Thermarest Question

Paul Saunders said:

Is the insulation of the Ultralite model okay for winter camping?

I find it fine. I was nice and toasty at the Christmas expedition at Pencelli and also in the
Cairngorms in "winter" p-t-cook.freeserve.co.ukpic0001.jpgOpen ↗
--
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In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Do you think it's practical to get everything into a 55 litre rucksack?

Depends how long you are out for. For a weekend I can happily get everything into a 45 litre sac. I
don't carry the same volume of photofetish gear you appear to but have to ask - do you carry your
photo kit in your sac or in extra bags?

If you are going for an ultralite thermarest make sure you have a good sleeping bag. If you are not
so sure about your bag go for a guidelite t'rest which has more insulation without a huge
bulk/weight penalty.

Of course "winter" is a little hard to define and you may be fine on a warm winter night with poor
kit but suffer if the weather gets a bit sharp...

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In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you think it's practical to get everything into a 55 litre rucksack?

Depends how long you are out for.

3-4 days probably.

Quoted message said:

For a weekend I can happily get everything into a 45 litre sac.

Are you serious?

Yes. The sac is a Berghaus Icestar from 15 years ago and perhaps is a bit larger than some
nominally 45L sacs.

Previously it would not all fit in my Icestar and I used a 70L Cyclops Roc like yours (and I tended
to fill it). However with the acquisition of the Argos tent and a 3/4 ultralight t'rest and a few
other new small / light items it all goes in.

I would love a Saunders Spacepacker Mk1 so I could have more space for less weight but it is nearly
10 times as much dosh.

Quoted message said:

I am talking about winter camping here.

Me too.

I have moved away from my older bombproof waterproofs to a much lighter jacket (ME Drilite plus). I
have some lightweight waterproof leggings but also have some Pertex showerproof / windproof ones
that are only 200g and very small. Unless I expect lots of weather the waterproof leggings stay at
home - I wear tracksters most of the time so getting a bit damp is not much of an issue if I can
keep the wind off.

I also have a couple of Pertex smocks and a newly acquired Montane Lightspeed Pertex jacket but
those are best left for day jaunts where the weather prediction is more reliable.

My z-bag is an ME Annapurna down bag that weighs ~ 1200g, squashes down very small and is good for
about -10 without extra clothes.

I carry an ME Lightline down jacket and a light ME fleece.

For cooking I have a few options but the small and light one is an MSR Pocket Rocket (with 100g gas
is more than enough for a weekend) and an Optimus Kettle (more of a pot with a lid). With matches,
lighter and a lexan spoon (along with a pen knife for cutting food) that is small light and just the
job for most needs.

Water is carried in a Platypus or Ortlieb water bag so takes up little more space than the
water does.

It is a combination of compact, versatile and light gear and leaving things out that
achieves the goal.

I just checked that it all goes in and it does with room for food. With
1.5L of water but no food the full sac weighs 10.7kg excluding camera (600g with case and
batteries).

Some Mr Mash, Uncle Bens 2 min rice, dried veg (peppers, onions, mushrooms), mixed herbs, chilli
powder, cup-a-soups, ASDA roast onion mash break (open pot and bag the contents, can now store other
small items in the pot with the original contents and use the pot for other foods too e.g. breakfast
cereal) and some cheese or meat (corned beef / mince) gives me my main meals and tasty snacks.
Cereal / muesli and milk powder (or long-life for luxury) for breakfast. Throw in a few cereal bars
and I'm done.

I just put together a two day supply and it came to 2kg. Unfortunately I'm out of dried milk so that
includes .5L of long-life. It fits in the sac but there is no room to spare so a couple of days and
nights would be the limit unless I put stuff on the outside (t'rest & tent) but I like to avoid
doing that.

Full list: ProAction 1man tent ME Annapurna down bag TR Ultralight 3/4 ME Lightline down jacket ME
Ultrafleece pullover ME Drilite plus jacket Needlesports Pertex leggings Optimus kettle MSR pocket
rocket + 100g cartridge + lighter + matches + foil windbreak Lexan spoon Leatherman micra Ortleib 2L
water bag + water Map (laminated or with case), compass, altimeter, eTrex (takes same batteries as
camera so can share spares) Canon A20 camera in waist belt bag with spare batteries Petzl Tikka with
spare batteries Strobe/torch (same batteries as camera) Whistle Small first aid kit to clean wounds
and cover Small amount of toilet paper Rucksac liner Food

Trouble is my sac is packed now so I want to head for the hills but I have commitments tonight 🙁

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My 17 year old son has an Ultralite model and has used it year round. He says he has no problem in
the winter time and he slept on it, under canvas, in the Lakes last winter in a temperature of -
11C..........and stayed warm with a good sleeping bag. People say that you need the thicker
varieties for things like Himalayan trecking but I'm a bit sceptical. I recall the times before
closed cell technology came along (erm.....going back 30 years now). We still went camping in
winter. I recall one freezing night in Borrowdale with hard groundfrost and a freezing ground fog to
tent height. We shared a few newspapers to put under our Blacks Icelandic sleeping bags ---It was
bloody freezing as I re-call.

