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Newbie, just starting, question!

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
6 December 2007
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9 May 2023
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Nina
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  1. Before I wrote this, I spent a lot of time reading the FAQ and a ton
    of low-carb sites, and I can't seem to find anything that specifically
    addresses this.

    I've been doing low-carb for a few days... not quite induction, as I'm
    trying to sneak my husband onto this, long story, so I haven't been
    able to eliminate a few things, but certainly in about the 30 carb/day
    range. And while the immediate effects of this have been pretty
    positive... more energy, not hungry, etc.... I also feel, well,
    "weird" would best describe it. Edgy. Like it's hard to move in a
    way. Thirsty. And, mostly, stuffed (which after being generally
    hungry on most eating plans, is a good thing, but it still feels odd).
    Headachy.

    Most side effect lists mention things like carb cravings (of which I
    have none) or muscle aches... nothing that seems like this to me. I
    think I'd just kind of like someone to tell me that it's normal to
    feel odd adjusting to a different type of food, and that I'll feel
    more like myself soon!

    Nina

  2. Hello Nina and welcome to the group.

    Nina said:

    Before I wrote this, I spent a lot of time reading the FAQ and a ton
    of low-carb sites, and I can't seem to find anything that specifically
    addresses this.

    How refreshing!

    Quoted message said:

    I've been doing low-carb for a few days... not quite induction, as I'm
    trying to sneak my husband onto this, long story, so I haven't been
    able to eliminate a few things, but certainly in about the 30 carb/day
    range. And while the immediate effects of this have been pretty
    positive... more energy, not hungry, etc.... I also feel, well,
    "weird" would best describe it. Edgy. Like it's hard to move in a
    way. Thirsty. And, mostly, stuffed (which after being generally
    hungry on most eating plans, is a good thing, but it still feels odd).
    Headachy.

    Most side effect lists mention things like carb cravings (of which I
    have none) or muscle aches... nothing that seems like this to me. I
    think I'd just kind of like someone to tell me that it's normal to
    feel odd adjusting to a different type of food, and that I'll feel
    more like myself soon!

    Nina

    If it's only been a few days you've been feeling funny, I'd guess it's
    just your body adjusting.

    Cause hey, it's normal to feel odd adjusting to a different type of
    food, and that you'll feel more like yourself soon! πŸ˜‰

    Seriously, it is different. Take it easy, don't do too much exercising
    until you finish adjusting a bit. See how you feel in another week or
    two before deciding if this will work well for you; it does take time.

    Good luck!

    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  3. On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:27:21 -0500, Jackie Patti <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Hello Nina and welcome to the group.

    Nina said:

    Before I wrote this, I spent a lot of time reading the FAQ and a ton
    of low-carb sites, and I can't seem to find anything that specifically
    addresses this.

    How refreshing!

    :-)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I've been doing low-carb for a few days... not quite induction, as I'm
    trying to sneak my husband onto this, long story, so I haven't been
    able to eliminate a few things, but certainly in about the 30 carb/day
    range. And while the immediate effects of this have been pretty
    positive... more energy, not hungry, etc.... I also feel, well,
    "weird" would best describe it. Edgy. Like it's hard to move in a
    way. Thirsty. And, mostly, stuffed (which after being generally
    hungry on most eating plans, is a good thing, but it still feels odd).
    Headachy.

    Most side effect lists mention things like carb cravings (of which I
    have none) or muscle aches... nothing that seems like this to me. I
    think I'd just kind of like someone to tell me that it's normal to
    feel odd adjusting to a different type of food, and that I'll feel
    more like myself soon!

    Nina

    If it's only been a few days you've been feeling funny, I'd guess it's
    just your body adjusting.

    Cause hey, it's normal to feel odd adjusting to a different type of
    food, and that you'll feel more like yourself soon! πŸ˜‰

    Thank you!

    Quoted message said:

    Seriously, it is different. Take it easy, don't do too much exercising
    until you finish adjusting a bit. See how you feel in another week or
    two before deciding if this will work well for you; it does take time.

    I think it's partly that I've been eating a pretty low fat diet for
    the last couple of years (with, I might add, absolutely no weight loss
    at all), and the higher fat level just makes me feel, well, fat.
    (Which I am, but I'd like to feel less fat!) It took me quite a while
    to get used to a far lower level of fat... and like it, really... but
    now this level of fat is just not what I'm used to.

    I am really hoping that this will work, though, because I am really
    tired of being hungry and tired all the time AND not losing weight.

    Nina

  4. Nina said:

    On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:27:21 -0500, Jackie Patti <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Hello Nina and welcome to the group.

    Nina said:

    Before I wrote this, I spent a lot of time reading the FAQ and a ton
    of low-carb sites, and I can't seem to find anything that specifically
    addresses this.


    How refreshing!

    :-)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I've been doing low-carb for a few days... not quite induction, as I'm
    trying to sneak my husband onto this, long story, so I haven't been
    able to eliminate a few things, but certainly in about the 30 carb/day
    range. And while the immediate effects of this have been pretty
    positive... more energy, not hungry, etc.... I also feel, well,
    "weird" would best describe it. Edgy. Like it's hard to move in a
    way. Thirsty. And, mostly, stuffed (which after being generally
    hungry on most eating plans, is a good thing, but it still feels odd).
    Headachy.

    Most side effect lists mention things like carb cravings (of which I
    have none) or muscle aches... nothing that seems like this to me. I
    think I'd just kind of like someone to tell me that it's normal to
    feel odd adjusting to a different type of food, and that I'll feel
    more like myself soon!

    Nina


    If it's only been a few days you've been feeling funny, I'd guess it's
    just your body adjusting.

    Cause hey, it's normal to feel odd adjusting to a different type of
    food, and that you'll feel more like yourself soon! πŸ˜‰

    Thank you!

    Quoted message said:

    Seriously, it is different. Take it easy, don't do too much exercising
    until you finish adjusting a bit. See how you feel in another week or
    two before deciding if this will work well for you; it does take time.

    I think it's partly that I've been eating a pretty low fat diet for
    the last couple of years (with, I might add, absolutely no weight loss
    at all), and the higher fat level just makes me feel, well, fat.
    (Which I am, but I'd like to feel less fat!) It took me quite a while
    to get used to a far lower level of fat... and like it, really... but
    now this level of fat is just not what I'm used to.

