Carbon handlebars...

"jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As far as vibration dampening, which is the best carbon bar going (that is also hopefully
reliable...)?? Although I love the look of the Cinelli

RAM,

Quoted message said:

I think they are out as a choice due to the fact that you seem to have to mount the levers low on
the bar due to the pre-drilled routing...

Thanks!

I live in an area where all the roads are tar and gravel (chip and seal, if you prefer). I switched
to a set of Easton carbon bars (EC70? the ones with the oversize clamp area ... yellow in the tape
area). They made a substantial difference in comfort. I've been VERY happy with them.

Bob C.

"jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As far as vibration dampening, which is the best carbon bar going (that is also hopefully
reliable...)?? Although I love the look of the Cinelli

RAM,

Quoted message said:

I think they are out as a choice due to the fact that you seem to have to mount the levers low on
the bar due to the pre-drilled routing...

If you want more vibration dampening, have you tried wider tires like 700x25? Pumped up to 100-
110psi, I think you'll get alot more comfort than any of the carbon bars available. Of course, if
you just want carbon bars, then check out the new Ritcheys....

jr-<< As far as vibration dampening, which is the best carbon bar going (that is also hopefully
reliable...)?? >><BR><BR>

Don't expect any carbon hbar or seatpost to 'dampen vibration'. They weigh less and have high whiz-
bang quotient but aren't going to soften up any ride.

We sell a lot of Kestrel ones..like 'em.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

In article <[email hidden]>,

psycholist said:

They made a substantial difference in comfort.

according to Peter you're wrong

jr said:

As far as vibration dampening, which is the best carbon bar going (that is also hopefully
reliable...)?? Although I love the look of the Cinelli RAM, I think they are out as a choice due to
the fact that you seem to have to mount the levers low on the bar due to the pre-drilled routing...

Have you checked out the FSA K-Wing? Maybe it's just me but I think having a wide top section like
that looks really comfy.

--
Scott Johnson "There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than to have soft, chubby, fat-looking
children who go to watch their school play basketball every Saturday and regard that as their week's
exercise."
- John F. Kennedy, 1962

"Fake name goes here" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

psycholist said:

They made a substantial difference in comfort.

according to Peter you're wrong

I know. Peter came here and tried my bike before I put the carbon bars on, then tried it after ...
doing several 50-milers a week on the pounding rural tar and gravel roads I have to endure. He told
me the substantial improvement was all in my head. He said I'd be better off mounting 700 x 45 tires
and keeping them inflated to 40 psi.

Bob C.

psycholist said:

I know. Peter came here and tried my bike before I put the carbon bars on, then tried it after ...
doing several 50-milers a week on the pounding rural tar and gravel roads I have to endure. He told
me the substantial improvement was all in my head.

A substantial improvement in your head is still a substantial improvement. Whatever works for
you is fine.
--
Rick Onanian

jr' may have said:

As far as vibration dampening, which is the best carbon bar going (that is also hopefully
reliable...)?? Although I love the look of the Cinelli RAM, I think they are out as a choice due to
the fact that you seem to have to mount the levers low on the bar due to the pre-drilled routing...

Changing bars to get better vibration damping is like changing pipes to get rid of a smoker's cough.
If you want less vibration, swap to fatter tires at a lower pressure. Any vibration that gets past
the tires and gets to the bar clamp will also get past any handlebar worth using. (Some people swear
that a flexy carbon fork reduces vibration transmission. I don't know if I want to ride with a fork
that will flex enough to do that. Your mileage may vary.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

personally, i notice no difference in shock absorption of carbon bars, but they /do/ make winter
rides easier on the hands because they do not suck heat like aluminum.

regarding other posters' comments on carbon seat posts, they /definitely/ made a big difference to
my ride, but ymmv.

jr said:

As far as vibration dampening, which is the best carbon bar going (that is also hopefully
reliable...)?? Although I love the look of the Cinelli RAM, I think they are out as a choice due
to the fact that you seem to have to mount the levers low on the bar due to the pre-drilled
routing...

