GPS

phenian said:

Does anyone have any experience of GPS on a bike. I am looking at the Garmin eTrex range of GPS
devices and wondered if they are any good. I have MapPoint 2004 already and would be looking to
use it in France in the summer, where I am hoping it would be invaluable as my map-reading skills
are not that great.

Any advice gratefully received.

I haven't used GPS but have spoken to people who have.You say your map reading skills are not that
great,the problem is that GPS is not a substitute for poor map reading.You will need to take along a
compass as well ( I presume you will be off road to need a GPS ) in case the GPS packs up,can't get
a signal,you sit on it,batteries run down etc.Plus you will have to carry spare batteries. Learning
to read a map and use a compass is not all that difficult ( instructions usually come with the
compass ) and a lot cheaper than buying a GPS. IMHO GPS is more suitable for areas that can be truly
considered ' wild ' as opposed to areas well provided with roads, footpaths etc.

Sam Salt

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phenian said:

Does anyone have any experience of GPS on a bike. I am looking at the

Garmin

Quoted message said:

eTrex range of GPS devices and wondered if they are any good. I have MapPoint 2004 already and
would be looking to use it in France in

the

Quoted message said:

summer, where I am hoping it would be invaluable as my map-reading skills are not that great.

Any advice gratefully received.

Yes... well... on a motorbike actually. Been all over Europe using one.

They are a great tool to *aid* navigation. I set the routes up manually on my PC with much
pawing over the actual paper maps (which I absolutely love doing), deciding on and planning
routes and excursions/possible detours before the trip. I then download these routes to the GPS
(in my case a Garmin GPS III+) and can then use them as required to confirm I'm where I think I
should be en-route.

Everyone of my biking mates who attempts to use them as their sole means of navigation seems to wind
up getting hopelessly lost... or those that try to use the autoroute functions. Used in the manner I
do, they save me a lot of time (I already know largely the route beforehand, having done my
'homework'😉. I don't need to let those little uncertainties creep in which otherwise would mean
stopping the bike getting the map/s out and reconfirming my position/route. Or having the usual
heated discussion with another tired, irate, equally lost motorcyclist about how we should've turned
left at the last junction and that it is all my fault etc, etc. ;-)

All in all, a great secondary navigational tool. But one which still can't compare to the primary
tool... using yer loaf and learning the route beforehand.

The track logs are good though and can provide you with all sorts of useless statistics,
post trip. :o)

I wouldn't think it'd be such an issue on a pushbike since stopping and getting at a map (or having
it mounted already on a bar bag or summat) wouldn't be much of an issue. But hey, as a dyed in the
wool, fully paid up gadget freak, who am I to go spoiling your fun. :o)

--
Alex BMW R1150GS DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8 team-ukrm.co.ukteam-ukrm.co.ukOpen ↗ Windy's
"little soldier"

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:51:21 -0000, "phenian" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I have MapPoint 2004 already and would be looking to use it in France in the summer, where I am
hoping it would be invaluable as my map-reading skills are not that great.

French signposts are excellent, and their maps are good. Map reading on roads is trivial once you've
got the knack. Buy the gadget by all means, but I urge you to learn to read a map first!

Guy
===
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chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

I can read a map so am not looking for a substitute for that. My main problem is that I can't seem
to remember more than one or two directions at a time and find I stop every five minutes to check
that I am doing what I should be. I would much rather spend all this time beforehand and programme
my route in as long as I can be confident that the gadget is giving me good advice based on what I
have put in.

In article <[email hidden]>,

phenian said:

Does anyone have any experience of GPS on a bike. I am looking at the Garmin eTrex range of GPS
devices and wondered if they are any good.

I use one of my Garmin Geckos as a trip/speed/etc thing on a bike, not because it's better than a
trip computer but because I happen to own it for other reasons, it doesn't need a transducer and it
does PC upload. The main problem I have is that on a rigid bike it shuts down over major bumps,
presumably due to the batteries briefly shifting.

ian

phenian said:

I can read a map so am not looking for a substitute for that. My main problem is that I can't seem
to remember more than one or two directions at a time and find I stop every five minutes to check
that I am doing what I should be.