    I am really hoping that this will work, though, because I am really
    tired of being hungry and tired all the time AND not losing weight.

    Nina

    My experience was that taking shortcuts was a waste of time and energy.

    Only when I got tired of lack of success and went back and read the bulk
    of the Atkins book again did I follow what the plan had in it, rather
    than what I "felt" was equivalent and easier, did the weight come
    rolling off.

  5. Nina said:

    On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:27:21 -0500, Jackie Patti <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Hello Nina and welcome to the group.

    Nina said:

    Before I wrote this, I spent a lot of time reading the FAQ and a ton
    of low-carb sites, and I can't seem to find anything that
    specifically addresses this.

    How refreshing!

    :-)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I've been doing low-carb for a few days... not quite induction, as
    I'm trying to sneak my husband onto this, long story, so I haven't
    been able to eliminate a few things, but certainly in about the 30
    carb/day range. And while the immediate effects of this have been
    pretty positive... more energy, not hungry, etc.... I also feel,
    well, "weird" would best describe it. Edgy. Like it's hard to
    move in a way. Thirsty. And, mostly, stuffed (which after being
    generally hungry on most eating plans, is a good thing, but it
    still feels odd). Headachy.

    Most side effect lists mention things like carb cravings (of which I
    have none) or muscle aches... nothing that seems like this to me. I
    think I'd just kind of like someone to tell me that it's normal to
    feel odd adjusting to a different type of food, and that I'll feel
    more like myself soon!

    Nina

    If it's only been a few days you've been feeling funny, I'd guess
    it's just your body adjusting.

    Cause hey, it's normal to feel odd adjusting to a different type of
    food, and that you'll feel more like yourself soon! πŸ˜‰

    Thank you!

    Quoted message said:

    Seriously, it is different. Take it easy, don't do too much
    exercising until you finish adjusting a bit. See how you feel in
    another week or two before deciding if this will work well for you;
    it does take time.

    I think it's partly that I've been eating a pretty low fat diet for
    the last couple of years (with, I might add, absolutely no weight loss
    at all), and the higher fat level just makes me feel, well, fat.
    (Which I am, but I'd like to feel less fat!) It took me quite a while
    to get used to a far lower level of fat... and like it, really... but
    now this level of fat is just not what I'm used to.

    I am really hoping that this will work, though, because I am really
    tired of being hungry and tired all the time AND not losing weight.

    Welcome NinaπŸ™‚ You can't be in a better place for the help you needπŸ™‚

    best

    Ophelia

  6. Nina said:


    I've been doing low-carb for a few days... not quite induction, as I'm
    trying to sneak my husband onto this, long story, so I haven't been
    able to eliminate a few things, but certainly in about the 30 carb/day
    range. And while the immediate effects of this have been pretty
    positive... more energy, not hungry, etc.... I also feel, well,
    "weird" would best describe it. Edgy. Like it's hard to move in a
    way. Thirsty. And, mostly, stuffed (which after being generally
    hungry on most eating plans, is a good thing, but it still feels odd).
    Headachy.

    All classic symptoms of early ketonuria for plenty of people. In
    about two weeks the body makes an adjustment and most of it
    goes away. Except the thirst which seems to last a lot longer
    for some folks.

    As to feeling stuffed, you're learning that fat and protein is just as
    filling as carb calorie for calorie but the hunger doesn't come back
    nearly as soon. In the long run that's probably the single biggest
    advantage that low carbing has.

  7. Nina said:

    I think it's partly that I've been eating a pretty low fat diet for
    the last couple of years (with, I might add, absolutely no weight loss
    at all), and the higher fat level just makes me feel, well, fat.
    (Which I am, but I'd like to feel less fat!) It took me quite a while
    to get used to a far lower level of fat... and like it, really... but
    now this level of fat is just not what I'm used to.

    I am really hoping that this will work, though, because I am really
    tired of being hungry and tired all the time AND not losing weight.

    I had that experience also. I did a very strict low-fat diet for a year.

    Since I'm diabetic, this was a disaster. This was a long time ago,
    before I had a bg meter. Hate to think what my bg must've been that year.

    I was hungry all the time also. And bloated. And by the end of the
    year, I wound up so fatigued, I could barely get to work and spent all
    the rest of my time in bed. And... I gained weight!

    My body just doesn't like low-fat. I've been low-carbing for over a
    decade now and it works very well for me.

    That doesn't mean it will be best for you, but it will take a couple
    weeks before your body adjusts and then you can see how you feel.

    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  8. Nina said:

    I've been doing low-carb for a few days... not quite induction, as I'm
    trying to sneak my husband onto this, long story, so I haven't been
    able to eliminate a few things, but certainly in about the 30 carb/day
    range. And while the immediate effects of this have been pretty
    positive... more energy, not hungry, etc.... I also feel, well,
    "weird" would best describe it. Edgy. Like it's hard to move in a
    way. Thirsty. And, mostly, stuffed (which after being generally
    hungry on most eating plans, is a good thing, but it still feels odd).
    Headachy.

    Thirst can be an issue; low-carbers tend to need more water for a couple
    reasons. When the body stores extra sugar as glycogen in places like
    the muscles, it stores water along with it. In the early days of
    low-carb, you tend to burn off a lot of this glycogen, releasing the
    water that was with it, so you don't have that large reserve of water
    anymore. The body also uses water to flush out the ketones that are
    produced when you burn fat. To put it simply, when you're low-carbing,
    the body needs more water for all the things it's trying to do.

    I rarely get headaches anymore, but when I do, I can usually attribute
    it to mild dehydration, because it'll come after a day I was out doing
    stuff and not getting my usual fluids. So those two might be tied
    together. Make sure to drink plenty of water. (I get about a gallon a
    day in the form of weak, unsweetened, decaf tea.) Also, making sure you
    get enough potassium and salt will help ensure you retain enough water
    that you won't get dehydrated suddenly.

