusting the washers. So
for me this is good. But, if Semper builds his frame to
this standard, it seems the hub selection will be
limited to the Profile and Muniac only.
- Frank *

I was going to build a wheel with the Muniac hub and
have somebody jump on it and try to break it, but this
is what I found:
1. You have to use square taper cranks. This is not bad,
except that Kooka went out of business and I haven't yet
found any replacements.
2. If you find some good cranks, you have to have them
machined by Muniac at extra charge of $50 (except for the
first set).
3. The cranks have to be mounted before you build the wheel,
because you have to use a 20-ton press and the wheel
won't fit into the press.
4. You can't use an industry-standard wheel truing stand
because the cranks are already on the wheel.
5. Everytime you need to a) change the cranks, or b) replace
the cranks, you have to tear down the wheel because of
the need to use the press, then rebuild it after
replacing the cranks.
6. If you want to replace the cranks, you also have to have
the new ones machined by muniac.
I never even got to frame compatibility.
--
U-Turn - There has got to be a better way...
Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(unicyclist.comalbup39)
'Unatics Website' (newyorkunicycle.comnewyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
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Joemarshall
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #14

I thought that muniac hub was a particularly dumb idea,
basically the idea was that instead of making a hub that
fits one of the standards that already exist, make a hub for
which no cranks are available at all. That's even worse than
the splined hubs with only two crank lengths available.
It seems particularly silly now, when splined cranksets are
that bit lighter with the new onza one and there's the
square taper hub with internal threading available for less
agressive riders.
And now there's all this stuff about needing heavy machinery
to fit cranks on, how stupid is that.
Joe
--
joemarshall - dumb blonde
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Frank A .
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #15

U-turn,
Yeah, there are alot of exclusive issues with the Muniac
hub but after the axle in one of my Profiles loosened up, I
wanted to at least try an alternative. I'm still pretty
much a Profile guy, (they fixed it no charge) but I had a
set of Kookas and the set up was free so I figured I'd give
it a try. I build the wheels myself and I'll finish truing
it up in the frame. I won't be able to give a report until
I get the frame. I was going to order a 24" Hunter anyway
as my Hunter's are 26" and 36". As I mentioned, it won't
hurt either way 'cause the Profile will still work. It's
too bad there are so many conditions to buy into with the
Muniac hub because it would probably be a good alternative
choice. As it is, all things considered, I think most folks
will do just what you did and choose something without so
many limitations. Scott has narrowed the potential list of
riders opting for the Drastic Light Foot hub. I just wanted
to try it.
- Frank
--
Frank A. - off-road
"Man's maturity: to have regained the seriousness that he had as a child
at play." - FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, Beyond Good and Evil
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U-Turn
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #16

Frank A. said:
*I just wanted to try it.*

That's a good reason!
--
U-Turn - There has got to be a better way...
Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(unicyclist.comalbup39)
'Unatics Website' (newyorkunicycle.comnewyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
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Merrill
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #17

Ok, I follow all your statements about compatibility and
trying various things and it all makes sense, but...
My goal is to build as light and strong a 24" trials uni as
possible with available parts. The cost of currently
available parts is not a major factor - they are all custom
jobs made/sold in small quanitities and are all relatively
pricey. I have a nice Vortex which keeps ticking. I just
want to play around with a light/strong 24" urban trials uni
at some point.
The main question, as you guys have highlighted, will
obviously be how the hub/frame will work together. The
rest of the decisions are relatively easy (tire, rim,
seat etc...)
Here are my thoughts...
1. I want a light, strong, proven hub. The muniac hub is
.86 lbs and has been thoroughly tested. Is there
another hub that can compete with this? Again, all I
care about it weight, strength and reliability. I'm not
concerned with compatibility. I just want the end
result. And I too, "just want to try it." Last I
checked, Kookas could still be obtained. This may not
be true anymore, in which case I will need to find
other cranks.
Up to now my thought has been that the Profile has many good
qualities except it is LOUD and HEAVY (around 1.5 lbs i
think?). Scott's hub is silent and light.
Does anybody know the weights of other common hubs like
the KH and Onza? Are they in the .86 lb "ballpark?" Are
they reliable?
2. Light, strong, proven frame. If it turns out that
Michael's frame withstands rigourous testing over time,
then I would consider it, if it can take a strong/light
hub. If it cannot, then I will look toward the muniac
hub/frame combo. Don't forget that Ryan and Jeff have
only tested the 20" frame, if I understood correctly.
I'd be happy to test the 24" though 🙂
You see, if I can shave approximately 0.6 lb off the hub and
another chunk of weight off the frame, then my mission is
accomplished and I've got a damn light Muni. Choosing the
remaining parts will be relatively easy. Thoughts?
--
merrill - Confinement Loaf
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Frank A .
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #18

