Tyresavers

Andy said:

Does anyone have a source of tyre savers? I may end up making my own from wire and tube but
thought I would check here first

sjscycles.comvIndex.htmOpen ↗ sell some.

Tyre savers don't work, though. See: tinyurl.com2gq7tOpen ↗

~PB

Andy said:

Does anyone have a source of tyre savers? I may end up making my own from wire and tube but
thought I would check here first

a short length of leather boot-lace attached to mudguard stays works well.

I also have a design using an old spoke (or similar wire) that rests on the (normally) bit of space
above a cliper brake block.

--
Pete

interchange 12 for 21 to reply

Thanks for the SJS reference - I might use theirs and amend them because the only ones they show do
not fit mudguards

And I could not get the tinyurl to resolve - what was the full reference

Andy

Pete Biggs said:

Andy said:

Does anyone have a source of tyre savers? I may end up making my own from wire and tube but
thought I would check here first

sjscycles.comvIndex.htmOpen ↗ sell some.

Tyre savers don't work, though. See: tinyurl.com2gq7tOpen ↗

~PB

Andy Cawdell said:

Thanks for the SJS reference - I might use theirs and amend them because the only ones they show
do not fit mudguards

And I could not get the tinyurl to resolve - what was the full reference

groups.google.comgroupsOpen ↗ en

...Matter of opinion of course, but JB's theories seem plausible to me and the tyre saver I tried
years ago was no help.

~PB

Thanks - yes I agree about their use on racing bikes with no guards - certainly on modern circuit
and stage races where the roads are swept clean by motorised road traffic. I've had many muddy baths
when time trialling and road racing with those.

However, I've found them to be a diferent story when fitted with mudgaurds, around the bolts that
secure the guards to the mudguard stays, especially at the times when hedges are being clipped or
after the waste disposal operatives have done their weekly worst in collecting refuse

Andy

Pete Biggs said:

Andy Cawdell said:

Thanks for the SJS reference - I might use theirs and amend them because the only ones they show
do not fit mudguards

And I could not get the tinyurl to resolve - what was the full reference

groups.google.comgroupsOpen ↗ en

...Matter of opinion of course, but JB's theories seem plausible to me and the tyre saver I tried
years ago was no help.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Tyre savers don't work, though. See: tinyurl.com2gq7tOpen ↗

I looked at some of those threads. All the ones I looked at not only had JB insisting that they
don't work (seemingly on the basis that he's ridden thousands of miles without them without getting
any punctures), but also have someone saying just how useful tyre savers have been in their
experience.

Anyway, this thread reminded me that I've been meaning for months to make some tyre savers. So I've
done it this evening, by tying some stiff wire between my mudguard stays. I think the rear one will
need a bit more adjustment to move it close enough to the tyre.

I started keeping a log of punctures 10 months ago. In that time I've had 26 punctures. In the 4
months before I started keeping the log I seemed to be averaging about 2 a week. So I'm ready to try
just about anything, short of Slime, tyre liners or solid tyres.

(I commute by cyclepath, so I'm very hard on tyres).

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
speedy5.freeserve.co.ukdannyOpen ↗
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Danny Colyer said:

Pete Biggs said:

Tyre savers don't work, though. See: tinyurl.com2gq7tOpen ↗

I looked at some of those threads. All the ones I looked at not only had JB insisting that they
don't work (seemingly on the basis that he's ridden thousands of miles without them without
getting any punctures), but also have someone saying just how useful tyre savers have been in
their experience.

I believe objects that can be wiped off by a tyre saver won't cause punctures, otherwise they
would have already penetrated the tyre enough not to be scraped off by such a device. The object
has to be very sharp and orientated with a sharp face towards the tyre to cut it at all. If so,
it'll go straight in the instant the tyre hits it. It won't later flip round onto a sharper edge
and stay balanced there by itself so it'll just fall/squidge off after a few revolutions, causing
no harm at all.

I've noticed many times that tyres can be entirely free of cuts after riding, without wiping, after
masses of broken glass and other debris has stuck to them. Yet on other occasions they can get cut
or punctured straight after I've known them to be perfectly clean.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

I believe objects that can be wiped off by a tyre saver won't cause punctures, otherwise they
would have already penetrated the tyre enough not to be scraped off by such a device. The object
has to be very sharp and orientated with a sharp face towards the tyre to cut it at all. If so,
it'll go straight in the instant the tyre hits it.

That may depend largely upon how tough your tyres are. A small piece of glass might penetrate part
way into the tyre when it's first picked up, then be pushed further in with each revolution. I would
estimate about
1/3 - 1/2 of the punctures I get are caused in this way, so it seems reasonable that tyre savers
should work for me.

I've only had them on for one day. I'll reserve judgement for a couple of months. January and
February usually seem to be the worst months for punctures, so they should get a good test.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
speedy5.freeserve.co.ukdannyOpen ↗
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Danny Colyer said:

Pete Biggs said:

I believe objects that can be wiped off by a tyre saver won't cause punctures, otherwise they
would have already penetrated the tyre enough not to be scraped off by such a device. The object
has to be very sharp and orientated with a sharp face towards the tyre to cut it at all. If so,
it'll go straight in the instant the tyre hits it.