    I think I know what you mean about feeling "weird." I called it
    "restless laziness." It was like I could feel this restless energy that
    I wasn't used to, but wasn't really up to doing anything with it yet.
    Gradually, my mind and body seemed to get used to the idea, and I
    started feeling normal again--just somewhat more energetic and
    ambitious.

    --
    Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

  9. Aaron Baugher said:
    Nina said:

    I've been doing low-carb for a few days... not quite induction, as I'm
    trying to sneak my husband onto this, long story, so I haven't been
    able to eliminate a few things, but certainly in about the 30 carb/day
    range. And while the immediate effects of this have been pretty
    positive... more energy, not hungry, etc.... I also feel, well,
    "weird" would best describe it. Edgy. Like it's hard to move in a
    way. Thirsty. And, mostly, stuffed (which after being generally
    hungry on most eating plans, is a good thing, but it still feels odd).
    Headachy.

    Thirst can be an issue; low-carbers tend to need more water for a couple
    reasons. When the body stores extra sugar as glycogen in places like
    the muscles, it stores water along with it. In the early days of
    low-carb, you tend to burn off a lot of this glycogen, releasing the
    water that was with it, so you don't have that large reserve of water
    anymore. The body also uses water to flush out the ketones that are
    produced when you burn fat. To put it simply, when you're low-carbing,
    the body needs more water for all the things it's trying to do.

    That makes sense to me. I've always been a big water drinker, but I
    now sort of feel like the camel stopping at the oasis to refill every
    time I get near the sink...

    Quoted message said:

    I rarely get headaches anymore, but when I do, I can usually attribute
    it to mild dehydration, because it'll come after a day I was out doing
    stuff and not getting my usual fluids. So those two might be tied
    together. Make sure to drink plenty of water. (I get about a gallon a
    day in the form of weak, unsweetened, decaf tea.) Also, making sure you
    get enough potassium and salt will help ensure you retain enough water
    that you won't get dehydrated suddenly.

    I think I know what you mean about feeling "weird." I called it
    "restless laziness." It was like I could feel this restless energy that
    I wasn't used to, but wasn't really up to doing anything with it yet.
    Gradually, my mind and body seemed to get used to the idea, and I
    started feeling normal again--just somewhat more energetic and
    ambitious.

    That's exactly what I mean, or a lot of it anyway. I can tell that I
    have more energy, but yet everything seems like this enormous huge
    effort and I can't seem to make myself DO anything.

  10. Doug Freyburger said:
    Nina said:


    I've been doing low-carb for a few days... not quite induction, as I'm
    trying to sneak my husband onto this, long story, so I haven't been
    able to eliminate a few things, but certainly in about the 30 carb/day
    range. And while the immediate effects of this have been pretty
    positive... more energy, not hungry, etc.... I also feel, well,
    "weird" would best describe it. Edgy. Like it's hard to move in a
    way. Thirsty. And, mostly, stuffed (which after being generally
    hungry on most eating plans, is a good thing, but it still feels odd).
    Headachy.

    All classic symptoms of early ketonuria for plenty of people. In
    about two weeks the body makes an adjustment and most of it
    goes away. Except the thirst which seems to last a lot longer
    for some folks.

    As to feeling stuffed, you're learning that fat and protein is just as
    filling as carb calorie for calorie but the hunger doesn't come back
    nearly as soon. In the long run that's probably the single biggest
    advantage that low carbing has.

    Thus far, that's the really compelling thing for me. It's sure a lot
    easier to eat appropriately when you're not hungry all the time.

  11. Ophelia said:
    Nina said:

    On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:27:21 -0500, Jackie Patti <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Hello Nina and welcome to the group.

    Nina wrote:
    > Before I wrote this, I spent a lot of time reading the FAQ and a ton
    > of low-carb sites, and I can't seem to find anything that
    > specifically addresses this.

    How refreshing!

    :-)

    Quoted message said:

    > I've been doing low-carb for a few days... not quite induction, as
    > I'm trying to sneak my husband onto this, long story, so I haven't
    > been able to eliminate a few things, but certainly in about the 30
    > carb/day range. And while the immediate effects of this have been
    > pretty positive... more energy, not hungry, etc.... I also feel,
    > well, "weird" would best describe it. Edgy. Like it's hard to
    > move in a way. Thirsty. And, mostly, stuffed (which after being
    > generally hungry on most eating plans, is a good thing, but it
    > still feels odd). Headachy.
    >
    > Most side effect lists mention things like carb cravings (of which I
    > have none) or muscle aches... nothing that seems like this to me. I
    > think I'd just kind of like someone to tell me that it's normal to
    > feel odd adjusting to a different type of food, and that I'll feel
    > more like myself soon!
    >
    > Nina

    If it's only been a few days you've been feeling funny, I'd guess
    it's just your body adjusting.

    Cause hey, it's normal to feel odd adjusting to a different type of
    food, and that you'll feel more like yourself soon! πŸ˜‰

    Thank you!

    Quoted message said:

    Seriously, it is different. Take it easy, don't do too much
    exercising until you finish adjusting a bit. See how you feel in
    another week or two before deciding if this will work well for you;
    it does take time.

    I think it's partly that I've been eating a pretty low fat diet for
    the last couple of years (with, I might add, absolutely no weight loss
    at all), and the higher fat level just makes me feel, well, fat.
    (Which I am, but I'd like to feel less fat!) It took me quite a while
    to get used to a far lower level of fat... and like it, really... but
    now this level of fat is just not what I'm used to.

    I am really hoping that this will work, though, because I am really
    tired of being hungry and tired all the time AND not losing weight.

    Welcome NinaπŸ™‚ You can't be in a better place for the help you needπŸ™‚

    best

    Ophelia

    Thanks, Ophelia! :-)

  12. On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:16:47 -0500, Jackie Patti <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Nina said:

    I think it's partly that I've been eating a pretty low fat diet for
    the last couple of years (with, I might add, absolutely no weight loss
    at all), and the higher fat level just makes me feel, well, fat.
    (Which I am, but I'd like to feel less fat!) It took me quite a while
    to get used to a far lower level of fat... and like it, really... but
    now this level of fat is just not what I'm used to.

    I am really hoping that this will work, though, because I am really
    tired of being hungry and tired all the time AND not losing weight.