Thanks!

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

personally, i notice no difference in shock absorption of carbon bars, but they /do/ make winter
rides easier on the hands because they do not suck heat like aluminum.

Bar tape helps a lot.

"jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As far as vibration dampening, which is the best carbon bar going (that is also hopefully
reliable...)?? Although I love the look of the Cinelli

RAM,

Quoted message said:

I think they are out as a choice due to the fact that you seem to have to mount the levers low on
the bar due to the pre-drilled routing...

Thanks!

I am so glad that you asked this question, because I rode with new Cinelli Ram bars after having a
Deda Newton bar/stem for about the last year and a half.

My impression....no disrespect to Peter (from whom I bought wheels) and others here who feel that
carbon does not offer dampening, but my experience is quite the opposite.

I weigh 130 lbs and ride an aluminum/carbon frame. I also have a touch of carpel tunnel syndrome, I
think from training for so many hours on my Spinning bike and leaning on my hands. I bought the Rams
because I have lusted after them for the last 2 years; not for any performance benefit, but for
sheer art. I think they are the prettiest things I have ever seen (I know, my husband tells me I am
a complete bike whacker.)

I did NOT expect to feel any difference between the two bar setups, because I do believe that most
of what you hear/read is bu**[censored]. When I left the house this morning, I immediately noticed that
the bars felt a lot less "buzzy," and the whole front end felt quieter. There was definitely less
vibration being transmitted through the bars. Perhaps this is because the Ram's are a single piece
monocoque construction??? I don't know, but I can only describe it the way I have read others
describe riding on a carbon monocoque frame like an OCLV...sort of like a deadened feel (I've never
ridden one). While I don't think I would like this characteristic in a frame, it was just AWESOME in
the handlebars. I was much, much more comfortable than on the Deda setup.

One sidenote...my framebuilder and I could never get an annoying squeak in the front end of my bike
to stop....we dropped the fork and regreased everything, greased the stem bolts, stem, anything we
could think of and it WOULD NOT go away :< Well, one new set of Cinelli Rams later, and BLISSFUL,
BLISSFUL SILENCE ;>

Let the flames begin, Cat

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<< They made a substantial difference in comfort.

according to Peter you're wrong >><BR><BR>

I switched from a Cinelli aluminum to a Kestrel carbon hbar on my

Nobilette,

Quoted message said:

using the same everything else and I sure couldn't tell any difference.

Then

Quoted message said:

went to a Ritchey WCS for the shape and that felt the same as well...I

think

Quoted message said:

'vibration dampening' claims of various carbon bits are the stuff of the marketing department.

Not to start a(nother) flame fest, but...

Since we've all agreed that most of what we're feeling is in our heads, were you (Peter) being
predisposed to feeling nothing?

I was thinking that this would be a place to blind test different materials, but then I thought
about the carbon bars' different shapes. Instant giveaway.

Just curious... (and NOT trying to be an ass)

I keep hearing about carbon bars, forks, seatstays, etc and their vibration dampening properties. If
EVERYONE (well almost, see above) that is buying them is feeling the same thing, are they just
buying hype? or is there maybe something real there too? (now I'm being an ass...) I haven't ridden
either a carbon bar or carbon rear-ended bikes so I can't comment on them. I have ridden a steel
fork and a carbon fork back to back and I felt a little less "buzz" thru the carbon fork. It ain't
much, but it was there.

Mike

Quoted message said:

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

jr said:

As far as vibration dampening, which is the best carbon bar going (that is also hopefully
reliable...)??

Bike structural parts do not damp vibrations. Simple test is this: If it rings when struck, at all,
a monolithic part will not damp vibrations-- your body will absorb the vibration first.