What about a handlebar or stem mounted map holder?

John B

phenian said:

I can read a map so am not looking for a substitute for that. My main problem is that I can't seem
to remember more than one or two directions at a time and find I stop every five minutes to check
that I am doing what I should be. I would much rather spend all this time beforehand and programme
my route in as long as I can be confident that the gadget is giving me good advice based on what I
have put in.

Far cheaper solution is to get one of those 30 second memo recorders and read your next few
directions into it. Costs between £5-10

Tony

"phenian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can read a map so am not looking for a substitute for that. My main problem is that I can't seem
to remember more than one or two directions

at

Quoted message said:

a time and find I stop every five minutes to check that I am doing what I should be.

Strip maps work well for that, I find. I guess a GPS is a sort of electronic strip map, but I find
that pencil 1.0 works just as well ;-)

--
Guy
===

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chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

phenian said:

I have MapPoint 2004 already and would be looking to use it in France in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

summer, where I am hoping it would be invaluable as my map-reading skills are not that great.

French signposts are excellent

aaarrrgghh! In what way? They have a lot of horrible failings.

They concentrate on towns rather than road numbers - this is a pain as you need maps of all scales -
you won't know whether the town indicated is 2 miles or 200 miles away. This assumes a knowledge of
the geography of the area. A second problem with this is that it assumes you want to go the
direction that the planners want you to go - poor assumption for cyclists. Worse are the infamous
"toutes directions" "autres directions". Odd that a road should go "everywhere" (and again, you are
in the hands of the road planners who know whats best for you.)

As they are used to not concentrating on road numbers, they are also more likely to have
changed since your map was produced - and to top this "D" roads do change number when they
cross a the departmental boundary. Some roads at the edge of a boundary change several times in
a short distance.

Once you get used to all that, you might get where you want, on the road you wanted to use. might.

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:16:18 -0000, in
<[email hidden]>, "Just zis Guy, you know?"

Quoted message said:

Strip maps work well for that, I find. I guess a GPS is a sort of electronic strip map, but I find
that pencil 1.0 works just as well ;-)

But Pencil 1.0 is not backward compatible with Eraser 0.7
--
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Ian G Batten said:

In article said:

Does anyone have any experience of GPS on a bike. I am looking at the Garmin eTrex range of GPS
devices and wondered if they are any good.

I use one of my Garmin Geckos as a trip/speed/etc thing on a bike, not because it's better than a
trip computer but because I happen to own it for other reasons, it doesn't need a transducer and
it does PC upload.

The Geko 201 and 301 do, the 101 at the bottom of the range doesn't do PC upload.

Quoted message said:

The main problem I have is that on a rigid bike it shuts down over major bumps, presumably due to
the batteries briefly shifting.

I've not used mine on a bike yet (I use it to record fell runs) but I'll look out for that. The
battery compartment seems fairly tight though, maybe a bit of padding and tape is needed?

Colin
--

phenian said:

I can read a map so am not looking for a substitute for that. My main problem is that I can't seem
to remember more than one or two directions at a time and find I stop every five minutes to check
that I am doing what I should be.

I copy the relevant map section, mark the route in highlighter with other notes if necessary, stick
the map in a polythene bag and peg it to my cables (though it now goes in a map bag on my bar bag.)
Every now and then I may have to stop to refold the map but only as often as I'd stop for a look at
the scenery anyhow.

Colin
--

In article <[email hidden]>,

Colin Blackburn said:

Quoted message said:

I use one of my Garmin Geckos as a trip/speed/etc thing on a bike, not because it's better than
a trip computer but because I happen to own it for other reasons, it doesn't need a transducer
and it does PC upload.

The Geko 201 and 301 do, the 101 at the bottom of the range doesn't do PC upload.