    I had that experience also. I did a very strict low-fat diet for a year.

    Since I'm diabetic, this was a disaster. This was a long time ago,
    before I had a bg meter. Hate to think what my bg must've been that year.

    I was hungry all the time also. And bloated. And by the end of the
    year, I wound up so fatigued, I could barely get to work and spent all
    the rest of my time in bed. And... I gained weight!

    My body just doesn't like low-fat. I've been low-carbing for over a
    decade now and it works very well for me.

    That doesn't mean it will be best for you, but it will take a couple
    weeks before your body adjusts and then you can see how you feel.

    My husband is a diabetic, too... and has about double the weight to
    lose that I do, which is pretty considerable. He lost a fair amount
    of weight in the first year we were married... both of us eating low
    fat and high carb, pretty much right along the lines of the infamous
    food pyramid. For me, the result of this has been no weight loss at
    all, and although he initially lost considerable weight, he hasn't
    really been able to lose anything consistent since then... and with
    *any* deviation in diet he'll bloat and gain a bunch of quick
    weight... up down up down. And his blood sugar spins all over the
    place.

    Which is all pretty frustrating since we have been eating a very high
    quality diet... all whole grains and foods, mostly, little processed
    stuff of any kind, and proportions pretty much by the book. But we
    have been hungry all the time, and so on.

    It's quite obvious to me that it's just NOT working, and that's my
    primary motivation to give low carb a real shot... he's less enthused,
    but as long as he's not hungry, he's pretty much willing to eat what I
    put in front of him... so, well, as I said earlier, I'm trying to
    sneak him into this, which is easier than one might think. :-) I'm
    hoping that the results will speak for themselves and that he'll get a
    bit more convinced about this.

  13. Nina said:

    My husband is a diabetic, too... and has about double the weight to
    lose that I do, which is pretty considerable. He lost a fair amount
    of weight in the first year we were married... both of us eating low
    fat and high carb, pretty much right along the lines of the infamous
    food pyramid.

    He probably doesn't need to eat like that; diabetics need to limit carb
    to some degree to control bg.

    Bernstein says 30g carb/day. I tested and found no difference between
    30g and 50g myself (these are "net" grams of carb), but got worse
    control when I went up. Some folks eat a lot more carb than me though,
    we all vary. You might want to give him a copy of this:
    http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

    For him, it's not a matter of weight loss, but of avoiding blindness,
    impotence, heart attack, kidney disease, amputation and premature death.

    Just call me the newsgroup party-pooper. πŸ˜‰

    Quoted message said:

    For me, the result of this has been no weight loss at
    all, and although he initially lost considerable weight, he hasn't
    really been able to lose anything consistent since then... and with
    *any* deviation in diet he'll bloat and gain a bunch of quick
    weight... up down up down. And his blood sugar spins all over the
    place.

    Yeah, that is very bad for him.

    Quoted message said:

    Which is all pretty frustrating since we have been eating a very high
    quality diet... all whole grains and foods, mostly, little processed
    stuff of any kind, and proportions pretty much by the book. But we
    have been hungry all the time, and so on.

    Throw the book out. πŸ˜‰

    I find myself wishing again that I had finished my diet page so I could
    refer you to it.

    My pyramid has nonstarchy vegetables at the bottom. You will never eat
    them as a majority of calories, but they can certainly be the majority
    of food. I had a half pound of okra fried in butter with lunch today;
    that's a typical "serving" of vegetables for me. I use butter, olive
    oil, avocados, avocado oil, ranch salad dressing, oil & vinegar type
    dressings, raw cheese - whatever amount of fat I need to make the
    veggies attractive. A wide variety and lots of deeply colored items is key.

    For a meal, to a big pile of veggies, I add some protein. For me, a
    serving is 4 oz fish, meat or poultry or a cup of cottage cheese,
    ricotta or Greek yogurt. I don't do low-fat or skim stuff. I buy
    products from pasture-raised animals so I know it's *good* fats and then
    don't worry about it. For me, this is the *minimum* amount of protein I
    need.

    I'm not in induction, so one or two meals a day have low-sugar fruit
    also; usually berries, melon, a kiwi or half a pomegranate.

    If and when you add grains, buckwheat and barley are the best. They
    have gobs of phytochemicals shown to be good for both diabetes and heart
    disease. If you're gonna eat this stuff, might as well be *good* stuff
    rather than potatoes or wheat, which is almost entirely just starch.
    Kasha makes a decent replacement for rice and barley works well in soups
    and stews.

    You *need* protein and fat, there's essential amino acids and essential
    fatty acids. You don't need carbs, but vegetables, fruits and some of
    the grains have the micronutrients you need.

    You flatout *can't* eat too many non-starchy veggies and that should be
    the source of most of your carb at the beginning. As you add, don't add
    [censored], but fruit and a bit of the good grains.

    This is not Atkins; this is me. You can do Atkins, or any diet, poorly
    or well. Just as there's folks who do low-fat by eating Snackwells,
    there's people who do low-carb by mostly eating junk.

    Quoted message said:

    It's quite obvious to me that it's just NOT working, and that's my
    primary motivation to give low carb a real shot... he's less enthused,
    but as long as he's not hungry, he's pretty much willing to eat what I
    put in front of him... so, well, as I said earlier, I'm trying to
    sneak him into this, which is easier than one might think. :-) I'm
    hoping that the results will speak for themselves and that he'll get a
    bit more convinced about this.

    I do a *lot* of that sort of thing myself. Me doing the shopping and
    cooking equals my husband eating more good food. I don't argue with him
    at all, I just make it easier for him to eat stuff he should instead of
    [censored] and let his innate laziness take over. πŸ˜‰

    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  14. On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:52:42 -0500, Jackie Patti <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Nina said:

    My husband is a diabetic, too... and has about double the weight to
    lose that I do, which is pretty considerable. He lost a fair amount
    of weight in the first year we were married... both of us eating low
    fat and high carb, pretty much right along the lines of the infamous
    food pyramid.

    He probably doesn't need to eat like that; diabetics need to limit carb
    to some degree to control bg.