"Carbon provides damping" is a falsehood intended to sell users on carbon parts that come with a
high price premium. There are things about carbon that make it a useful material option (low
density, tunable modulus, corrosion resistance) but significant vibration damping is not one of
them. There is more damping in your handlebar tape than in all the structural parts of any
unsuspended bike combined. And there is more damping in your hands than in any handlebar tape
ever made.

Any handlebar, in any material, that provides a given spring rate under load, will feel identical to
any other bar with a like spring rate. If what you want is a flexible handlebar, just use a very
lightweight aluminum model made from a high strength alloy. It will likely deliver flex more cost-
effectively than any carbon fiber bar.

Chalo Colina

"jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

As far as vibration dampening, which is the best carbon bar going (that is also hopefully
reliable...)??

The one that is wrapped by the thicker, squishier, corkier tape and is held by the best padded
gloves. Also, tires w/ less psi will help. Bending elbows and relaxing arms will help too, and
pointing the saddle slightly up, so that you are not leaning on your hands all the time.

This advise is worth 50% of the savings from not having to switch bars, minus the gloves and tape
that you might buy. Send me an email so that I can give you my paypal account and you can send me
the payment. Thanx

Andres

PS: If someone wants additional cost saving advise, don't hesitate to ask. I'll only take 50% of
your savings.

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A substantial improvement in your head is still a substantial improvement. Whatever works for you
is fine.

Hey, how do I get a substantial improvement in my head? I certainly need one and neither the therapy
nor the effexor has worked!

Should I bang it with a carbon fiber or aluminum bar.

Andres

"Cat Dailey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As far as vibration dampening, which is the best carbon bar going (that

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

also hopefully reliable...)?? Although I love the look of the Cinelli

RAM,

Quoted message said:

I think they are out as a choice due to the fact that you seem to have

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mount the levers low on the bar due to the pre-drilled routing...

Thanks!

I am so glad that you asked this question, because I rode with new Cinelli Ram bars after having a
Deda Newton bar/stem for about the last year and a half.

My impression....no disrespect to Peter (from whom I bought wheels) and others here who feel that
carbon does not offer dampening, but my

experience

Quoted message said:

is quite the opposite.

I weigh 130 lbs and ride an aluminum/carbon frame. I also have a touch of carpel tunnel syndrome,
I think from training for so many hours on my Spinning bike and leaning on my hands. I bought the
Rams because I have lusted after them for the last 2 years; not for any performance benefit,

but

Quoted message said:

for sheer art. I think they are the prettiest things I have ever seen (I know, my husband tells me
I am a complete bike whacker.)

I did NOT expect to feel any difference between the two bar setups,

because

Quoted message said:

I do believe that most of what you hear/read is bu**[censored]. When I left the house this morning, I
immediately noticed that the bars felt a lot less "buzzy," and the whole front end felt quieter.
There was definitely less vibration being transmitted through the bars. Perhaps this is because
the Ram's are a single piece monocoque construction??? I don't know, but I

can

Quoted message said:

only describe it the way I have read others describe riding on a carbon monocoque frame like an
OCLV...sort of like a deadened feel (I've never ridden one). While I don't think I would like this
characteristic in a frame, it was just AWESOME in the handlebars. I was much, much more
comfortable than on the Deda setup.

One sidenote...my framebuilder and I could never get an annoying squeak in the front end of my
bike to stop....we dropped the fork and regreased everything, greased the stem bolts, stem,
anything we could think of and

it

Quoted message said:

WOULD NOT go away :< Well, one new set of Cinelli Rams later, and BLISSFUL, BLISSFUL SILENCE ;>

Let the flames begin, Cat

Cat,

I'm with ya on the carbon bar thing. The difference when I installed my Easton carbon bars was quite
evident. I know there are SOOOO many here who will refute my observation because I can't quantify
it. But I have two bikes that formerly had identical aluminum bars. I still ride both bikes, but on
the one I now have the carbon bars. The difference is quite remarkable and noticeable on the tar and
gravel roads I ride daily.

But I'm sure others who have never ridden carbon bars will know more about it than I do.

Bob C.

