fixed gear question

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jeff said:

...about to put together my first fixed gear on a vertical-dropout
frame I already own.

...using a white industries eccentric hub that is on order.

...thinking of having the availability of two cogs, either using one
on either side of the hub, using one of the dual cog sets, or just
being able to swap the two out depending on whether I want to
practice spinning or increasing power by pushing high gears.

The hub claims about 15 mm of adjustment, I believe, but I don't know
how that translates to how much difference in the number of teeth
between 2 cogs of different sizes the adjustment will compensate for
before requiring a chain of a different length.

Can anyone give me a hint?

You're typically going to use a 1-3 tooth difference between cogs, so
the hub ought to be able to accommodate that. Or use a Surly Dingle
double cog on one side and skip flipping the wheel around.

Jeff said:

...about to put together my first fixed gear on a vertical-dropout frame I
already own.

...using a white industries eccentric hub that is on order.

...thinking of having the availability of two cogs, either using one on
either side of the hub, using one of the dual cog sets, or just being able
to swap the two out depending on whether I want to practice spinning or
increasing power by pushing high gears.

The hub claims about 15 mm of adjustment, I believe, but I don't know how
that translates to how much difference in the number of teeth between 2 cogs
of different sizes the adjustment will compensate for before requiring a
chain of a different length.

Each tooth added/subtracted moves the axle 1/8" (3 mm.)

When I was running one of those hubs on my Rambouillet, I had a 15
fixed, 17 freewheel. Worked fine with both, though I hardly ever used
the freeweel.

Sheldon "Numbers" Brown
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Most things having to do with fixed-gear/SS are bone stupid, |
| and folks who usually work on modern bikes aren't used to |
| thinking at that caveman level. -- Aaron Meberg |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Each tooth added/subtracted moves the axle 1/8" (3 mm.)

When I was running one of those hubs on my Rambouillet, I had a 15
fixed, 17 freewheel. Worked fine with both, though I hardly ever used
the freeweel.

Sheldon "Numbers" Brown

....good to hear from you. Most everything I know about fixed gears at this
point has come from your web pages.

So this implies that it is possible to have a difference of 4 or 5 teeth
between the two cogs?

Jeff

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Jeff said:

...about to put together my first fixed gear on a vertical-dropout frame
I already own.

...using a white industries eccentric hub that is on order.

...thinking of having the availability of two cogs, either using one on
either side of the hub, using one of the dual cog sets, or just being
able to swap the two out depending on whether I want to practice
spinning or increasing power by pushing high gears.

The hub claims about 15 mm of adjustment, I believe, but I don't know
how that translates to how much difference in the number of teeth
between 2 cogs of different sizes the adjustment will compensate for
before requiring a chain of a different length.

Can anyone give me a hint?

Jeff

I use one of these hubs and suffer with the equivalent of "axle creep"
(although it's really the rotation of the eccentric, not the axle
creeping forwards). The cause, I think, is that neither the bolt
washers or axle ends have any serrations for ease of adjustment.

It's been suggested to me that the force causing this "creep" is
unlikely to be pedalling torque, but road shock, and one solution is to
fit the hub so the axle is *below* the bolts rather than above it. This
means potholes etc are more likely to tighten the chain than loosen it,
since the hub will be jarred in the other direction. Any thoughts?

Jeff said:

...about to put together my first fixed gear on a vertical-dropout frame I
already own.

Oh for Pete's sake. Do you not know what "jump the shark" means? Did
you buy your first bell bottoms in 1983?

Quoted message said:

...using a white industries eccentric hub that is on order.

....which is a little like spending $10,000 on an adapter so you can
yoke your car to a team of oxen.

I spent a couple of years with a fixie of my own devising, which was a
perfectly fine bike except for the fixed gear. On the occasions when
I enjoyed riding it, it was in a practical-joke-on-myself sort of way
(and the joke was a lot funnier in gently-sloped Austin than it was in
crazy-steep Seattle). The bike wasn't good for quite as many laughs
after I put a 7-speed gearhub on it, but it was a much more pleasant
and practical ride.

