Thoughts please

Zog The Undeniable said:

The trouble with fluorescent materials is you need real daylight, or at least a light source with
lots of UV in it.

There are "daylight" lamps. Would some photography equipment or one of those lamps designed to help
with S.A.D. deliver the right light?

What to do with the light is the difficult problem. I'll have a think.

For reflectives, a torch hand held besides the eye is even better than a head torch.

~PB

James Annan said:

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The theme for next year is "light" so I've been putting my thinking cap on.

Quoted message said:

Why not a demonstration of the magic whereby a cyclist becomes wholly invisible the moment they put
on bright yellow flourescent clothing.

It's called selective attention. Bright clothing is irrelevant. There's an entertaining gorilla
video in various forms which demonstrates this. The video is of several people in a close group
tossing a couple of large balls between each other. You're asked to do something like count the
passes. While you're doing this someone in a gorilla suit walks right in front of the camera, jumps
about beating his chest, and walks off. Most people when asked afterwards never noticved the
gorilla, and feel awful fools when they watch it again and can't help seeing the gorilla.

Tests with motorcyclists on what was the brightest most noticeable kind of clothing found that the
important thing isn't how bright and garish and illuminated you are, what matters is how closely you
resemble a policeman on a motorcycle, because drivers *are* attuned to keeping an eye out for them.

The problem with folk who don't see cyclists is that they don't care. It's not a problem of
visibility, it's a problem of caring and selective attention.

This is also demonstrated by those places where the practice of assuming by default that drivers are
at fault in car/bike accidents is instigated. This has always resulted in an immediate dramatic drop
in car/bike accients.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's
Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK ["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Peter Clinch said:

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

vague idea at the minute is to run *something* to show how during daylight, fluorescent colours
are highly visible and how at night, reflectives are better. possibly I'll have some sort of set
up where I have a dark box, with a light at one end & something reflective at the other. and am
getting my head around the fluorescent bit...

No practicals to add from the other posts, but I'd think if you can use cycle clothing and have an
obvious *wow!* then that might have a useful and positive extra message without ramming it down
people's throats.

Another interesting factoid is that you can usually see the light from a remote control on a digital
camera wheras you can't with the naked eye.

Having various bits of clothing with different properties would be fun.. Bright colours (i.e fluo
yellow), reflectives, proper fluorescent that are only visible under UV.

How about stuff for colour blindness? Can you get hold of some of those dot cards that
opticians have?

..d

AndyP said:

I'm sure the kiddies would be more impressed if you just burnt shedloads of magnesium and said "Et
voila, some light" as they screwed up their eyes.

What a waste of a very expensive bike frame tho

--
Sig got lost during a reinstall

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

For the last couple of years I've been involved in running a science

based

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"stall" at the Spring Fling which is an annual event held at the Norfolk Showground. Each year
the Fling has a theme. Last year's was "water" so

I had a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spectacularly messy stall with seeming zillions of kids dunking

biscuits... but

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that's another long story.

The theme for next year is "light" so I've been putting my thinking cap

on. My

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

vague idea at the minute is to run *something* to show how during

daylight,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fluorescent colours are highly visible and how at night, reflectives are better. possibly I'll
have some sort of set up where I have a dark box,

with a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

light at one end & something reflective at the other. and am getting my

head

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

around the fluorescent bit...

So - collective picking of brains, please - any ideas???

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get correct one remove dependency on fame
& fortune h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**s@$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$

The trouble with fluorescent materials is you need real daylight, or at least a light source with
lots of UV in it.

=============
Possibly an ultraviolet heat lamp from Boots? We used to call them 'sunlamps'.

Cic.

Zog The Undeniable said:

The trouble with fluorescent materials is you need real daylight, or at least a light source with
lots of UV in it.

There are "daylight" lamps. Would some photography equipment or one of those lamps designed to help
with S.A.D. deliver the right light?

What to do with the light is the difficult problem. I'll have a think.

For reflectives, a torch hand held besides the eye is even better than a head torch.

~PB

James Annan said:

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The theme for next year is "light" so I've been putting my thinking cap on.

Quoted message said:

Why not a demonstration of the magic whereby a cyclist becomes wholly invisible the moment they put
on bright yellow flourescent clothing.

It's called selective attention. Bright clothing is irrelevant. There's an entertaining gorilla
video in various forms which demonstrates this. The video is of several people in a close group
tossing a couple of large balls between each other. You're asked to do something like count the
passes. While you're doing this someone in a gorilla suit walks right in front of the camera, jumps
about beating his chest, and walks off. Most people when asked afterwards never noticved the
gorilla, and feel awful fools when they watch it again and can't help seeing the gorilla.

