Cycling Equipment · Public discussion

Goin' triple (and why not a triple with a 53?)

Started by Rick Onanian · · Last activity · 25 posts · 1,343 views

This thread is locked and is currently read-only.

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
Cycling Equipment
Published
20 January 2004
Last activity
23 January 2004
Original author
Rick Onanian
Posts
25
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
1,343
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 25
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Warning: My usual excessively-long post follows. For your convenience, here's an index: Intro
    Existing condition Link to bike specs My guess of what I need Short cage rear derailer OK? Left
    shifter ok. Chain questions: Old chain, how to join Old cassette or new cassette? Thank you, and
    have a nice day. 😉

    I'd like a triple crank, and I'm seriously considering just dropping the money and getting it over
    with. I think I know what I need and how I'll do it.

    I currently have a 2001 full Shimano 105 double setup, except a 12-27 Ultegra cassette and Dura Ace
    chain. There's 500 miles on everything except the chain and cassette, which have probably 400. I
    have the original chain and cassette (105 12-25), too.

    The bike is: tinyurl.comjweb

    I think I can get away with the following:
    - Crankset
    - Front derailer
    - Bottom bracket

    I understand that without the long-cage rear derailer, I'll have to be careful not to run middle-
    small and small-small gears; this isn't something I'm likely to do anyway. More importantly, though,
    I've read somewhere that performance will suffer because the rear derailer isn't designed to take up
    so much slack so quickly. If that's the case, how bad will it be? I occasionally do need to hard-
    shift (shift while pedalling hard).

    It seems my left shifter will work fine for triple.

    Why can't I find a triple with a 53 big ring anywhere? I understand that it's an issue with the
    front derailer capacity, but why not make the other two rings one tooth larger? Can I create a
    triple with a 53 that shifts well?

    If I need extra length in the chain, can I join the 400 mile old Dura Ace to the 100 mile old 105?
    What brand/model of quick link should I use?

    Should I use the 100 mile old cassette to match the new crank, since the 400 mile old cassette may
    be a little worn? I think, given a triple front, I can deal with the 12-25...

    TIA, Rick Onanian

  2. Last year I replaced my Ultegra Double (53/39) with a cheap triple and replaced the two large rings
    giving me 53/39/30. I left the old (1989) 13-24
    (7) cassette in place and fitted a new front mech. a new 105 triple one. This bike has Shimano 105
    down tube shifters not STi so the front mech is operated by a friction lever. So the bike had
    newish rings, new BB, new front mech. old DT levers, old cassette and old (1989) rear mech. from
    a 7 speed groupset. Also new 105 dual pivot brake calipers but thats irrelevant here.

    It all worked fine. I think there would have been more problems had I been using STi but that bike
    doesn't so there wasn't.

    The chainset got damaged en route to France so I had a Coda triple fitted with 52/42/30 rings, still
    worked, when I got home from France I replaced the 42 for a 39 and replaced the rear mech with a new
    long cage 105 one as it was damaged on the return journey. Still works fine.

    --
    The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely. mseries.freeserve.co.ukmseries.freeserve.co.uk

  3. Rick-<< I think I can get away with the following:
    - Crankset
    - Front derailer
    - Bottom bracket >><BR><BR>

    Yep, that's it/ You may have some chain length issues with the short cage rear der(needs to be
    artificially short to prevent top pulley/cog noise/interference in small ring/big cog) so big/big
    will not be possible w/o breaking the chain.

    Rick<< Why can't I find a triple with a 53 big ring anywhere? >><BR><BR>

    Campagnolo has three...FSA does too. But get the triple, put a 53 on it from a double, like an
    Ultegra..it'll work. Remember that with a brazeon front der and the triple, longer arm front der,
    you 'may' have problems getting the front der clearing the 53...'may'...

    Remember you may need to shorten a chain, not lengthen it.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

  4. "Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Warning: My usual excessively-long post follows. For your convenience, here's an index:


    ....>

    Quoted message said:

    Why can't I find a triple with a 53 big ring anywhere? I understand that it's an issue with the
    front derailer capacity, but why not make the other two rings one tooth larger? Can I create a
    triple with a 53 that shifts well?