Just a couple of weeks ago, I took the opportunity to build up a new
old bike with all the virtues of a hipster fixie-- stylish yet junky
vintage lugged frame, peculiar narrow handlebars, clean and pure
lines, uncluttered by any mod cons. I managed at the same time to
avoid all the fixie's vices, which is to say I didn't use a fixed
gear.

Instead, I laced up a nice new coaster brake hub to a sturdy 700c
rim. At first I bowed to good sense and equipped the thing with a
period-appropriate front brake, but after riding it I found that I was
slightly more likely to bark the thing on the bike's downtube than I
was to use it for decelerating.

My feet remembered well the old childhood routine of pushing back into
the trailing pedal to glide smoothly to a stop. Riding a svelte
coaster braked bike is as natural as walking and a great deal more
graceful. I had forgotten the utter silence of coasting on a bike
like this. It really does offer all the simplicity and elegant
aesthetics of the most elementary track bike, along with all the
joyful abandon and freedom of your first two-wheeler. (And no runaway
pedals or severed fingers.)

So much better than a masochistic fixed gear bike!

Chalo

Chalo Colina said:

Jeff said:

...about to put together my first fixed gear on a vertical-dropout frame I
already own.

Oh for Pete's sake. Do you not know what "jump the shark" means? Did
you buy your first bell bottoms in 1983?

Quoted message said:

...using a white industries eccentric hub that is on order.

...which is a little like spending $10,000 on an adapter so you can
yoke your car to a team of oxen....

Hey Chalo, what you really need is a fixed-gear recumbent! 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Chalo said:

Just a couple of weeks ago, I took the opportunity to build up a new
old bike with all the virtues of a hipster fixie-- stylish yet junky
vintage lugged frame, peculiar narrow handlebars, clean and pure
lines, uncluttered by any mod cons. I managed at the same time to
avoid all the fixie's vices, which is to say I didn't use a fixed
gear.

Instead, I laced up a nice new coaster brake hub to a sturdy 700c
rim.

I did this to convert my old track bike to a commuter bike when I
stopped racing, using a ca. 1938 Bendix hub I found in a parts box in my
basement (I have no idea where I got that hub... odd). It was great. I
finally put the track bike back together with all the track stuff and
sold it to a newbie track racer, and used the wheel in another frame I
built for that purpose. It was more comfortable than the track bike
and- as before- a great ride. As you mention, it's just silent and
smooth.

One of the fun things was riding through downtown Minneapolis and
watching the messengers and urban hipsters appraise my brakeless fixed
gear bike... and then coasting to watch their faces as they suddenly
thought I was stupid enough to ride a brakeless bike. Made me smile
quite frequently. I also had several car drivers roll down their
windows and ask- with worried expressions- "where are your brakes?"

Now that bike has a SRAM T3 coaster brake wheel, which is also very fun.
I've really been enjoying it. It feels surprisingly efficient, not
noticeably different from my derailleur bikes in this regard. In fact
it often feels more efficient, but of course that's not reliable.

Chalo said:

Oh for Pete's sake. Do you not know what "jump the shark" means? Did
you buy your first bell bottoms in 1983?

Chalo...

Quoted message said:

...which is a little like spending $10,000 on an adapter so you can
yoke your car to a team of oxen.

Dude...

Quoted message said:

I spent a couple of years with a fixie of my own devising, which was a
perfectly fine bike except for the fixed gear. On the occasions when
I enjoyed riding it, it was in a practical-joke-on-myself sort of way
(and the joke was a lot funnier in gently-sloped Austin than it was in
crazy-steep Seattle). The bike wasn't good for quite as many laughs
after I put a 7-speed gearhub on it, but it was a much more pleasant
and practical ride.

Point taken.

