Re: OT: WAAAAHHHH!

Ron Ruff said:

Michael Press said:

Big problem is that torture is a totally ineffective
interview technique.

No... the real problem is that coercing captured "suspects" or anyone
else who might be rounded up, into giving information is barbaric/
medieval/stupid. I don't care if it is water boarding, subjecting them
to cold temperatures, or even withholding social contact. It's all
torture... which is why it is done. The point is to subject them to
physical and mental stress in the hopes that they will "talk". Why do
we *need* to get information from these people so badly... who may or
may not be guilty of anything, and may or may not know anything? If we
allow this sort of thing to continue then turn about is fair play.
Imagine you and your loved ones being rounded up and tortured because
someone thinks you might know something that the "authorities" would
like to find out... and get back to me.

Yeah, try to convince the majority of USians that their government could
be capable of evil. We will have JB and jb in full agreement about
bicycle wheels before that happens.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:06:21 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

If there was a nuclear bomb hidden in NYC or LA or Chicago, and you had the
mastermind in custody, what would you do? Ask Chuck Schumer? Save millions
of innocent people or rough up a terrorist? Real tough call.

Watching 24 a lot, huh?

How is it possible that we know for certain that this guy knows this,
and we don't have any other info. This ticking time bomb situation is
baloney. Reality doesn't happen like that.

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:06:21 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

If there was a nuclear bomb hidden in NYC or LA or Chicago, and you had the
mastermind in custody, what would you do? Ask Chuck Schumer? Save millions
of innocent people or rough up a terrorist? Real tough call.

Watching 24 a lot, huh?

How is it possible that we know for certain that this guy knows this,
and we don't have any other info. This ticking time bomb situation is
baloney. Reality doesn't happen like that.

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:06:21 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

If there was a nuclear bomb hidden in NYC or LA or Chicago, and you had the
mastermind in custody, what would you do? Ask Chuck Schumer? Save millions
of innocent people or rough up a terrorist? Real tough call.

Watching 24 a lot, huh?

How is it possible that we know for certain that this guy knows this,
and we don't have any other info. This ticking time bomb situation is
baloney. Reality doesn't happen like that.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:06:21 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

If there was a nuclear bomb hidden in NYC or LA or Chicago, and you had the
mastermind in custody, what would you do? Ask Chuck Schumer? Save millions
of innocent people or rough up a terrorist? Real tough call.

Watching 24 a lot, huh?

How is it possible that we know for certain that this guy knows this,
and we don't have any other info. This ticking time bomb situation is
baloney. Reality doesn't happen like that.

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part of
the reality based community.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:06:21 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

If there was a nuclear bomb hidden in NYC or LA or Chicago, and you had the
mastermind in custody, what would you do? Ask Chuck Schumer? Save millions
of innocent people or rough up a terrorist? Real tough call.

Watching 24 a lot, huh?

How is it possible that we know for certain that this guy knows this,
and we don't have any other info. This ticking time bomb situation is
baloney. Reality doesn't happen like that.

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part of
the reality based community.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

Tom Sherman said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:06:21 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

If there was a nuclear bomb hidden in NYC or LA or Chicago, and you
had the mastermind in custody, what would you do? Ask Chuck
Schumer? Save millions of innocent people or rough up a terrorist?
Real tough call.

Watching 24 a lot, huh?

How is it possible that we know for certain that this guy knows this,
and we don't have any other info. This ticking time bomb situation
is baloney. Reality doesn't happen like that.

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part of
the reality based community.

Again, quoting CHARLES "SCMUCKY" SCHUMER, D NY (one of the most liberal --
and crooked {just ask Micheal Steele} -- US Senators):

"And I'd like to interject a note of balance here. There are times
when we all get in high dudgeon. We ought to be reasonable about this. I
think there are probably very few people in this room or in America who
would say that torture should never, ever be used, particularly if thousands
of lives are at stake.

Take the hypothetical: If we knew that there was a nuclear bomb hidden in an
American city and we believed that some kind of torture, fairly severe
maybe, would give us a chance of finding that bomb before it went off, my
guess is most Americans and most senators, maybe all, would say, "Do what
you have to do."

So it's easy to sit back in the armchair and say that torture can never be
used. But when you're in the foxhole, it's a very different deal.

And I respect -- I think we all respect the fact that the president's in the
foxhole every day. So he can hardly be blamed for asking you or his White
House counsel or the Department of Defense to figure out when it comes to
torture, what the law allows and when the law allows it and what there is
permission to do."

Want to REALLY torture a terrorist? Put him inbetween Schumer and a TV
camera! Oh, the inhumanity...

