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Generator Hub and Light

Started by Jay Beattie · · Last activity · 30 posts · 855 views

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Cycling Equipment
Published
21 December 2007
Last activity
30 December 2007
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Jay Beattie
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  1. Zoot Katz said:

    On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:03:29 -0800 (PST), "Squat'n Dive"
    <[email hidden]>, regarding the Shimano DH3N71, concluded

    Quoted message said:

    are there any pictures of the wiring near the hubs? i have no idea how
    this all comes together given that thehubhas wheel rotating over it.
    how to the wires connect???

    Very easily, yet securely, and easily disconnected when removing the
    front wheel. All you have to do is pay attention to the plug
    position in relation to the fork leg when reinstalling the wheel.

    http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html

    Scroll down for the wiring diagram and close-ups of the fool-proof
    plug.

    Regarding your heat concerns, I'd not worry about it too much as the
    generating mechanism is on the other side or a big heat sink. And,
    would the Schmidthuboffer any more cooling? I've not seen the
    technical specs for either's range of operating temperatures.

    according to what i read on peterwhitecycles.com
    they did not have any issues with son2xS fried by disk brakes.
    for 3n71 i have no info (and that bothers me)

    Quoted message said:

    I can't imagine why the Shimano's ability to cope with heat is any
    less or greater than the Schmidt's nor how either addresses the
    issue. or if it even is one. It is an interesting question though.

    another issue is if i can power off a secondary light off a 3n7[01].
    i think it produces only 3 watts which seems to be barely enough
    for a one front and a taillight but on the page that you provided
    secondaries are listed. so?

  2. Squat'n Dive said:
    Zoot Katz said:

    On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:03:29 -0800 (PST), "Squat'n Dive"
    <[email hidden]>, regarding the Shimano DH3N71, concluded

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    are there any pictures of the wiring near the hubs? i have no idea how
    this all comes together given that thehubhas wheel rotating over it.
    how to the wires connect???

    Quoted message said:

    Very easily, yet securely, and easily disconnected when removing the
    front wheel.  All you have to do is pay attention to the plug
    position in relation to the fork leg when reinstalling the wheel.

    Quoted message said:

    http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html

    Quoted message said:

    Scroll down for the wiring diagram and close-ups of the fool-proof
    plug.

    Quoted message said:

    Regarding your heat concerns, I'd not worry about it too much as the
    generating mechanism is on the other side or a big heat sink. And,
    would the Schmidthuboffer any more cooling? I've not seen the
    technical specs for either's range of operating temperatures.

    according to what i read on peterwhitecycles.com
    they did not have any issues with son2xS fried by disk brakes.
    for 3n71 i have no info (and that bothers me)

    Quoted message said:

    I can't imagine why the Shimano's ability to cope with heat is any
    less or greater than the Schmidt's nor how either addresses the
    issue. or if it even is one. It is an interesting question though.

    another issue is if i can power off a secondary light off a 3n7[01].
    i think it produces only 3 watts which seems to be barely enough
    for a one front and a taillight but on the page that you provided
    secondaries are listed. so?- Hide quoted text -

    If you are asking whether the Shimano DH-3N71 generator hub can power
    a primary and a secondary 3 watt light, the answer is yes it can power
    both of them. For two Schmidt E6 lights, you need to be going above
    10 mph or so to get full brightness from both.

    Quoted message said:


    - Show quoted text -

  3. email hidden said:
    Squat'n Dive said:

    On Dec 23, 8:27 pm, Zoot Katz <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:03:29 -0800 (PST), "Squat'n Dive"
    <[email hidden]>, regarding the Shimano DH3N71, concluded

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >are there any pictures of the wiring near the hubs? i have no idea how
    >this all comes together given that thehubhas wheel rotating over it.
    >how to the wires connect???

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Very easily, yet securely, and easily disconnected when removing the
    front wheel. All you have to do is pay attention to the plug
    position in relation to the fork leg when reinstalling the wheel.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Scroll down for the wiring diagram and close-ups of the fool-proof
    plug.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Regarding your heat concerns, I'd not worry about it too much as the
    generating mechanism is on the other side or a big heat sink. And,
    would the Schmidthuboffer any more cooling? I've not seen the
    technical specs for either's range of operating temperatures.

    Quoted message said:

    according to what i read on peterwhitecycles.com
    they did not have any issues with son2xS fried by disk brakes.
    for 3n71 i have no info (and that bothers me)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I can't imagine why the Shimano's ability to cope with heat is any
    less or greater than the Schmidt's nor how either addresses the
    issue. or if it even is one. It is an interesting question though.

