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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
12 January 2004
Last activity
21 January 2004
Original author
Peter
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52
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  1. This used to be a NG dedicated to cardiological matters. All the present back biting and general OT
    chatter is making the NG indigestable!

    Please can we agree that prayer is simply wishing backed by the prayer's personal beliefs which
    need not be of any consequence to the person prayed for? There is no need for any further debate on
    this is there?

    Also, surely members of the NG can make up their own minds about the validity of information
    offered by contributors. Thank you to the professionals who give so much of their time to
    contributing to this NG.

    Let's get back to medical matters!

    Peter

  2. Peter said:

    This used to be a NG dedicated to cardiological matters. All the present back biting and general
    OT chatter is making the NG indigestable!

    Not to God-fearing folks.

    Quoted message said:


    Please can we agree that prayer is simply wishing backed by the prayer's personal beliefs which
    need not be of any consequence to the person prayed for? There is no need for any further debate
    on this is there?

    Who's debating?

    Quoted message said:


    Also, surely members of the NG can make up their own minds about the validity of information
    offered by contributors. Thank you to the professionals who give so much of their time to
    contributing to this NG.

    You are welcome.

    Quoted message said:


    Let's get back to medical matters!

    Been there.

    Quoted message said:


    Peter

    Thank you for your comments.

    Humbly,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

  3. Peter said:

    This used to be a NG dedicated to cardiological matters. All the present back biting and general OT
    chatter is making the NG indigestable!

    Please can we agree that prayer is simply wishing backed by the prayer's personal beliefs which
    need not be of any consequence to the person prayed for? There is no need for any further debate on
    this is there?

    Also, surely members of the NG can make up their own minds about the validity of information
    offered by contributors. Thank you to the professionals who give so much of their time to
    contributing to this NG.

    Let's get back to medical matters!

    Peter

    Nice try, but unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears. The participants get some sort of perverse
    pleasure from the incredibly off-topic banter.

    Best to just ignore it, if you can.

  4. In an attempt to avoid a long thread that is not directly connected with cardiology I have posted a
    bit of personal religious rambling on alt.gods

    Peter

    Peter said:

    This used to be a NG dedicated to cardiological matters. All the present back biting and general OT
    chatter is making the NG indigestable!

    Please can we agree that prayer is simply wishing backed by the prayer's personal beliefs which
    need not be of any consequence to the person prayed for? There is no need for any further debate on
    this is there?

    Also, surely members of the NG can make up their own minds about the validity of information
    offered by contributors. Thank you to the professionals who give so much of their time to
    contributing to this NG.

    Let's get back to medical matters!

    Peter

  5. "Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This used to be a NG dedicated to cardiological matters. All the present back biting and general
    OT chatter is making the NG indigestable!

    Please can we agree that prayer is simply wishing backed by the prayer's personal beliefs which
    need not be of any consequence to the person prayed for? There is no need for any further debate
    on this is there?

    Also, surely members of the NG can make up their own minds about the validity of information
    offered by contributors. Thank you to the professionals who give so much of their time to
    contributing to this NG.

    Let's get back to medical matters!

    Peter


    It is interesting to look at the years stats for this ng tinyurl.com2mled Derek.

  6. My last posting seems to have vanished so here is a paraphrase of it. In an attempt to reduce the
    chances of this thread becoming long and OT I have posted some ramblings of mine on alt.gods

    Peter

    Peter said:

    This used to be a NG dedicated to cardiological matters. All the present back biting and general OT
    chatter is making the NG indigestable!

    Please can we agree that prayer is simply wishing backed by the prayer's personal beliefs which
    need not be of any consequence to the person prayed for? There is no need for any further debate on
    this is there?

    Also, surely members of the NG can make up their own minds about the validity of information
    offered by contributors. Thank you to the professionals who give so much of their time to
    contributing to this NG.

    Let's get back to medical matters!

    Peter

  7. Peter said:

    This used to be a NG dedicated to cardiological matters. All the present back biting and general OT
    chatter is making the NG indigestable!

    www.forteinc. com

    Free. Works. Ignore/Read as you wish. Umgawwa.

    Quoted message said:

    Please can we agree that prayer is simply wishing backed by the prayer's personal beliefs which
    need not be of any consequence to the person prayed for? There is no need for any further debate on
    this is there?

    Are you not debating it as we speak?

    Quoted message said:

    Also, surely members of the NG can make up their own minds about the validity of information
    offered by contributors.

