Ciocc

"[censored]" <dickwise@ no-spam adelphia.net> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Ciocc, Could someone tell me the proper pronuncation of this frame. Thanks

chee-och

censored said:

Ciocc, Could someone tell me the proper pronuncation of this frame. Thanks

Choach...

THink 'CH' plus 'oach' as in coach.
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"[censored]" <dickwise@ no-spam adelphia.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ciocc, Could someone tell me the proper pronuncation of this frame. Thanks

A friend who owns a bike shop told me it's "Choke."

Bob C.

Isn't it highly unusual for Italian nouns to end in a consonant, much less a double consonant? Makes
me wonder if the name hasn't been shortened from something else.

Joe

censored Wise said:

Ciocc, Could someone tell me the proper pronunciation of this frame.

As you can see, it is Italian and has a German umlaut over the O which leads me to believe the name
came from South Tyrol or Alto Adige as the Italians call it. Here German and Italian are mixed in
names as is the language. In that vein, I assume the name is pronounced as "ch-oe-ck" the "oe" being
a sound not found in English (or Italian for that matter) so it is hard to transmit. Ask any German
speaking person about the sound. The closest we have is "er" as in jerk, which vaguely rhymes with
Ci?cc. Its the vowel sound not the "r" in jerk that rhymes.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

"[censored]" <dickwise@ no-spam adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ciocc, Could someone tell me the proper pronuncation of this frame. Thanks

Dear [censored],

This may shed light on your question:

"I must confess that when I bought my Italian CIOCC bicycle about 15 years ago I really thought I
was hot stuff as this had been reputed to be the BMW of Italian frames - until, that is, I ran into
an Italian journalist for an Italian cycling magazine while doing the 'Ride the Rockies.' I know
that the word CIOCC in the Italian language makes no sense whatever so I asked this guy, who spoke
almost no English, if he knew the origin of the name of my fine bicycle. His response was a real
letdown. In Italian phonetics this would be pronounced somewhat like the English word 'joke.'"
aabts.org0303newsletter.shtmlOpen ↗

Elsewhere, reversing the sounds of "coach" to "choke" is a popular suggestion.

In practice, "ciocc" is pronounced like "Paris"--in whatever manner seems most likely to annoy your
audience, be they Parisians or trailer-court trash.

'Course, 'round these parts, pardner, folks mostly say, "Chowch!" like whatcha eat fer dinner mixed
with "Ouch!"

Carl Fogel

censored said:

Ciocc, Could someone tell me the proper pronuncation of this frame.

One syllable, rhymes with roach, same phoneme on both ends

And that's a man's name.
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:42:59 -0800, Joe Cipale <[email hidden]> may

have said:

censored said:

Ciocc, Could someone tell me the proper pronuncation of this frame. Thanks

Choach...

THink 'CH' plus 'oach' as in coach.

cc = k, as in foccacia.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Joseph Kubera said:

Isn't it highly unusual for Italian nouns to end in a consonant, much less a double consonant?
Makes me wonder if the name hasn't been shortened from something else.

Tell that to Eduardo Weber. There's no double-dotted 'o' [alt-148]in Italian, either.

Ciocc is not a noun, it's a name and names are not subject to any language rules.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[email hidden] (Joseph Kubera) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Isn't it highly unusual for Italian nouns to end in a consonant, much less a double consonant?
Makes me wonder if the name hasn't been shortened from something else.

Joe

I've read that Ciocc is a nickname coming from an Italian dialect - Val d'Aosta if I remember
correctly. I think it means "poker face".

Scott-

psycholist-<< A friend who owns a bike shop told me it's "Choke." >><BR><BR>

Does he also sell washing machines?..it ain't 'choke', it's choach..like coach with a ch.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

censored said:

Ciocc, Could someone tell me the proper pronuncation of this frame.

One syllable, rhymes with roach, same phoneme on both ends

And that's a man's name.

Name (as in first name? last name?) or nickname? I did a little googling to refresh my memory, and
it does seem it is a "nickname" from an Italian dialect (Val D'Aosta, meaning "poker face".) See
classicrendezvous.comCiocc.htmOpen ↗ for one man's explanation.

If this is true, all we need do is find someone from Val D'Aosta and we can have a definitive answer
instead of responses from those that are repeating what they've been told.

Scott-

[email hidden] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

psycholist-<< A friend who owns a bike shop told me it's "Choke." >><BR><BR>

Does he also sell washing machines?..it ain't 'choke', it's choach..like coach with a ch.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Would selling washing machines change the reliability of his answer?

For someone so sure of his answer ("it ain't 'choke', it's coach"😉, I hope you know Giovanni
Pellizzoli personally. Or perhaps you can help me save my hopes for something more valuable and
share why you're so sure of your answer.

Scott-

Scott said:

If this is true, all we need do is find someone from Val D'Aosta and we can have a definitive
answer instead of responses from those that are repeating what they've been told.

You just wait, and I'll pop out the answer.

Sergio Pisa

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Sergio Servadio

BOn 28 Dec 2003 said:

If this is true, all we need do is find someone from Val D'Aosta and we can have a definitive
answer instead of responses from those that are repeating what they've been told.

You just wait, and I'll pop out the answer.

Sergio Pisa [/B]

Ciocc pronounced choach like Peter et al. have said.
My first crit bike <sigh> Mod San Cristobal.