Tests with motorcyclists on what was the brightest most noticeable kind of clothing found that the
important thing isn't how bright and garish and illuminated you are, what matters is how closely you
resemble a policeman on a motorcycle, because drivers *are* attuned to keeping an eye out for them.

The problem with folk who don't see cyclists is that they don't care. It's not a problem of
visibility, it's a problem of caring and selective attention.

This is also demonstrated by those places where the practice of assuming by default that drivers are
at fault in car/bike accidents is instigated. This has always resulted in an immediate dramatic drop
in car/bike accients.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's
Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK ["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Peter Clinch said:

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

vague idea at the minute is to run *something* to show how during daylight, fluorescent colours
are highly visible and how at night, reflectives are better. possibly I'll have some sort of set
up where I have a dark box, with a light at one end & something reflective at the other. and am
getting my head around the fluorescent bit...

No practicals to add from the other posts, but I'd think if you can use cycle clothing and have an
obvious *wow!* then that might have a useful and positive extra message without ramming it down
people's throats.

Another interesting factoid is that you can usually see the light from a remote control on a digital
camera wheras you can't with the naked eye.

Having various bits of clothing with different properties would be fun.. Bright colours (i.e fluo
yellow), reflectives, proper fluorescent that are only visible under UV.

How about stuff for colour blindness? Can you get hold of some of those dot cards that
opticians have?

..d

AndyP said:

I'm sure the kiddies would be more impressed if you just burnt shedloads of magnesium and said "Et
voila, some light" as they screwed up their eyes.

What a waste of a very expensive bike frame tho

--
Sig got lost during a reinstall

David Martin said:

Having various bits of clothing with different properties would be fun.. Bright colours (i.e fluo
yellow), reflectives, proper fluorescent that are only visible under UV.

One of my physics teachers at school did a good trick with fluorescent materials. He got some
washing powder with optical brighteners in it and sneakily scattered it on people's jackets hanging
by the lab door. He then produced, with a flourish, the "Dandruff Detector" (UV lamp) and shone it
carefully at the collars of the jackets. The mortification of the more gullible members of the class
was a sight to behold...

Regards,

-david

David Martin said:

On 3/12/03 8:48 am, in article [email hidden], "Peter Clinch"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

How about stuff for colour blindness? Can you get hold of some of those dot cards that
opticians have?

Isihara colour charts, if I've got the name right. A Google should find some.

Not much to do with cycling per se though.

Helen needs some fun sort of demo.

Something elaborate springs to mind - a shooting range. A cardboard cyclist emerges at random from
one side. The child has to spot and shoot the cyclist with a Nerf gun or rubber dart gun. Dress the
cyclists all in black, and another in reflective gear. Yes, this is highly distasteful - how about
some sort of aiming game where the 'driver' has to miss the cyclist? Anyway, the idea is to time
how fast the 'driver' sees the 'cyclist' once the figure emerges. Maybe a simply timer circuit with
a trigger?

David Martin said:

Peter Clinch said:

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

vague idea at the minute is to run *something* to show how during daylight, fluorescent colours
are highly visible and how at night, reflectives are better. possibly I'll have some sort of set
up where I have a dark box, with a light at one end & something reflective at the other. and am
getting my head around the fluorescent bit...

No practicals to add from the other posts, but I'd think if you can use cycle clothing and have
an obvious *wow!* then that might have a useful and positive extra message without ramming it
down people's throats.

Another interesting factoid is that you can usually see the light from a remote control on a
digital camera wheras you can't with the naked eye.

Yes, we have one of those Sony digital video cameras with "nightshot" or some such, which turns out
to be infra red LEDs and an IR sensitive
CCD. It certainly sees the light from remote controls.

I found a more interesting use for it when our ceramic topped hob broke down - it's one of those
things with apparently a deep red glass-like top and heating elements underneath, which glow a deep
red when they're turned on as well as a halogen one that glows a bright red. Anyway, I discovered
that if I switched the camera to nightshot and turned off the room lights, I could see right through
the transparent-to-infrared top to all the gubbins inside. That was quite amazing, in the IR the top
was as clear as glass is in the visible.

Well, I thought it was neat, anyway. It meant I had some idea what to expect when I pulled the back
off, and I did manage to fix it!

--
Trevor Barton

In "]news:[email hidden], Richard Bates
<[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

AndyP said:

I'm sure the kiddies would be more impressed if you just burnt shedloads of magnesium and said
"Et voila, some light" as they screwed up their eyes.

What a waste of a very expensive bike frame tho

Expensive, but by reputation, rubbish. You could use a ready cracked one anyway.

David Martin said:

Having various bits of clothing with different properties would be fun.. Bright colours (i.e fluo
yellow), reflectives, proper fluorescent that are only visible under UV.

