Re: Paul Smith

Tom Crispin said:

Brimstone said:

Quoted message said:

> 2.. Cyclist should dismount if they are waiting at a junction and
> a lorry positions itself to their right at junctions.

Eh!? And climb over the railings?

How about those who cause the deaths to take some responsibility.

If someone is crushed by a lorry after pulling away from traffic
lights then they are the architect of their own misfortune.

Are you going to justify that remark?

If you are a cycling instructor then it should be blindingly obvious to you.

But the general thrust is quite simple. The lorry is bigger than the
cyclist. Keep clear.

Brimstone said:

If you are a cycling instructor then it should be blindingly obvious to you.

But the general thrust is quite simple. The lorry is bigger than the
cyclist. Keep clear.

If you ever use the roads it should be blindingly obvious that you
don't always get to choose.

So let's say I'm at some lights, just behind the ASL and after I
got there an HGV pulls up behind me. The lights change but I stay
put a moment (maybe I'm turning right and the way isn't clear yet)
and the truck rolls over me because the drver's on the 'phone and
didn't look down... That's all my fault, I should have seen it
coming and done something differently?[1]

Pete.

[1] What, exactly? Perhaps you'd let us know as you seem to be
know more about it than the qualified instructors here (I'm one
too, btw).
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Brimstone said:

Tom Crispin said:

Brimstone said:

>> 2.. Cyclist should dismount if they are waiting at a junction
>> and a lorry positions itself to their right at junctions.
>
> Eh!? And climb over the railings?
>
> How about those who cause the deaths to take some responsibility.
>
If someone is crushed by a lorry after pulling away from traffic
lights then they are the architect of their own misfortune.

Are you going to justify that remark?

If you are a cycling instructor then it should be blindingly obvious to you.

But the general thrust is quite simple. The lorry is bigger than the
cyclist. Keep clear.

So imagine I'm stopped at traffic lights and a lorry pulls up - what
am I supposed to do in your fairy-tale world? Just disappear?
Evaporate into thin air? Or do you actually think I should dismount
and climb over the railings, taking my bike with me?

Perhaps you think I should telepathically disintegrate the lorry?

Idiot.

--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Brimstone said:

Tom Crispin said:

Brimstone said:

>> 2.. Cyclist should dismount if they are waiting at a junction and
>> a lorry positions itself to their right at junctions.
>
> Eh!? And climb over the railings?
>
> How about those who cause the deaths to take some responsibility.
>
If someone is crushed by a lorry after pulling away from traffic
lights then they are the architect of their own misfortune.

Are you going to justify that remark?

If you are a cycling instructor then it should be blindingly obvious to
you.

But the general thrust is quite simple. The lorry is bigger than the
cyclist. Keep clear.

Is the wrong answer.

The law is quite simple: the cyclist has a right to be on the road, the
truck driver has a licence. The licence can (and in this case should) be
taken away; the right can't.

Whether or not the cyclist is obeying the law, it is the duty of every other
road user (including the cyclist, of course) to avoid a collision. However,
if the cyclist was obeying the law, the truck driver hasn't any defence.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Due to financial constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel
has been switched off.

Ian Smith said:

Brimstone said:

Tom Crispin said:

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:09:13 -0000, "Brimstone"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>>> 2.. Cyclist should dismount if they are waiting at a junction
>>> and a lorry positions itself to their right at junctions.
>> Eh!? And climb over the railings?
>>
>> How about those who cause the deaths to take some responsibility.
>>
> If someone is crushed by a lorry after pulling away from traffic
> lights then they are the architect of their own misfortune.
Are you going to justify that remark?

If you are a cycling instructor then it should be blindingly obvious to you.

But the general thrust is quite simple. The lorry is bigger than the
cyclist. Keep clear.

So imagine I'm stopped at traffic lights and a lorry pulls up - what
am I supposed to do in your fairy-tale world? Just disappear?
Evaporate into thin air? Or do you actually think I should dismount
and climb over the railings, taking my bike with me?

If it was a case of being killed or jumping over I'd go for the olympic
record.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps you think I should telepathically disintegrate the lorry?

Perhaps you should take more care about getting into such situations.

Quoted message said:

Idiot.

Agreed.

Tom Crispin said:

Brimstone said:

Quoted message said:

> 2.. Cyclist should dismount if they are waiting at a junction and
> a lorry positions itself to their right at junctions.