    Bernstein says 30g carb/day. I tested and found no difference between
    30g and 50g myself (these are "net" grams of carb), but got worse
    control when I went up. Some folks eat a lot more carb than me though,
    we all vary. You might want to give him a copy of this:
    http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

    For him, it's not a matter of weight loss, but of avoiding blindness,
    impotence, heart attack, kidney disease, amputation and premature death.

    Just call me the newsgroup party-pooper. πŸ˜‰

    Oh, but you're not telling me anything I don't know, unfortunately (or
    fortunately, I guess). The trouble is trying to get him to take these
    things seriously without making him so depressed about the whole thing
    that he thinks there's no point in doing anything. There's a very
    long story here, but five years ago (before we were married), he was
    pretty much trying to slowly kill himself by eating himself to death,
    so... well, the weight is the obvious issue, and I suspect he'd been
    diabetic for years before he was diagnosed. He still basically
    doesn't want to even THINK about it on top of everything else, and so
    it's been up to me to try to educate myself about this and work around
    his lack of desire to test, etc. I know about all the risks, way too
    well. Way way too well, sigh.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    For me, the result of this has been no weight loss at
    all, and although he initially lost considerable weight, he hasn't
    really been able to lose anything consistent since then... and with
    *any* deviation in diet he'll bloat and gain a bunch of quick
    weight... up down up down. And his blood sugar spins all over the
    place.

    Yeah, that is very bad for him.

    Quoted message said:

    Which is all pretty frustrating since we have been eating a very high
    quality diet... all whole grains and foods, mostly, little processed
    stuff of any kind, and proportions pretty much by the book. But we
    have been hungry all the time, and so on.

    Throw the book out. πŸ˜‰

    I find myself wishing again that I had finished my diet page so I could
    refer you to it.

    My pyramid has nonstarchy vegetables at the bottom. You will never eat
    them as a majority of calories, but they can certainly be the majority
    of food. I had a half pound of okra fried in butter with lunch today;
    that's a typical "serving" of vegetables for me. I use butter, olive
    oil, avocados, avocado oil, ranch salad dressing, oil & vinegar type
    dressings, raw cheese - whatever amount of fat I need to make the
    veggies attractive. A wide variety and lots of deeply colored items is key.

    For a meal, to a big pile of veggies, I add some protein. For me, a
    serving is 4 oz fish, meat or poultry or a cup of cottage cheese,
    ricotta or Greek yogurt. I don't do low-fat or skim stuff. I buy
    products from pasture-raised animals so I know it's *good* fats and then
    don't worry about it. For me, this is the *minimum* amount of protein I
    need.

    I'm not in induction, so one or two meals a day have low-sugar fruit
    also; usually berries, melon, a kiwi or half a pomegranate.

    Fruit is the real issue at the moment as far as I'm concerned... he
    likes to eat apples and grapefruit and other citrus fruits, and I
    don't want to stop him from doing that... better than ice cream, I
    think... but lots of carbs nonetheless.

    Quoted message said:

    If and when you add grains, buckwheat and barley are the best. They
    have gobs of phytochemicals shown to be good for both diabetes and heart
    disease. If you're gonna eat this stuff, might as well be *good* stuff
    rather than potatoes or wheat, which is almost entirely just starch.
    Kasha makes a decent replacement for rice and barley works well in soups
    and stews.

    You *need* protein and fat, there's essential amino acids and essential
    fatty acids. You don't need carbs, but vegetables, fruits and some of
    the grains have the micronutrients you need.

    You flatout *can't* eat too many non-starchy veggies and that should be
    the source of most of your carb at the beginning. As you add, don't add
    [censored], but fruit and a bit of the good grains.

    This is not Atkins; this is me. You can do Atkins, or any diet, poorly
    or well. Just as there's folks who do low-fat by eating Snackwells,
    there's people who do low-carb by mostly eating junk.

    Thank you! This is very useful. You really should finish that diet
    page.

    We are vegetable and whole grain fans anyway... the hard things for me
    to give up, really, are whole grain pasta and wild rice, although on
    the whole that seems possible to me. And it's not such a huge issue
    since I'm not hungry, and so I don't have that need to fill up on the
    grains. But I do wonder how much protein is reasonable... I mean, I
    love just about anything that counts as protein, but going from eating
    very little to what seems to me quite a lot is... I don't know, like
    everything else, I guess it's good but weird. Anyway, we've been
    eating vats of vegetables for some time, vegetables plus butter and
    cheese are just better!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It's quite obvious to me that it's just NOT working, and that's my
    primary motivation to give low carb a real shot... he's less enthused,
    but as long as he's not hungry, he's pretty much willing to eat what I
    put in front of him... so, well, as I said earlier, I'm trying to
    sneak him into this, which is easier than one might think. :-) I'm
    hoping that the results will speak for themselves and that he'll get a
    bit more convinced about this.

    I do a *lot* of that sort of thing myself. Me doing the shopping and
    cooking equals my husband eating more good food. I don't argue with him
    at all, I just make it easier for him to eat stuff he should instead of
    [censored] and let his innate laziness take over. πŸ˜‰

    Yes, exactly. :-)

  15. Nina said:

    Oh, but you're not telling me anything I don't know, unfortunately (or
    fortunately, I guess). The trouble is trying to get him to take these
    things seriously without making him so depressed about the whole thing
    that he thinks there's no point in doing anything. There's a very
    long story here, but five years ago (before we were married), he was
    pretty much trying to slowly kill himself by eating himself to death,
    so... well, the weight is the obvious issue, and I suspect he'd been
    diabetic for years before he was diagnosed. He still basically
    doesn't want to even THINK about it on top of everything else, and so
    it's been up to me to try to educate myself about this and work around
    his lack of desire to test, etc. I know about all the risks, way too
    well. Way way too well, sigh.

    That's a very tough situation.

    For me, it takes a lot of work and knowledge to manage my diabetes well;
    if my husband had diabetes or heart disease, he'd not take
    responsibility like I do.

    Quoted message said:

    Fruit is the real issue at the moment as far as I'm concerned... he
    likes to eat apples and grapefruit and other citrus fruits, and I
    don't want to stop him from doing that... better than ice cream, I
    think... but lots of carbs nonetheless.