One of my physics teachers at school did a good trick with fluorescent materials. He got some
washing powder with optical brighteners in it and sneakily scattered it on people's jackets hanging
by the lab door. He then produced, with a flourish, the "Dandruff Detector" (UV lamp) and shone it
carefully at the collars of the jackets. The mortification of the more gullible members of the class
was a sight to behold...

Regards,

-david

David Martin said:

On 3/12/03 8:48 am, in article [email hidden], "Peter Clinch"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

How about stuff for colour blindness? Can you get hold of some of those dot cards that
opticians have?

Isihara colour charts, if I've got the name right. A Google should find some.

Not much to do with cycling per se though.

Helen needs some fun sort of demo.

Something elaborate springs to mind - a shooting range. A cardboard cyclist emerges at random from
one side. The child has to spot and shoot the cyclist with a Nerf gun or rubber dart gun. Dress the
cyclists all in black, and another in reflective gear. Yes, this is highly distasteful - how about
some sort of aiming game where the 'driver' has to miss the cyclist? Anyway, the idea is to time
how fast the 'driver' sees the 'cyclist' once the figure emerges. Maybe a simply timer circuit with
a trigger?

David Martin said:

Peter Clinch said:

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

vague idea at the minute is to run *something* to show how during daylight, fluorescent colours
are highly visible and how at night, reflectives are better. possibly I'll have some sort of set
up where I have a dark box, with a light at one end & something reflective at the other. and am
getting my head around the fluorescent bit...

No practicals to add from the other posts, but I'd think if you can use cycle clothing and have
an obvious *wow!* then that might have a useful and positive extra message without ramming it
down people's throats.

Another interesting factoid is that you can usually see the light from a remote control on a
digital camera wheras you can't with the naked eye.

Yes, we have one of those Sony digital video cameras with "nightshot" or some such, which turns out
to be infra red LEDs and an IR sensitive
CCD. It certainly sees the light from remote controls.

I found a more interesting use for it when our ceramic topped hob broke down - it's one of those
things with apparently a deep red glass-like top and heating elements underneath, which glow a deep
red when they're turned on as well as a halogen one that glows a bright red. Anyway, I discovered
that if I switched the camera to nightshot and turned off the room lights, I could see right through
the transparent-to-infrared top to all the gubbins inside. That was quite amazing, in the IR the top
was as clear as glass is in the visible.

Well, I thought it was neat, anyway. It meant I had some idea what to expect when I pulled the back
off, and I did manage to fix it!

--
Trevor Barton

In "]news:[email hidden], Richard Bates
<[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

AndyP said:

I'm sure the kiddies would be more impressed if you just burnt shedloads of magnesium and said
"Et voila, some light" as they screwed up their eyes.

What a waste of a very expensive bike frame tho

Expensive, but by reputation, rubbish. You could use a ready cracked one anyway.

"David Nutter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One of my physics teachers at school did a good trick with fluorescent materials. He got some
washing powder with optical brighteners in it and sneakily scattered it on people's jackets
hanging by the lab door. He then produced, with a flourish, the "Dandruff Detector" (UV lamp) and
shone it carefully at the collars of the jackets. The mortification of the more gullible members
of the class was a sight to behold...

He was subsequently successfully sued by the students for mental cruelty leading to long term
personality disorders, was he? ;-)
___
Michael MacClancy

David Nutter said:

David Martin said:

Having various bits of clothing with different properties would be fun.. Bright colours (i.e
fluo yellow), reflectives, proper fluorescent that are only visible under UV.

One of my physics teachers at school did a good trick with fluorescent materials. He got some
washing powder with optical brighteners in it and sneakily scattered it on people's jackets
hanging by the lab door. He then produced, with a flourish, the "Dandruff Detector" (UV lamp) and
shone it carefully at the collars of the jackets. The mortification of the more gullible members
of the class was a sight to behold...

The sort of thing that would quite rightly be frowned upon nowadays!

--
Marc. Please note the above address is a spam trap, use marcc to reply Printing for clubs of all
types jaceeprint.demon.co.ukjaceeprint.demon.co.ukOpen ↗ Stickers, banners & clothing, for clubs,teams, magazines
and dealers.

"David Nutter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One of my physics teachers at school did a good trick with fluorescent materials. He got some
washing powder with optical brighteners in it and sneakily scattered it on people's jackets
hanging by the lab door. He then produced, with a flourish, the "Dandruff Detector" (UV lamp) and
shone it carefully at the collars of the jackets. The mortification of the more gullible members
of the class was a sight to behold...

He was subsequently successfully sued by the students for mental cruelty leading to long term
personality disorders, was he? ;-)
___
Michael MacClancy