Tom Sherman said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:06:21 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

If there was a nuclear bomb hidden in NYC or LA or Chicago, and you
had the mastermind in custody, what would you do? Ask Chuck
Schumer? Save millions of innocent people or rough up a terrorist?
Real tough call.

Watching 24 a lot, huh?

How is it possible that we know for certain that this guy knows this,
and we don't have any other info. This ticking time bomb situation
is baloney. Reality doesn't happen like that.

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part of
the reality based community.

Again, quoting CHARLES "SCMUCKY" SCHUMER, D NY (one of the most liberal --
and crooked {just ask Micheal Steele} -- US Senators):

"And I'd like to interject a note of balance here. There are times
when we all get in high dudgeon. We ought to be reasonable about this. I
think there are probably very few people in this room or in America who
would say that torture should never, ever be used, particularly if thousands
of lives are at stake.

Take the hypothetical: If we knew that there was a nuclear bomb hidden in an
American city and we believed that some kind of torture, fairly severe
maybe, would give us a chance of finding that bomb before it went off, my
guess is most Americans and most senators, maybe all, would say, "Do what
you have to do."

So it's easy to sit back in the armchair and say that torture can never be
used. But when you're in the foxhole, it's a very different deal.

And I respect -- I think we all respect the fact that the president's in the
foxhole every day. So he can hardly be blamed for asking you or his White
House counsel or the Department of Defense to figure out when it comes to
torture, what the law allows and when the law allows it and what there is
permission to do."

Want to REALLY torture a terrorist? Put him inbetween Schumer and a TV
camera! Oh, the inhumanity...

Bill Sornson said:

Tom Sherman said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:06:21 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

> If there was a nuclear bomb hidden in NYC or LA or Chicago, and you
> had the mastermind in custody, what would you do? Ask Chuck
> Schumer? Save millions of innocent people or rough up a terrorist?
> Real tough call.
Watching 24 a lot, huh?

How is it possible that we know for certain that this guy knows this,
and we don't have any other info. This ticking time bomb situation
is baloney. Reality doesn't happen like that.

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part of
the reality based community.

Again, quoting CHARLES "SCMUCKY" SCHUMER, D NY (one of the most liberal --
and crooked {just ask Micheal Steele} -- US Senators):

"And I'd like to interject a note of balance here. There are times
when we all get in high dudgeon. We ought to be reasonable about this. I
think there are probably very few people in this room or in America who
would say that torture should never, ever be used, particularly if thousands
of lives are at stake.

Take the hypothetical: If we knew that there was a nuclear bomb hidden in an
American city and we believed that some kind of torture, fairly severe
maybe, would give us a chance of finding that bomb before it went off, my
guess is most Americans and most senators, maybe all, would say, "Do what
you have to do."

So it's easy to sit back in the armchair and say that torture can never be
used. But when you're in the foxhole, it's a very different deal.

And I respect -- I think we all respect the fact that the president's in the
foxhole every day. So he can hardly be blamed for asking you or his White
House counsel or the Department of Defense to figure out when it comes to
torture, what the law allows and when the law allows it and what there is
permission to do."

Want to REALLY torture a terrorist? Put him inbetween Schumer and a TV
camera! Oh, the inhumanity...

Thinking that Schumer is a true liberal is NOT being part of the reality
based community.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

Bill Sornson said:

Tom Sherman said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:06:21 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

> If there was a nuclear bomb hidden in NYC or LA or Chicago, and you
> had the mastermind in custody, what would you do? Ask Chuck
> Schumer? Save millions of innocent people or rough up a terrorist?
> Real tough call.
Watching 24 a lot, huh?

How is it possible that we know for certain that this guy knows this,
and we don't have any other info. This ticking time bomb situation
is baloney. Reality doesn't happen like that.

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part of
the reality based community.

Again, quoting CHARLES "SCMUCKY" SCHUMER, D NY (one of the most liberal --
and crooked {just ask Micheal Steele} -- US Senators):

"And I'd like to interject a note of balance here. There are times
when we all get in high dudgeon. We ought to be reasonable about this. I
think there are probably very few people in this room or in America who
would say that torture should never, ever be used, particularly if thousands
of lives are at stake.

Take the hypothetical: If we knew that there was a nuclear bomb hidden in an
American city and we believed that some kind of torture, fairly severe
maybe, would give us a chance of finding that bomb before it went off, my
guess is most Americans and most senators, maybe all, would say, "Do what
you have to do."

