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Most ludicrous nick.

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01 / Original postMost ludicrous nick.Simon Mason · 29 Mar 2004 02 / This pagePosts 1–20Page 1 of 2 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #23Ian Smith · 31 Mar 2004

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UK and Europe
Published
29 March 2004
Last activity
31 March 2004
Original author
Simon Mason
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23
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  1. Original post
    Simon Mason
    Archived post
    #1

    Having a pint the other night with my mate who is Chief of
    police in Hull, I told him I was just waiting for a copper
    to do me for having a flashing led on my bike rather than on
    my body or rucksack. He said that would never happen ,so I
    asked him what was the most obscure offence anyone had been
    done for. He said that on a pony and trap with tyres on ,
    you need a bell by law and somebody had actually been fined
    for not having one. However, if the cart has solid wheels
    with a metal strip, you don't need one as it makes enough
    noise itself!

    Simon

    Report
  2. Chris French
    Archived post
    #2

    In message
    <[email hidden]>, Simon
    Mason <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    so I asked him what was the most obscure offence anyone had
    been done for. He said that on a pony and trap with tyres
    on , you need a bell by law and somebody had actually been
    fined for not having one. However, if the cart has solid
    wheels with a metal strip, you don't need one as it makes
    enough noise itself!

    I reckon if a copper actually knows that that is an offence
    they should be able to at least use the knowledge once every
    10 years or so. :-)
    --
    Chris French, Leeds

    Report
  3. Helen Deborah V
    Archived post
    #3

    [email hidden] (Simon Mason)typed

    Quoted message said:

    Having a pint the other night with my mate who is Chief of
    police in Hull, I told him I was just waiting for a copper
    to do me for having a flashing led on my bike rather than
    on my body or rucksack. He said that would never happen
    ,so I asked him what was the most obscure offence anyone
    had been done for. He said that on a pony and trap with
    tyres on , you need a bell by law and somebody had
    actually been fined for not having one. However, if the
    cart has solid wheels with a metal strip, you don't need
    one as it makes enough noise itself!

    Quoted message said:

    Simon

    Yebbut the horses hooves don't have rubber tyres and must
    clatter quite a lot...

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden] Edgware.

    Report
  4. David Brown :O\
    Archived post
    #4

    Don't you need a bell, by law, on a bicycle if on a
    public highway?

    Report
  5. Colin Blackburn
    Archived post
    #5
    David Brown :o) said:

    Don't you need a bell, by law, on a bicycle if on a public
    highway?

    No. From the 1st of May most new bikes are required to be
    fitted with bells when sold but you can take the bell off as
    soon as the bike leaves the shop. Some bikes are exempt,
    tandems and delivery bicycles for instance.

    The law bit:

    legislation.hmso.gov.uk20031101.htm

    Colin
    --

    Report
  6. Anonymous
    Archived post
    #6

    "Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    David Brown :o) said:

    Don't you need a bell, by law, on a bicycle if on a
    public highway?

    No. From the 1st of May most new bikes are required to be
    fitted with bells when sold but you can take the bell off
    as soon as the bike leaves the shop. Some bikes are
    exempt, tandems and delivery bicycles for instance.

    The law bit:

    legislation.hmso.gov.uk20031101.htm

    I read that as not exempting tandems and delivery bikes
    from bells.

    cheers, clive

    Report
  7. Simonb
    Archived post
    #7

    "Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    David Brown :o) said:

    Don't you need a bell, by law, on a bicycle if on a
    public highway?

    No. From the 1st of May most new bikes are required to be
    fitted with bells when sold but you can take the bell off
    as soon as the bike leaves the shop. Some bikes are
    exempt, tandems and delivery bicycles for instance.

    Tandems and delivery bikes are not exempt from 4 (1)(b) --
    the bell provision -- they are exempt from the provisions of
    regulation 4(1)(a). It looks like kids' bikes, track bikes
    and custom race bikes.

    Report
  8. Simonb
    Archived post
    #8

    .. are exempt.

    Report
  9. Velvet
    Archived post
    #9
    Clive George said:

    "Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    David Brown :o) said:

    Don't you need a bell, by law, on a bicycle if on a
    public highway?

    No. From the 1st of May most new bikes are required to be
    fitted with bells when sold but you can take the bell off
    as soon as the bike leaves the shop. Some bikes are
    exempt, tandems and delivery bicycles for instance.

    The law bit:

    legislation.hmso.gov.uk20031101.htm

    I read that as not exempting tandems and delivery bikes
    from bells.

    cheers, clive


    I think you're both wrong.

    The exemption for tandems and delivery bikes is just one
    part of the spec, and is:

    "Exemptions to regulation 4
    6. - (1) The provisions of regulation ***4(1)(a)***
    do not apply in respect of -

    (a) a tradesman's delivery bicycle; or

    (b) a tandem bicycle."