Quoted message said:

Just a couple of weeks ago, I took the opportunity to build up a new
old bike with all the virtues of a hipster fixie-- stylish yet junky
vintage lugged frame, peculiar narrow handlebars, clean and pure
lines, uncluttered by any mod cons. I managed at the same time to
avoid all the fixie's vices, which is to say I didn't use a fixed
gear.

Aha.

"hipster".

One of the funny things I've seen in life is a guy (coulda been a
hipster, I guess) heading toward a red light (think it was Expo and
Enfield) with no brakes, trying to figure out ASAP WTF he was GDN
(gonna do next). Such is the price of style sometimes.

I think I might have been the only guy riding fixed or single speed
road here back in the mid-late eighties <g>. Now you can go buy
prebuilt new ones in a couple of different flavors brand spanking new
from a couple of the "majors"; one has "track bars" and all. Funny how
times change.

Quoted message said:

My feet remembered well the old childhood routine of pushing back into
the trailing pedal to glide smoothly to a stop [coaster brake bike].

The other day I glided to a stop on our kickstand-equipped "comfort"
bike (Specialized Expo or something), and, for the first time in at
least 40 years, toed the kickstand down and stepped off with bike
parked.

Some people think muscle memory only operates in the short term.

There's a legitimate use for fixed IME/HO, involving working on your
spin and resistance. It's fun if you think it's fun. Otherwise, why
ever bother?

The "hidden coaster brake" thing sounds like fun, actually. --D-y

Tom Sherman said:

Chalo Colina said:

Jeff said:

...about to put together my first fixed gear on a vertical-dropout frame I
already own.

Oh for Pete's sake. Do you not know what "jump the shark" means? Did
you buy your first bell bottoms in 1983?

Quoted message said:

...using a white industries eccentric hub that is on order.

...which is a little like spending $10,000 on an adapter so you can
yoke your car to a team of oxen....

Hey Chalo, what you really need is a fixed-gear recumbent! 😉

Sure, but he'd better wear a helmet.

Quoted message said:

The "hidden coaster brake" thing sounds like fun, actually. --D-y

There's only so much you can hide. Gotta be a reaction arm somewhere...

--

John ([email hidden])

John Thompson said:

Dustoyevsky said:

The "hidden coaster brake" thing sounds like fun, actually.

There's only so much you can hide. Gotta be a reaction arm somewhere...

A coaster brake on a stripped-down road bike or track bike is just as
visible as it is on a kid bike. It becomes "invisible" to the degree
that it's out of context-- which is pretty invisible these days. One
day, fixies will be out of fashion and coaster braked road bikes will
be in fashion. At that time, the coaster hub will become conspicuous
because folks will be looking to see what kind it is.

But your observation makes me wonder how hard it would be to make a
special track-style dropout that had a boss to anchor a modified
stubby coaster brake arm. Hmm....

Chalo

Chalo said:

Jeff said:

...about to put together my first fixed gear on a vertical-dropout frame I
already own.

Oh for Pete's sake. Do you not know what "jump the shark" means? Did
you buy your first bell bottoms in 1983?

Quoted message said:

...using a white industries eccentric hub that is on order.

...which is a little like spending $10,000 on an adapter so you can
yoke your car to a team of oxen.

I spent a couple of years with a fixie of my own devising, which was a
perfectly fine bike except for the fixed gear. On the occasions when
I enjoyed riding it, it was in a practical-joke-on-myself sort of way
(and the joke was a lot funnier in gently-sloped Austin than it was in
crazy-steep Seattle). The bike wasn't good for quite as many laughs
after I put a 7-speed gearhub on it, but it was a much more pleasant
and practical ride.

Just a couple of weeks ago, I took the opportunity to build up a new
old bike with all the virtues of a hipster fixie-- stylish yet junky
vintage lugged frame, peculiar narrow handlebars, clean and pure
lines, uncluttered by any mod cons. I managed at the same time to
avoid all the fixie's vices, which is to say I didn't use a fixed
gear.