Obviously. I wish now I'd bought the 301 for the altimeter and compass, mind. One minor problem
witht he Geckos I think is the antenna: my other GPS is a GPS12, which although bigger is a lot more
tolerate of (in particular) overhead foliage.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The main problem I have is that on a rigid bike it shuts down over major bumps, presumably due
to the batteries briefly shifting.

I've not used mine on a bike yet (I use it to record fell runs) but I'll look out for that. The
battery compartment seems fairly tight though, maybe a bit of padding and tape is needed?

It's a slightly strange setup where both ends of the batteries are held by flexible lugs, not the
more common spring -ve, lug +ve. I suspect that if the batteries move along their length one end
comes loose.

ian

I use a Garmin E-Trex Legend and Memory Map and find them a fine combination.

I use the GPS with two bike mounts, one on my MTB and the other on my Roadbike, which saves having
to unscrew mounts all the time.

They do not (and will never) replace a map, compass and basic knowhow in relation to using
these items.

But they do assist greatly, and my experince is that the number of stops to pore over a map at a
crossroads are reduced if not negated.

I use mine in a number of ways:

1) I sit at home with the OS Maps on my PC and plot in a route I fancy (or am riding in a race) the
following day and transfer it via the PC interface into the GPS. Then on the big day, setting my
GPS to "Navigate" I follow the arrow at junctions (tip - when plotting on the map, put your
waymark points a few meters prior to the junctions/crossroads so the pointer gives you a bit of
advanced warning!!). There are various settings on this mode, and as you get used to them, you
will find the need for stopping and checking maps decreases.

2) When I go out on a "freeride", upon my return home, I can download the route onto the PC. It
overlays onto the OS map very accurately and you gat all the normal distance/time/speed/etc
readings along with a course profile showing just how hilly (or not) it was. I have found this
useful on some cross-country MTB routes in different regions, where you follow an unpublished
marked route, and it is quite interesting to see where you rode after the event. You can also
save this route and revisit it yourself when next in the area.

3) Probably the most basic use, is that it has taken the place of my Speedo/Mileometer. It gives a
load of readings depending on what you set, and is, as you would expect, very accurate. Obviously
it has the added advantage of needing no wires or spoke sensors, which I found were sometimes a
pain - especially on the MTB.

All in all, I would buy one again. Hope the above is of use - any questions come back to me

--
Regards from The Slapster, Cornwall, UK

Who hopes to die peacefully - just like his Uncle, And not kicking and Screaming - Like his Uncles
passengers!!

"Ian G Batten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

The main problem I have is that on a rigid bike it shuts down over major bumps, presumably due to
the batteries briefly shifting.

ian

Ian, I had the same problem, so I mailed Garmin. They were as good as gold and sent (free of charge)
an updated connector spring - it was actually the same sort of part but wiyh a small square of
neoprene between the contacts to stop the batteries becoming disconnected so easily.

I was also informed (by a man with a micrometer) that rechargable batteries are very slightly
smaller than Duracel (etc). I have now gotten over the problem by placing two strips of [censored] packet
across the batteries before replacing the cover.

Works well for me

--
Regards from The Slapster, Cornwall, UK

Who hopes to die peacefully - just like his Uncle, And not kicking and Screaming - Like his Uncles
passengers!!

Ian G Batten said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Colin Blackburn

Quoted message said:

The Geko 201 and 301 do, the 101 at the bottom of the range doesn't do PC upload.

Obviously.

To you and me yes, because we have one, but not necessarily obvious to someone just looking at
the options.

Quoted message said:

I wish now I'd bought the 301 for the altimeter and compass, mind.

I decided it wasn't worth the extra expense. I already have an Suunto altimeter watch which I use
for mountain marathons (where a GPS with altimeter would not be allowed.) However, it has been
explained to me that the barometric altimeter can help with the accuracy of the position when there
are only three satellites available, since one dimension is known. Whether the Geko 301 does this I
don't know.

Quoted message said:

One minor problem witht he Geckos I think is the antenna: my other GPS is a GPS12, which although
bigger is a lot more tolerate of (in particular) overhead foliage.

I tend to use mine in open country and as it isn't being used as a navigational aid loss of
signal is an annoyance rather than a worry. Of course the upside of the antenna is the sheer size
of the Geko.

