Thermarest Question

my $0.10 worth..

..After much agonising and research and laying on shop floors, I've setteled on a thermarest
ultralite 3/4 length.

Field and Trek have them on offer at the moment.. mine was £45 which is pretty comprable to the net
I recon. They've the 'classic' version - which really isn't all that much bigger for £35.

I only bought the ultralight over the classic in the end as it gives me just enough room to get an
extra t-shirt into my 35l pack for a weekend ;o)

M

Bernie Hughes said:

I use one of these 'chairs' for car camping though I'd never take it backpacking.

Too heavy?

Paul
--
Calendars for 2004
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukcal.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Paul Saunders said:

Chris Street said:

Hell I've seen them in shops in Hathersage for £45.

I've got a funeral in Sheffield next Thursday Paul - I can drop in and price them up if you like.

Is that tomorrow? By all means check them out, but I don't mind paying £50.

Bugger. I've just got back from there!

--
79.84% of all statistics are made up on the spot. The other 42% are made up later on. In Warwick -
looking at flat fields and that includes the castle.

Chris Street said:

Bugger. I've just got back from there!

LOL! No problem.

Paul
--
Calendars for 2004
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukcal.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

figjam said:

Actually, I just found this with a google search. A UK supplier at . . .

fieldandtrek.comproduct.aspOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

May have to cut and paste URL ? (How do you do those tiny urls's ?)

Try here.

makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

--
Don`t Worry, Be Happy

Sandy
--

E-Mail:- [email hidden] Website:- ftscotland.co.ukftscotland.co.ukOpen ↗ IRC:- Sandyb in #rabble
uk3.arcnet.vapor.com Port:6667 #Rabble Channel Website:- ftscotland.co.ukrabbledOpen ↗
ICQ : 41266150

Jim Ford wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

I've never understood the idea of no down underneath. Good idea if you

sleep

Quoted message said:

all night on your back withoput moveing (who does?), but what happens

when

Quoted message said:

you roll on your side?

When you roll on your side in a down-filled bag it's even more compressed than if you were on your
back, as there's an even smaller contact area with the base, hence even higher compression of the
filling beneath.

"Steve Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Totally agree with you,

Quoted message said:

Again you're spot on,

Blimey, first time I've ever had any response like that to any comments I've made anywhere.

Jim, I have found this bag fair for sleeping on your side, rolling onto your side is fairly normal.
You actually turn inside the bag rather than the bag rolling with you. The TR stays quite firmly
flat in the sleeve. Now if you like to sleep on your stomach at times you could have trouble ! As
noted by Steve R below, the down underneath you is of minimal value when it isn't lofting. Since I
found a UK source for the Macpac Neve, does anyone there have good / bad experiences or stories
from others ?
--
Regards, Les e-mail munged, remove the obvious to reply direct

"Jim Ford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've never understood the idea of no down underneath. Good idea if you

sleep

Quoted message said:

all night on your back withoput moveing (who does?), but what happens when you roll on your side?

Regards: Jim Ford

Bernie Hughes said:

I'd tend to agree with all of the above. A 45L bag does me fine; a cheap Wild Rover with all the
trimmings cut off as it happens. Admittedly I haven't been backpacking in the depths of winter
recently, nor have I ever carried photographical equipment of any kind. I'd guess 55L would cover
those options without too much trouble.

Well thanks for the vote of confidence. I'll report back after I've bought the required gear and
decided what I can do without.

I figure that one or two sheets of A4 printouts from Anquet will serve my maps needs. I'd prefer
something more detailed than a 50k of course, but if travelling light is the objective, not bringing
my usual 3 maps will save me 12 ounces or so.

Paul
--
Calendars for 2004
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukcal.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

"Rifleman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nick Pedley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I will admit I have a huge 75+15 litre rucksack (Lowe Alpine Frontier) inside which I can fit
everything I need for up to 4 days

What? Are you doing DoE where they carry 6 month's worth of kit for 4

days?

Quoted message said:

What on earth do you carry for a 4 day camp that needs *85* litres????? You shouldn't need any
more than 65 litres (and I reckon that's pushing

it)

Quoted message said:

for a four day camp unless you've got a lot of climbing kit or similar as well....I reckon I could
get my camping kit into 55 litres.

And as a Scout - I recommend you get hold of The Campers and Trampers Weekend Book by Showell Styles
(a well-known Scout writer in the 50's and 60's) where he camped on all the Welsh 3000' summits for
four days carrying *20* lbs of kit! Including food!

Steve Jones said:

Quoted message said:

How much extra stuff would you take for a Winter trip that you wouldn't take in summer?

Quoted message said:

Totally agree with you, in Summer you have to take extra items in case the weather turns, but in
Winter you're wearing them anyway.

No, I don't. I bring very few extra items in summer because it's not really that cold. In winter I'm
not "wearing them anyway", they're in my rucksack. I'd get far too hot wearing all that spare
clothing when walking. I don't like to wear too much when on the move, but I need a lot when
standing around in the cold.