Ron

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Is the insulation of the Ultralite model okay for winter camping?

Paul
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Paul Saunders said:

Is the insulation of the Ultralite model okay for winter camping?

Yes. I once spent a very comfortable night on my 3/4 length ultralite in a snow hole on a glacier in
Norway :-)

S.

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Is the insulation of the Ultralite model okay for winter camping?

Paul

If you're talking about the 3/4 length version, then I've used it in freezing/extreme windchill
conditions with no real problems despite being over 6 foot tall. I tend to use my rucksack as a
pillow or stuff clothes into a pillow case/ sleeping bag stuffsack. I find it best to put my jacket
under my legs and wear socks to keep the worst of the chill off.

Nick

Phil Cook said:

Quoted message said:

Is the insulation of the Ultralite model okay for winter camping?

I find it fine. I was nice and toasty at the Christmas expedition at Pencelli

Good, glad to hear it.

Quoted message said:

and also in the Cairngorms in "winter" p-t-cook.freeserve.co.ukpic0001.jpgOpen ↗

Yep, I'd call that winter.

So where's the cheapest place I can buy one? Cheapest I've seen on the net so far is £60.

I'd like to put together a very light kit for comfortable backpacking (as opposed to my usual base
camping). I know this isn't the best time of year but still. The Argos tent at 2.1kg isn't the
lightest available, but it's not too bad and it packs up very small. That new Terra Nova might be
worth considering.

Do you think it's practical to get everything into a 55 litre rucksack? I know David Laight would
have no problem but I do tend to carry a few cameras and stuff too. I tried downgrading from a 70
litre sack to a 65 litre, but I always find myself extending the lid and having trouble closing it.
This really won't do. I think my sleeping bag is the main culprit (bulk), but a good down bag should
solve that. Also my luxury thermarest takes up quite a bit of space. Not *that* heavy, but
definitely bulky.

Which brings me to my next question. If a 55 litre sized rucksack is indeed practical for reasonably
light weight camping (not ultra lite, this is winter remember, plus the photography), any
recommendations for a decent 55 litre sack? Preferably lightweight of course.

The Gelert X-PLORER 55L looks okay, very cheap at just £25. Weighs
1.8kg. Bargain or not? gelert.comgelert.comOpen ↗

Paul
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Ron Barker said:

My 17 year old son has an Ultralite model and has used it year round. He says he has no problem in
the winter time and he slept on it, under canvas, in the Lakes last winter in a temperature of -
11C..........and stayed warm with a good sleeping bag.

Cool.

Paul
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Simon Caldwell said:

Quoted message said:

Is the insulation of the Ultralite model okay for winter camping?

Yes. I once spent a very comfortable night on my 3/4 length ultralite in a snow hole on a glacier
in Norway :-)

Hmm... You've got to be different, haven't you?

Paul
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Nick Pedley said:

If you're talking about the 3/4 length version, then I've used it in freezing/extreme windchill
conditions with no real problems despite being over 6 foot tall. I tend to use my rucksack as a
pillow or stuff clothes into a pillow case/ sleeping bag stuffsack. I find it best to put my
jacket under my legs and wear socks to keep the worst of the chill off.

Well there seem to be a few views either way. I think I'll go for the full length though. Thanks for
the opinions.

Paul
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Paul Saunders said:

Phil Cook wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and also in the Cairngorms in "winter" p-t-cook.freeserve.co.ukpic0001.jpgOpen ↗

Yep, I'd call that winter.

Well it was 2nd May, hence the inverted commas.
--
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"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is the insulation of the Ultralite model okay for winter camping?

I find it fine. I was nice and toasty at the Christmas expedition at Pencelli

Good, glad to hear it.

I think the 3/4 length ones are perfectly adequate over the full length versions BTW. I don't think
you lose much heat through your feet and lower legs and anyway you can easily stuff something else
underneath them.

Paul Saunders said:

Phil Cook said:

Quoted message said:

Is the insulation of the Ultralite model okay for winter camping?

I find it fine. I was nice and toasty at the Christmas expedition at Pencelli

Good, glad to hear it.

Quoted message said:

and also in the Cairngorms in "winter" p-t-cook.freeserve.co.ukpic0001.jpgOpen ↗

Yep, I'd call that winter.

So where's the cheapest place I can buy one? Cheapest I've seen on the net so far is £60.

Hell I've seen them in shops in Hathersage for £45.

I've got a funeral in Sheffield next Thursday Paul - I can drop in and price them up if you like.

Quoted message said:

I'd like to put together a very light kit for comfortable backpacking (as opposed to my usual base
camping). I know this isn't the best time of year but still. The Argos tent at 2.1kg isn't the
lightest available, but it's not too bad and it packs up very small. That new Terra Nova might be
worth considering.

Do you think it's practical to get everything into a 55 litre rucksack? I know David Laight would
have no problem but I do tend to carry a few cameras and stuff too. I tried downgrading from a 70
litre sack to a 65 litre, but I always find myself extending the lid and having trouble closing it.
This really won't do. I think my sleeping bag is the main culprit (bulk), but a good down bag
should solve that. Also my luxury thermarest takes up quite a bit of space. Not *that* heavy, but
definitely bulky.

