Track work

shinypenny said:

I discovered a new track (outdoor) that's 1.25 miles away from my
house. So my routine this week has been to run up to the track, run
around the track for a mile, and run home. Now I'm thinking there are
better uses for this track, and I should be using it for speedwork.

Can anyone suggest a good plan to start with? Something I can do
through the fall before the snow hits and covers the track? How many
times a week? What do I do on the track?

Please be very simplistic and talk to me like I have no idea what I'm
doing, because I don't. I look at those 5K training plans, and I have
no idea what they mean by repeats and can't dicipher the code they
use. I do think I've figured out how they mark the meters off on this
track, so that part is okay.

Goals: the only goal I have had is to keep up consistent running for a
full year. I have been averaging about 10-12 miles a week for awhile.

Speedwork is not consistent with your goal. The benefit of speedwork,
assuming you're prepared for it, is speed, which is not what you're
looking for. The risk of speedwork is injury, which is what you're
specifically looking to avoid. Wait until after you've been running
consistently to do speedwork, not before.

Quoted message said:

At the end of this month will be a full year. There is a 5K coming up
in two weeks, which I ran last year. I may or may not run it this year
- it depends on how my joints are doing, and it will be a day-of-race
decision. Right now they seem to be holding up okay (going on 5 days
with no stiffness or pain). But I doubt there's much I can do in two
weeks to train for a 5k, right?

Right.

Quoted message said:

jen

shinypenny said:

I discovered a new track (outdoor) that's 1.25 miles away from my
house. So my routine this week has been to run up to the track, run
around the track for a mile, and run home. Now I'm thinking there are
better uses for this track, and I should be using it for speedwork.

Can anyone suggest a good plan to start with? Something I can do
through the fall before the snow hits and covers the track? How many
times a week? What do I do on the track?

Please be very simplistic and talk to me like I have no idea what I'm
doing, because I don't. I look at those 5K training plans, and I have
no idea what they mean by repeats and can't dicipher the code they
use. I do think I've figured out how they mark the meters off on this
track, so that part is okay.

Goals: the only goal I have had is to keep up consistent running for a
full year. I have been averaging about 10-12 miles a week for awhile.
At the end of this month will be a full year. There is a 5K coming up
in two weeks, which I ran last year. I may or may not run it this year
- it depends on how my joints are doing, and it will be a day-of-race
decision. Right now they seem to be holding up okay (going on 5 days
with no stiffness or pain). But I doubt there's much I can do in two
weeks to train for a 5k, right?

jen

there are lots of good track workouts you can do... I like running
300's and 400's (at about 120% of race pace) of 600's at or above race
pace. Something like that would work.

john

shinypenny said:

I discovered a new track (outdoor) that's 1.25 miles away from my
house. So my routine this week has been to run up to the track, run
around the track for a mile, and run home. Now I'm thinking there are
better uses for this track, and I should be using it for speedwork.

Can anyone suggest a good plan to start with? Something I can do
through the fall before the snow hits and covers the track? How many
times a week? What do I do on the track?

Please be very simplistic and talk to me like I have no idea what I'm
doing, because I don't. I look at those 5K training plans, and I have
no idea what they mean by repeats and can't dicipher the code they
use. I do think I've figured out how they mark the meters off on this
track, so that part is okay.

Goals: the only goal I have had is to keep up consistent running for a
full year. I have been averaging about 10-12 miles a week for awhile.
At the end of this month will be a full year. There is a 5K coming up
in two weeks, which I ran last year. I may or may not run it this year
- it depends on how my joints are doing, and it will be a day-of-race
decision. Right now they seem to be holding up okay (going on 5 days
with no stiffness or pain). But I doubt there's much I can do in two
weeks to train for a 5k, right?

jen

there are lots of good track workouts you can do... I like running
300's and 400's (at about 120% of race pace) of 600's at or above race
pace. Something like that would work.

john

"tfactor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

shinypenny said:

I discovered a new track (outdoor) that's 1.25 miles away from my
house. So my routine this week has been to run up to the track, run
around the track for a mile, and run home. Now I'm thinking there are
better uses for this track, and I should be using it for speedwork.

Can anyone suggest a good plan to start with? Something I can do
through the fall before the snow hits and covers the track? How many
times a week? What do I do on the track?

Please be very simplistic and talk to me like I have no idea what I'm
doing, because I don't. I look at those 5K training plans, and I have
no idea what they mean by repeats and can't dicipher the code they
use. I do think I've figured out how they mark the meters off on this
track, so that part is okay.

