Monthly running data

In article BCqyb.45920$yJ.32203@okepread02 said:

Can one of you guys who knows what you are doing comment on my November running log? First off...
my pace is slow, I know...

Running at a slow pace isn't a problem. Unless you're a very fast 200lb runner, going at 10min/mile
or slower is fine.

Quoted message said:

I don't feel that I am losing enough weight for the distance that I am doing... granted, it's not
a lot of distance...

You should be able to lose close to 1lb/week on 20mpw at your weight. If you aren't losing that
much, you need to adjust your diet.

Quoted message said:

This is our first month of training for LA in March. I am training with my sister who is quite a
bit slower then I am. I would like to speed up, but don't want to discourage her.

(1) Most beginners train at too high a speed anyway. Going slower won't hurt.
(2) When two people train together, the slower person needs to set the pace. You can't have a
give-and-take compromise -- the faster of the two runners needs to come down to the slower
runners pace.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

"cox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BCqyb.45920$yJ.32203@okepread02...

Quoted message said:

Can one of you guys who knows what you are doing comment on my November running log? First
off... my pace is slow, I know... I don't feel that I am losing enough weight for the distance
that I am doing... granted, it's not a lot of distance... but there should be more weight loss,
shouldn't there??

Well, I've ran for over 6 years now, and didn't see any weight loss until this last year. I peaked
at close to 220 lbs. about a year ago, and I'm just under 200 lbs. now. There was no change in
diet... Hey I like to eat, that's why I was 220 lbs. I doubled my running mileage from 25 miles
per month to 50, and my training runs are usually 10-12 minute miles, as well as doubling my
cycling mileage.

Quoted message said:

Nov 03 Week Starting Monday27 Oct 03 miles time pace Date Dist Time Pace Type Weight Mth Sum
96m 16h49m 10m31s 209.88p

I would think that if I'm seeing weight loss at 50 miles per month, at 96 miles, you should be
seeing something? As Donovan suggested, I think your diet must be looked into? Are you eating more
to compensate for your running?

Lastly, recording your weight on a daily basis seems a little obsessive? From day to day, I likely
gain as much as you after eating a meal or loose as much after a visit to the crapper? Make some
positive changes (diet, etc.), quit worrying about the scale, and the weight will fall away. Heck, I
hadn't weighed myself since last winter, and it wasn't until I started putting my (now loose) fall
clothes back on, that I jumped on the scale again to see what was up.

Perdy.

Quoted message said:

Can one of you guys who knows what you are doing comment on my November running log? First
off... my pace is slow, I know... I don't feel that I am losing enough weight for the distance
that I am doing... granted, it's not a lot of distance... but there should be more weight loss,
shouldn't there??

This is our first month of training for LA in March. I am training with my sister who is quite a
bit slower then I am. I would like to speed up, but don't want to discourage her.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Dropping weight on limited mileage is actually not that simple. 20-25 miles/wk is what the average
running club member is running, and many have some trouble dropping much weight.

One mile of running (or walking) burns about 100 calories, so 24 miles/wk burns 2400 calories. 3500
calories roughly equals 1 pound. So your running is worth
2/3 pound per week. So far, so good.

The catch is you have to keep your eating in check. The energy expenditure from running is worth 350
calories per day, and it is quite possible to increase consumption by more than this, in which case
you end up gaining weight. I've noticed a fair number of slow marathoners (meaning here 4-6 hour
marathons) who actually gain weight during training. People running 70 miles/wk and more have to
worry about just getting in enough food to avoid losing weight, but people running relatively light
mileages really do have to worry about gaining.

Running at faster paces will not increase energy expenditure if you cover the same distance, but it
seems to reduce appetite later. I know I don't feel as much like eating after 6 X 400 than after a 5
mile easy run (recovery). If you gradually increase your mileage from 24 to 40+, your problem will
likely be self correcting.

Lyndon

"Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

cox said:

Can one of you guys who knows what you are doing comment on my November running log?

It's an average loss of .07 lbs/day (10% fit with linear regression), or .13 lbs/day (38% fit), not
counting Thanksgiving, which is 1 lb/week.

More jogging, less posting.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Running at a slow pace isn't a problem. Unless you're a very fast 200lb runner, going at 10min/mile
or slower is fine.

Or if you are a lil treadmill jogger.