    The regulation is:

    "Supply of new bicycles
    4. - (1) Save as provided in paragraph (2) and
    regulation 6, no person shall supply any
    bicycle unless -

    (a) in the case of -

    (b) a bicycle within the field of application of the British
    Standard, it complies with all the requirements
    specified in that standard (including marking
    requirements) other than that contained in clause 16
    (warning devices); or

    (c) a bicycle outside the field of application of the
    British Standard, it complies with standards no less
    than those specified in the British Standard other than
    those contained in clause 16 (warning devices) and
    clause 20(a) (marking);

    (d) it has been fitted with a bell which -

    (e) is of a category intended for use on bicycles; and

    (f) complies with the requirements of clause 6.3 of the ISO
    Standard in relation to bells of that category; and

    (g) its brakes have been correctly adjusted in accordance
    with the manufacturer's instructions."

    So, since it's just 4(1)(a), you'll notice that
    4(1)(b) still applies, etc, so they are NOT exempt
    from having a bell.

    Works in exactly the same way for regulation 5 - only one
    part of that reg is waived for tandems and delivery bikes,
    not the whole, and not the part with the bell etc.

    Velvet

    Report
  10. Colin Blackburn
    Archived post
    #10

    On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:42:35 +0100, Clive George

    Quoted message said:

    "Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    David Brown :o) said:

    Don't you need a bell, by law, on a bicycle if on a
    public highway?

    No. From the 1st of May most new bikes are required to be
    fitted with bells when sold but you can take the bell off
    as soon as the bike leaves the shop. Some bikes are
    exempt, tandems and delivery bicycles for instance.

    The law bit:

    legislation.hmso.gov.uk20031101.htm

    I read that as not exempting tandems and delivery bikes
    from bells.

    Yes, you're right. Too many subsections for my head to
    cope with.

    I notice that one exmption is bikes that are to be used
    abroad, but it is phrased as:

    "...where the person supplying the bicycle reasonably
    believes that it will not be used in the United Kingdom."

    I wonder what level of reasonable belief need be used?

    Colin
    --

    Report
  11. Velvet
    Archived post
    #11
    Velvet said:
    Clive George said:

    "Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:13:40 +0000 (UTC), David Brown
    :o) <[email hidden]> wrote:

    > Don't you need a bell, by law, on a bicycle if on a
    > public highway?

    No. From the 1st of May most new bikes are required to
    be fitted with bells when sold but you can take the bell
    off as soon as the bike leaves the shop. Some bikes are
    exempt, tandems and delivery bicycles for instance.

    The law bit:

    legislation.hmso.gov.uk200311
    01.htm

    I read that as not exempting tandems and delivery bikes
    from bells.

    cheers, clive


    I think you're both wrong.

    The exemption for tandems and delivery bikes is just one
    part of the spec, and is:

    "Exemptions to regulation 4
    6. - (1) The provisions of regulation ***4(1)(a)***
    do not apply in respect of -

    (a) a tradesman's delivery bicycle; or

    (b) a tandem bicycle."

    The regulation is:

    "Supply of new bicycles
    4. - (1) Save as provided in paragraph (2) and
    regulation 6, no person shall supply any bicycle
    unless -

    (a) in the case of -

    (i) a bicycle within the field of application of the
    British Standard, it complies with all the
    requirements specified in that standard (including
    marking requirements) other than that contained in
    clause 16 (warning devices); or

    (ii) a bicycle outside the field of application of the
    British Standard, it complies with standards no less
    than those specified in the British Standard other
    than those contained in clause 16 (warning devices)
    and clause 20(a) (marking);

    (b) it has been fitted with a bell which -

    (i) is of a category intended for use on bicycles; and

    (ii) complies with the requirements of clause 6.3 of the
    ISO Standard in relation to bells of that category;
    and

    (c) its brakes have been correctly adjusted in accordance
    with the manufacturer's instructions."

    So, since it's just 4(1)(a), you'll notice that
    4(1)(b) still applies, etc, so they are NOT exempt
    from having a bell.

    Works in exactly the same way for regulation 5 - only one
    part of that reg is waived for tandems and delivery bikes,
    not the whole, and not the part with the bell etc.

    Velvet


    Er, except clive's right :-) Doh!

    Velvet

    Report
  12. Colin Blackburn
    Archived post
    #12
    Velvet said:
    Clive George said:

    "Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    the shop. Some bikes are exempt, tandems and delivery
    bicycles for instance.

    The law bit:

    legislation.hmso.gov.uk200311
    01.htm


    I read that as not exempting tandems and delivery bikes
    from bells. cheers, clive


    I think you're both wrong.

    As we were saying the opposite thing that would be
    difficult.

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    So, since it's just 4(1)(a), you'll notice that
    4(1)(b) still applies, etc, so they are NOT exempt
    from having a bell.

    Which is what Clive said.

    Colin
    --

    Report
  13. \ Dave
    Archived post
    #13

    "Velvet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Clive George said:

    "Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote
    in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:13:40 +0000 (UTC), David Brown
    :o) <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >Don't you need a bell, by law, on a bicycle if on a
    >public highway?