    My Trek had an Ultegra triple. I tried to put a 54 and then 53 on it, but the front derailleur holes
    were too low -- I couldn't get the derailleur high enough to clear. I don't know if this would apply
    to other bikes. The triple derailleur cage just hangs too low to accomodate the big rings.

    -jens

  5. Jens Kurt Heycke said:

    My Trek had an Ultegra triple. I tried to put a 54 and then 53 on it, but the front derailleur
    holes were too low -- I couldn't get the derailleur high enough to clear. I don't know if this
    would apply to other bikes. The triple derailleur cage just hangs too low to accomodate the
    big rings.

    I've said it before, I'll say it again:

    Front derailer braze ons are the work of SATAN!

    Sheldon "Versatility" Brown +-------------------------------------------------------------+
    | I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation. | --George Benard Shaw |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
    Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
    shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.com sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.com

  6. Sheldon Brown said:

    I've said it before, I'll say it again:

    Front derailer braze ons are the work of SATAN!

    I agree that braze ons are bad things if unavoidable. But how do you recommend attaching a FD to a
    bike that has an aero (non-round) seat tube?

    Dave dvt at psu dot edu

  7. I pontificated:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Front derailer braze ons are the work of SATAN!



    A Dave said:


    I agree that braze ons are bad things if unavoidable. But how do you recommend attaching a FD to a
    bike that has an aero (non-round) seat tube?

    When did I ever recommend non-round seat tubes? ;-)

    Sheldon "If Ya Gotta, Ya Gotta" Brown +----------------------------------------------+
    | Every person who has mastered a profession | is a skeptic concerning it. | --George
    | Bernard Shaw |
    +----------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
    617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    captainbike.comcaptainbike.com sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.com

  8. On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:57:33 -0500, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I understand that without the long-cage rear derailer, I'll have to be careful not to run middle-
    small and small-small gears; this isn't something I'm likely to do anyway. More importantly,
    though, I've read somewhere that performance will suffer because the rear derailer isn't designed
    to take up so much slack so quickly. If that's the case, how bad will it be? I occasionally do need
    to hard-shift (shift while pedalling hard).

    It seems my left shifter will work fine for triple.

    Have you considered a 50/34 110 bolt pattern crankset with your existing 12/27 or a custom 11/28?
    (11,12,13, 14,16,18,21,24,28)

  9. dvt <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    I agree that braze ons are bad things if unavoidable. But how do you recommend attaching a FD to a
    bike that has an aero (non-round) seat tube?

    The problem isn't braze-ons per se, but the short adjustment range of most (all?) braze-ons. Why
    can't they make that hole 5 or 10 mm longer?

    BTW - I'm not so sure you want to clamp a FD onto a carbon seattube, round or not.

  10. Rick Onanian wrote:

    -snip-> Why can't I find a triple with a 53 big ring anywhere? I understand

    Quoted message said:

    that it's an issue with the front derailer capacity, but why not make the other two rings one
    tooth larger? Can I create a triple with a 53 that shifts well?


    -snip-

    Most bike shops who do sell and service road/touring bikes will have 53t chainrings in both
    Campagnolo's 135 mm and Shimano's 130mm size. With a new crank purchase that should range from
    cheap to free. You'll pay more for the odd rings ( 45, 46) than for ones taken off other people's
    new bicycles.

    You don't mention your gear layout but one criticism of modern "racing triples' (50-40-30, 52-42-30,
    etc) is the overly large limit of the middle gear. We see renewed interest in smaller ratios with
    things like 26-36-48.Did you work out the gearing of a 53/12? It's about 120 inches.

    But gearing is personal and if that's what you want it will be easily found. A Campagnolo Veloce
    triple with 53-42-30 and matching Campagnolo ACH crank bearing will run about $120~$150, Ultegra
    about $200-$240, depending on 2003/2004 and your vendor's chainring charge.
    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  11. Rick Onanian wrote: -snip-

    Quoted message said:

    I understand that without the long-cage rear derailer, I'll have to be careful not to run middle-
    small and small-small gears; this isn't something I'm likely to do anyway. More importantly,
    though, I've read somewhere that performance will suffer because the rear derailer isn't designed
    to take up so much slack so quickly. If that's the case, how bad will it be? I occasionally do
    need to hard-shift (shift while pedalling hard).


    -snip-

    Quoted message said:

    If I need extra length in the chain, can I join the 400 mile old Dura Ace to the 100 mile old 105?
    What brand/model of quick link should I use?


