Generator Hub and Light

Jay Beattie said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub generator/light.
If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

What was the good generator headlight?

current must have is the B&M IQ fly senso plus (174Q)

(and you can blame me, I'm further away 😉 )
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

"Jay Beattie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub generator/light.
If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

Quoted message said:

What was the good generator headlight?

Previously, Schmidt E6. Or Solidlight 1203D for those with money to launder.
But things have moved on:

B+M IQ fly is really very good. You'll probably want the senso plus one (has
switch and standlight).
(make sure you get the IQ model, not the old fly). I'm being a bit
evangelistic about these having just fitted a couple to our bikes and being
very impressed. Even SMS might cope with one of these.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone see anything the
matter with Sheldon's pre-fab generator wheel (I don't want to have to
go spoke shopping)? See
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
I know it's not a Schmidt, but the drag is supposed to be pretty low
on these units.

Should be fine.

Quoted message said:

After re-building this bike (with bar-ends, generators, fat tires,
cantis -- and all the other things I dumped years ago), I will be back
in a position to ridicule retro (actually my current position) or else
claim retro martyrdome. -- Jay Beattie.

Can you get it in 650 though?

And of course an LED lamp isn't terribly retro :-)

cheers,
clive

Jay Beattie said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub generator/light.
If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

What was the good generator headlight? Does anyone see anything the
matter with Sheldon's pre-fab generator wheel (I don't want to have to
go spoke shopping)? See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
I know it's not a Schmidt, but the drag is supposed to be pretty low
on these units.

After re-building this bike (with bar-ends, generators, fat tires,
cantis -- and all the other things I dumped years ago), I will be back
in a position to ridicule retro (actually my current position) or else
claim retro martyrdome. -- Jay Beattie.

sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but
i wonder if this hub http://peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.asp along
with an openpro
rim would be any good. there is a version with the provisions for a
disk brake
which i always wanted to have in front for quickie descents.

How good is DD RR 1.1? i just paid about $230 to a lbs to build a rear
on 105 hub
but i have no idea how does it compare to Mavic Open Pro.
can't find RR 1.1 anywhere on the DT website.

happy pedal mashing!

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Jay Beattie said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub
generator/light. If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

What was the good generator headlight?

There are several to choose from. I use the Lumotec lights and am very
happy with them. I would stay away from the Basta that looks like the
Lumotec, the optics are not as good. If you want an LED based light,
others will have to advise as I have no experience with them.

These were recently pointed out to me:

http://www.supernova-lights.com/en/products/e3/e3_english.html

And some shots of some headlight beams that include most of the major
players except the SolidLight:

http://www.velociped.ch/docs/Dynamo-Scheinwerfervergleich_2008.pdf

In those photos the E3 beam looks very good- a long pool of light with
well distributed illumination. I am assuming for the sake of the
comparison that each light was mounted in a similar position.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone see anything the matter with Sheldon's pre-fab generator
wheel (I don't want to have to go spoke shopping)? See
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html I know it's
not a Schmidt, but the drag is supposed to be pretty low on these
units.

Those are very good hubs according to a half dozen people I know that
use them. They don't notice significant drag and the hubs have been
very reliable. And you can get two of them for the price of a Schmidt.

"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Jay Beattie said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub
generator/light. If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

What was the good generator headlight?

There are several to choose from. I use the Lumotec lights and am very
happy with them. I would stay away from the Basta that looks like the
Lumotec, the optics are not as good. If you want an LED based light,
others will have to advise as I have no experience with them.

These were recently pointed out to me:

http://www.supernova-lights.com/en/products/e3/e3_english.html

And some shots of some headlight beams that include most of the major
players except the SolidLight:

http://www.velociped.ch/docs/Dynamo-Scheinwerfervergleich_2008.pdf

In those photos the E3 beam looks very good- a long pool of light with
well distributed illumination. I am assuming for the sake of the
comparison that each light was mounted in a similar position.