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My impression....no disrespect to Peter (from whom I bought wheels) and others here who feel
that carbon does not offer dampening, but my

experience

Quoted message said:

is quite the opposite.

I weigh 130 lbs and ride an aluminum/carbon frame. I also have a touch of carpel tunnel
syndrome, I think from training for so many hours on my Spinning bike and leaning on my hands. I
bought the Rams because I have lusted after them for the last 2 years; not for any performance
benefit,

but

Quoted message said:

for sheer art. I think they are the prettiest things I have ever seen (I know, my husband tells
me I am a complete bike whacker.)

Quoted message said:

Cat,

I'm with ya on the carbon bar thing. The difference when I installed my Easton carbon bars was
quite evident. I know there are SOOOO many here who will refute my observation because I can't
quantify it. But I have two bikes that formerly had identical aluminum bars. I still ride both
bikes, but on the one I now have the carbon bars. The difference is quite remarkable and
noticeable on the tar and gravel roads I ride daily.

But I'm sure others who have never ridden carbon bars will know more about it than I do.

Bob C.

Hi Guys, I'm looking forward to doing the research myself. I just put Easton EC90 carbon fiber bars
and an Easton EC70 CF seatpost on my steel LeMond Tourmalet. Unfortunately, it will be a month or
two, before I'll get the chance. I'm in Wisconsin and I have an older bike that I will ride in
Spring, when the roads are still showing traces of salt.

I bought the bars [I got a great deal on them, Ebay] for numerous reasons, including the low weight,
and the shape of the EC90. I have had some numbing problems in my hands and the angled shape towards
the hoods, helps me keep pressure off some of the nerves in my hands. If they help with vibration,
it would be one more benefit. Although I use the gel pads that come with Specialized Bar Phat, which
I'm sure do more for relieving vibration than the bars possibly could. And I usually wear gloves,
last year Pearl Izumi White Line and for this year, I think I'm going to try the PI Gel Lites. So
I've got the vibration situation, covered.

I bought the setpost[another great deal] for weight reduction and I like the amount of setback. With
my original post, I had the seat all the way back. With the EC70, it is more centered.

Another reason I bought both them, is that I really like the way they look, the whiz bang factor;-)
The bars are wrapped with tape, so only I, or someone in the know would even be aware of them and
what they are, doesn't matter. I feel good about them and they will make me want to ride, even more.
Except for the wheels, which I am going to have built by a pro, I have been doing all the install
work [bars, shifters, cables, crank, and BB] myself, so there has been a great deal of satisfaction
and pride there too. I've said it before, but whenever I look at this bike, it screams "RIDE ME"!

A steel bike with Bar Phat, CF bars and post, should make for a bike that rides like a dream. The
only thing lacking is a CF fork, but I am happy with the steel one, for the foreseeable future anyway;-
) I can hardly wait;-)

Life is Good! Jeff

On 18 Feb 2004 15:50:03 -0800, [email hidden] (andres muro)

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A substantial improvement in your head is still a substantial improvement. Whatever works for you
is fine.

Hey, how do I get a substantial improvement in my head? I certainly need one and neither the
therapy nor the effexor has worked!

Should I bang it with a carbon fiber or aluminum bar.

Carbon fiber bars are more h*lm*t compatible. For the best results, make sure it's an _aero_ shaped
carbon fiber bar.

That's fine for bars to be thwacked on the head, but when will they make bars that can be
fitted nasally?
--
Rick Onanian

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike-<< Since we've all agreed that most of what we're feeling is in our

heads,

Quoted message said:

were you (Peter) being predisposed to feeling nothing?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Good questiuon as I put them on for the shape, not the 'vibration dampening'..The Cinellis were
26.4mm, and I couldn't find a stem that was proper length for the hbars, so got a 26mm and then
the carbon bars..

Have you tried riding on the carbon bars for a bit, then hopping off and jumping on another bike
without them? What was your experience?

Mike

Quoted message said:

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"