    Small apples aren't too bad. It depends how he reacts, maybe a half
    would be better, some folks do that. Dip it in some almond butter to
    make it go further.

    Berries are very good, though we're just passing the time of year for
    them and the frozen ones just aren't the same. I find I can do a cup of
    most berries. Blueberries pack a bit tighter, so a half cup. I like
    berries with yogurt myself.

    A cup of cubed melon works too - any sort. Not a whole lot of carbs in
    that.

    In summer, I eat peaches once or twice too just cause I can't live
    without peaches forever. But I buy ones on the smaller side and eat
    with a pretty low-carb meal.

    I've never looked up grapefruit, but I know a tangerine or an orange
    isn't too bad carb-wise, I can do one of those if a meal is otherwise
    low-carb.

    It's a matter of choosing lower-sugar fruits and limiting portions as
    needed based on bg.

    Quoted message said:

    Thank you! This is very useful. You really should finish that diet
    page.

    It's half done. As is my diabetes page. Unfortunately, I find it
    easier to write to people who respond than just to sit down and write. πŸ˜‰

    Quoted message said:

    We are vegetable and whole grain fans anyway... the hard things for me
    to give up, really, are whole grain pasta and wild rice, although on
    the whole that seems possible to me. And it's not such a huge issue
    since I'm not hungry, and so I don't have that need to fill up on the
    grains.

    Wild rice isn't nearly as bad as real rice, but I think kasha is
    probably better.

    For pasta, I use fried shredded cabbage if the sauce is cream-like (such
    as a stroganoff) or fried shredded zucchini under tomato-type sauces.
    Most of the flavor is in the sauce and toppings, so anything bland
    underneath works.

    You might want to check out Dreamfields pasta, some diabetics find it
    doesn't spike them; but others find the spike is just delayed and their
    bg goes up at 3 or 4 hours. You'd have to test.

    You also might want to google either alt.food.diabetic or
    alt.support.diabetes; people often post about various low-carb pasta
    products and which ones do and don't spike their bg and still taste
    decent. I seem to recall reading that someone found an *edible* soy
    pasta recently.

    Quoted message said:

    But I do wonder how much protein is reasonable... I mean, I
    love just about anything that counts as protein, but going from eating
    very little to what seems to me quite a lot is... I don't know, like
    everything else, I guess it's good but weird. Anyway, we've been
    eating vats of vegetables for some time, vegetables plus butter and
    cheese are just better!

    Protein can be overdone, but not easily. It's a pretty satiating food,
    especially with fat.

    During induction, I don't even *try* to limit it. I often roast a
    turkey if I need to re-do induction. I have eaten *huge* piles of
    pepperoni or hard-boiled eggs or whatever. I have *very* bad cravings
    if I let the carbs creep up, so figure whatever gets me through
    induction to get me back on track is fine. Appetite returns to more
    normal levels afterwards anyways so it doesn't become a problem.

    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  16. On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:27:32 -0500, Jackie Patti <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Nina said:

    Oh, but you're not telling me anything I don't know, unfortunately (or
    fortunately, I guess). The trouble is trying to get him to take these
    things seriously without making him so depressed about the whole thing
    that he thinks there's no point in doing anything. There's a very
    long story here, but five years ago (before we were married), he was
    pretty much trying to slowly kill himself by eating himself to death,
    so... well, the weight is the obvious issue, and I suspect he'd been
    diabetic for years before he was diagnosed. He still basically
    doesn't want to even THINK about it on top of everything else, and so
    it's been up to me to try to educate myself about this and work around
    his lack of desire to test, etc. I know about all the risks, way too
    well. Way way too well, sigh.

    That's a very tough situation.

    For me, it takes a lot of work and knowledge to manage my diabetes well;
    if my husband had diabetes or heart disease, he'd not take
    responsibility like I do.

    Yeah. And it's *hard* to take care of someone who isn't wholly
    committed to taking care of himself. I think that if he could just
    lose enough weight to have less pain and more mobility, he'd be more
    able to cope with the psychological demands of dealing with diabetes
    and everything else. As it is, it's just kind of one more thing that
    he can't quite deal with... so for the moment, I'm dealing with it,
    basically. Which is ok.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Fruit is the real issue at the moment as far as I'm concerned... he
    likes to eat apples and grapefruit and other citrus fruits, and I
    don't want to stop him from doing that... better than ice cream, I
    think... but lots of carbs nonetheless.

    Small apples aren't too bad. It depends how he reacts, maybe a half
    would be better, some folks do that. Dip it in some almond butter to
    make it go further.

    Berries are very good, though we're just passing the time of year for
    them and the frozen ones just aren't the same. I find I can do a cup of
    most berries. Blueberries pack a bit tighter, so a half cup. I like
    berries with yogurt myself.

    A cup of cubed melon works too - any sort. Not a whole lot of carbs in
    that.

    I just got back from the store and remembered.. .that's what I meant
    to get! Melon... Damn.

    Quoted message said:

    In summer, I eat peaches once or twice too just cause I can't live
    without peaches forever. But I buy ones on the smaller side and eat
    with a pretty low-carb meal.

    I've never looked up grapefruit, but I know a tangerine or an orange
    isn't too bad carb-wise, I can do one of those if a meal is otherwise
    low-carb.

    It's a matter of choosing lower-sugar fruits and limiting portions as
    needed based on bg.

    The good thing is that,as far as I can tell (since I'm basing this far
    more on observation than on testing, and, yes, I know that's a
    terrible idea, but I'm working at it...), his blood sugar really is
    not that sensitive to what I'd call high-fiber, whole food carbs,
    unless he eats a LOT of them. It's things like white rice and regular
    pasta (or whole wheat pasta in much quantity). Apples and (weirdly)
    potatoes and anything that's pretty whole grain is at least reasonably
    ok... but then, I think the issue is largely that he more carbs he
    eats, the hungrier he is, on the whole (although I've just started
    really paying attention to this pattern. It's certainly true for
    me.).

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Thank you! This is very useful. You really should finish that diet
    page.

