Upgrading an old steel bike...

(Y(L|5T said:

I have an '88 Trek 360 steel road bike that was given to me a long time ago. It has been in the rafters of my garage for 12+years. I'm going to rebuild it and upgrading the whole drivetrain to new 105 or Campy Veloce 10. In thinking about this project I had a few questions:

1. Has the width of between the dropouts (front & rear) remained the same so I can just drop ing the new wheelset?

2. What should I do About the shifter bosses on the down tube when I switch the the new STI/Ergo levers/shifters?

3. Will I encounter any problems fit-wise at the bottom bracket?

4. Any other issues that I may run into?

Sorry for asking these questions without actually measuring and researching further, but I just started thinking about this project. There seems to be a lot of knowledgable people here that may be able to answer my questions rather easily.

Oh, and the reason I want to do this project is for fun. Plus I like the feel of a steel-framed bike. I have an '87 Trek 560 Pro but I will restore that w/ all its original components. I'm also actually in the market to buy a "modern" bike too with a budget of $1500-2000(US).

Thanks. 😎

Restoring an old bike can be fun - also makes for a great foul weather bike so you can keep your new bike in great condition.

The switch in rear dropout widths was sometime around 1988 - if your bike has an 8 speed cassette then you've got 130mm and that's today's standard for road bikes so you won't have any problems at all. If you've got a 7-speed you probably have 126mm spacing so you could force the rear a little bit to squeeze in the wheel or have it professionally spread since it's steel. Fronts have been the same spacing essentially forever.

An STI conversion kit will have some cable guides that screw into your shifter bosses - very slick and clean.

You'll probably have to change your bottom bracket to match your crank - they went low profile about this time also so new cranks on old BBs sometimes won't work because the derailleur won't be in the right place. It's a good idea to change the BB anyway - you won't have any problems finding one that'll work.

Nice project

Another thing you might encounter problems with is the distance from the brake mounting bolt to the actual rim. Modern brakes are much closer (tighter tollerences) so you might need to find "long reach calipers". This was done to provide clearance for fenders. Hope this helps and makes sense - good luck! 🙂

I'll be getting a new BB with the crankset so it should just fit right in? I'm assumimg BB's haven't changed much either. Just make sure it's english, right?

Yeah, when I'm done with the bike, it'll definitely be a good foul weather bike. I'll have no excuse not to ride then. But I'll also ride it just for fun and to change it up some.

it's definitely fun to fix up an old bike, especially if it's a favourite -- some bikes can be almost transformed with a new carbon fork and new wheels. It's a nice feeling having an 80s bike flying along, matching it with all the fancy new bikes. 🙂

BUT....... this question comes up often, and if you're going to buy a whole groupset and new wheels, the general consensus is that it's often cheaper to buy a complete, new, mass-produced bike. If you also find yourself tempted to get a new headset, bars, stem and fork, there's another few hundred dollars. Anyway, it's up to you 🙂

If you search this forum, or others, you'll find the 'spacing' question answered quite a few times. For memory, there's some conjecture: some say just ram the 130mm wheel in there, and others suggest getting the frame profesionally spread.

Bottom bracket threads haven't changed since 1988, and yours should be English.

You can get STI cable stops that screw right into the downtube bosses, and they look pretty good.

Fat Hack said:

BUT....... this question comes up often, and if you're going to buy a whole groupset and new wheels, the general consensus is that it's often cheaper to buy a complete, new, mass-produced bike. If you also find yourself tempted to get a new headset, bars, stem and fork, there's another few hundred dollars. Anyway, it's up to you 🙂

If you search this forum, or others, you'll find the 'spacing' question answered quite a few times. For memory, there's some conjecture: some say just ram the 130mm wheel in there, and others suggest getting the frame profesionally spread.

This fixer-upper is a just little fun project that I'm doing. Thought it would be cool to do. Actually got the idea in another forum. I am in the market to buy a new bike with a budget of $1500-2000(US) (looking at Felt f75, Jamis Ventura Elite, Trek 2200, pedalforce.com and probikekit.com plus others). If I upgrade my old bike, then I may have to reduce my new bike budget to 1200-1500.

I do currently have a 7sp so as far as the rear spacing, I'd just assume jam it in there if it is just 2mm on each side. Steel should be fine being forced tight, right? 😕

(Y(L|5T said:

This fixer-upper is a just little fun project that I'm doing. Thought it would be cool to do. Actually got the idea in another forum. I am in the market to buy a new bike with a budget of $1500-2000(US) (looking at Felt f75, Jamis Ventura Elite, Trek 2200, pedalforce.com and probikekit.com plus others). If I upgrade my old bike, then I may have to reduce my new bike budget to 1200-1500.

I do currently have a 7sp so as far as the rear spacing, I'd just assume jam it in there if it is just 2mm on each side. Steel should be fine being forced tight, right? 😕

I might suggest that for a foul weather, second bike, that you could save a little on costs by doing a mix of lower end components in there in the less essential parts to save a few dollars. For shimano, you could do a Tiagra/105 mix or for Campagnolo, a mirage/Veloce mix. 9s is also quite a bit cheaper than 10s these days.

