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Paris-Nice, Stage 2

Robert Chung · 2003-03-11T22:02:30+00:00

Frigo made the decisive attack up the Croix de Chaubouret (not particularly steep, but about 15km long) to shatter the peloton. Looked very strong and only Vinokourov (last year's winner) and Rebellin were able to respond. They picked up a couple of earlier escapees (Botcharov, Zarrabeitia, and Frigo's teammate Gustov) but basically Frigo dragged everyone up the hill. Axel Merckx (!) led a pursuing group at 30 seconds that was never able to close down on the gang of six. Vinokourov was forced to lead out the sprint, and Rebellin was able to come around and make a separation. I can't remember the last time I saw Rebellin win something. He takes over the yellow-and-white jersey by bonus seconds over Vinokourov. Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him was lying motionless on the ground. Ugh. Hamilton lost big time. Moncoutie lost even more. Frigo looked very impressive.

Started by Robert Chung · 11 March 2003 · Last activity 15 March 2003 · 57 posts · 2,370 views

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01 / Original postParis-Nice, Stage 2Robert Chung · 11 Mar 2003 02 / This pagePosts 1–20Page 1 of 3 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #57Tom Kunich · 15 Mar 2003

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Original section: Road Cycling
Published: 11 March 2003
Last activity: 15 March 2003
Original author: Robert Chung
Posts: 57
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 2,370
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Classics racing Concussion and head injury Punctures and flats

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Original post
Robert Chung
Archived post

11 March 2003, 22:02 UTC #1

Frigo made the decisive attack up the Croix de Chaubouret (not particularly steep, but about 15km
long) to shatter the peloton. Looked very strong and only Vinokourov (last year's winner) and
Rebellin were able to respond. They picked up a couple of earlier escapees (Botcharov, Zarrabeitia,
and Frigo's teammate Gustov) but basically Frigo dragged everyone up the hill. Axel Merckx (!) led a
pursuing group at 30 seconds that was never able to close down on the gang of six. Vinokourov was
forced to lead out the sprint, and Rebellin was able to come around and make a separation. I can't
remember the last time I saw Rebellin win something. He takes over the yellow-and-white jersey by
bonus seconds over Vinokourov.
Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him was lying motionless on the
ground. Ugh.
Hamilton lost big time. Moncoutie lost even more. Frigo looked very impressive.

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Ewoud Dronkert
Archived post

11 March 2003, 22:41 UTC #2

Robert Chung said:
Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him was =

lying
Quoted message said:
motionless on the ground. Ugh.
He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. (in Dutch: =
193.121.55.225tt.php)

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Mike Krueger
Archived post

11 March 2003, 22:41 UTC #3

<< >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him was lying motionless on the
ground. Ugh.
He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. >>
Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been so severe. I hope
he recovers.

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M
Archived post

11 March 2003, 23:01 UTC #4

"Mike Krueger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
<< >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him was lying motionless on the
ground. Ugh.
He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. >>
Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been

so
Quoted message said:
severe. I hope he recovers.
So why do so many pros ride without helmets??? Should wearing helmets be enforced?
Marcus

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Daniel Connelly
Archived post

11 March 2003, 23:42 UTC #5

One opinion: olntv.comB70022EA0709428DBB91BA6E7DA3E81C.htm
Summary : they should be required. That would eliminate the competitive disadvantage of
wearing them.
Dan
Mike Krueger said:
<< >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him was lying motionless on the
ground. Ugh.
He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. >>
Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been so severe. I hope he
recovers.

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Tom Schulenburg
Archived post

11 March 2003, 23:42 UTC #6

"M" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Mike Krueger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
<< >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him

was
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
lying motionless on the ground. Ugh.
He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. >>
Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been

so
Quoted message said:
severe. I hope he recovers.
So why do so many pros ride without helmets??? Should wearing helmets be enforced?
Marcus
As much as they should enforce wearing full body armor. The helmet wouldn't have helped much with
the broken ribs
-T

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Mike S.
Archived post

12 March 2003, 01:01 UTC #7

"M" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Mike Krueger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
<< >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him

was
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
lying motionless on the ground. Ugh.
He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. >>
Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been

so
Quoted message said:
severe. I hope he recovers.
So why do so many pros ride without helmets??? Should wearing helmets be enforced?
Marcus