    It's half done. As is my diabetes page. Unfortunately, I find it
    easier to write to people who respond than just to sit down and write. πŸ˜‰

    Yes, I understand perfectly! :-)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    We are vegetable and whole grain fans anyway... the hard things for me
    to give up, really, are whole grain pasta and wild rice, although on
    the whole that seems possible to me. And it's not such a huge issue
    since I'm not hungry, and so I don't have that need to fill up on the
    grains.

    Wild rice isn't nearly as bad as real rice, but I think kasha is
    probably better.

    For pasta, I use fried shredded cabbage if the sauce is cream-like (such
    as a stroganoff) or fried shredded zucchini under tomato-type sauces.
    Most of the flavor is in the sauce and toppings, so anything bland
    underneath works.

    Shredded cabbage is a great idea; I hadn't thought of that.

    Quoted message said:

    You might want to check out Dreamfields pasta, some diabetics find it
    doesn't spike them; but others find the spike is just delayed and their
    bg goes up at 3 or 4 hours. You'd have to test.

    You also might want to google either alt.food.diabetic or
    alt.support.diabetes; people often post about various low-carb pasta
    products and which ones do and don't spike their bg and still taste
    decent. I seem to recall reading that someone found an *edible* soy
    pasta recently.

    I bought a box of Dreamfields, so we'll see... I suspect that, like a
    lot of things, it's probably better to try to pretty much avoid the
    pasta than to find a great substitute.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But I do wonder how much protein is reasonable... I mean, I
    love just about anything that counts as protein, but going from eating
    very little to what seems to me quite a lot is... I don't know, like
    everything else, I guess it's good but weird. Anyway, we've been
    eating vats of vegetables for some time, vegetables plus butter and
    cheese are just better!

    Protein can be overdone, but not easily. It's a pretty satiating food,
    especially with fat.

    During induction, I don't even *try* to limit it. I often roast a
    turkey if I need to re-do induction. I have eaten *huge* piles of
    pepperoni or hard-boiled eggs or whatever. I have *very* bad cravings
    if I let the carbs creep up, so figure whatever gets me through
    induction to get me back on track is fine. Appetite returns to more
    normal levels afterwards anyways so it doesn't become a problem.

    I have to say that I find this absence of carb cravings absolutely
    bizarre. I'm quite sure that this is the only time in my life that I
    haven't had them. That's got to be a good thing.

  17. Nina said:

    Apples and (weirdly)
    potatoes and anything that's pretty whole grain is at least reasonably
    ok... but then, I think the issue is largely that he more carbs he
    eats, the hungrier he is, on the whole (although I've just started
    really paying attention to this pattern. It's certainly true for
    me.).

    For me, when my bg is uncontrolled, the hunger is actually *painful*,
    enough to even wake me from a dead sleep.

    Whereas when my bg is controlled, hunger is just a minor feeling that it
    is easy to ignore if I'm distracted.

    Quoted message said:

    I have to say that I find this absence of carb cravings absolutely
    bizarre. I'm quite sure that this is the only time in my life that I
    haven't had them. That's got to be a good thing.

    Yeah, you are lucky! The cravings are really intense for me if I screw
    up and need to re-induct..

    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  18. Nina said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Oh, but you're not telling me anything I don't know, unfortunately
    (or fortunately, I guess). The trouble is trying to get him to take
    these things seriously without making him so depressed about the
    whole thing that he thinks there's no point in doing anything.

    I'm convinced there's often a vicious cycle between carb consumption and
    depression. High blood sugar increases the production of "contentment"
    brain chemicals--there's a reason a person who just got dumped eats a
    box of chocolates, and not a pile of pork chops. So, a person hits a
    tough patch in life, seeks refuge in comfort foods, gains weight, gets
    more depressed about that, needs more comfort foods to offset that, etc,
    etc. I think that's one reason low-carb diets work so much better than
    high-carb diets (and also the reason you can't do it halfway and get
    half the benefits): cutting out the carbs breaks that cycle. It's not
    easy, especially in the first few days when your body is going through
    withdrawals, it gets so much easier.

    Quoted message said:

    Yeah. And it's *hard* to take care of someone who isn't wholly
    committed to taking care of himself. I think that if he could just
    lose enough weight to have less pain and more mobility, he'd be more
    able to cope with the psychological demands of dealing with diabetes
    and everything else. As it is, it's just kind of one more thing that
    he can't quite deal with... so for the moment, I'm dealing with it,
    basically. Which is ok.

    It's definitely easier to do it with someone who's on the same page.
    Hopefully, if you can deal with the details long enough for him to see
    improvements, he'll get excited about it and get on board more actively.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Fruit is the real issue at the moment as far as I'm concerned... he
    likes to eat apples and grapefruit and other citrus fruits, and I
    don't want to stop him from doing that... better than ice cream, I
    think... but lots of carbs nonetheless.

    Yeah, that could be better. Like Jackie said, if he likes berries or
    melon, maybe you can wean him over to them at least part of the time.
    Personally, I think the low-carb fruits are a lot tastier than the
    high-carb ones, but tastes vary.

    Has he ever tested his blood sugar? When you eat something and see your
    BG shoot up an hour or two later, or still be high a few hours later,
    that can be an eye-opener that's hard to avoid.

    Quoted message said:

    I bought a box of Dreamfields, so we'll see... I suspect that, like a
    lot of things, it's probably better to try to pretty much avoid the
    pasta than to find a great substitute.

    There are also tofu shirataki noodles, available in some stores'
    specialty or ethnic sections. They come packed in a bag of liquid, and
    are extremely low-carb, but they're also kinda rubbery. I like them
    okay, but the texture is a little different. Spaghetti squash is the
    same way: low in carbs and tastes good, but you'll never mistake it for
    a starch pasta.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But I do wonder how much protein is reasonable... I mean, I love
    just about anything that counts as protein, but going from eating
    very little to what seems to me quite a lot is... I don't know, like
    everything else, I guess it's good but weird. Anyway, we've been
    eating vats of vegetables for some time, vegetables plus butter and
    cheese are just better!

    You might want to grab a copy of "Protein Power Life Plan," or the
    earlier "Protein Power." They'll show you how much protein you need,
    and what serving sizes of protein-rich foods like meat and eggs will
    give you that. Extra protein isn't a problem, unless you drastically
    overdo it, enough that the excess protein being converted to glucose
    drives your blood sugar up. You'll probably know if you're eating that
    much.