No problem spreading that rear triangle the 4mm to accomodate the 130mm rear wheel. It will be a bit tight and will interfere with rapid wheel changes, but will work fine. You could get a shop to permanently spread the frame, but I wouldn't bother. I have a 1983 steel Trek with 126mm spacing and a 130mm rear wheel (Veloce/mirage 9s triple mix used for commuting/bad weather) and everything works perfectly.

John M said:

I might suggest that for a foul weather, second bike, that you could save a little on costs by doing a mix of lower end components in there in the less essential parts to save a few dollars. For shimano, you could do a Tiagra/105 mix or for Campagnolo, a mirage/Veloce mix. 9s is also quite a bit cheaper than 10s these days.

I'm looking at purchasing another road bike too. I originally set the budget to $2000(US) max for it. But now I may need to reduce it so I can upgrade my old one. I did a bit of 'window shopping' online and I can get a Tiagra/105 mix, levers, brakes, R500 wheelset/tires/tubes and new seat for under $500. So your suggestion makes perfect sense to me and I will certainly look into mixing components. Thanks for the suggestion 😎.

(Y(L|5T said:

I have an '88 Trek 360 steel road bike that was given to me a long time ago. It has been in the rafters of my garage for 12+years. I'm going to rebuild it and upgrading the whole drivetrain to new 105 or Campy Veloce 10. In thinking about this project I had a few questions:

1. Has the width of between the dropouts (front & rear) remained the same so I can just drop ing the new wheelset?

2. What should I do About the shifter bosses on the down tube when I switch the the new STI/Ergo levers/shifters?

3. Will I encounter any problems fit-wise at the bottom bracket?

4. Any other issues that I may run into?

Sorry for asking these questions without actually measuring and researching further, but I just started thinking about this project. There seems to be a lot of knowledgable people here that may be able to answer my questions rather easily.

Oh, and the reason I want to do this project is for fun. Plus I like the feel of a steel-framed bike. I have an '87 Trek 560 Pro but I will restore that w/ all its original components. I'm also actually in the market to buy a "modern" bike too with a budget of $1500-2000(US).

Thanks. 😎

Yer i am havin an issue as well can any of you guys help me because i am not sure whether to get and avanti corsa or a giant tcr alliance 1 i have heard both are good and similer in terms of groupset and frame materials i just need some help on decidin i am mainly train and racing a little bit but strating to do it more often in 100 kms and crits any help would be gratly appreciated i am about 6,0 foot and 65-67kgs
Thanks

(Y(L|5T said:

I have an '88 Trek 360 steel road bike that was given to me a long time ago. It has been in the rafters of my garage for 12+years. I'm going to rebuild it and upgrading the whole drivetrain to new 105 or Campy Veloce 10. In thinking about this project I had a few questions:

1. Has the width of between the dropouts (front & rear) remained the same so I can just drop ing the new wheelset?

2. What should I do About the shifter bosses on the down tube when I switch the the new STI/Ergo levers/shifters?

3. Will I encounter any problems fit-wise at the bottom bracket?

4. Any other issues that I may run into?

Sorry for asking these questions without actually measuring and researching further, but I just started thinking about this project. There seems to be a lot of knowledgable people here that may be able to answer my questions rather easily.

Oh, and the reason I want to do this project is for fun. Plus I like the feel of a steel-framed bike. I have an '87 Trek 560 Pro but I will restore that w/ all its original components. I'm also actually in the market to buy a "modern" bike too with a budget of $1500-2000(US).

Thanks. 😎

Great minds must think alike. I am going to take my dad's old schwinn that he bought new in the early 70's. I am going to redo everything and get new components for it. I have been advised though that I have to keep the bright yellow retro paint job. The main reason I have for redoing the bike is that I am 6'4" and finding a frame big enough is hard. Luckily my dad is also 6'4". What a coincidence.

Say, do you guys know if Campy makes a BB which will fit an English frame but take a Campy crank?

I have a steel 126. When I went to 130 it didn't want to hold the wheel. Every time I would step on it the wheel would shift until it rubbed the left chainstay. The dropouts weren't square to the locknuts. The axle would slip. It wasn't a matter of flex. I had to run higher skewer tension. I readjusted the cones to keep from compressing the bearings because I had to supply enough additional force to bend the dropouts straight so they'd bear evenly on the hub.

I think any taller person who is considering rebuilding an old road bike ought to go to a bike shop and sit on a new one just to try a bike that fits. Older road bike frames typically came with varying seat tube lengths but a standard top tube which was typically too short for taller people. My old steel bike was partially fixed with a longer stem but could still use about 20mm in the top tube. I am no longer planning to fix it up with new shifters and wheelset.

Vanden said:

Great minds must think alike. I am going to take my dad's old schwinn that he bought new in the early 70's. I am going to redo everything and get new components for it. I have been advised though that I have to keep the bright yellow retro paint job. The main reason I have for redoing the bike is that I am 6'4" and finding a frame big enough is hard. Luckily my dad is also 6'4". What a coincidence.