That may depend largely upon how tough your tyres are. A small piece of glass might penetrate part
way into the tyre when it's first picked up, then be pushed further in with each revolution.

I don't think that happens even with the softest of tread compounds. I use Vittoria Open Corsas (on
one bike) which cut extremely easily beacuse the rubber is so un-tough (it's soft for sake of
suppleness and grip). I include these in my observation about tyres not getting cut even after
they've been covered in loads and loads of broken glass which has stuck to the surface.

Quoted message said:

I would estimate about 1/3 - 1/2 of the punctures I get are caused in this way

I doubt that's how they're actually happening - even if you regularly find embedded glass in tyres.
I reckon that glass went straight in as you went over it. Rear tyre tends to collect more and
puncture more often because objects are flipped up onto their edges/sides by the front tyre. Of
course front tyres (and unicycles!) puncture as well but that requires more bad luck to run over
objects that are already lying with their sharp edge pointing upwards.

The alternative explanation for rear tyres puncturing more often is because of the extra weight
there. But I don't get more front punctures when front tyre pressure is reduced (which I think has
similar effect to more weight going on it). Also I don't get relatively more front punctures on
bikes where more weight definitely goes to the front.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Quoted message said:

That may depend largely upon how tough your tyres are. A small piece of glass might penetrate
part way into the tyre when it's first picked up, then be pushed further in with each revolution.

I don't think that happens even with the softest of tread compounds.

Sorry, I meant I don't think the piece of glass will penetrate after it's just stuck to the tyre
without penetrating. I agree the object can penetrate further with further revolutions*, but as I
wrote before, I don't think the tyre saver--a lightweight device not working with a massive load of
pressure or precision--won't manage to scrape it off after it has already penetrated enough to be a
potential problem. They could be of use if I (and Jobst Brandt) is wrong on that point.

* In any case, emebedded glass that doesn't immediately puncture tends to take a long time to work
its way in enough to eventually puncture. In a lot of/most cases, long enough to get home and
remove it first.

~PB

I said:

Quoted message said:

That may depend largely upon how tough your tyres are. A small piece of glass might penetrate
part way into the tyre when it's first picked up, then be pushed further in with each
revolution.

Pete Biggs said:

I don't think that happens even with the softest of tread compounds.

I was actually thinking of it being more likely with tougher compounds. Perhaps a 5mm piece of glass
would go straight into a soft tyre, but would only penetrate 2mm into a tougher tyre. Then it'll
penetrate another 2mm the next time round, unless it's wiped off by a tyre saver.

Quoted message said:

I use Vittoria Open Corsas (on one bike) which cut extremely easily beacuse the rubber is so un-
tough (it's soft for sake of suppleness and grip). I include these in my observation about tyres
not getting cut even after they've been covered in loads and loads of broken glass which has stuck
to the surface.

I use Schwalbe Marathons and Vredestein S-Licks, which may be why our experiences differ. My tyres
always end up full of cuts after a couple of thousand miles, especially the S-Licks. Perhaps your
supple tyres will flex and roll over a piece of glass that would cut a harder tyre? Or maybe you
just do fewer miles on glass strewn cyclepaths than I do.

Quoted message said:

I doubt that's how they're actually happening - even if you regularly find embedded glass in
tyres. I reckon that glass went straight in as you went over it.

If I ride through a patch of glass, I'll often stop and check the tyres. Perhaps 1/3 of the time
I'll find something that's just started to penetrate. IME, it happens.

Quoted message said:

I don't think the tyre saver--a lightweight device not working with a massive load of pressure or
precision--won't manage to scrape it off after it has already penetrated enough to be a potential
problem. They could be of use if I (and Jobst Brandt) is wrong on that point.

I'm not about to make any assumptions as to whether you're right or wrong. Your arguments make
sense, but my experience is that the sort of punctures that tyre savers may prevent aren't uncommon,
and I've got nothing to lose by giving them a go. I don't think I've got the back one close enough
to the tyre to do any good, though. I'll have to work on that a bit more.

Quoted message said:

* In any case, emebedded glass that doesn't immediately puncture tends to take a long time to work
its way in enough to eventually puncture. In a lot of/most cases, long enough to get home and
remove it first.

I will confess that I probably get a few punctures caused by glass that I rode through a couple of
days earlier and never got round to removing. But then one of the reasons I like cycling is because
I'm lazy: ravenfamily.orglazyman.htmOpen ↗

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
speedy5.freeserve.co.ukdannyOpen ↗
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Danny Colyer wrote: .........

Quoted message said:

I use Schwalbe Marathons and Vredestein S-Licks, which may be why our experiences differ. My tyres
always end up full of cuts after a couple of thousand miles, especially the S-Licks. Perhaps your
supple tyres will flex and roll over a piece of glass that would cut a harder tyre? Or maybe you
just do fewer miles on glass strewn cyclepaths than I do.

