Maximum strength and cycling performance

POGATA said:

Laurens ten Dam wasting his time/energy in the gym, or confusing his competitors, or promoting a chain of gyms etc.

Pogata showing yet again he has no understanding of the high performance process and is prepared to settle for evidence such as "some pros do it so we all should". Amusing!

fergie said:

Pogata showing yet again he has no understanding of the high performance process and is prepared to settle for evidence such as "some pros do it so we all should". Amusing!

This text sums it up well:

The maximum power occurs when the force pushing on the pedals multiplied by the speed of the pedals is greatest.

For example, if the cyclist applies a force of 150 newtons to the pedals (150N is the force needed to lift a 15kg mass) and the speed of the pedals in a circle is 2 metres per second (2m/s), the pedalling power output of the cyclist is:

Pedalling power = force on pedals x speed of pedals
= 150N x 2m/s
= 300W

This is the same power as lifting a 30kg mass upwards a height of 1 metre every second.

ambal said:

This text sums it up well:

The maximum power occurs when the force pushing on the pedals multiplied by the speed of the pedals is greatest.

For example, if the cyclist applies a force of 150 newtons to the pedals (150N is the force needed to lift a 15kg mass) and the speed of the pedals in a circle is 2 metres per second (2m/s), the pedalling power output of the cyclist is:

Pedalling power = force on pedals x speed of pedals
= 150N x 2m/s
= 300W

This is the same power as lifting a 30kg mass upwards a height of 1 metre every second.

That's a good illustration. I use 175mm crank arms, so 2 m/sec pedal speed translates to 109 rpm, a decent high-power cadence. The actual conversion factor from kg-force to newtons is 9.8, your illustration uses 10 which makes for ease of calculation. Newtons are handy because they translate directly to power.....just multiply newtons by velocity (meters/second) and you've got watts.

What all this implies of course is that we need to train to produce decent force at high velocity and high repetitions to achieve useful power output (and speed) on the bike. Being able to do a 400 lb squat for a few reps just doesn't translate into being able to sprint at 35 mph on a bike....for all kinds of reasons.

Ha. The thread that never dies. Strength training has many benefits, but long term endurance isn't one of them. I've found the best strength training option that won't affect cycling performance as much is body weight training. It becomes self-limiting. Because resistance generally increases as you get heavier, there is a natural inclination towards staying leaner. With pure resistance training, getting bigger and heavier means you lift heavier weights-- other factors remaining constant.

Conversely, no reputable trainer on a lifting/ strength training site is advocating long distance cycling to increase performance in those areas. Why do we endurance athletes struggle with the same concept.

dhk2 said:

That's a good illustration. I use 175mm crank arms, so 2 m/sec pedal speed translates to 109 rpm, a decent high-power cadence. The actual conversion factor from kg-force to newtons is 9.8, your illustration uses 10 which makes for ease of calculation. Newtons are handy because they translate directly to power.....just multiply newtons by velocity (meters/second) and you've got watts.

What all this implies of course is that we need to train to produce decent force at high velocity and high repetitions to achieve useful power output (and speed) on the bike. Being able to do a 400 lb squat for a few reps just doesn't translate into being able to sprint at 35 mph on a bike....for all kinds of reasons.

Andre Greipel running to a gym and back, or wasting his time/energy in the gym, or confusing his competitors, or promoting a chain of gyms etc.

Title of the thread says "maximal strength", let's not forget that. Max. strength doesn't necessarily correlate with improved performance in cyclical events of this nature. Verkhoshansky would be very annoyed if anyone said otherwise!

POGATA said:

Andre Greipel running to a gym and back, or wasting his time/energy in the gym, or confusing his competitors, or promoting a chain of gyms etc.

Pogata yet again confusing what an individual athlete does as confirmation that we should all do it.

Conclusive evidence that we should all do special core training because Peter Sagan is the World Champion so what is good for him must be good for us🙄

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-starts-his-winter-training-with-specialist-core-workouts-in-belgium/

I'm surprised people still use the term "core" in a non-ironic way. Actually, I think sometimes these articles about an athlete's training are actually concocted precisely to throw competitors off their scent. Maybe if Sagan said he rides on sand for 3 hours each morning other people will try it and he'll suddenly find he's winning even more races than before.....