Quoted message said:

You should be able to lose close to 1lb/week on 20mpw at your weight. If you aren't losing that
much, you need to adjust your diet.

Yeah, here's a guy to take advice on weight loss from. He weighs 150lbs wet, and thinks he was
"fat". Yet he will tell you how to lose weight, even though he's never had a weight problem.

Thanks Donovan! I appreciate your advice.

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article BCqyb.45920$yJ.32203@okepread02 said:

Can one of you guys who knows what you are doing comment on my November running log? First
off... my pace is slow, I know...

Running at a slow pace isn't a problem. Unless you're a very fast 200lb

runner,

Quoted message said:

going at 10min/mile or slower is fine.

Quoted message said:

I don't feel that I am losing enough weight for the distance that I am doing... granted, it's
not a lot of distance...

You should be able to lose close to 1lb/week on 20mpw at your weight. If

you

Quoted message said:

aren't losing that much, you need to adjust your diet.

Quoted message said:

This is our first month of training for LA in March. I am training with my sister who is quite a
bit slower then I am. I would like to speed up, but don't want to discourage her.

(1) Most beginners train at too high a speed anyway. Going slower won't

hurt.

Quoted message said:

(2) When two people train together, the slower person needs to set the

pace.

Quoted message said:

You can't have a give-and-take compromise -- the faster of the two runners needs to come down to
the slower runners pace.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

In article said:

One mile of running (or walking) burns about 100 calories, so 24 miles/wk burns 2400 calories.

That figure is based on a body weight of about 140lb. Most people who are trying to lost weight,
including the poster, are quite a bit heavier than that. He would drop about 1lb/week if he ate
maintenance for an inactive lifestyle.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Lastly, recording your weight on a daily basis seems a little obsessive?

Actually, there is a book out about 7 lifestyle habits of people who have successively kept off 30+
lbs. for 5+ years.

It turns out one of their habits is to weigh themselves fairly frequently (more than 3 times a week
for about 1/2 the group).

But their first habitat is that they expect to fail (i.e. gain back small amounts of weight) but
resolve to just keep working at it.

So as long as you know that those small day to day increases are normal, the small losses can
motivate you to keep going.

And if you weigh yourself consistently (not constantly), you will know when you have plataued and
can adjust diet/weight accordingly.

Clothing works for some folks. For me, I found that even though my activity has increased certain
clothing fit tighter (developing runner's thighs after years of scrawny swimmer legs).

Just remember that in the end, you are more than a number...whether your weight or your PR.

~b

Quoted message said:

From day to day, I likely gain as much as you after eating a meal or

loose

Quoted message said:

as much after a visit to the crapper? Make some positive changes (diet, etc.), quit worrying about
the scale, and the weight will fall away. Heck, I hadn't weighed myself since last winter, and it
wasn't until I started putting my (now loose) fall clothes back on, that I jumped on the scale
again to see what was up.

Perdy.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

You should be able to lose close to 1lb/week on 20mpw at your weight. If you aren't losing that
much, you need to adjust your diet.

The weight down .07 lbs/day (12% fit, linear regression), or .13 lbs/day (39% fit), not counting
Thanksgiving, which is 1lb/week.

cox said:

Thanks Donovan! I appreciate your advice.

Suuuuuuuucker!

In article said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Running at a slow pace isn't a problem. Unless you're a very fast 200lb runner, going at
10min/mile or slower is fine.

Or if you are a lil treadmill jogger.

Quoted message said:

You should be able to lose close to 1lb/week on 20mpw at your weight. If you aren't losing that
much, you need to adjust your diet.

Yeah, here's a guy to take advice on weight loss from. He weighs 150lbs wet, and

157 excluding clothing on an empty bladder.

Quoted message said:

thinks he was "fat". Yet he will tell you how to lose weight, even though he's never had a weight
problem.

Maybe we have differing standards, but I call this a weight problem:

pegasus.rutgers.edulittlefatty1.jpgOpen ↗
pegasus.rutgers.edulittlefatty2.jpgOpen ↗

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Donovan Rebbechi said:

157 excluding clothing on an empty bladder.

Quoted message said:

thinks he was "fat". Yet he will tell you how to lose weight, even though he's never had a weight
problem.

Maybe we have differing standards, but I call this a weight problem:

pegasus.rutgers.edulittlefatty1.jpgOpen ↗
pegasus.rutgers.edulittlefatty2.jpgOpen ↗

You don't have a weight problem, you have a mental problem.