    Quoted message said:

    I have to say that I find this absence of carb cravings absolutely
    bizarre. I'm quite sure that this is the only time in my life that I
    haven't had them. That's got to be a good thing.

    Nice, huh?

    --
    Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

  19. Jackie Patti said:

    It's half done. As is my diabetes page. Unfortunately, I find it
    easier to write to people who respond than just to sit down and write.
    πŸ˜‰

    Funny how that works, isn't it? I hate to think how many words I've
    written here and other places as responses, but when I sit in front of a
    blank page or web site, my mind just locks up. Writing an actual book
    seems like an impossible task. Just a lack of discipline on my part, I
    suppose.

    Quoted message said:

    You also might want to google either alt.food.diabetic or
    alt.support.diabetes; people often post about various low-carb pasta
    products and which ones do and don't spike their bg and still taste
    decent. I seem to recall reading that someone found an *edible* soy
    pasta recently.

    We got some from Netrition, but I don't know the brand offhand. It
    tasted fine, but then we noticed it came from China. Good grief,
    millions of bushels of soybeans are grown and processed right here in my
    neighborhood. Some of them probably got shipped to China, pressed into
    pasta and packaged, and shipped back. Apparently fuel prices still
    aren't high enough.

    --
    Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

  20. Aaron Baugher said:
    Nina said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Oh, but you're not telling me anything I don't know, unfortunately
    > (or fortunately, I guess). The trouble is trying to get him to take
    > these things seriously without making him so depressed about the
    > whole thing that he thinks there's no point in doing anything.

    I'm convinced there's often a vicious cycle between carb consumption and
    depression. High blood sugar increases the production of "contentment"
    brain chemicals--there's a reason a person who just got dumped eats a
    box of chocolates, and not a pile of pork chops. So, a person hits a
    tough patch in life, seeks refuge in comfort foods, gains weight, gets
    more depressed about that, needs more comfort foods to offset that, etc,
    etc. I think that's one reason low-carb diets work so much better than
    high-carb diets (and also the reason you can't do it halfway and get
    half the benefits): cutting out the carbs breaks that cycle. It's not
    easy, especially in the first few days when your body is going through
    withdrawals, it gets so much easier.

    I completely agree about all of this. And I'm pretty convinced that
    the blood sugar spikes from carbs are a whole huge part of both his
    and my mood swings.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Yeah. And it's *hard* to take care of someone who isn't wholly
    committed to taking care of himself. I think that if he could just
    lose enough weight to have less pain and more mobility, he'd be more
    able to cope with the psychological demands of dealing with diabetes
    and everything else. As it is, it's just kind of one more thing that
    he can't quite deal with... so for the moment, I'm dealing with it,
    basically. Which is ok.

    It's definitely easier to do it with someone who's on the same page.
    Hopefully, if you can deal with the details long enough for him to see
    improvements, he'll get excited about it and get on board more actively.

    I hope so. I think that at the moment, he's just kind of [censored]
    about the whole thing.... despite the fact that he is both not hungry
    and losing weight, and I'm not exactly taking every carb out of his
    hands, either. I am hoping that once the benefits seem more clear...
    and when/if he starts to understand that this is not an unhealthy
    choice, he'll be a lot more into it. But I see why this is hard for
    him... I mean, you spend your entire life being told that butter is
    bad, meat is bad, fats are bad, etc., and then the next day, someone's
    feeding you these things. It takes a little adjustment.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Fruit is the real issue at the moment as far as I'm concerned... he
    > likes to eat apples and grapefruit and other citrus fruits, and I
    > don't want to stop him from doing that... better than ice cream, I
    > think... but lots of carbs nonetheless.

    Yeah, that could be better. Like Jackie said, if he likes berries or
    melon, maybe you can wean him over to them at least part of the time.
    Personally, I think the low-carb fruits are a lot tastier than the
    high-carb ones, but tastes vary.

    Me too... but the thing about apples, etc., is that they're what I'd
    call "grab fruits"... there they are in a bowl, you just have one.
    You don't have to take out the seeds, cube the melon, whatever. So
    it's just easier. But, on the other hand, if he's less hungry he eats
    less of all of these sorts of things.

    Quoted message said:

    Has he ever tested his blood sugar? When you eat something and see your
    BG shoot up an hour or two later, or still be high a few hours later,
    that can be an eye-opener that's hard to avoid.

    He's had his blood sugar tested, of course, and we have a monitor, but
    I haven't been able to get him to use it really.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I bought a box of Dreamfields, so we'll see... I suspect that, like a
    lot of things, it's probably better to try to pretty much avoid the
    pasta than to find a great substitute.

    There are also tofu shirataki noodles, available in some stores'
    specialty or ethnic sections. They come packed in a bag of liquid, and
    are extremely low-carb, but they're also kinda rubbery. I like them
    okay, but the texture is a little different. Spaghetti squash is the
    same way: low in carbs and tastes good, but you'll never mistake it for
    a starch pasta.

    I love spaghetti squash... I'd forgotten all about that!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > But I do wonder how much protein is reasonable... I mean, I love
    > just about anything that counts as protein, but going from eating
    > very little to what seems to me quite a lot is... I don't know, like
    > everything else, I guess it's good but weird. Anyway, we've been
    > eating vats of vegetables for some time, vegetables plus butter and
    > cheese are just better!

    You might want to grab a copy of "Protein Power Life Plan," or the
    earlier "Protein Power." They'll show you how much protein you need,
    and what serving sizes of protein-rich foods like meat and eggs will
    give you that. Extra protein isn't a problem, unless you drastically
    overdo it, enough that the excess protein being converted to glucose
    drives your blood sugar up. You'll probably know if you're eating that
    much.

    Quoted message said:

    I have to say that I find this absence of carb cravings absolutely
    bizarre. I'm quite sure that this is the only time in my life that I
    haven't had them. That's got to be a good thing.

    Nice, huh?

    VERY. I have to say that this is ridiculously easy for me at the
    moment. It's sort of like all of a lifetime of food issues have
    vanished in 6 days. A little unreal, actually.

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