Instead, I laced up a nice new coaster brake hub to a sturdy 700c
rim. At first I bowed to good sense and equipped the thing with a
period-appropriate front brake, but after riding it I found that I was
slightly more likely to bark the thing on the bike's downtube than I
was to use it for decelerating.

My feet remembered well the old childhood routine of pushing back into
the trailing pedal to glide smoothly to a stop. Riding a svelte
coaster braked bike is as natural as walking and a great deal more
graceful. I had forgotten the utter silence of coasting on a bike
like this. It really does offer all the simplicity and elegant
aesthetics of the most elementary track bike, along with all the
joyful abandon and freedom of your first two-wheeler. (And no runaway
pedals or severed fingers.)

So much better than a masochistic fixed gear bike!

Chalo

I had to laugh as I read your post, Chalo.

A couple of years ago, after riding a single speed for about 3 years,
I built up a nice 700C wheel with a coaster brake hub, thinking this
would make a 'cool' ride.

I went out and did a nice 25 mile ride and, as I got back to the
house, I went to do what I always did on the single speed, which was
to 'pop' the front wheel up over the curb. In order to do that I
would stand, back pedal slightly to position my right foot at about 1
o'clock and 'go for it'.

Well, with the coaster brake, that 'back pedal slightly' caused the
bike to stop instantly and I did a big 'base over apex' and landed
sprawled on my back on the lawn.

The next day I replaced that wheel with a fixed gear wheel and life
has never been better.

Lewis.

*****

Quoted message said:

Chalo said:

Jeff said:

...about to put together my first fixed gear on a vertical-dropout frame I
already own.

Oh for Pete's sake. Do you not know what "jump the shark" means? Did
you buy your first bell bottoms in 1983?

Quoted message said:

...using a white industries eccentric hub that is on order.

...which is a little like spending $10,000 on an adapter so you can
yoke your car to a team of oxen.

I spent a couple of years with a fixie of my own devising, which was a
perfectly fine bike except for the fixed gear. On the occasions when
I enjoyed riding it, it was in a practical-joke-on-myself sort of way
(and the joke was a lot funnier in gently-sloped Austin than it was in
crazy-steep Seattle). The bike wasn't good for quite as many laughs
after I put a 7-speed gearhub on it, but it was a much more pleasant
and practical ride.

Just a couple of weeks ago, I took the opportunity to build up a new
old bike with all the virtues of a hipster fixie-- stylish yet junky
vintage lugged frame, peculiar narrow handlebars, clean and pure
lines, uncluttered by any mod cons. I managed at the same time to
avoid all the fixie's vices, which is to say I didn't use a fixed
gear.

Instead, I laced up a nice new coaster brake hub to a sturdy 700c
rim. At first I bowed to good sense and equipped the thing with a
period-appropriate front brake, but after riding it I found that I was
slightly more likely to bark the thing on the bike's downtube than I
was to use it for decelerating.

My feet remembered well the old childhood routine of pushing back into
the trailing pedal to glide smoothly to a stop. Riding a svelte
coaster braked bike is as natural as walking and a great deal more
graceful. I had forgotten the utter silence of coasting on a bike
like this. It really does offer all the simplicity and elegant
aesthetics of the most elementary track bike, along with all the
joyful abandon and freedom of your first two-wheeler. (And no runaway
pedals or severed fingers.)

So much better than a masochistic fixed gear bike!

Chalo

I had to laugh as I read your post, Chalo.

A couple of years ago, after riding a single speed for about 3 years,
I built up a nice 700C wheel with a coaster brake hub, thinking this
would make a 'cool' ride.

I went out and did a nice 25 mile ride and, as I got back to the
house, I went to do what I always did on the single speed, which was
to 'pop' the front wheel up over the curb. In order to do that I
would stand, back pedal slightly to position my right foot at about 1
o'clock and 'go for it'.

Well, with the coaster brake, that 'back pedal slightly' caused the
bike to stop instantly and I did a big 'base over apex' and landed
sprawled on my back on the lawn.

The next day I replaced that wheel with a fixed gear wheel and life
has never been better.

Lewis.