In article said:

One mile of running (or walking) burns about 100 calories, so 24 miles/wk burns 2400 calories.

That figure is based on a body weight of about 140lb. Most people who are trying to lost weight,
including the poster, are quite a bit heavier than that. He would drop about 1lb/week if he ate
maintenance for an inactive lifestyle.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Lastly, recording your weight on a daily basis seems a little obsessive?

Actually, there is a book out about 7 lifestyle habits of people who have successively kept off 30+
lbs. for 5+ years.

It turns out one of their habits is to weigh themselves fairly frequently (more than 3 times a week
for about 1/2 the group).

But their first habitat is that they expect to fail (i.e. gain back small amounts of weight) but
resolve to just keep working at it.

So as long as you know that those small day to day increases are normal, the small losses can
motivate you to keep going.

And if you weigh yourself consistently (not constantly), you will know when you have plataued and
can adjust diet/weight accordingly.

Clothing works for some folks. For me, I found that even though my activity has increased certain
clothing fit tighter (developing runner's thighs after years of scrawny swimmer legs).

Just remember that in the end, you are more than a number...whether your weight or your PR.

~b

Quoted message said:

From day to day, I likely gain as much as you after eating a meal or

loose

Quoted message said:

as much after a visit to the crapper? Make some positive changes (diet, etc.), quit worrying about
the scale, and the weight will fall away. Heck, I hadn't weighed myself since last winter, and it
wasn't until I started putting my (now loose) fall clothes back on, that I jumped on the scale
again to see what was up.

Perdy.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

You should be able to lose close to 1lb/week on 20mpw at your weight. If you aren't losing that
much, you need to adjust your diet.

The weight down .07 lbs/day (12% fit, linear regression), or .13 lbs/day (39% fit), not counting
Thanksgiving, which is 1lb/week.

In article said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

In article said:

One mile of running (or walking) burns about 100 calories, so 24 miles/wk

burns

Quoted message said:

2400 calories.

That figure is based on a body weight of about 140lb. Most people who are trying to lost weight,
including the poster, are quite a bit heavier than that. He would drop about 1lb/week if he ate
maintenance for an inactive lifestyle.

Whether it's 0.7 lb/wk or 1 lb/wk isn't the issue.

The issue is that runners doing limited mileage at slow paces burn relatively small amounts of
energy--less so than many people realize.

I don't think this is correct. In fact I'd argue the opposite -- that people often underestimate
the calories used during exercise. For example, you underestimated it substantially in the
previous post.

However, to an even greater extent, people also underestimate the calories they consume. This is why
300lb people "can't lose weight" despite the fact that they "eat right". For example, the other
poster claimed not to have changed his diet, a claim that almost certainly wouldn't stand up to more
rigorous scrutiny.

Quoted message said:

There seems to be a natural tendency to increase the intake when running in this manner, so if you
go to running clubs and look at people, you can see slow marathoners who are heavy, even while
training for a marathon. Some of them actually GAIN weight while training for a marathon.

YMMV, I've found that I have an extremely hard time holding onto body weight when I run high milage,
whether it's slow or fast.

I suspect that in the case of these marathon runners, it could well have a lot to do with conscious
decisions to increase carb consumption, or at least get "adequate" amounts of carbs, which amounts
to the same thing.

Performance nutrition and nutrition for weight loss are conflicting demands, and a high milage
marathon runner is almost certainly more interested in eating for performance than they are in
eating for weight loss, which means they'll almost certainly eat more high glycemic index carbs than
someone whose primary objective was to lose weight.

Quoted message said:

The solution is to:

(a) restrict intake (which can be simply running fast enough to reduce the desire to eat after
the run); or

Is there any evidence that running faster suppresses appetite ? Never heard of this, I wouldn't
recommend beginners run faster in any case -- my impression is that most beginners are already
training at around threshold pace as it is.

Some dietary changes that would make sense IMO are simply a more close monitoring of diet, in
particular paying careful attention to protein consumption and taking care to avoid overeating high
glycemic index carbs.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Donovan Rebbechi said:

I don't think this is correct. In fact I'd argue the opposite -

Of course, he's an idiot, and a treadmill jogger.

cox said:

Thanks Donovan! I appreciate your advice.

Suuuuuuuucker!