I bet you it is too short in the top tube. A rule of thumb is: Sit on the bike with your hands on the drops. The handlebar should obscure the front hub as you look down.

I subjectively found that bikes which meet that standard are a great deal more comfortable than old, cramped road bikes.

I got the longest stem I could find for my '84 schwinn and it helped some but it still feels a bit cramped, AND the seat tube is so tall I need to wear shoes to have enough standover.

Try some online fit calculators. You might need a tape measure.

garage sale GT said:

Say, do you guys know if Campy makes a BB which will fit an English frame but take a Campy crank?
...Older road bike frames typically came with varying seat tube lengths but a standard top tube which was typically too short for taller people. My old steel bike was partially fixed with a longer stem but could still use about 20mm in the top tube. I am no longer planning to fix it up with new shifters and wheelset.

There are lots of square-taper bottom brackets for Campy cranks and English bottom brackets, including Campy. Talk to your local shop, or post a query to an online dealer. Nashbar and Performance are good for non-exotic stuff at good prices. I also like NYCBikes, Niagara Cycle Works, BikePartsUSA, BikeTiresDirect, and BikeIsland.

Regarding fit, the new longer top tubes also make it difficult to fit riders with long legs and short torsos.

oldbobcat said:

Regarding fit, the new longer top tubes also make it difficult to fit riders with long legs and short torsos.

I wholeheartedly concur that some people may like the old bikes' fit better, but it's an issue which bears exploration since some authorites like the late Mr. Brown seemed to think bikes back then had a one-size-fits-all approach to top tube length.

garage sale GT said:

I wholeheartedly concur that some people may like the old bikes' fit better, but it's an issue which bears exploration since some authorites like the late Mr. Brown seemed to think bikes back then had a one-size-fits-all approach to top tube length.

Beg to differ on one-size-fits all. Maybe at the lower end of the price spectrum, but at the upper end top tubes were proportioned to seat tube length. Granted, the general trend was shorter than today's trend, but remember that with with flexy quill stems and shorter seat posts most people rode frames that were 1-3 cm larger than what they are currently riding.

Maybe one positive sign for lanky guys (and gals) is extended head tubes on the compact and semi-compact frames. I could probably duplicate the setup of my 61 cm Gios on a M-L Giant TCR without flipping the stem.

garage sale GT said:

I wholeheartedly concur that some people may like the old bikes' fit better, but it's an issue which bears exploration since some authorites like the late Mr. Brown seemed to think bikes back then had a one-size-fits-all approach to top tube length.

Brown had some (not many, but glaring if you noticed them) errors; but, I think you mis-read Sheldon Brown's comments regarding top tube length on lugged frames ... or, maybe he didn't state it clearly.

It wasn't that one-size-fits-all would do for all frames, but that was the consequence of mass production BECAUSE the various lugs are cast at certain angles.

So, while various angles were available -- e.g., 72º, 73º, 74º -- for the head & seat tubes + BB shells, they have fixed angles UNLESS the framebuilder forges/hammers them to a new angle. Consequently, for off-the-shelf bikes, standardizing the bazillion lugs & BB shells for 72º or 73º frames were most easily accommodated by simply providing a different stem length.

TIG welding changed frame design AND rider frame fit -- miter the tubes as needed (i.e., ANY angle), then weld.

A vintage 52cm (c-c) frame would probably come with a 7cm stem whereas a current 52cm (c-c) frame might have a 12cm stem ... almost a two inch difference because the top tube on the contemporary frame will undoubtedly have a shorter top tube & some notions on frame fit have changed over the years (i.e., touring vs. "racing"😉.

So, the same top tube length on vintage steel frames really wasn't a one-size-fits-all will do situation but the necessary result of mass production.

John M said:

No problem spreading that rear triangle the 4mm to accomodate the 130mm rear wheel. It will be a bit tight and will interfere with rapid wheel changes, but will work fine. You could get a shop to permanently spread the frame, but I wouldn't bother. I have a 1983 steel Trek with 126mm spacing and a 130mm rear wheel (Veloce/mirage 9s triple mix used for commuting/bad weather) and everything works perfectly.

FWIW. I think that INDEXED SHIFTING is improved if the rear derailleur hanger is re-aligned after the stays are spread ...

On SOME frames, the dropouts may actually be slightly boat-tailed (well that was the case with my FUJI S-12S LTD, for example) ... the dropouts & rear derailleur hanger on the particular frame became parallel to the center plane of the frame after I spread the stays from 126mm to 130mm!

oldbobcat said:

Beg to differ on one-size-fits all. Maybe at the lower end of the price spectrum, but at the upper end top tubes were proportioned to seat tube length. Granted, the general trend was shorter than today's trend, but remember that with with flexy quill stems and shorter seat posts most people rode frames that were 1-3 cm larger than what they are currently riding.

FWIW. I think the "trend" in top tube length varies from decade-to-decade ...

Back in the 60s-to-early-70s, I think the common top tube length (when frame angles were 72º & fork rake was 50mm) was about 57cm regardless of frame size for most high production frame builders.