Eh!? And climb over the railings?

How about those who cause the deaths to take some responsibility.

If someone is crushed by a lorry after pulling away from traffic
lights then they are the architect of their own misfortune.

Are you going to justify that remark?

My personal thought on this is it takes two to create an incident #1. I
always partly blame myself if I have an incident. I think how I could have
avoided it - should my speed have been different, should I have made more
visual checks, should my positioning have been different?

I never just rant and rave about blame. If I am dead, who was to blame isn't
going to help me. So I drive defensivly, sometimes taking some form of
action that I shouldn't need to.

#1 Except in those circumstances you could do nothing. Plane crashes on you,
driver has heart attack and his vehicle bursts through the railings straight
at you - acts of god.

--
MrBitsy

Peter Clinch said:

Brimstone said:

If you are a cycling instructor then it should be blindingly obvious
to you. But the general thrust is quite simple. The lorry is bigger than
the
cyclist. Keep clear.

If you ever use the roads it should be blindingly obvious that you
don't always get to choose.

So let's say I'm at some lights, just behind the ASL and after I
got there an HGV pulls up behind me. The lights change but I stay
put a moment (maybe I'm turning right and the way isn't clear yet)
and the truck rolls over me because the drver's on the 'phone and
didn't look down... That's all my fault, I should have seen it
coming and done something differently?[1]

Pete.

[1] What, exactly? Perhaps you'd let us know as you seem to be
know more about it than the qualified instructors here (I'm one
too, btw).

Why choose such a pathetic example?

Ian Smith said:

Brimstone said:

Tom Crispin said:

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:09:13 -0000, "Brimstone"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>>> 2.. Cyclist should dismount if they are waiting at a junction
>>> and a lorry positions itself to their right at junctions.
>>
>> Eh!? And climb over the railings?
>>
>> How about those who cause the deaths to take some responsibility.
>>
> If someone is crushed by a lorry after pulling away from traffic
> lights then they are the architect of their own misfortune.

Are you going to justify that remark?

If you are a cycling instructor then it should be blindingly
obvious to you.

But the general thrust is quite simple. The lorry is bigger than the
cyclist. Keep clear.

So imagine I'm stopped at traffic lights and a lorry pulls up - what
am I supposed to do in your fairy-tale world? Just disappear?
Evaporate into thin air? Or do you actually think I should dismount
and climb over the railings, taking my bike with me?

Perhaps you think I should telepathically disintegrate the lorry?

Idiot.

So glad you recognise your own failings.

Peter Clinch said:

Brimstone said:

If you are a cycling instructor then it should be blindingly obvious
to you. But the general thrust is quite simple. The lorry is bigger than
the
cyclist. Keep clear.

If you ever use the roads it should be blindingly obvious that you
don't always get to choose.

So let's say I'm at some lights, just behind the ASL and after I
got there an HGV pulls up behind me. The lights change but I stay
put a moment (maybe I'm turning right and the way isn't clear yet)
and the truck rolls over me because the drver's on the 'phone and
didn't look down... That's all my fault, I should have seen it
coming and done something differently?[1]

Hey, the roads can be made dangerous by those that use them - fact of modern
life.

I was once at a set of traffic lights in a car. I was in the correct lane
and showing the correct signal. I was hit from behind, a collision big
enough to right off the car. Luckily for me, I survived. I did nothing wrong
and the driver that hit me was clearly in the wrong.

Short of walking everywhere there was nothing I could do. I can either
accept the risks and drive, or walk everywhere. I have chosen to continue
driving. I did go to the IAM and RoSPA for extra training and I passed both
courses. The fact I did so does not guarantee my safety.

We can only do our best.

Quoted message said:

[1] What, exactly? Perhaps you'd let us know as you seem to be
know more about it than the qualified instructors here (I'm one
too, btw).

Nothing. In that situation, the cyclist was in the wrong place at the wrong
time. Just look how well pilots are trained - they still make errors and
planes still crash - did you stop flying because of it? Maybe you accept the
small risk for the benefit flying gives you.