    -snip-

    Yes you could technically do that and just avoid the small-small with its chain sag. But a rear
    changer of the appropriate length is cheap. I'd change it.

    "Performance" is an odd word here. The problem isn't shifting, it's the slack chain falling off the
    bottom of the lower pulley and twisting your rear changer into a knot.

    And you don't have a chain length issue. Chain length is determined by the big-big and you aren't
    increasing that.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  12. Rick Onanian said:

    Warning: My usual excessively-long post follows. For your convenience, here's an index: Intro
    Existing condition Link to bike specs My guess of what I need Short cage rear derailer OK? Left
    shifter ok. Chain questions: Old chain, how to join Old cassette or new cassette?...

    This is a table of contents, and not an index. In addition, you forgot the page numbers. 😉

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities

  13. First of all, thank you everybody for your helpful replies! I'll be awhile digesting them; but
    here's my first bit of regurgitation.

    (Qui si parla Campagnolo) said:

    Rick<< Why can't I find a triple with a 53 big ring anywhere? >><BR><BR>

    Campagnolo has three...FSA does too.

    I'm open-minded. Can I use Campagnolo or FSA cranks on an otherwise Shimano bike?

    Quoted message said:

    But get the triple, put a 53 on it from a double, like an Ultegra..it'll work. Remember that with a
    brazeon front der and the triple, longer arm front der, you 'may' have problems getting the front
    der clearing the 53...'may'...

    I'll have to check it out, see how much room I have for adjustment.

    Quoted message said:

    Remember you may need to shorten a chain, not lengthen it.

    Understood.

    Quoted message said:

    Peter Chisholm

    Thanks, Rick Onanian

  14. David L. Johnson said:

    ... Whatever comes with the chain. If you have to buy it separate, you're spending a lot more than
    you have to. SRAM chains are cheap and come with Craig superlinks. If you buy a shimano chain, you
    spend more for the chain to start, plus you spend another $5 for the link....

    My SRAM chains came with SRAM "Powerlinks".

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities

  15. Ken said:

    BTW - I'm not so sure you want to clamp a FD onto a carbon seattube, round or not.

    No problem there, Ken. Look at a carbon seatpost, and the load it handles via clamping, vs.
    a derailer.

    Matt O.

  16. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    BTW - I'm not so sure you want to clamp a FD onto a carbon seattube, round or not.

    No problem there, Ken. Look at a carbon seatpost, and the load it handles


    via

    Quoted message said:

    clamping, vs. a derailer.

    Apples & oranges. First of all, carbon seatposts fail. Quite a few failed Campy carbon posts out
    there. Of course, they failed (according to the manufacturer) because they weren't used with the
    correct type of seatpost clamp, nor were they tightened properly with a torque wrench.

    Second, a carbon seatpost can be over-engineered to handle compression stresses, if desired.
    Sometimes a sleeve is installed on the area that is to be clamped, sometimes they just make them
    thicker. So can a frame, but the added weight might make it less-competitive vs other models, and
    if the internal sleeve were to become loose and make noise, there'd likely be no way to easily
    repair it.

    Third, if a carbon seatpost fails, it's not that big a deal (unless it does so when you're riding
    over a big bump!). Maybe it's warranty, or maybe you're out $100. But if a frame fails because
    somebody overtightens the clamp...

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.com

  17. Sheldon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I pontificated:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Front derailer braze ons are the work of SATAN!



    A Dave said:


    I agree that braze ons are bad things if unavoidable. But how do you recommend attaching a FD to
    a bike that has an aero (non-round) seat tube?

    When did I ever recommend non-round seat tubes? ;-)

    Sheldon "If Ya Gotta, Ya Gotta" Brown

    Dear Sheldon, David J., and dvt,

    My copy of "A Christmas Carol" has been defaced. It seems to be set during the post-Christmas sales,
    and Scrooge has turned into someone else.

    Carl Fogel

    . . .This lunatic, in letting Sheldon's nephew out, had let two other people in. They were portly
    gentlemen (both named Dave), pleasant to behold, and now stood, with their helmets off, in
    Sheldon's office. They had Palm Pilots in their hands, and bowed to him.