Quoted message said:

It's a slightly strange setup where both ends of the batteries are held by flexible lugs, not the
more common spring -ve, lug +ve. I suspect that if the batteries move along their length one end
comes loose.

<looks in deskdraw> Yes, you're right. However, the lugs do bend out a fair bit acting as springs
and holding the battery in place. I find it hard to imagine the battery moving along its length
though I guess it is possible with off-road shocks. Maybe the lugs aren't bent out enough in yours?
They could probably be bent a little further with some fine pliers.

Colin
--

In article <[email hidden]>,

Colin Blackburn said:

Quoted message said:

Obviously.

To you and me yes, because we have one, but not necessarily obvious to someone just looking at the
options.

True. And a note to the casual reader: ALWAYS BUY A GPS WITH PC LINK, EVEN IF YOU DON'T PLAN TO USE
IT. Buying something where the manufacturer plans firmware updates, but which you can't apply, is
silly. I've put three new releases on my Gecko, and four or five on my GPS12. On the latter whole
new features, like area measurement (used it once) and power-save mode (use it all the time, doubles
battery life) have been delivered. On the Gecko, the WAAS stuff is going to take time to settle
down, and I bet there'll be more updates to address that.

Quoted message said:

altimeter would not be allowed.) However, it has been explained to me that the barometric
altimeter can help with the accuracy of the position when there are only three satellites
available, since one dimension is known. Whether the Geko 301 does this I don't know.

It might. Edge case, I'd say.

Quoted message said:

Yes, you're right. However, the lugs do bend out a fair bit acting as springs and holding the
battery in place. I find it hard to imagine the battery moving along its length though I guess it
is possible with off-road shocks. Maybe the lugs aren't bent out enough in yours? They

Unsuspended bike over cobbles. It's pretty reproducible. I'll try just packing the case first. I've
bought one of those extension bar things, which might provide a smidgeon of decoupling anyway.

ian

Sam Salt said:

phenian wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any experience of GPS on a bike. I am looking at the Garmin eTrex range of GPS
devices and wondered if they are any good. I have MapPoint 2004 already and would be looking to
use it in France in the summer, where I am hoping it would be invaluable as my map-reading skills
are not that great.

Any advice gratefully received.

Quoted message said:

IMHO GPS is more suitable for areas that can be truly considered ' wild ' as opposed to areas well
provided with roads, footpaths etc.

Unexpectedly I find my most frequent and valued use of a GPSR on a bicycle is just to use a simple
"GOTO" to the waypoint of a new destination in an unfamiliar part of town, having first checked a
map for any awkwardly large irregular obstructions such as a river which might need special
treatment, such as noting the best bridge to cross.

Then I simply cycle off in the right general direction, making up my route as I go along by changing
direction as the GPSR pointer indicates is appropriate. I find that using this method I can
confidently find shortcuts through lots of little streets which normally I would avoid, sticking to
the well known main roads, simply because I usually can't be bothered to make up a detailed route of
a possible short cut through mazes of little streets.

It's especially useful in those parts of town which have been rebuilt since my local city A-Z was
last updated, or where there are actually more cyclable roads and paths than are shown on the map.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Alex Ferrier said:

Everyone of my biking mates who attempts to use them as their sole means of navigation seems to
wind up getting hopelessly lost... or those that try to use the autoroute functions.

I think most folk at first make the same mistake with a GPSR as I did, of trying to get it to do too
much, of going into too much detail, too many waypoints, etc., and then trying to follow it blindly.
IMHO they work best when used as simply as possible, as an aid rather than as a substitute for one's
own natural navigation skills, and as an aid to locating yourself on a map, rather a subsitute.

Even the devices which display internal downloadable maps, and where the owner has actually bought
and downloaded the best local maps available for the device, are still extemely limited compared to
a good paper map, especially if you're on foot or bicycle, which means you can easily be using paths
and landmarks not on the internal map.

As an *aid* to map navigation they're a knockout.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]