--
MrBitsy

Ian Smith said:

Brimstone said:

Tom Crispin said:

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:09:13 -0000, "Brimstone"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>>> 2.. Cyclist should dismount if they are waiting at a junction
>>> and a lorry positions itself to their right at junctions.
>>
>> Eh!? And climb over the railings?
>>
>> How about those who cause the deaths to take some responsibility.
>>
> If someone is crushed by a lorry after pulling away from traffic
> lights then they are the architect of their own misfortune.

Are you going to justify that remark?

If you are a cycling instructor then it should be blindingly
obvious to you.

But the general thrust is quite simple. The lorry is bigger than the
cyclist. Keep clear.

So imagine I'm stopped at traffic lights and a lorry pulls up - what
am I supposed to do in your fairy-tale world?

We don't need to look at the fairy tale world - this happens in the real
one.

Quoted message said:

Just disappear? Evaporate into thin air? Or do you actually think I
should
dismount and climb over the railings, taking my bike with me?

You should do something so you stay alive. We know the lorry driver should
be looking in the mirrors. We all know the lorry driver shouldn't be
reading - how is this going to be of any benefit to you dead?

Quoted message said:

Perhaps you think I should telepathically disintegrate the lorry?

Quoted message said:

Idiot.

I would suggest doing nothing, based on blame, is the idiotic thing in your
post.

--
MrBitsy

Brimstone said:

Why choose such a pathetic example?

Pathetic in what sense? That it immediately demonstrates your
"point" was an over-generalised sweeping assumption that's no help
to anybody?

Why choose such a pathetic, over-generalised sweeping assumption?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

NM said:

Ian Smith said:

Perhaps you think I should telepathically disintegrate the lorry?

Perhaps you should take more care about getting into such situations.

How?

Come on - stop the empty pointless nonsense and be specific. Tell me
how to make 40 tonnes of HGV disappear when it comes up behind me.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

MrBitsy said:

Hey, the roads can be made dangerous by those that use them - fact of modern
life.

I know that, and you know that, but Brimstone seems to be working
in some fantasy land where I shouldn't be close to lorries because
they're bigger than me.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]

MrBitsy said:

My personal thought on this is it takes two to create an incident #1.

#1 Except in those circumstances you could do nothing. Plane crashes on you,
driver has heart attack and his vehicle bursts through the railings straight
at you - acts of god.

Things like, HGV driver pulls up alongside at traffic light junction
then drives over you when the lights go green? Things like the very
case under discussion, for example?

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Brimstone said:

Ian Smith said:

So imagine I'm stopped at traffic lights and a lorry pulls up - what
am I supposed to do in your fairy-tale world? Just disappear?
Evaporate into thin air? Or do you actually think I should dismount
and climb over the railings, taking my bike with me?

Perhaps you think I should telepathically disintegrate the lorry?

Idiot.

So glad you recognise your own failings.

So, I'll take that as an admission you have absolutely no
justification for the nonsense you spouted then, since you would
presumably have offered it if any of it existed.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Ian Smith said:

["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]

MrBitsy said:

My personal thought on this is it takes two to create an incident
#1.

#1 Except in those circumstances you could do nothing. Plane
crashes on you, driver has heart attack and his vehicle bursts
through the railings straight at you - acts of god.

Things like, HGV driver pulls up alongside at traffic light junction
then drives over you when the lights go green? Things like the very
case under discussion, for example?

Whoosh

--
MrBitsy

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch says...

Quoted message said:

MrBitsy said:

Hey, the roads can be made dangerous by those that use them - fact of modern
life.

I know that, and you know that, but Brimstone seems to be working
in some fantasy land where I shouldn't be close to lorries because
they're bigger than me.

No, you shouldn't put yourself in a position where you can't be seen.

--
Conor

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.

On 16 Dec 2007 17:48:46 GMT,

Ian Smith said:

NM said:

Ian Smith said:

Perhaps you think I should telepathically disintegrate the lorry?

Perhaps you should take more care about getting into such situations.

How?

Come on - stop the empty pointless nonsense and be specific. Tell me
how to make 40 tonnes of HGV disappear when it comes up behind me.

You're on a trike, it's easy. You just lean over, undo the valve cap and
let the air out of its tyres. Job done.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

Peter Clinch said:

MrBitsy said:

Hey, the roads can be made dangerous by those that use them - fact
of modern life.

I know that, and you know that, but Brimstone seems to be working
in some fantasy land where I shouldn't be close to lorries because
they're bigger than me.

He has said no such thing.
--
MrBitsy