    "Sheldon and Harris's, I believe," said one of the gentlemen, referring to his PDA. "Have I the
    pleasure of addressing Mr Sheldon, or Mr Harris?"

    "Mr Harris has been dead these seven years," Sheldon replied. "He died seven years ago, this
    very night."

    "We have no doubt his liberality is well represented by his surviving partner," said the gentleman,
    presenting his credentials.

    It certainly was; for they had been two kindred spirits. At the ominous word "liberality," Sheldon
    frowned, and shook his head, and handed the credentials back.

    "At this festive season of the year, Mr Sheldon," said the gentleman, taking up a pen, "it is more
    than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, whose
    shifting suffers greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries;
    hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir, such as brazed-on derailleurs for non-
    round aero seat-tubes."

    "Are there no local bike shops?" asked Sheldon.

    "Plenty of local bike shops," said the gentleman, laying down his Palm Pilot again.

    "And the WalMarts?" demanded Sheldon. "Are they still in operation?"

    "They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."

    "The bus-lines and elevated trains are in full vigour, then?" said Sheldon.

    "Both very busy, sir."

    "Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their
    useful course," said Sheldon. "I'm very glad to hear it."

    "Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian transportation to the multitude,"
    returned the gentleman, "much less decent shifting, a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to
    buy the Poor some braze-on fittings for their non-round aero seat-tubes. We choose this time,
    shortly after the end of the financial year, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is
    keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?"

    "Nothing!" Sheldon replied.

    "You wish to be anonymous?" asked one of the Dave's, who was strangely unaware of Sheldon's habit of
    teasing of anonymous posters.

    "I wish to be left alone," said Sheldon. "Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my
    answer. I don't make merry myself after the Christmas sales and I can't afford to make idle, out-of-
    round people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and
    those whose shifting is badly off must go there."

    "Many can't go there; and many would rather die than use clamp-on derailleurs and round
    frame tubing."

    "If they would rather die," said Sheldon, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus shiftless
    population. Besides -- excuse me -- I don't know that," added Sheldon, who suddenly seemed to be
    channeling Jobst Brandt.

    "But you might know it," observed the gentleman.

    "It's not my business," Sheldon returned. "It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and
    not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Besides, I like fixed gear
    bicycles better. Good afternoon, gentlemen!"

    Seeing clearly that it would be useless to pursue their point, the gentlemen withdrew.

    Sheldon resumed his labours with an improved opinion of himself, and in a more facetious temper than
    was usual with him.

    "Brazed-on derailleurs and non-round aero seat-tubes," said Sheldon. "Bah! Humbug!"

  18. Tom Sherman said:
    Rick Onanian said:

    Warning: My usual excessively-long post follows. For your convenience, here's an index:

    This is a table of contents, and not an index. In addition, you forgot the page numbers. 😉

    Drat. I had intended to write "table of contents", but decided "index" would be quicker. Now, here I
    am spending that time that I thought I had saved! <G>

    Quoted message said:

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities


    --
    Rick Onanian

  19. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Carl Fogel

    Dear Sheldon, David J., and dvt,

    My copy of "A Christmas Carol" has been defaced. It seems to be set during the post-Christmas sales,
    and Scrooge has turned into someone else.

    Carl Fogel

    Dear Carl,

    This sort of post must stop forthwith. Your writing breaks all the unwritten rules of Usenet and debases the literary style that has been lovingly nurtured for so long. As penance you must henceforth adhere to the following rules:

    No sentence shall start with a capital letter except when quoting e.e. cummings or replying to g. daniels.
    “You are” must always be abbreviated as “your”.
    “Too”, meaning also, extremely, excessively, must be spelt “to”.
    Never use a single word when several will suffice. Try to get set. Use “group set”, “wheel set”, “crank set” or, better still, “crank arm set” and “frame set”. It would be unthinkable to have a bicycle frame equipped with wheels and cranks.
    Always use a preposition to end a sentence with.

    Please follow the rules or I will set BaCardi on to you.

    John Retchford

    PS I just loved your article. Please break the rules. A literary man in our midst is a refreshing change.

  20. John Retchford said:

    Dear Carl,

    Never use a single word when several will suffice.

    Are you accusing Carl of brevity? The same Carl Fogel that posts to
    r.b.tech?

    Dave dvt at psu dot edu

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.