Didn't they try to mandate and enforce helmet use back in the early 90s? I remember protests by the
riders about having to wear the "hot and heavy" helmets of the day.
As far as I'm concerned, if you are a professional that values his career, I'd wear a helmet.
Otherwise, you could end up like Kivilev... Just one stupid fall, and bang! there goes your career.
I feel naked without my helmet on. I especially don't trust other riders in the packs that I've been
riding in lately.
Do I think mandating helmet use is the way to go? Probably not. If you want to be an idiot and not
wear your helmet, great. Just don't come crying to me when you end up with a fractured skull!
Mike

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Marlene Blansha
Archived post

12 March 2003, 01:01 UTC #8

In article <[email hidden]>, "Tom Schulenburg"
Quoted message said:
"M" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Mike Krueger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
<< >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him

was
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
lying motionless on the ground. Ugh.
He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. >>
Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been

so
Quoted message said:
severe. I hope he recovers.
So why do so many pros ride without helmets??? Should wearing helmets be enforced?
Marcus
As much as they should enforce wearing full body armor. The helmet wouldn't have helped much with
the broken ribs
-T
I remember Piotr Wadecki had a similar injury last year at around this time, I think it happened
in Tirreno Adriatico. Smashed skull, coma the whole shmear. However, he recovered and ended up in
the Tour de Suisse with 2nd (or third? Can't remember exactly). So hopefully this will be the case
with kivilev!

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Nick Burns
Archived post

12 March 2003, 01:21 UTC #9

There are plenty of easier ways to get some time off.
"Marlene Blanshay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>, "Tom Schulenburg"
Quoted message said:
"M" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Mike Krueger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> << >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw

him
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
was
Quoted message said:
> lying motionless on the ground. Ugh.
>
> He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs.
Quoted message said:
>
> Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have

been
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
so
> severe. I hope he recovers.
So why do so many pros ride without helmets??? Should wearing helmets be enforced?
Marcus
As much as they should enforce wearing full body armor. The helmet

wouldn't
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
have helped much with the broken ribs
-T
I remember Piotr Wadecki had a similar injury last year at around this time, I think it happened
in Tirreno Adriatico. Smashed skull, coma the whole shmear. However, he recovered and ended up in
the Tour de Suisse with 2nd (or third? Can't remember exactly). So hopefully this will be the case
with kivilev!

Report
Carl Sundquist
Archived post

12 March 2003, 01:41 UTC #10

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message If you
Quoted message said:
want to be an idiot and not wear your helmet, great. Just don't come

crying
Quoted message said:
to me when you end up with a fractured skull!
What makes you think someone would want to?

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Boyd Speerschne
Archived post

12 March 2003, 03:00 UTC #11

[email hidden] (Mike Krueger) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:
<snip>
Quoted message said:
Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been so severe. I hope he
recovers.
You do know that this statement is going to start a holy war, right?
My prediction is the troll index goes through the roof.
- Boyd

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Daniel Connelly
Archived post

12 March 2003, 03:00 UTC #12

The problem with your logic is riders may well feel that it is a competitive disadvantage to wear a
helmet. There are cat 5's emptying their bank accounts to save a few hundred grams on their bikes,
often in excess of $2 per gram saved -- take off your helmet, and there's over 300 grams which
doesn't have to be supported on your head or carried up mountains. How can you criticize riders for
at times choosing to take this advantage, which is within the rules? Do you similarly think all
other voluntary risks are unacceptable? Should racers stop "tailgating"? That would save a lot of
injuries, as well.
No -- the highly competitive nature of cycling means riders are forced to seek out virtually any
legal advantage available to them. The solution is to eliminate the competitive advantage, and the
way to do that is to mandate use in competition. The same for everyone. Then folks can stop
worrying about it.
Dan
Mike S. said:
Do I think mandating helmet use is the way to go? Probably not. If you want to be an idiot and not
wear your helmet, great. Just don't come crying to me when you end up with a fractured skull!
Mike

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Psycholist
Archived post

12 March 2003, 04:01 UTC #13

Should wearing helmets be enforced?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

Marcus
As much as they should enforce wearing full body armor. The helmet

wouldn't
Quoted message said:
have helped much with the broken ribs

"Tom Schulenburg"
You're kidding, right? He wouldn't be in a coma from broken ribs. Apparently you've fallen on your
head a few times. Maybe you should wear a helmet.
Bob C.

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Tom Kunich
Archived post

12 March 2003, 05:20 UTC #14

Why not simply ban bicycle racing. That way he wouldn't have fallen off at all.
"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Should wearing helmets be enforced?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

Marcus
As much as they should enforce wearing full body armor. The helmet

wouldn't
Quoted message said:
have helped much with the broken ribs

"Tom Schulenburg"
You're kidding, right? He wouldn't be in a coma from broken ribs. Apparently you've fallen on your
head a few times. Maybe you should

wear a
Quoted message said:
helmet.
Bob C.

