L5 or Threshold intervals

Oh, you need to do a little of both! I would spend time each week on short (30sec-2min) intervals that are above your LT. Also incorporate some longer (20min) threshold intervals into your weekly training plan.

Think about it, you will need to able to attack/accelerate (short efforts above LT) and also to maintain a constant effort (threshold training). Incorporate these workouts into your routine and you'll be fine.

Just don't forget about recovery days, proper nutrition/hydration, and tapering before your event!

Given the information you've provided on the events you are competing in, I'd strongly suggest skipping the < 3min intervals (aka L6), and focusing on solid L4 & L5.

Keep in mind that your anaerobic work capacity is a savings account of sorts, a limited one at that. The closer you ride to your threshold power, the more you start drawing from that account. When you ride above your threshold, such as when responding to attacks, you then are making big withdrawals from your anaerobic bank.

Anaerobic glycolysis (the method by which the body produces ATP w/o oxygen) is a potent process and is like a turbo boost - lots of energy available in a very short time. The problem is that this is ~17-19x less efficient than the aerobic process, in terms of ATP production per glycogen. It should be obvious that you'll burn through your energy reserves far more quickly, the more anaerobically you ride - or put more directly, the lower your FTP.

Another interesting point is that you can replenish some, but not all, of that anaerobic bank in a reasonably short period. And what is it that establishes the rate of replenishment of anaerobic stores? Your aerobic fitness of course.

The ideal approach should be clear: get your threshold/sustainable power/FTP as high as possible. That means emphasizing long L4 intervals and L5 training.

It is easy to think that because one got dropped on a 5 minute climb or attack in the midst of a long ride or race, that it is therefore due to a limitation in anaerobic power. Typically it is quite the opposite and indicative of insufficient aerobic fitness to keep pace with those ahead of you.

Thank you for your advises. I will start working on my threshold and when my event is near i will start doing some VO2 intervals to peak for my event.
In 2 months from now if i do specific threshold workouts should i be able to gain 5-10watss?

pinkpanther said:

Hi guys

I'm training for road racing that last 3hours. In those races there a lot of hard accelerations and some steep hills that need a very good VO2 power to climb with the first group.
What i would like to ask is should i train to build my threshold power for these races or to train more at vo2 and anaerobic power to survive the attacks?
I will apreciate any help since my important race is 2 months away.

If you have an indoor trainer, i suggest having a try of the Fight Club video from the sufferfest

Cycling Workout Video Downloads | The Sufferfest

This video is pretty damn good, starts off with a warm up, then you speed up & do some time trials, in the middle of all this though, you have attacks u need to keep up with.
So this vid would defintely help you in getting some of the extra power and threshold gain you want.

Great response DM. I'd also add that when in a long event with those inefficient anaerobic intervals you described, our abillity to "refuel" in order to maintain blood sugar/glycogen levels can become a limiting factor. EG, if a rider is able to replace a maximum of 300 kcal/hr by digesting high-CHO sport drinks, gels and foods, but is burning 1000-1500 kcal/hr or more via the high-intensity efforts, at some point the glycogen storage in the muscles, blood and liver will drop, lowering blood sugar levels and signaling the end of the fun.

The above just reinforces your point that raising the aerobic threshold power is the key, since it allows us to conserve vital gylcogen supplies better. Also the source of the mantra for mountain century or ultra riders: "don't go anaerobic". I've found that to be very good advice, which of course is easier to follow for those with higher aerobic power output.

dhk2 said:

Great response DM. I'd also add that when in a long event with those inefficient anaerobic intervals you described, our abillity to "refuel" in order to maintain blood sugar/glycogen levels can become a limiting factor. EG, if a rider is able to replace a maximum of 300 kcal/hr by digesting high-CHO sport drinks, gels and foods, but is burning 1000-1500 kcal/hr or more via the high-intensity efforts, at some point the glycogen storage in the muscles, blood and liver will drop, lowering blood sugar levels and signaling the end of the fun.