Quoted message said:

Also there is no need to carry as much water which should be easily available, so a winter pack
can weigh less than in Summer.

What? Carry water? I never carry any water when backpacking. You guys must have a completely
different gear philosophy to me because my winter pack weighs *way* more than in summer. Hell in
summer I sometimes don't bother with a tent at all, just a bivi bag.

Quoted message said:

Again you're spot on, if you use a bigger pack, you wil end up filling it with items 'just
in case'

Even with a smaller pack, I just end up strapping stuff to the outside. I don't bring stuff "just in
case" (although I tend to overdo the food a bit after the experience of running out a few times when
I was younger).

Quoted message said:

that you will probably end up not using.

But therein lies the problem, I *do* use it all. :-)

Quoted message said:

Better by far to impose discipline through lack of space.

That's what I'd like to do by buying a 55L sack, but thus far it hasn't worked.

Paul
--
Calendars for 2004
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukcal.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I don't bring a hat and gloves in summer, very few exta layers either. I carry very little spare
clothing in summer, but quite a lot in winter, for all that standing about in the cold taking
photos. And I never wear waterproofs unless it's actually raining, far too sweaty. I used to bring
heavier waterproofs in winter, but not anymore.

The point about the hat and extra layers (which, if I'm just wearing a short sleeve T shirt would be
an additional long sleeve T shirt and a microfleece top) are first off that if I'm going to Scotland
by coach for 2 weeks at a time I need to take enough stuff to cope with any unseasonal weather even
if it's 30 degrees sunshine when I set off. And secondly if it's chilly high up in the hills I wear
them to sleep in which enables me to get by with a cheap synthetic 600g sleeping bag.

Do you wear a hat when you're standing about taking photos by the way? I'd reckon a 65g hat to be
equivalent to at least say a 250g microfleece for walking and maybe another 300g of sleeping bag if
you sleep in it thereby saving the weight conscious backpacker about 500g.

Sandy wrote on Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:46:14 GMT....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

May have to cut and paste URL ? (How do you do those tiny urls's ?)

Try here.

makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Or here: tinyurl.comtinyurl.comOpen ↗ (Redirects faster.)

--
Tim Jackson [email hidden] (Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit patent.freeserve.co.ukpatent.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

Steve R. said:

Quoted message said:

what happens when you roll on your side?

When you roll on your side in a down-filled bag it's even more compressed than if you were on your
back, as there's an even smaller contact area with the base, hence even higher compression of the
filling beneath.

But the smaller contact area is smaller! So less of your body becomes cold. Besides, speaking as
someone who often sleeps on his side I find it much warmer than sleeping on my back or front, partly
because the contact area is so much smaller and partly because the parts of the body in contact with
the ground are far less critical. For example I'll often lay on my arm, which doesn't mind being
cold and that prevents the rest of my upper body from contact with the ground. Since the contact
area is smaller, more of the rest of the bag lofts giving more overall warmth.

Paul
--
Calendars for 2004
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukcal.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

AndyP said:

The point about the hat and extra layers (which, if I'm just wearing a short sleeve T shirt would
be an additional long sleeve T shirt and a microfleece top) are first off that if I'm going to
Scotland by coach for 2 weeks at a time I need to take enough stuff to cope with any unseasonal
weather even if it's 30 degrees sunshine when I set off.

Fair enough, whereas I mostly go wild camping "just up the road", so it's much easier to predict and
choose my weather. Even when I go "oop north" to Snowdonia, I take my car so I can always carry
extra gear in the car and decide whether or not to pack it when I get there. Summers are pretty mild
in the south of the UK anyway, even up high.

Quoted message said:

And secondly if it's chilly high up in the hills I wear them to sleep in which enables me to get
by with a cheap synthetic 600g sleeping bag.

A fair point.

Quoted message said:

Do you wear a hat when you're standing about taking photos by the way?

In the winter half of the year yes, not the summer half though.

Quoted message said:

I'd reckon a 65g hat to be equivalent to at least say a 250g microfleece for walking

Maybe that's why I don't like wearing too much when I'm walking in colder weather, because I usually
wear a hat.

Quoted message said:

and maybe another 300g of sleeping bag if you sleep in it thereby saving the weight conscious
backpacker about 500g.

Interesting concept. Do you sleep with your head inside or outside of the bag. I usually sleep with
it outside, I don't like to completely cocoon myself in my sleeping bag, not even when it's quite
cold (around zero or just below), only when it's *really* cold.

Paul
--
Calendars for 2004
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukcal.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

No, I don't. I bring very few extra items in summer because it's not really that cold. In winter
I'm not "wearing them anyway", they're in my rucksack. I'd get far too hot wearing all that spare
clothing when walking. I don't like to wear too much when on the move, but I need a lot when
standing around in the cold.

I don't carry a lot extra, but even if the weather is baking, there is always a chance of rain, as
has happened to me encountering a thunder storm in the Doethie Glen on Midsummer day last year.

Quoted message said:

What? Carry water? I never carry any water when backpacking.