No, I do get a lot of cuts (with the Vittorias) - so many or so bad that I always have to chuck the
tyres before they're actually worn out. It's just that I reckon they happen immediately rather than
by objects sticking then gradually penetrating.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I doubt that's how they're actually happening - even if you regularly find embedded glass in
tyres. I reckon that glass went straight in as you went over it.

If I ride through a patch of glass, I'll often stop and check the tyres. Perhaps 1/3 of the time
I'll find something that's just started to penetrate. IME, it happens.

Ok, thats where our experience differs - maybe due to different tyres. However, I still suspect the
bits of glass would come off of their own accord anyway, rather than penetrate further, if they
could be scraped off by a tyre saver because I don't think tyre savers can remove anything that's
firmly embedded enough to hold on.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't think the tyre saver--a lightweight device not working with a massive load of pressure or
precision--won't manage to

[Sorry: incorrect double negative there]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

scrape it off after it has already penetrated enough to be a potential problem. They could be of
use if I (and Jobst Brandt) is wrong on that point.

I'm not about to make any assumptions as to whether you're right or wrong. Your arguments make
sense, but my experience is that the sort of punctures that tyre savers may prevent aren't
uncommon, and I've got nothing to lose by giving them a go. I don't think I've got the back one
close enough to the tyre to do any good, though. I'll have to work on that a bit more.

That's fair enough, good luck. I'm just keen not to raise hope sky high for people who haven't
already bought the things.

~PB

I get more punctures on the front than the rear, and it *seems* as though there are quite often
glass punctures which occur some considerable distance from where the original glass was
encountered. Whether tyre savers would help in these cases is questionable, but Jobst Brandt's
undeniable knowledge on the subject of wheels does not make him omnisicient in /all/ matter
pertaining to Bicycles and Their Ilk.

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Dave Larrington said:

I get more punctures on the front than the rear

That is definitely unusual: there must be a specific reason for it. Rear punctures are far more
common in general - in my experience with various kinds of tyres & cycling, other people's bikes
I've fixed, and from what I read.

Quoted message said:

, and it *seems* as though there are quite often glass punctures which occur some considerable
distance from where the original glass was encountered.

1. A tyre saver still might not have cought the glass in time.

2. Sometimes it takes a while to notice tyre has gone soft

3. You won't necessariliy have seen that particular bit of glass that caused the puncture. It may
have been unrelated to earlier glass.

Quoted message said:

Whether tyre savers would help in these cases is questionable, but Jobst Brandt's undeniable
knowledge on the subject of wheels does not make him omnisicient in /all/ matter pertaining to
Bicycles and Their Ilk.

I agree (and some of it is bizarre rubbish!) but he does often come up with bloody good arguments. I
only agree with him when the arguments make common-sense AND no-one else can put up any better
opposition AND when it corresponds to my own personal experience (when I've got any!:-)

BTW, Brandt's deep knowledge of bicycles goes much further than wheels. As much as I find his
attitude difficult, I reckon he is usually right.

~PB

Dave Larrington said:

Quoted message said:

I get more punctures on the front than the rear

to which Pete Biggs responded:

Quoted message said:

That is definitely unusual: there must be a specific reason for it.

Possibly because the weight is more evenly distributed between the wheels on a recumbent. I still
get more rear punctures than front on my Street Machine, but there's not a great deal of difference
between the number of front and the number of rear punctures.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
speedy5.freeserve.co.ukdannyOpen ↗
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

wasn't there a 'gadget' at one time which was suppposed to stop items embedding in tyres?

I saw a couple of Sacndinavians on PBP with 'flint catchers'?

Martyn Bolt said:

wasn't there a 'gadget' at one time which was suppposed to stop items embedding in tyres?

I saw a couple of Sacndinavians on PBP with 'flint catchers'?

Same thing, different name. They're also called 'nail pullers', according to Richard's New
Bicycle Book.

One reason that I've never got round to making a set before was that I imagined they might be a pig
to adjust. I seem to have been right. I've now got the back one close enough to the tyre that it
might have some effect, but it makes an horrendous noise when I spin the wheel :-(

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
speedy5.freeserve.co.ukdannyOpen ↗
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Danny Colyer said:

Possibly because the weight is more evenly distributed between the wheels on a recumbent.

But for the last six or so weeks I have been riding uprights... Since the Noo Yar, the P+nct+r+
Fairy has brought Sharp Things twice, both times to the front tyre. I've also blown up a front inner
tube after not seating the tyre properly and popped a rear one as the rim tape was off-centre,
allowing the tube to escape into the spoke hole.

Bah!

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Quoted message said:

seemed to be averaging about 2 a week. So I'm ready to try just about anything, short of Slime,
tyre liners or solid tyres.

What you need is for some kind relative to put slime in without your knowing.

I cannot now remember which of my tyres have it in.

TerryJ