Goals: the only goal I have had is to keep up consistent running for a
full year. I have been averaging about 10-12 miles a week for awhile.

Speedwork is not consistent with your goal. The benefit of speedwork,
assuming you're prepared for it, is speed, which is not what you're
looking for. The risk of speedwork is injury, which is what you're
specifically looking to avoid. Wait until after you've been running
consistently to do speedwork, not before.

Quoted message said:

At the end of this month will be a full year. There is a 5K coming up
in two weeks, which I ran last year. I may or may not run it this year
- it depends on how my joints are doing, and it will be a day-of-race
decision. Right now they seem to be holding up okay (going on 5 days
with no stiffness or pain). But I doubt there's much I can do in two
weeks to train for a 5k, right?

Right.

Quoted message said:

jen

I agree, avoid speedwork for now. Try strides, do some faster running once a
week, but not too fast, just tempo pace. I was running a lot of miles (for
me) earlier this year, and I tried speedwork. Nope, it set me back, tweaking
various things. Your body has to be very balanced and your running base
well-established to accommodate speedwork.

Also, figure out the source(s) of your inflammation problems if you can. For
me it's directly related to dietary habits and choices.

-Tony

"tfactor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

shinypenny said:

I discovered a new track (outdoor) that's 1.25 miles away from my
house. So my routine this week has been to run up to the track, run
around the track for a mile, and run home. Now I'm thinking there are
better uses for this track, and I should be using it for speedwork.

Can anyone suggest a good plan to start with? Something I can do
through the fall before the snow hits and covers the track? How many
times a week? What do I do on the track?

Please be very simplistic and talk to me like I have no idea what I'm
doing, because I don't. I look at those 5K training plans, and I have
no idea what they mean by repeats and can't dicipher the code they
use. I do think I've figured out how they mark the meters off on this
track, so that part is okay.

Goals: the only goal I have had is to keep up consistent running for a
full year. I have been averaging about 10-12 miles a week for awhile.

Speedwork is not consistent with your goal. The benefit of speedwork,
assuming you're prepared for it, is speed, which is not what you're
looking for. The risk of speedwork is injury, which is what you're
specifically looking to avoid. Wait until after you've been running
consistently to do speedwork, not before.

Quoted message said:

At the end of this month will be a full year. There is a 5K coming up
in two weeks, which I ran last year. I may or may not run it this year
- it depends on how my joints are doing, and it will be a day-of-race
decision. Right now they seem to be holding up okay (going on 5 days
with no stiffness or pain). But I doubt there's much I can do in two
weeks to train for a 5k, right?

Right.

Quoted message said:

jen

I agree, avoid speedwork for now. Try strides, do some faster running once a
week, but not too fast, just tempo pace. I was running a lot of miles (for
me) earlier this year, and I tried speedwork. Nope, it set me back, tweaking
various things. Your body has to be very balanced and your running base
well-established to accommodate speedwork.

Also, figure out the source(s) of your inflammation problems if you can. For
me it's directly related to dietary habits and choices.

-Tony

Tony S. said:

Also, figure out the source(s) of your inflammation problems if you can. For
me it's directly related to dietary habits and choices.

Looks like the issue is psoriatic arthritis. X-rays show no damage, so
that's the good news. Also exercise is supposed to be good, so my
doctor is encouraging me to keep it up (he says I'm doing all the
right things, diet and exercise-wise), but of course to be reasonable
and if I'm having a bad day, ease off.

It does seem like there's a correlation between increasing distance,
and the aches flaring up. I'm okay running just 10-12 miles, whether
it is spread out over 3, 4 or 5 days. It's when I try to go beyond
that - no matter how carefully and slowly and gently I go - that I run
into problems. So I was figuring maybe speedwork would be something I
could work on instead.

I like to have goals, and it sucks not to be able to have any.

jen

tfactor said:

Speedwork is not consistent with your goal. The benefit of speedwork,
assuming you're prepared for it, is speed, which is not what you're
looking for. The risk of speedwork is injury, which is what you're
specifically looking to avoid. Wait until after you've been running
consistently to do speedwork, not before.

But I have been running consistently for 50 straight weeks.

jen

shinypenny said:

tfactor said:

Speedwork is not consistent with your goal. The benefit of speedwork,
assuming you're prepared for it, is speed, which is not what you're
looking for. The risk of speedwork is injury, which is what you're
specifically looking to avoid. Wait until after you've been running
consistently to do speedwork, not before.