OK, my reference is from a bike magazine (can't remember which one) that did a review of one many years ago when I still owned my Ciocc. The article had a section on the pronunciation (choach)and the meaning of the word. The founder of the company (Pellizolli? sounds familiar but I'm not sure and I never could read that signature on the top tube) told the authors of the article that it was a nickname for his father in the Bergamo dialect, sort of like "pappy" or "pops". I remember that the article said he chuckled every time he slapped on the decal because it was like an inside joke. The marketing department at Ciocc (small as it may be) probably enjoys the pronunciation confusion. I've never met anyone who spoke Bergamo but the Italians I've asked say that the pronunciation rules for Italian would only be partially applicable to Bergamo which is spoken almost exclusively by oldsters in the region at the base of the Alps north of Milan.

DiabloScott said:

Quoted message said:

Scott said:

If this is true, all we need do is find someone from Val D'Aosta an=

d

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

we can have a definitive answer instead of responses from those tha=

t

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are repeating what they've been told.

You just wait, and I'll pop out the answer. Sergio Pisa

Ciocc pronounced choach like Peter et al. have said. My first crit bike <sigh> Mod San Cristobal.

I don't believe that to be correct.=20 If pronounced as 'choach' the -oa- would sound as in 'c-oa-
ch'; I would strongly favor it as in 'l-o-t', instead.

The ending c's I think should be like in 'lo-ck', less likely as in 'chur-ch'. Which one, and why?
It is certainly an abbreviation and no one can tell for sure not knowing what it is from.

By the way, the lovely city of Bergamo is nowhere near Valle d'Aosta.

Quoted message said:

I've never met anyone who spoke Bergamo but the
Italians I've asked say that the pronunciation
rules for Italian would only be partially
applicable to Bergamo which is spoken almost
exclusively by oldsters in the region at the
base of the Alps north of Milan.

No problem to ask my good friend Fulvio, who is from Bergamo, if needed. Up there they speak a real
dialect, impossible to understand for someone from anywhere else.=20 So, it is not really a matter
of pronounciation; if anything, it should be traced to a very specific local name.

So, here we go with the experts' answers I got, from people living in Valle d'Aosta.

Sergio Pisa ___________________________________________________________________________= _

From=20alberto.vaghi Mon Dec 29 17:27:24 2003 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:12:44 +0100 Subject: Re:
Urgente: Ciocc.

Quoted message said:

Al primo che mi risponde tanti speciali ringraziamenti. A tutti, comunque sia, i migiori Auguri
per il Nuovo Anno. Domanda: qual e' l'origine del nome CIOCC (la marca di telai)?

Non ne ho idea. Per=F2 sul loro sito www.ciocc.it ci sono degli indirizzi e-mail a cui contattarli.
Prova direttamente con loro.

Ciao Alberto
___________________________________________________________________________
From=20brianw_tomlin Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:04:40 +0000 Subject: RE: Urgente: Ciocc.

me l'avevo gi=E0 chiesto una volta Jobst... Per quanto mi risulta, Ciocc era il nomignolo di un
artigiano costruttore d= i=20 biciclette. Il marchio e' stato successivamente rilevato dalla
Nuova Conti=
=20
ed ha avuto un discreto successo sul mercato statunitense. Le bici non sono=
=20
comunque niente di speciale. Ciao Brian

Sergio SERVADIO said:

I don't believe that to be correct. If pronounced as 'choach' the -oa- would sound as in 'c-oa-ch';
I would strongly favor it as in 'l-o-t', instead.

The ending c's I think should be like in 'lo-ck', less likely as in 'chur-ch'. Which one, and why?
It is certainly an abbreviation and no one can tell for sure not knowing what it is from.

I believe it derives from "ciuccio"; Neapolitan slang for donkey, or in this case, more likely
"jackass" (further euphemised to "joker" for retelling the corporate history).

As used as an all-purpose, mildly derisive slur used to describe a person, the word corrupted into a
single syllable (pronounced "chooch"😉. See one use of the word from Mario Puzo (The Godfather) in
the account here (middle of the page): randomhouse.comspeaks2.htmlOpen ↗

"Ciocc" I believe is the attempt to phonetically spell the corrupted form of the word as pronounced
in the Italian of the region, which may be closer to "choach".
-------------------------------
John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Now in our twenty-first year. Our catalog of track
equipment: eighth year online. businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗

I said:

"Ciocc" I believe is the attempt to phonetically spell the corrupted form of the word as pronounced
in the Italian of the region, which may be closer to "choach".

Sorry, that should read ..."closer to "chyoach"."
-------------------------------
John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Now in our twenty-first year. Our catalog of track
equipment: eighth year online. businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗

John Dacey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sergio SERVADIO said:

I don't believe that to be correct. If pronounced as 'choach' the -oa- would sound as in 'c-oa-
ch'; I would strongly favor it as in 'l-o-t', instead.

The ending c's I think should be like in 'lo-ck', less likely as in 'chur-ch'. Which one, and
why? It is certainly an abbreviation and no one can tell for sure not knowing what it is from.

I believe it derives from "ciuccio"; Neapolitan slang for donkey, or in this case, more likely
"jackass" (further euphemised to "joker" for retelling the corporate history).

Naples? What makes you say that? I'm curious why a frame maker would want to name their products
after a jackass.

Quoted message said:

As used as an all-purpose, mildly derisive slur used to describe a person, the word corrupted into
a single syllable (pronounced "chooch"😉. See one use of the word from Mario Puzo (The Godfather)
in the account here (middle of the page): randomhouse.comspeaks2.htmlOpen ↗

Why would Puzo have insight into this? I know his parents were born in Italy, but wasn't Mario
born in NY?

Quoted message said:

"Ciocc" I believe is the attempt to phonetically spell the corrupted form of the word as
pronounced in the Italian of the region, which may be closer to "choach".

But you're saying it's the Naples dialect not the Val d'Aosta dialect?

Thanks for the perspective... but we still don't have anything "definitive". I sent an e-mail off to
the Ciocc company when this thread first started - no response as of yet.