I have a nasty feeling those photos aren't taken with the same exposure. In
real life the IQ fly is really quite a lot better than the lumotec oval,
both within the main beam and outside it.

cheers,
clive

Jay Beattie said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub generator/light.
If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

What was the good generator headlight?  Does anyone see anything the
matter with Sheldon's pre-fab generator wheel (I don't want to have to
go spoke shopping)? Seehttp://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano..html
I know it's not a Schmidt, but the drag is supposed to be pretty low
on these units.

After re-building this bike (with bar-ends, generators, fat tires,
cantis -- and all the other things I dumped years ago), I will be back
in a position to ridicule retro (actually my current position) or else
claim retro martyrdome.  -- Jay Beattie.

I have one of the Harris Cyclery built wheels on a Shimano DHN371
front generator hub. Or whatever its numbers are. Open Pro rim. So
the prebuilt Sun rim one should be OK too. Generator is fine. It
feels notchy and has resistance when turning in the hand. But on the
road I don't notice it. But its always on when its dark and you ride
slower at night. So whether the generator hub is slowing you down or
not, I'm not sure. I bought mine from a friend. If doing it from
scratch, I would buy a Schmidt hub. $100 or so more but you don't
worry whether you have the best generator hub or not. I would also
get the lower drag, and much lighter weight SON 20 instead of the very
heavy SON28. SON20 is for small wheeled bikes and SON28 is for 26-27"
sized wheels. So the SON20 on a 700C produces its full output for two
E6 lights at a couple mph more than the SON28. Since I'm always
riding faster than this anyway, it would never bother me. And with
LED lights, as mentioned by others in this thread, the minimum speed
for full illumination is much lower than with E6 halogen lights.

I have two Schmidt E6 halogen lights on the bike mounted on either
side of the front hub on Minoura Besso mounts. Available from
Nashbar. They light up the road pretty well. I've used them on
several 1200ks and a 1000k and a few 600ks, etc. And lots of night
rides. I still like having a helmet light to shine on signs, corners,
cars, computer, cue sheet holder, when stopped, etc. I use a
NiteRider 15watt around town and a Princeton Tec EOS on long rides.
The secondary E6 does not add a whole lot of extra light. Definitely
not double the primary E6. You could save money and just use one E6
and not have much less light really.

If I was doing it again, I'd look at the LED lights instead of the
Schmidt E6 lights. And a Schmidt hub instead of the Shimano hub.

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub generator/light.
If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

What was the good generator headlight? Does anyone see anything the
matter with Sheldon's pre-fab generator wheel (I don't want to have to
go spoke shopping)? See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
I know it's not a Schmidt, but the drag is supposed to be pretty low
on these units.

After re-building this bike (with bar-ends, generators, fat tires,
cantis -- and all the other things I dumped years ago), I will be back
in a position to ridicule retro (actually my current position) or else
claim retro martyrdome. -- Jay Beattie.

sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but
i wonder if this hub http://peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.asp along
with an openpro
rim would be any good. there is a version with the provisions for a
disk brake
which i always wanted to have in front for quickie descents.

How good is DD RR 1.1? i just paid about $230 to a lbs to build a rear
on 105 hub
but i have no idea how does it compare to Mavic Open Pro.
can't find RR 1.1 anywhere on the DT website.

happy pedal mashing!

I have some cracking around the 1.1 eyelets. I guess about 6,000 miles
on the rims. That seems a bit early. I have also had the same damage
on Open Pros but I think I got a lot more mileage before I noticed.
The guy who built my wheels laced them a bit tighter than I would.

Does it really cost that much?
http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/display/25350/ That is why I
bought pre-built wheels. The parts were more than a prebuilt wheel.

Jay Beattie said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub generator/light.
If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

What was the good generator headlight? Does anyone see anything the
matter with Sheldon's pre-fab generator wheel (I don't want to have to
go spoke shopping)? Seehttp://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
I know it's not a Schmidt, but the drag is supposed to be pretty low
on these units.