    The more info they have, the better they can discern.

    antwrp.gsfc.nasa.govap971110.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

  8. Peter <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>>>> Please can we agree that prayer is simply wishing backed by the


    prayer's personal beliefs which need not be of any consequence to the person prayed for?
    <<<<<<<<<<<

    A wish is like a hand wave to a blind man.

    Carol T

  9. Peter <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    My last posting seems to have vanished so here is a paraphrase of it. In an attempt to reduce the
    chances of this thread becoming long and OT I have posted some ramblings of mine on alt.gods

    Peter

    This thread was off topic from the outset as it started with the topic being "off topic postings."

    Truth is simple.

    Humbly,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

  10. Carol T said:

    Peter <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>>>>> Please can we agree that prayer is simply wishing backed by the


    prayer's personal beliefs which need not be of any consequence to the person prayed for?
    <<<<<<<<<<<

    A wish is like a hand wave to a blind man.

    ... or screen doors on a submarine :-)

    Humbly,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

  11. Volcanic Io M_un said:
    Peter said:

    This used to be a NG dedicated to cardiological matters. All the present back biting and general
    OT chatter is making the NG indigestable!

    www.forteinc. com

    Free. Works. Ignore/Read as you wish. Umgawwa.

    But it won't work to filter out M_unrocks. He changes his handle very often *precisely* for
    that reason.

    Pastorio

  12. Carol T said:

    Peter <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>>>>>Please can we agree that prayer is simply wishing backed by the


    prayer's personal beliefs which need not be of any consequence to the person prayed for?
    <<<<<<<<<<<

    A wish is like a hand wave to a blind man.

    Right. And a fish is like a finger wave to a bald man. Or something.

    Pastorio (doesn't need to make sense!)

  13. Bob Pastorio <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Right. And a fish is like a finger wave to a bald man. Or something.

    Pastorio (doesn't need to make sense!)

    Dear Bob, if you wave to a blind man, what does he see? This is what a wish is like. If you say a
    prayer for someone else, even behind closed doors, who hears?

    Carol T

  14. On 12 Jan 2004 05:51:46 -0800, [email hidden] (Carol T)

    Quoted message said:

    Bob Pastorio <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Right. And a fish is like a finger wave to a bald man. Or something.

    Pastorio (doesn't need to make sense!)

    Dear Bob, if you wave to a blind man, what does he see? This is what a wish is like. If you say a
    prayer for someone else, even behind closed doors, who hears?

    Carol T

    Your God?

    P

  15. Peter said:
    (Carol T) said:

    Bob Pastorio <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Right. And a fish is like a finger wave to a bald man. Or something.

    Pastorio (doesn't need to make sense!)

    Dear Bob, if you wave to a blind man, what does he see? This is what a wish is like. If you say a
    prayer for someone else, even behind closed doors, who hears?

    Carol T

    Your God?

    Some things are so obvious and needless to even mention that I thought I'd just let this one go.
    Your answer, of course, it the "correct" one. How sad that for Carol, there's no expression of
    generosity in a wish for someone else.

    Pastorio

  16. Bob Pastorio <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Bob Pastorio <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>> Some things are so obvious and needless to even mention that I


    thought

    Quoted message said:

    I'd just let this one go. Your answer, of course, it the "correct" one. How sad that for Carol,
    there's no expression of generosity in a wish for someone else.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    You could be a blind beggar in a street and I could throw you a penny, but what point would that be
    if I didn't stop to see the playing child pick it up to buy their sweets with. This is what a wish
    is like, an empty gesture made without any faith and the care we owe to others. Is this good enough
    for you Bob? I believe that you have more worth than an empty gesture from me or anyone else.

    A prayer, which unlike a wish, comes with a very generous price tag.

    Carol T

  17. (Carol T) said:

    A prayer, which unlike a wish, comes with a very generous price tag.

    ................

    I believe that prayers are appreciated by all. I know that I appreciate the fact that, for instance,
    Dr. Chung is praying for me. It is a wonderful, loving, and generous for Dr. Chung to do.

    But *TALKING* about praying for me on this newsgroup, which Dr. Chung *continues* to do despite my
    repeated requests that he desist, well THAT is an act of pure hostility.

    You know it.

    I know it.

    Dr. Chung knows it.

    God knows it.

    And all of Dr. Chung's double-talk and Christ-speak will not change the fact that God knows Dr.
    Chung is committing an act of hostility in His name. It is my sincere and fervent hope that Dr.
    Chung will realize that no matter where our differences may lie, it is an undeniable fact that Dr.
    Chung is committing an act of hostility in God's name, and he would be wise to stop doing so.

    smn

  18. Carol T said:

    Bob Pastorio <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Bob Pastorio <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>Some things are so obvious and needless to even mention that I


    thought I'd just let this one go. Your answer, of course, it the "correct" one. How sad that for
    Carol, there's no expression of generosity in a wish for someone else.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    You could be a blind beggar in a street and I could throw you a penny,

    Blind beggar? Throw me a penny?