merrill said:
*The main question, as you guys have highlighted, will
obviously be how the hub/frame will work together. The
rest of the decisions are relatively easy (tire, rim,
seat etc...)
And I too, "just want to try it." Last I checked, Kookas
could still be obtained. This may not be true anymore, in
which case I will need to find other cranks.
Up to now my thought has been that the Profile has many
good qualities except it is LOUD and HEAVY (around 1.5 lbs
i think?). Scott's hub is silent and light.
Does anybody know the weights of other common hubs like
the KH and Onza? Are they in the .86 lb "ballpark?" Are
they reliable?
*
Merril, Only Michael will be able to tell you if he's
willing to build one (or more) frame(s) to accept the Muniac
hub. I beleive Michael's goals are much like yours, to build
a very light but strong frame. I have high hopes for the
Drastic hub but it seems you and I are in the minority here.
- Frank
--
Frank A. - off-road
"Man's maturity: to have regained the seriousness that he had as a child
at play." - FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, Beyond Good and Evil
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U-Turn
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2 April 2004, 12:35 UTC #19

Quoted message said:
*Thoughts?*

I respect your comments, Joe. Here are some thoughts, not
necessarily in any order.
Lightness is important, but after seeing the guys at NAUCC
clean picnic tables and stairs with my Coker I believe that
technique is 95% of the battle.
I can "easily" shave 10 lbs off my body and gain more
benefit. I know that's not true for you! 😄
If you have problems with the Kookas loosening up the way
the NZ guys do, you have to rebuild the wheel. This may not
happen with the machine press-on, though I doubt it.
Perhaps the Muniac hub will prove to be really great and
someone will start manufacturing cranks with the modified
taper, but otherwise the pool of available Kookas will run
out quickly. Perhaps uni.com has more than the 12 sets they
told me they had almost 2 years ago.
It just doesn't seem like an approach that has a future. I
know about all of Scott's complaints about the lack of
industry compatibility (now offline), and yet this solution
appears totally non-compatible, and also nearly
unmaintainable. A splined approach seems ridiculously
reasonable given the tremendous torque involved with trials.
It just makes sense.
Weight is only meaningful when you take the hub and cranks
as a unit. The Profile and KH sets seem to be able to take a
lot of force. However, it might be helpful if Muniac would
recommend a brand or two of cranks suitable for his hub, and
post it on the website, and perhaps a reliable website link
or two for where to buy them.
Don't forget that every set of Muniac-compatible cranks
after the first set has a $50 surcharge, plus postage two
ways, for machining, not to mention the wheel rebuild and
tear down costs.
I think Scott's efforts to lighten the hub and maintain
strength are really excellent. I wish I had the skills he
does. I think that building a splined hub with a
standardized spline pattern would have better served him and
his customers both, and he could still have made the weight
savings he did.
The top trials unicyclists nearly always do extreme vertical
things seat-in-front. To reduce weight in the frame should
be easy: minimize the saddle, get rid of one arm, drill
holes ala Steve Howard's frames, use plastic. There's plenty
of room for investment and risk there. This is not quite so
true for MUni, but it is still true.
--
U-Turn - There has got to be a better way...
Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(unicyclist.comalbup39)
'Unatics Website' (newyorkunicycle.comnewyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
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