    Quoted message said:

    another issue is if i can power off a secondary light off a 3n7[01].
    i think it produces only 3 watts which seems to be barely enough
    for a one front and a taillight but on the page that you provided
    secondaries are listed. so?- Hide quoted text -

    If you are asking whether the Shimano DH-3N71 generator hub can power
    a primary and a secondary 3 watt light, the answer is yes it can power
    both of them. For two Schmidt E6 lights, you need to be going above
    10 mph or so to get full brightness from both.


    would DLumotec+supernova E3/whatever is that i'd choose for the rear
    combination
    work or that is not a wise combo?

  4. What is different about the "secondary" lights and why can't you use
    two regular 3 watt lights in series?

  5. <[email hidden]> a écrit:

    Quoted message said:

    What is different about the "secondary" lights

    Generally just the switching. It can be desirable to have just one light on
    at lower speeds, so the primary light has a switch in series, and the
    secondary light has one in parallel.

    Quoted message said:

    and why can't you use two regular 3 watt lights in series?

    You can, if the switching issue isn't important.

    James Thomson

  6. "Squat'n Dive" <[email hidden]> a écrit:

    Quoted message said:

    another issue is if i can power off a secondary light off a
    3n7[01]. i think it produces only 3 watts which seems to be
    barely enough for a one front and a taillight but on the page
    that you provided secondaries are listed. so?

    Most hub dynamos will put half an amp through the attached load. If you
    double the load, you double the power output.

    James Thomson

  7. James Thomson said:

    <[email hidden]> a écrit:

    Quoted message said:

    What is different about the "secondary" lights

    Generally just the switching. It can be desirable to have just one light on
    at lower speeds, so the primary light has a switch in series, and the
    secondary light has one in parallel.

    Quoted message said:

    and why can't you use two regular 3 watt lights in series?

    You can, if the switching issue isn't important.

    James Thomson

    You can build an automatic switcher as well. I have a schematic for one
    on the bicycle lighting web site.

    "http://nordicgroup.us/s78/images/switcher.gif"

    Also, the original poster should check an REI store, and have an
    employee look up the spare part price of a front wheel for the REI
    Fusion which has an Alec 17 rim and a Shimano Nexus Dynamo.

    I have bought rear racks from REI (both the one on the Fusion and the
    Randonee by asking the bicycle department for the spare part SKU, then
    ordering at the checkout. The prices were very reasonable, far less than
    I expected. I don't know for sure if they sell new front wheels as a
    spare part, but they may.

  8. Squat'n Dive said:

    On Dec 28, 2:06 pm, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:

    On Dec 28, 1:59 pm, "Squat'n Dive" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Dec 23, 8:27 pm, Zoot Katz <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:03:29 -0800 (PST), "Squat'n Dive"
    > <[email hidden]>, regarding the Shimano DH3N71, concluded

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >are there any pictures of the wiring near the hubs? i have no idea how
    > >this all comes together given that thehubhas wheel rotating over it..
    > >how to the wires connect???

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Very easily, yet securely, and easily disconnected when removing the
    > front wheel.  All you have to do is pay attention to the plug
    > position in relation to the fork leg when reinstalling the wheel.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Scroll down for the wiring diagram and close-ups of the fool-proof
    > plug.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Regarding your heat concerns, I'd not worry about it too much as the
    > generating mechanism is on the other side or a big heat sink. And,
    > would the Schmidthuboffer any more cooling? I've not seen the
    > technical specs for either's range of operating temperatures.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    according to what i read on peterwhitecycles.com
    they did not have any issues with son2xS fried by disk brakes.
    for 3n71 i have no info (and that bothers me)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I can't imagine why the Shimano's ability to cope with heat is any
    > less or greater than the Schmidt's nor how either addresses the
    > issue. or if it even is one. It is an interesting question though.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    another issue is if i can power off a secondary light off a 3n7[01].
    i think it produces only 3 watts which seems to be barely enough
    for a one front and a taillight but on the page that you provided
    secondaries are listed. so?- Hide quoted text -

    Quoted message said:

    If you are asking whether the Shimano DH-3N71 generator hub can power
    a primary and a secondary 3 watt light, the answer is yes it can power
    both of them.  For two Schmidt E6 lights, you need to be going above
    10 mph or so to get full brightness from both.

    would DLumotec+supernova E3/whatever is that i'd choose for the rear
    combination
    work or that is not a wise combo?- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    Can't say for sure since I don't use that combination. But the
    difference between primary and secondary lights is the switch.
    Running two halogen lights, secondary and primary, they will both
    reach full brightness about 12mph. Lower than that and they will both
    be dimmer. Which is why some people switch teh secondary light on and
    off going up hills or when riding slow, and thus burn out bulbs
    switching the light on and off. If you only have the primary on, it
    will reach full brightness at about 7mph and be dimmer below that.