    No. From the 1st of May most new bikes are required to
    be fitted with bells when sold but you can take the bell
    off as soon as the bike leaves the shop. Some bikes are
    exempt, tandems and delivery bicycles for instance.

    The law bit:

    legislation.hmso.gov.uk200311
    01.htm

    I read that as not exempting tandems and delivery bikes
    from bells.

    cheers, clive


    I think you're both wrong.

    The exemption for tandems and delivery bikes is just one
    part of the spec, and is:

    "Exemptions to regulation 4
    6. - (1) The provisions of regulation ***4(1)(a)***
    do not apply in respect of -

    (a) a tradesman's delivery bicycle; or

    (b) a tandem bicycle."

    The regulation is:

    "Supply of new bicycles
    4. - (1) Save as provided in paragraph (2) and
    regulation 6, no person shall supply any bicycle
    unless -

    (a) in the case of -

    (i) a bicycle within the field of application of the
    British Standard, it complies with all the
    requirements specified in that standard (including
    marking requirements) other than that contained in
    clause 16 (warning devices); or

    (ii) a bicycle outside the field of application of the
    British Standard, it complies with standards no less
    than those specified in the British Standard other
    than those contained in clause 16 (warning devices)
    and clause 20(a) (marking);

    (b) it has been fitted with a bell which -

    (i) is of a category intended for use on bicycles; and

    (ii) complies with the requirements of clause 6.3 of the
    ISO Standard in relation to bells of that category;
    and

    (c) its brakes have been correctly adjusted in accordance
    with the manufacturer's instructions."

    So, since it's just 4(1)(a), you'll notice that
    4(1)(b) still applies, etc, so they are NOT exempt
    from having a bell.

    Works in exactly the same way for regulation 5 - only one
    part of that reg is waived for tandems and delivery bikes,
    not the whole, and not the part with the bell etc.

    Velvet

    Thank god that's nice and clear then.... (and they wonder
    why people break the law!!D'oh!)

    Report
  14. Helen Deborah V
    Archived post
    #14

    "David Brown :o\)" <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:

    Don't you need a bell, by law, on a bicycle if on a public
    highway?

    You need 'An audible warning of approach'. I can holler
    louder than a poxy bell and don't have to take my hands off
    the bars/brakes to shout (or to say 'excuse me' nicely)

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden] Edgware.

    Report
  15. Tony Raven
    Archived post
    #15
    Colin Blackburn said:


    "...where the person supplying the bicycle reasonably
    believes that it will not be used in the United Kingdom."

    I think that covers all bikes then. Most bikes are not used
    in the United Kingdom. After a very brief spell they sit
    unused in the garage or garden shed or outside. So no bells
    needed then ;-)

    Tony

    Report
  16. Dave Larrington
    Archived post
    #16
    Simonb said:

    It looks like kids' bikes, track bikes and custom race
    bikes. .. are exempt.

    And most, though possibly not all, recumbents.

    --

    Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.uk
    ===========================================================

    Report
  17. David Brown :O\
    Archived post
    #17

    "Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote
    in message

    Quoted message said:

    You need 'An audible warning of approach'.

    Ah yes that's right. My rear brake is just fine then.

    --
    David Brown :o)
    kitemap.co.ukstack

    Report
  18. Cicero
    Archived post
    #18

    "Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Having a pint the other night with my mate who is Chief of
    police in Hull, I told him I was just waiting for a copper
    to do me for having a flashing led on my bike rather than
    on my body or rucksack. He said that would never happen
    ,so I asked him what was the most obscure offence anyone
    had been done for. He said that on a pony and trap with
    tyres on , you need a bell by law and somebody had
    actually been fined for not having one. However, if the
    cart has solid wheels with a metal strip, you don't need
    one as it makes enough noise itself!

    Simon

    ========================
    This bit could cause problems:

    Interpretation
    3. - (1) In these Regulations -

    "bicycle" means a two-wheeled vehicle that is propelled
    solely by the muscular energy of the person on that vehicle
    by means of pedals and has not been constructed or adapted
    for propulsion by mechanical power;

    Is a tricycle not a bicycle for the purposes of the law?

    Cic.

    Report
  19. Martinm
    Archived post
    #19

    "Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Simonb said:

    It looks like kids' bikes, track bikes and custom race
    bikes. .. are exempt.

    And most, though possibly not all, recumbents.

    In France bells are law on all new bikes IIRC

    Report
  20. Peter Connolly
    Archived post
    #20
    Cicero said:

    "bicycle" means a two-wheeled vehicle that is propelled
    solely by the muscular energy of the person on that
    vehicle by means of pedals and has not been constructed or
    adapted for propulsion by mechanical power;

    I'm sure my two wheeled vehicle is (occasionally) propelled
    by gravity, so surely it cannot be a bicycle as per this
    definition - because it is NOT propelled *solely* by
    muscular energy.

    Pete.

    Report

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