After re-building this bike (with bar-ends, generators, fat tires,
cantis -- and all the other things I dumped years ago), I will be back
in a position to ridicule retro (actually my current position) or else
claim retro martyrdome. -- Jay Beattie.

I have the Schmidt hub on an Open Pro Rim, with the DLumotec Oval Plus
LED primary, and an E6 secondary. I could not be happier with it, as
it exceeded all my expectations. The DLumotec reaches full brightness
at about 2 mph. It's a broader beam, so it is complemented nicely by
the E6, which is a narrower beam that really throws the light up the
road. This is important for the fast rides on unlit roads. But the
DLumotec does work well by itself, so that might satisfy your needs.
You can always add a secondary light later if you discover one light
is insufficient.

Jay Beattie skrev:

Quoted message said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub generator/light.
If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

What was the good generator headlight? Does anyone see anything the
matter with Sheldon's pre-fab generator wheel (I don't want to have to
go spoke shopping)? See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
I know it's not a Schmidt, but the drag is supposed to be pretty low
on these units.

I own both a Shimano DH-2N70 and a DH-3N71 hub. Both have provided
stellar service without any problems. You won't notice the drag at
all. If you want to save some weight then get the new Shimano DH-3N80.

The B&M Lumotec IQ Fly Senso Plus is the dynamo light I would buy
today. I don't think that there is any dynamo light that comes even
close to its balance between power, optics and price.

--
Regards

Quoted message said:

How good is DD RR 1.1? i just paid about $230 to a lbs to build a rear
on 105 hub
but i have no idea how does it compare to Mavic Open Pro.
can't find RR 1.1 anywhere on the DT website.

http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/Rims/RR-rims.aspx

Lou

Jay Beattie said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub generator/light.
If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

What was the good generator headlight? Does anyone see anything the
matter with Sheldon's pre-fab generator wheel (I don't want to have to
go spoke shopping)? See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
I know it's not a Schmidt, but the drag is supposed to be pretty low
on these units.

After re-building this bike (with bar-ends, generators, fat tires,
cantis -- and all the other things I dumped years ago), I will be back
in a position to ridicule retro (actually my current position) or else
claim retro martyrdome. -- Jay Beattie.

I've used an E6 for a couple of years, including a few all-nighter
rides, and it's good on unlit roads although the beam is so narrow that
it can be disconcerting on bends - you can't see round corners at all.
It's better than the B&M Lumotec Oval, although not twice as good (it's
twice the price). Go for the E6-B with the black bezel; the one with
the "glow ring" destroys your night vision, unless it's shielded from
your eyes by a bar bag or something.

I'm upgrading to a Supernova E3 LED lamp now, which is supposed to be
many times brighter. A lot of British Audax riders swear by the
Solidlight 1203D LED light, but I hear about a lot of reliability
problems and water leaks. It's also pig-ugly.

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub generator/light.
If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

What was the good generator headlight? Does anyone see anything the
matter with Sheldon's pre-fab generator wheel (I don't want to have to
go spoke shopping)? See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
I know it's not a Schmidt, but the drag is supposed to be pretty low
on these units.

After re-building this bike (with bar-ends, generators, fat tires,
cantis -- and all the other things I dumped years ago), I will be back
in a position to ridicule retro (actually my current position) or else
claim retro martyrdome. -- Jay Beattie.

sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but
i wonder if this hub http://peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.asp along
with an openpro
rim would be any good. there is a version with the provisions for a
disk brake
which i always wanted to have in front for quickie descents.

How good is DD RR 1.1? i just paid about $230 to a lbs to build a rear
on 105 hub
but i have no idea how does it compare to Mavic Open Pro.
can't find RR 1.1 anywhere on the DT website.

happy pedal mashing!