So it's easy to sit back in the armchair and say that torture can never be
used. But when you're in the foxhole, it's a very different deal.

And I respect -- I think we all respect the fact that the president's in the
foxhole every day. So he can hardly be blamed for asking you or his White
House counsel or the Department of Defense to figure out when it comes to
torture, what the law allows and when the law allows it and what there is
permission to do."

Want to REALLY torture a terrorist? Put him inbetween Schumer and a TV
camera! Oh, the inhumanity...

Thinking that Schumer is a true liberal is NOT being part of the reality
based community.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part of
the reality based community.

No, but they do a heck of a marketing and advertising job to convince
significant numbers of the people that they are. It's really very
impressive how they manage to pull it off as a long term strategy -
it's brainwashing at it's finest. Look at how convinced guys like
Sorni are as they regurgitate utter [censored].

The left would try to do the same, but they don't have anywhere near
the consistent coordination to pull it off.

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part of
the reality based community.

No, but they do a heck of a marketing and advertising job to convince
significant numbers of the people that they are. It's really very
impressive how they manage to pull it off as a long term strategy -
it's brainwashing at it's finest. Look at how convinced guys like
Sorni are as they regurgitate utter [censored].

The left would try to do the same, but they don't have anywhere near
the consistent coordination to pull it off.

Ron Ruff said:

BTW... who is Chuck Schumer?

Sorry... I should have read down a little farther. Well now that I've
read one quote of his, I can say that I don't agree with any of it.

Ron Ruff said:

BTW... who is Chuck Schumer?

Sorry... I should have read down a little farther. Well now that I've
read one quote of his, I can say that I don't agree with any of it.

still me said:

Tom Sherman said:

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part of
the reality based community.

No, but they do a heck of a marketing and advertising job to convince
significant numbers of the people that they are. It's really very
impressive how they manage to pull it off as a long term strategy -
it's brainwashing at it's finest. Look at how convinced guys like
Sorni are as they regurgitate utter [censored].

The left would try to do the same, but they don't have anywhere near
the consistent coordination to pull it off.

The right-wing owns almost all of the mainstream media outlets in the US.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

still me said:

Tom Sherman said:

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part of
the reality based community.

No, but they do a heck of a marketing and advertising job to convince
significant numbers of the people that they are. It's really very
impressive how they manage to pull it off as a long term strategy -
it's brainwashing at it's finest. Look at how convinced guys like
Sorni are as they regurgitate utter [censored].

The left would try to do the same, but they don't have anywhere near
the consistent coordination to pull it off.

The right-wing owns almost all of the mainstream media outlets in the US.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

still me said:

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 09:06:04 -0600, Tom Sherman
<[email hidden]> wrote:

{CONTEXT??????????????????????????????}

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part of
the reality based community.

Quoted message said:

No, but they do a heck of a marketing and advertising job to convince
significant numbers of the people that they are. It's really very
impressive how they manage to pull it off as a long term strategy -
it's brainwashing at it's finest. Look at how convinced guys like
Sorni are as they regurgitate utter [censored].

The left would try to do the same, but they don't have anywhere near
the consistent coordination to pull it off.

Moron, 85% of the mainstream media is liberal and pro-Democrat. It's
amazing that any conservative and/or Republican ever gets elected.

HTH (BKIW)

still me said:

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 09:06:04 -0600, Tom Sherman
<[email hidden]> wrote:

{CONTEXT??????????????????????????????}

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part of
the reality based community.

Quoted message said:

No, but they do a heck of a marketing and advertising job to convince
significant numbers of the people that they are. It's really very
impressive how they manage to pull it off as a long term strategy -
it's brainwashing at it's finest. Look at how convinced guys like
Sorni are as they regurgitate utter [censored].

The left would try to do the same, but they don't have anywhere near
the consistent coordination to pull it off.

Moron, 85% of the mainstream media is liberal and pro-Democrat. It's
amazing that any conservative and/or Republican ever gets elected.

HTH (BKIW)

Tom Sherman said:

still me said:

Tom Sherman said:

Please remember that the current USian political right is NOT part
of the reality based community.

No, but they do a heck of a marketing and advertising job to convince
significant numbers of the people that they are. It's really very
impressive how they manage to pull it off as a long term strategy -
it's brainwashing at it's finest. Look at how convinced guys like
Sorni are as they regurgitate utter [censored].

The left would try to do the same, but they don't have anywhere near
the consistent coordination to pull it off.

The right-wing owns almost all of the mainstream media outlets in the
US.

Total [censored], of course, but ever if it were true the MEMBERS of the media
vote 85% Democrat. Look it up.