Report
Tom Kunich
Archived post

12 March 2003, 05:41 UTC #15

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Didn't they try to mandate and enforce helmet use back in the early

90s? I
Quoted message said:
remember protests by the riders about having to wear the "hot and

heavy"
Quoted message said:
helmets of the day.
Those helmets were just like the one's you buy today. Perhaps those were lighter. As I recall,
Specialized made a Sub-6 helmet in those days. Maybe you think that human bodies have changed. Yeah,
that's it. They aren't hot and heavy anymore because human's have turned cold blooded. Or at least
some of them who can't keep their noses out of other's business.
Quoted message said:
As far as I'm concerned, if you are a professional that values his

career,
Quoted message said:
I'd wear a helmet. Otherwise, you could end up like Kivilev...

Just one
Quoted message said:
stupid fall, and bang! there goes your career.
You're going to look like on stupid ass if Kivilev recovers and races again.
Quoted message said:
I feel naked without my helmet on. I especially don't trust other

riders in
Quoted message said:
the packs that I've been riding in lately.
I feel naked without a couple of .45s slung across my back to ward off the [censored] in SUV's.
Quoted message said:
Do I think mandating helmet use is the way to go?
Why go halfway. Why not mandate body armor, bullet proof face masks and holy tatoos that ward
off bad juju?

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Carinus Lemmer
Archived post

12 March 2003, 07:20 UTC #16

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Should wearing helmets be enforced?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

how many people injure their heads in auto-accidents? get them to wear helmets mayhap?

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Donald Munro
Archived post

12 March 2003, 10:15 UTC #17

Marlene Blanshay said:
I remember Piotr Wadecki had a similar injury last year at around this time, I think it happened
in Tirreno Adriatico. Smashed skull, coma the whole shmear. However, he recovered and ended up in
the Tour de Suisse with 2nd (or third? Can't remember exactly). So hopefully this will be the case
with kivilev!
Unfortunately this does not appear to be the case this time if I understand Ewoud's Dutch site
correctly he died earlier today (193.121.55.225tt.php)
KAZAK ANDREI KIVILEV IS OVERLEDEN De Kazakse wielrenner
Andrei Kivilev is woensdag in het ziekenhuis van het Franse Saint-Etienne gestorven. Dat heeft zijn
ploeg Cofidis bekendgemaakt.
Hij overleed aan de verwondingen die hij dinsdag opliep bij zijn val in de tweede rit van
Parijs-Nice.
Kivilev viel op zowat 40 km van de streep, samen met Marek Rutkiewicz en Volker Ordiowski. De Kazak
viel met zijn gezicht op de grond, verloor het bewustzijn en werd meteen naar het ziekenhuis
gevoerd. De ploegmaat van Nico Mattan droeg geen helm

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Jay Hill
Archived post

12 March 2003, 14:01 UTC #18

Robert Chung said:

Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him was lying motionless on the
ground. Ugh.
He's died, & they're neutralizing stage 3.
cyclingnews.comnews

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Sabernet News
Archived post

12 March 2003, 14:31 UTC #19

Tom Kunich <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
(stuff snipped)
Quoted message said:
You're going to look like on stupid ass if Kivilev recovers and races again.
Yeah. You really told him. You truly are an ass, Kunich.

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Tom Schulenburg
Archived post

12 March 2003, 16:01 UTC #20

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Should wearing helmets be enforced?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

Marcus
As much as they should enforce wearing full body armor. The helmet

wouldn't
Quoted message said:
have helped much with the broken ribs

"Tom Schulenburg"
You're kidding, right? He wouldn't be in a coma from broken ribs. Apparently you've fallen on your
head a few times. Maybe you should wear

a
Quoted message said:
helmet.
Bob C.
Never said anything about a coma. Punctured lungs, ruptured spleens, etc can be just as traumatic. I
wear a helmet, but that's my choice. From what I've read, his injuries were due to a "Face Plant".
I'm not sure a helmet would have helped. In most fatal cases (Like auto racing) it's the sudden
deceleration that causes major injury. They have yet to design a helmet that prevents that. My
opinion is that a helmet might prevent some head injuries, it won't prevent all injuries and it's
not guaranteed to save your life. You are welcome to your opinion.
-Tom

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