How did you hop up the curb with a fixed gear then?

Lou

Lou Holtman said:

How did you hop up the curb with a fixed gear then?

It's do-able. Think of pulling a sustained wheelie on a normal bike -
you have to keep pedalling then, too.

Zog The Undeniable said:

Lou Holtman said:

How did you hop up the curb with a fixed gear then?

It's do-able. Think of pulling a sustained wheelie on a normal bike -
you have to keep pedalling then, too.

That is also possible with a coaster brake hub, so no reason to switch ;-).
Here in the Netherlands most people of 40 years and older grew up with
coasterbrake hubs. Hopping on a curb was a daily routine...

Lou

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Chalo said:

John Thompson said:

Dustoyevsky said:

The "hidden coaster brake" thing sounds like fun, actually.

There's only so much you can hide. Gotta be a reaction arm
somewhere...

A coaster brake on a stripped-down road bike or track bike is just as
visible as it is on a kid bike. It becomes "invisible" to the degree
that it's out of context-- which is pretty invisible these days. One
day, fixies will be out of fashion and coaster braked road bikes will
be in fashion. At that time, the coaster hub will become conspicuous
because folks will be looking to see what kind it is.

But your observation makes me wonder how hard it would be to make a
special track-style dropout that had a boss to anchor a modified
stubby coaster brake arm. Hmm....

Put a peg on the dropout or chainstay and machine a slot into the brake
arm, to account for adjusting the chain tension.

Quoth Chalo:

Quoted message said:

A coaster brake on a stripped-down road bike or track bike is just as
visible as it is on a kid bike. It becomes "invisible" to the degree
that it's out of context-- which is pretty invisible these days. One
day, fixies will be out of fashion and coaster braked road bikes will
be in fashion. At that time, the coaster hub will become conspicuous
because folks will be looking to see what kind it is.

But your observation makes me wonder how hard it would be to make a
special track-style dropout that had a boss to anchor a modified
stubby coaster brake arm. Hmm....

Actually, Shimano's new "Coasting" line features such dropouts.

Personally, I despise coaster brakes. Here's my canned rant on the
subject:
<RANT>
I strongly dislike coaster brakes.

They make it hard to get started from a stop, because there's no easy
way to rotate the pedals to a good starting position.

Using a coaster brake as the _only_ brake on a bike is dangerous,
because if the chain breaks or derails you have no backup system.

I have an old Elgin balloon tire clunker that I used to use for
grocery runs on occasion but I stopped because I found it so
inconvenient. In particular, there was one place where I usually had
to stop at a traffic light on a downgrade. I would need to keep a
foot on the back pedal to keep the bike from rolling forward while
waiting for the light to change, then when I would get the green, I
had to put that foot down and quickly put the other foot on the front
pedal (which was really at too low an angle to get a good first
stroke.) I hate coaster brakes.
</RANT>
YMMV

Sheldon "Front Brake" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Remember that engineering is about trade-offs. None of |
| these systems are ideal, each of them has advantages and |
| disadvantages. Which issues are most important is a matter |
| of judgement and personal choice. Don't expect that you |
| will have the same priorities that I (or anyone else for |
| that matter) has. --David Wittenberg |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When I was running one of those hubs on my Rambouillet, I had a 15
fixed, 17 freewheel. Worked fine with both, though I hardly ever used
the freeweel.

I was wondering about that, do fixed-gear riders actually take the time
to flop the wheel?
Also would there be extra work to flop an eccentric hub?
-tom

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jeff said:

So this implies that it is possible to have a difference of 4 or 5 teeth
between the two cogs?

Not really, that would require that all the measurements work out
perfectly. (ie. the chain tension is perfect for both cogs at
both ends of the adjustment ).

Personally, I don't seen much point in a double fixed gear setup.
You can't really get enough range to make a difference and
swapping is a PITA. I do see some point in having a freewheel on
one side as a backup/change of pace. Otherwise, just pick a gear
and live with it.

_ Booker C. Bense