    You do go on, and as you do it gets more vague and more serenely impenetrable. "Throwing" a
    beggar a penny is how you see sincere good wishes acted upon? I'd characterize it as parsimonious
    and uncaring.

    Quoted message said:

    but what point would that be if I didn't stop to see the playing child pick it up to buy their
    sweets with.

    What a perfectly silly thing to say. Throw a virtually valueless coin on the street and walk on as
    though something has been accomplished. How terribly aristocratic. As though responsibility ends
    with that careless dropping of nothing of value, a penny.

    If I wish someone a good day or a rich life or a happy experience with a new child, I'm expressing a
    quality of love for them. I'm telling them that they're important to me. I'm offering love to others
    as I am directed to love myself.

    And you can't grasp the idea that that penny so condescendingly "thrown" isn't a good wish at all.
    It's merely a gesture that has the ring of smugness and unconcern. True charity isn't merely
    offering castoffs and trivial amounts of money. One might consider the wisdom of a comment I read
    wherein a person was asked where they pray and the answer was "my garden." It might be considered
    that good wishes are a kind of prayer made substantial.

    Quoted message said:

    This is what a wish is like, an empty gesture made without any faith and the care we owe
    to others.

    Wait. Do I understand you to be saying that *only* praying for them has any validity? That anything
    else is empty and meaningless? That a well-meant hug for someone in pain is pointless? That a shared
    tear has no meaning? That fervently hoping that a child live a rich life is without merit?

    That doing corporal acts of mercy has no value? That comforting the sick is pointless and empty?
    That wishing people not to be hungry and acting to make that real is somehow bad? That giving old
    and specifically-bought clothing and other goods to Goodwill and Salvation Army and other charities
    is not worthwhile?

    Quoted message said:

    Is this good enough for you Bob?

    In a word, no. No, it isn't. Life can be tough for many people. Comforting and helping with their
    difficulties is an important aspect of my life. I wish they could have less strife and stress and
    then I do something to make that wish corporeal.

    Quoted message said:

    I believe that you have more worth than an empty gesture from me or anyone else.

    I'm saddened by your rejection of human warmth and familial or collegial affection. I'm appalled by
    the coldness of your position. I'm shocked at the lack of love and any offering of it directly. I
    guess that "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" isn't that important in your value
    set. It is in mine.

    Quoted message said:

    A prayer, which unlike a wish, comes with a very generous price tag.

    As though there's prayer and nothing else...

    Pastorio

  19. Stephen Nagler said:
    (Carol T) said:

    A prayer, which unlike a wish, comes with a very generous price tag.

    ................

    I believe that prayers are appreciated by all. I know that I appreciate the fact that, for
    instance, Dr. Chung is praying for me. It is a wonderful, loving, and generous for Dr.
    Chung to do.

    But *TALKING* about praying for me on this newsgroup, which Dr. Chung *continues* to do despite my
    repeated requests that he desist, well THAT is an act of pure hostility.

    You know it.

    Unlikely.

    Quoted message said:


    I know it.

    You *believe* it.

    Quoted message said:


    Dr. Chung knows it.

    I don't.

    Quoted message said:


    God knows it.

    God knows that I bear you no ill will and that I ask that He help you accept His Son as your Lord
    and Savior.

    Humbly,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

  20. On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:51:27 GMT, Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    But *TALKING* about praying for me on this newsgroup, which Dr. Chung *continues* to do despite my
    repeated requests that he desist, well THAT is an act of pure hostility.

    You're weird.

    Quoted message said:

    You know it.

    I know it.

    Dr. Chung knows it.

    God knows it.

    Specifically, what is it that you think you know that God knows?

    Quoted message said:

    And all of Dr. Chung's double-talk and Christ-speak will not change the fact that God knows Dr.
    Chung is committing an act of hostility in His name.

    Did God tell you this or did you talk to Jesus yourself?

    Quoted message said:

    It is my sincere and fervent hope that Dr. Chung will realize that no matter where our differences
    may lie, it is an undeniable fact that Dr. Chung is committing an act of hostility in God's name,
    and he would be wise to stop doing so.

    Taking spiritual advice from the eternally damned is damn full of problems.

    antwrp.gsfc.nasa.govap010301.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

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