I can't comment on the RR 1.1 specifically, but I have built four wheels
with XR 4.1, the 26" cross-country rim, and they are excellent. They
take a stupendous spoke tension and come true easily as they seem to be
quite stiff laterally. All this in spite of the marketroids' features
such as black anodising, single eyelets and a welded joint. Note that
the RR 1.1 is also available with double sockets rather than single
eyelets, if you want a bit of insurance.

Jim Behning said:

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub generator/light.
If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What was the good generator headlight?  Does anyone see anything the
matter with Sheldon's pre-fab generator wheel (I don't want to have to
go spoke shopping)? Seehttp://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
I know it's not a Schmidt, but the drag is supposed to be pretty low
on these units.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After re-building this bike (with bar-ends, generators, fat tires,
cantis -- and all the other things I dumped years ago), I will be back
in a position to ridicule retro (actually my current position) or else
claim retro martyrdome.  -- Jay Beattie.

Quoted message said:

sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but
i wonder if this hubhttp://peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.aspalong
with an openpro
rim would be any good. there is a version with the provisions for a
disk brake
which i always wanted to have in front for quickie descents.

Quoted message said:

How good is DD RR 1.1? i just paid about $230 to a lbs to build a rear
on 105 hub
but i have no idea how does it compare to Mavic Open Pro.
can't find RR 1.1 anywhere on the DT website.

Quoted message said:

happy pedal mashing!

I have some cracking around the 1.1 eyelets. I guess about 6,000 miles
on the rims. That seems a bit early. I have also had the same damage
on Open Pros but I think I got a lot more mileage before I noticed.
The guy who built my wheels laced them a bit tighter than I would.

Does it really cost that much?http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/display/25350/That is why I
bought pre-built wheels. The parts were more than a prebuilt wheel.

Single eyelet 1.1 rims? If so, VERY important that 100 kgf tension not
be exceeded. 'Tighter' is not better.

I bought a 3N-71 and a B&M Lumotec Oval for my commuter bike a few years
back, the 3N-71 dynamo hub has given really good service and has been
excellent value for the money. I dressed up my tourer with a Schmidt a
year or so ago, and it is an improvement over the Shimano in some ways.
It is lighter, the wiring seems a good bit sturdier, and it is over all
a much nicer looking component than the Shimano. The metal toggle switch
on the Schmidt-modified Busch & Mueller light is sturdier than the
slider switch on the Shimano-compatible Busch & Mueller. Is the Schmidt
worth more than double the price of the Shimano? Maybe, if you pile on
the miles and if you consider that replacing either hub entails building
a new wheel. I would call the Shimano "best value for money" and the
Schmidt "the best, and damn the cost".

The Busch & Mueller Lumotec Oval Senso Plus (who dreamed up that name?)
is an excellent halogen light, good value for money, and the wide beam
and standlight are nice for commuting. An E6 secondary with a tighter,
longer reaching beam would be nice for higher speeds, though. Judging
from this thread and other reports, though, it sounds like halogen
headlights are starting to be superseded by LED headlights.

Zog The Undeniable said:

Jay Beattie said:

I think I am going to build my bullet proof retro commuter over
Christmas and was going to take the plunge with a hub generator/light.
If it sucks, I am going to blame Frank.

Quoted message said:

What was the good generator headlight?  Does anyone see anything the
matter with Sheldon's pre-fab generator wheel (I don't want to have to
go spoke shopping)? Seehttp://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
I know it's not a Schmidt, but the drag is supposed to be pretty low
on these units.

Quoted message said:

After re-building this bike (with bar-ends, generators, fat tires,
cantis -- and all the other things I dumped years ago), I will be back
in a position to ridicule retro (actually my current position) or else
claim retro martyrdome.  -- Jay Beattie.

I've used an E6 for a couple of years, including a few all-nighter
rides, and it's good on unlit roads although the beam is so narrow that
it can be disconcerting on bends - you can't see round corners at all.
It's better than the B&M Lumotec Oval, although not twice as good (it's
twice the price).  Go for the E6-B with the black bezel; the one with
the "glow ring" destroys your night vision, unless it's shielded from
your eyes by a bar bag or something.