Edvald Boasson Hagen wasting his time/energy in the gym, or confusing his competitors, or promoting a chain of gyms etc.

Quoted post said:

At 28-åringen leverte en tempoetappe fra øverste hylle forklarer treneren med iherdig jobbing i styrkerommet i samarbeid med Olympiatoppen.

– Sky tonet veldig ned styrkefokuset. De ville heller at han skulle gå ned i vekt og være lettere i fjellet. Vi har fokusert på å få ham tilbake der han skal være: Han har blitt sterkere i beina, fått mer muskelmasse og kjører bedre på tempo

http://www.procycling.no/at-han-og-cavendish-tuller-er-ikke-et-spill-for-galleriet/

Translation:
'That the 28 -year-old delivered a time trial from the top shelf explains coach with persistent work in the gym in collaboration with Olympiatoppen.

- Sky toned down the strength focus. They would rather that he should lose weight and be better in the mountains. We have focused on getting him back where he should be: he has become stronger in the legs, gained more muscle mass and is better at TTs'

Pogata yet again confusing anecdotal information with real evidence. Media reports are not evidence of anything!

fergie said:

Pogata yet again confusing anecdotal information with real evidence. Media reports are not evidence of anything!

Perhaps you don't understand how science works. To prove a theory - that gym training does not work, requires a vast amount of proof. To disprove a theory only requires one counter example.

And to prove that gym training has never been helpful is impossible.

https://www.instagram.com/p/9gKUdJTBrj/?hl=en

Another pro cyclist wasting his time/energy in the gym, or confusing his competitors, or promoting a chain of gyms etc.

Quoted post said:

– Det er godt med litt nye ideer på treningen. Jeg har også begynt med styrketrening. Jeg har trent en del knebøy, ettbeins-bøy og benkepress. De øvelsene kjører jeg også under sesongen. Det er helt nytt for meg og effekten har vært bra. Jeg har trent vekter før, men kuttet det ut under sesongen. Nå føler jeg mer trøkk i beina og fått det bekreftet på wattmåleren. Det er viktig å prøve nye ting

Quoted post said:

- It is well with some new ideas on training. I also started with strength training. I have trained some squats, single-leg-bend and bench press. The exercises I run well during the season. It's completely new to me and the effect has been good. I have trained weights before but cut it out during the season. Now I feel more punch in my legs and got it confirmed the watt meter. It's important to try new things.

http://www.procycling.no/lunke-satt-pa-styrkeprogram-ogsa-sesongen/

Another pro cyclist wasting his time/energy in the gym, or confusing his competitors, or promoting a chain of gyms etc.

Yet another pro cyclist wasting his time/energy in the gym, or confusing his competitors, or promoting a chain of gyms etc.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/boonen-and-kittel-work-on-their-speed-at-team-camp-gallery/

Pogata the fan boy mistaking a photo with no context, and the ludicrous photo tag of "work on their speed" with real evidence for strength training improving endurance and now thanks to some bad reporting from cyclingnews their speed.

But then considering what strength and conditioning coaches get paid on National and Pro teams I can see why they proclaim that all should strength train.

Another pro cyclist wasting his time/energy in the gym, or confusing his competitors, or promoting a chain of gyms etc.

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[INDENT]http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peter-sagan-shows-how-he-boosts-his-power-with-gym-work/#disqus_thread[/INDENT]

POGATA said:

Another pro cyclist wasting his time/energy in the gym, or confusing his competitors, or promoting a chain of gyms etc.

[INDENT]twitter.com1003681797765509120Open ↗[/INDENT]

[INDENT]http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peter-sagan-shows-how-he-boosts-his-power-with-gym-work/#disqus_thread[/INDENT]

Pogata repeating himself, getting lazy by cut and pasting, and using people he has used before, posting months, or years apart in this case, not keeping up with the literature that questions most of the current research on the benefits, or lack of, from weight training on cycling performance. Wow, big old pro peloton and you have bugger all examples.

So with that being that case, could I win three world championships if I could repeat the awesomeness in the gym recently posted by Peter Sagan?

In jest...

... but to be fair, what he posted was effing awesome.

What he posted makes Peter the awesome guy that he is. Does it make him any faster? Maybe not. Does it make it less susceptible to injuries or anything that detracts from his time that he can train. Maybe. Maybe not.

No doubting that.