    But with the new LED generator lights, the primary reaches full
    brightness at about 3mph. So if you hooked up two LED lights in
    parallel, both getting full power all the time, they would both likely
    reach full brightness at about 5mph. With the LED lights, there is no
    need to have a series switch on the secondary light since both can
    reach full brightness at such a low speed, about 5mph. So I'd just
    run two LED lights as primary lights. And if I ever find a grand I
    don't need, I'll likely get a Schmidt generator wheel and two LED
    lights. Solidlights, SuperNova, etc.

    With my two Schmidt E6 lights, primary and secondary, I never ever
    turn off the secondary light. And I don't burn out bulbs switchig the
    lights on and off. It alwasy stays on at all times. I rarely ride
    less than 10mph or so. And if I do I am likely climbing a steep hill
    so I don't need much light anyway since I'm going so slow. I only
    switch the lights off by unhooking the cable from the hub. I never
    use the switches built into the lights.

  9. email hidden said:


    ... the difference between primary and secondary lights is the switch.
    Running two halogen lights, secondary and primary, they will both
    reach full brightness about 12mph. Lower than that and they will both
    be dimmer. Which is why some people switch teh secondary light on and
    off going up hills or when riding slow, and thus burn out bulbs
    switching the light on and off. If you only have the primary on, it
    will reach full brightness at about 7mph and be dimmer below that.

    With other headlights, it's not difficult to wire a pretty generic
    switch yourself. I do this with my old Soubitez bottom bracket
    generator on my commuter / utility bike.

    I use a three position, single pole, double throw, center "off"
    switch. The wiring is a bit odd... let's see if I can describe it:

    The main circuit runs from the generator output through one headlight
    filament, then through a "center wire" to the other headlight, through
    that filament then back to generator ground. (I've isolated the
    generator and both headlights from frame ground). If you do nothing
    else, running the generator will light both headlights, but as folks
    have said, they'll be too dim at low speeds.

    The switch is wired as follows: the center "input" terminal of the
    switch goes to that "center wire" running between the two headlights.
    One "output" terminal of the switch is wired to one generator wire,
    and the other "output" switch terminal is wired to the other generator
    wire.

    I have the switch mounted on my handlebar. If the switch is in it's
    center=off position, it does nothing, so both lights still light. But
    if you switch it either right or left, it shorts across one headlight
    (your choice), taking it out of the circuit. That's useful at low
    speeds. IOW, it allows either light to be "primary."

    I wired it this way mostly so I could play around comparing headlamp
    beams. But it occurs to me, it's also a built-in way to deal with a
    burned out bulb. Just switch to the other headlight.

    A word on the switch: The standard Radio Shack switch I used has
    gotten a bit unreliable, probably from moisture and corrosion. I
    noticed my lights looking dim, so I just touched the switch, and they
    brightened up to full output. I plan to replace the switch and
    weatherproof the new one.

    Quoted message said:


    But with the new LED generator lights, the primary reaches full
    brightness at about 3mph. So if you hooked up two LED lights in
    parallel, both getting full power all the time, they would both likely
    reach full brightness at about 5mph. With the LED lights, there is no
    need to have a series switch on the secondary light since both can
    reach full brightness at such a low speed, about 5mph. So I'd just
    run two LED lights as primary lights. And if I ever find a grand I
    don't need, I'll likely get a Schmidt generator wheel and two LED
    lights. Solidlights, SuperNova, etc.

    What are the electrical characteristics of the new LED generator
    lights? I ask, because with incandescents, you normally wire the
    primary and secondary lights in _series_. (The only exception I know
    of is the now-discontinued Lightspin.) That's because a generator is
    roughly a constant current device, and its voltage output varies with
    the resistance it sees. If it sees the double resistance of two
    incandescent bulbs, it puts out essentially double voltage to power
    them.

    So how do the LED lamps behave? Do you really wire two of them in
    parallel?

    - Frank Krygowski

  10. Quoted message said:

    So how do the LED lamps behave? Do you really wire two of them in
    parallel?


    A bare LED is a forward biased diode: On the Luxeons that I have
    the forward voltage is close to 3.2 volts, independent of current.
    Driven from a standard 3 watt bike generator, series wiring will
    allow uniform power distribution, but parallel wiring will not
    guarantee it. Forward voltage is a property of individual diodes
    and temperature; as they warm up, it goes down. A diode with
    slightly lower forward voltage will tend to draw more current,
    get hotter as a result and go into thermal runaway.

    Whether this is a practical problem for bicycle lighting systems
    is not at all clear; as a matter of good practice, parallel wiring
    of LEDs is generally avoided unless current limiters are used in
    series with each LED. The current limiter can be as simple and cheap
    as a resistor, but if you want efficiency a switching power supply
    is more suitable.

    Here's the setup I arrived at, the high-power LEDs are ballasted by
    the generator, the taillight circuit is ballasted by resistors:
    http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/

    hth,

    bob prohaska

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