The above just reinforces your point that raising the aerobic threshold power is the key, since it allows us to conserve vital gylcogen supplies better. Also the source of the mantra for mountain century or ultra riders: "don't go anaerobic". I've found that to be very good advice, which of course is easier to follow for those with higher aerobic power output.

Thanks Dhk ;-)

Quite correct on all points. Basically the longer you exercise/ride, the more there is a shift in fuel source from stored (but finite) glycogen in your muscles to that which is delivered via food intake.

Take home message: 'eat before you are hungry & drink before you are thirsty.'

DancenMacabre said:

Given the information you've provided on the events you are competing in, I'd strongly suggest skipping the < 3min intervals (aka L6), and focusing on solid L4 & L5.

Keep in mind that your anaerobic work capacity is a savings account of sorts, a limited one at that. The closer you ride to your threshold power, the more you start drawing from that account. When you ride above your threshold, such as when responding to attacks, you then are making big withdrawals from your anaerobic bank.

Anaerobic glycolysis (the method by which the body produces ATP w/o oxygen) is a potent process and is like a turbo boost - lots of energy available in a very short time. The problem is that this is ~17-19x less efficient than the aerobic process, in terms of ATP production per glycogen. It should be obvious that you'll burn through your energy reserves far more quickly, the more anaerobically you ride - or put more directly, the lower your FTP.

Another interesting point is that you can replenish some, but not all, of that anaerobic bank in a reasonably short period. And what is it that establishes the rate of replenishment of anaerobic stores? Your aerobic fitness of course.

The ideal approach should be clear: get your threshold/sustainable power/FTP as high as possible. That means emphasizing long L4 intervals and L5 training.

It is easy to think that because one got dropped on a 5 minute climb or attack in the midst of a long ride or race, that it is therefore due to a limitation in anaerobic power. Typically it is quite the opposite and indicative of insufficient aerobic fitness to keep pace with those ahead of you.

Wow! I've been lurking for more than 3 years and I can't remember too many times when I've seen a better and more thorough answer to a question that hasn't come from the forum heavy weights such as: Rmurphy, Dave, RapDO, AC, Alex et la. I love your work Dancen. Chapeau 😎

Ade Merckx said:

Wow! I've been lurking for more than 3 years and I can't remember too many times when I've seen a better and more thorough answer to a question that hasn't come from the forum heavy weights such as: Rmurphy, Dave, RapDO, AC, Alex et la. I love your work Dancen. Chapeau 😎

Lol, you need to get out more 😉

lol...thanks for the tip, I've just started getting out on the bike again

Ade Merckx said:

Wow! I've been lurking for more than 3 years and I can't remember too many times when I've seen a better and more thorough answer to a question that hasn't come from the forum heavy weights such as: Rmurphy, Dave, RapDO, AC, Alex et la. I love your work Dancen. Chapeau 😎

Those are some hella sharp gents you are talking about, so thanks Ade. 😉

Apologies to the OP for the thread drift: just blatantly soaking up my 15 minutes of CF fame...😎

DancenMacabre said:

Given the information you've provided on the events you are competing in, I'd strongly suggest skipping the < 3min intervals (aka L6), and focusing on solid L4 & L5.

So I wouldn't completely suggest that, whilst aerobic fitness is hugely important, and building it is invaluable, if you do no training at L6 you may have no problem covering individual attacks as you use your aerobic strength to close the gaps slowly. But this longer duration efforts to get back to a wheel will cost you. And you'll have little chance of instigating any attacks yourself or going with an actual winning break - as you'll be pulling everyone else up.

And whilst anaerobic repleshiment is impacted by aerobic fitness - you can't replenish when you don't have any oxygen, it's not the only trainable thing so some L6 training would be useful.

Of course it all depends on the power profile of the actual individual and what their actual aims and expectations are. There's certainly absolutely nothing wrong with building threshold, it can't possibly hurt.