So strap it to the outside like I do.....:-) I can get my Argos tent amd all my camera gear (and you
know me and my primes!) inside a 65 litre sack.

Quoted message said:

Which brings me to my next question. If a 55 litre sized rucksack is indeed practical for
reasonably light weight camping (not ultra lite, this is winter remember, plus the photography),
any recommendations for a decent 55 litre sack? Preferably lightweight of course.

--
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looking at flat fields and that includes the castle.

Paul Saunders said:

So where's the cheapest place I can buy one? Cheapest I've seen on the net so far is £60.

A quick google comes up with £50 at the-the-Open ↗
outdoorshop.com/html/shop_moreinfo_cas_ultrafull.htm

S.

Paul Saunders said:

Nick Pedley wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you're talking about the 3/4 length version, then I've used it in freezing/extreme windchill
conditions with no real problems despite being over 6 foot tall. I tend to use my rucksack as a
pillow or stuff clothes into a pillow case/ sleeping bag stuffsack. I find it best to put my
jacket under my legs and wear socks to keep the worst of the chill off.

Quoted message said:

Well there seem to be a few views either way. I think I'll go for the full length though. Thanks
for the opinions.

There's a Thermarest accessory consisting of straps which turns the standard into a comfortable
chair. One of the great hits of last camping exped with wife. Don't know if works on 3/4 version.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
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Phil Cook said:

Quoted message said:

Yep, I'd call that winter.

Well it was 2nd May, hence the inverted commas.

Well I'd call that winter, in Scotland anyway.

(Don't say a word Bernard!)

Paul
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AndyP said:

I think the 3/4 length ones are perfectly adequate over the full length versions BTW. I don't
think you lose much heat through your feet and lower legs and anyway you can easily stuff
something else underneath them.

This is something I've wondered about but I'm not entirely convinced. Anyone else have
views on this?

What do you stuff underneat them? Spare clothes? Rucksack?

I tend to use my spare clothes as a pillow. Anyone think that a special Thermarest pillow is a
good idea?

Paul
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you think it's practical to get everything into a 55 litre rucksack?

Depends how long you are out for.

3-4 days probably.

Quoted message said:

For a weekend I can happily get everything into a 45 litre sac.

Are you serious? I am talking about winter camping here. I thought that I might be able to make do
with 55L at a push during high summer, but when I looked at the rucksack in the shop today I
refrained from buying it because I really didn't believe I could get a winter's camping trip's worth
of gear into it.

Quoted message said:

I don't carry the same volume of photofetish gear you appear to but have to ask - do you carry
your photo kit in your sac or in extra bags?

Glad you asked. Mostly separate, in padded holsters on my belt, but I do carry a small amount of
camera gear in my rucksack (my third camera - panoramic, not used much, plus filters, spare film and
tripod). For ultralite backpacking though I might be able to discipline myself to take just one
camera (with two lenses, plus spare cards, batteries, small tripod etc.)

Quoted message said:

If you are going for an ultralite thermarest make sure you have a good sleeping bag.

Interesting you should say that. I should be buying a very good one any day now.

Quoted message said:

If you are not so sure about your bag go for a guidelite t'rest which has more insulation without
a huge bulk/weight penalty.

I currently have a luxury thermarest which is two inches thick and great for basecamping, but a bit
bulky for lightweight backpacking. It's not really that heavy, but it's way too bulky for a 55L
sack, and the thing with travelling ultralight, is that every ounce counts (even if you're measuring
in grammes!).

I'll take your suggestion into consideration though.

Quoted message said:

Of course "winter" is a little hard to define and you may be fine on a warm winter night with poor
kit but suffer if the weather gets a bit sharp...

I've often camped in -3 C and I've often woken up shivering in my sleeping bag (for some reason it
*always* seems to be -3 C in the South Wales hills in autumn/winter). Hardly extreme cold, but a bit
chilly nonetheless. I've rarely encountered lower than -5 C in these parts. My coldest so far was
-10 C, but I don't expect that very often here on the South Wales riviera.

Paul
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Chris Street said:

Hell I've seen them in shops in Hathersage for £45.

I've got a funeral in Sheffield next Thursday Paul - I can drop in and price them up if you like.

Is that tomorrow? By all means check them out, but I don't mind paying £50.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not *that* heavy, but definitely bulky.

So strap it to the outside like I do.....:-)

I'm fed up of strapping things to the outside. For once in my life I'd like to be able to get
everything *inside* the rucksack! Even if that means using a bigger rucksack. I don't want to use a
smaller sack and not be able to get everything in it, that seems to be missing the whole point.

Quoted message said:

I can get my Argos tent amd all my camera gear (and you know me and my primes!)

Oh yes!

Quoted message said:

inside a 65 litre sack.

Well that's what I'm using at the moment. I should be able to fit everything in that once I've
bought it all, but I'd like to go even smaller.

Paul
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