I'm upgrading to a Supernova E3 LED lamp now, which is supposed to be
many times brighter.  A lot of British Audax riders swear by the
Solidlight 1203D LED light, but I hear about a lot of reliability
problems and water leaks.  It's also pig-ugly.

When you get the Supernova E3 and use it for awhile, please post a
review and comparisn with the Schmidt E6 and Busch Mueller lights. I
have no need for a whole new set of lights and generator, but I want a
Schmidt hub and the brightest, best LED lights.

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:57:07 -0600, Tim McNamara <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Those are very good hubs according to a half dozen people I know that
use them. They don't notice significant drag and the hubs have been
very reliable. And you can get two of them for the price of a Schmidt.

Several more than two, even. I've got the even cheaper Shimano model, and
even that is perfectly adequate.

Jasper

email hidden said:

So whether the generator hub is slowing you down or
not, I'm not sure.

Well, yes, of course it is. The energy for the light comes from
*somewhere*. The question is mainly how much *extra* it slows you down
beyond the energy that actually goes into the bulb. hub generators are
pretty good in that regard.

Jasper

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have some cracking around the 1.1 eyelets. I guess about 6,000 miles
on the rims. That seems a bit early. I have also had the same damage
on Open Pros but I think I got a lot more mileage before I noticed.
The guy who built my wheels laced them a bit tighter than I would.

Quoted message said:

Does it really cost that much?http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/display/25350/Thatis why I
bought pre-built wheels. The parts were more than a prebuilt wheel.

Single eyelet 1.1 rims? If so, VERY important that 100 kgf tension not

i have no clue. how could i tell? is there a picture somewhere?
is there a double eyelet open pro version? i assume more is better in
this case.
what's important to me is the performance of the rim brakes. i assume
if the rim is not anodized it's okay but different wheels seem to have
different surface
sized exposed to the airflow. Is there a way to tell which rim cools
faster and heats up less?
Aerobars are on the way and with a dual rim/disk setup controls will
be all over the place 🙂
Since aerobars take up some space does dlumotec and others come with a
pivoting
mounts so that i can evict the lights off the bar onto aerobars?

regarding 3N71s:

Quoted message said:

Those are very good hubs according to a half dozen people I know that
use them. They don't notice significant drag and the hubs have been
very reliable. And you can get two of them for the price of a Schmidt.

i intend to get the next wheel with provisions for a disk brake.
my question is this: how well does shimano resist baking from a hot
hot hot
disk compared to schmidt? my intention is to not need two of shimanos
for the price of one schmidt just because i had my fun on a long steep
descent.

Quoted message said:

Does it really cost that much?
http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/display/25350/ That is why I
bought pre-built wheels. The parts were more than a prebuilt wheel.

probably it costs that much just to the stupid uninformed me :-(
do you know if is there a site where i can order an open pro with 3n71
hub
and a disk?
are there any pictures of the wiring near the hubs? i have no idea how
this all comes together given that the hub has wheel rotating over it.
how to the wires connect???

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:03:29 -0800 (PST), "Squat'n Dive"
<[email hidden]>, regarding the Shimano DH3N71, concluded

Quoted message said:

are there any pictures of the wiring near the hubs? i have no idea how
this all comes together given that the hub has wheel rotating over it.
how to the wires connect???

Very easily, yet securely, and easily disconnected when removing the
front wheel. All you have to do is pay attention to the plug
position in relation to the fork leg when reinstalling the wheel.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html

Scroll down for the wiring diagram and close-ups of the fool-proof
plug.

Regarding your heat concerns, I'd not worry about it too much as the
generating mechanism is on the other side or a big heat sink. And,
would the Schmidt hub offer any more cooling? I've not seen the
technical specs for either's range of operating temperatures.

I can't imagine why the Shimano's ability to cope with heat is any
less or greater than the Schmidt's nor how either addresses the
issue. or if it even is one. It is an interesting question though.
--
zk