I used to be like that, but I like to camp out on the tops and have learned the hard way.
1. April on the Pennine Way going past numerous reservoirs just North of the M62. No need to carry
water there - THINK AGAIN. The reservoir water was brackish even when boiled (hence I now carry a
pump filter). I had to take a lengthy detour to a pub to refil my bottle (and top up on liquid
reserves whilst the opportunity arose).
2. October last year finding the Black Mountains almost devoid of water and having to walk over two
miles to the main feeder stream of the Gwyrne Resr to refil my bottle. Then during the night it
pi**ed down, leaving huge puddles right outside my tent - Sod's Law!
3. A few weeks ago starting to climb up Cadair Idris from Bwlch Llyn Fach (The Lake to which the
Llyn refers has been infilled). Starting to climb steeply and realising that the streams I was
relying on were'nt there. Wasted a frustrating half hour following an underground stream and
unsucessfully trying to reach down through gaps in the rocks to reach the water with my filter
tube. Much of that massif must be limestone or similar and I was facing the prospect of trying to
cook a substantial pasta meal and porridge breakfast on less than 1 litre of water. It took a lot
of searching along the ridge to find a stream which was weak, even after recent rain. Anyway,
moral of the tale for me is when you see a chance to refil your bottle, take it.

Quoted message said:

You guys must have a completely different gear philosophy to me because my winter pack weighs
*way* more than in summer. Hell in summer I sometimes don't bother with a tent at all, just a
bivi bag.

I used to as well, but midges and the prospect of cooking in the rain, coupled with the fact that an
Akto weighs almost the same as a bivvy swung me in favour of the tent. If its really nice I leave
the tent packed and sleep out in the bag, but its nice to have a fall-back if the weather turns.

Steve

"Rifleman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rifleman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nick Pedley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I will admit I have a huge 75+15 litre rucksack (Lowe Alpine Frontier) inside which I can fit
everything I need for up to 4 days

What? Are you doing DoE where they carry 6 month's worth of kit for 4

days?

Quoted message said:

What on earth do you carry for a 4 day camp that needs *85* litres????? You shouldn't need any
more than 65 litres (and I reckon that's pushing

it)

Quoted message said:

for a four day camp unless you've got a lot of climbing kit or similar

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

well....I reckon I could get my camping kit into 55 litres.

And as a Scout - I recommend you get hold of The Campers and Trampers Weekend Book by Showell
Styles (a well-known Scout writer in the 50's and 60's) where he camped on all the Welsh 3000'
summits for four days

carrying

Quoted message said:

*20* lbs of kit! Including food!

I hate to say this but the only Styles books I can find available online are the 'Midshipman Quinn'
series. Got a copy I could borrow?

I never said the bag was full... It's not the weight, more the size of the contents. I had a 55litre
stuffed to the gills and with gear hanging off the outside *despite* having the same items as my
smaller friends who were able to get nearly everything into their sacks. I had a nasty time with
that bag because it was too short for my back. These days I can get everything inside that big bag
with room to spare. The main thing is that I'm comfortable with it even if I really have to watch
how much I put inside, but following the same basic plan every time helps.

How do you lot weigh your bags? I found the bathroom scales methods to give wildly different results
and can't face the 'one-bit-at-a-time' method.

Nick (BTW, DofE = 6 months gear for 4 days?! You do exaggerate! :-) )

P.S. I had a much better reply than the above prepared until OE went [censored] up. GRRRR!!!

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... <snip

Quoted message said:

Do you wear a hat when you're standing about taking photos by the

Quoted message said:

way?

In the winter half of the year yes, not the summer half though.

Quoted message said:

I'd reckon a 65g hat to be equivalent to at least say a 250g microfleece for walking

Maybe that's why I don't like wearing too much when I'm walking in colder weather, because I
usually wear a hat.

Quoted message said:

and maybe another 300g of sleeping bag if you sleep in it thereby saving the weight conscious
backpacker about 500g.

Interesting concept. Do you sleep with your head inside or outside of the bag. I usually sleep
with it outside, I don't like to completely cocoon myself in my sleeping bag, not even when it's
quite cold (around zero or just below), only when it's *really* cold.

Same here. You could put your hat on, assuming you'd brought it with you...

--

Bernie Get back on the wagon to reply..

"Nick Pedley" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

How do you lot weigh your bags? I found the bathroom scales methods to

give

Quoted message said:

wildly different results and can't face the 'one-bit-at-a-time' method.

What the total weight isn't very important so long as you're happy carrying it. But as a weight
reduction exercise it's only by weighing individual items that you can see where you could make
worthwhile savings.

"Nick Pedley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And as a Scout - I recommend you get hold of The Campers and Trampers Weekend Book by Showell
Styles (a well-known Scout writer in the 50's

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

60's) where he camped on all the Welsh 3000' summits for four days

carrying

Quoted message said:

*20* lbs of kit! Including food!

Have a look at www.abebooks.co.uk - that's where I got mine from, along with the Mountaineers
Weekend book by the same author. Bit dated now but good to dip into by the fire on a cold wet
winter's night!