But I have been running consistently for 50 straight weeks.

jen

Jen,
That's a good start, but not a solid base unless you were a pro biker
etc before taking up running. If you are doing 90 minutes x 5 days,
you maybe ready, but I will personally guarantee you that if you
start speedwork now you'll come up injured within a very short time.
Speedwork=inurys, it's a fact.

shinypenny said:

I like to have goals, and it sucks not to be able to have any.

jen

How about not getting injured? That's a pretty good goal.

Quoted message said:

shinypenny said:

I like to have goals, and it sucks not to be able to have any.

Quoted message said:

jen

How about not getting injured? That's a pretty good goal.

That was my goal for the past year, and overall I did pretty well with
that. Yes I had aches and pains but I would always back off, listen to
my body, and they never became full-blown injuries.

Sigh. I was just trying to think of a new goal for the coming year.

Okay maybe I'll just have to make a new goal that has nothing to do
with running. Like, join a yoga class. Or do some weight training. I
wouldn't mind doing something that would strengthen my muscles, to
help protect my joints.

jen

shinypenny said:

Quoted message said:

On Oct 16, 10:33 am, shinypenny <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I like to have goals, and it sucks not to be able to have any.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

jen

Quoted message said:

How about not getting injured? That's a pretty good goal.

That was my goal for the past year, and overall I did pretty well with
that. Yes I had aches and pains but I would always back off, listen to
my body, and they never became full-blown injuries.

Sigh. I was just trying to think of a new goal for the coming year.

Okay maybe I'll just have to make a new goal that has nothing to do
with running. Like, join a yoga class. Or do some weight training. I
wouldn't mind doing something that would strengthen my muscles, to
help protect my joints.

jen

Since you mention yoga, what kind of stretching do you do? That might
be the thing you are missing to progress.

I have a good habit of doing a set of stretches after a run. I don't
often stretch on off days, which is a big weakness of mine. But I can
tell some of the benefits of stretching. I'm more comfortable in other
activitites (or inactivities as the case may be). One reference (I
don't recall the source) notes that running economy comes from freedom
of movement, IOW, being flexible. So adding stretching to you program
might be a good goal for the next step.

meanwhile, for the track itself, you could use it just for reference.
Running speedwork is like racing, you don't want to do it too often
since there is a risk of injury.

here's comments on intervals from the running FAQ:
=====================================================================================
Interval training ([email hidden])

First off, keep in mind that the interval part of the run is the rest
part.
This is where your body recovers and strengthens itself.

Secondly, say your goal is to run an 8 minute/mile 10k. Start your
intervals by doing 5X400m at a little under 2 minutes per rep. You'll
see
that an 8min mile is a 2min 400, so to better that, you run a little
faster, as I said. Walk or jog between the rep (this is the interval).
Remember to keep with what you started at. If you jogged to rest,
don't
walk during the next interval.

Intervals should be challenging, but not defeating. If you are having
problems maintaining your form during the course of the whole run, you
are
doing too much. You should feel good at the end of your run, not ready
to
drop dead.

Remember to warmup and cool down sufficiently before and after
intervals.
10 minutes of jogging is suggested.

Other things to remember: you can customize intervals to achieve
different
things. For example, to increase endurance, you can decrease your
interval
while running the same rep. Or you can increase the rep and still do
the
same interval. You can work on speed by running faster reps. There are
other variations as well, but I don't remember all of them.

Lastly, make sure you have a good aerobic base when you start, and
don't do
too much too fast. You can tire your muscles out, and it will take a
while
to recover.

Your goal is to exercise your fast twitch muscles, those used for
speed.
I've been doing intervals for about 2 months now, and it has made a
difference. The first race I ran after starting intervals, my time
dropped
by about 15 seconds. I have a race tomorrow, and am hoping to improve
on
that. I also notice I have more pep in my regular workouts. I get out
there, and once I'm warmed up, my body wants to run fast.

===========================================================================

The main rec.running FAQ is maintained by Ozzie Gontang

Answers to questions frequently asked in rec.running are available.
the web site: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
=============================================================================

Intervals do not have to result in injury. Running for a year might
allow you to try a few. Just do not be aggressive. just heed the
advice from here and the FAQ, combined with your own sense of ability
and performance level. Was it Plato that said "moderation in all
things"? But that's what works for the majority of us. (the pros push
the limits, that's their job!)

Enjoy the run!
ed

shinypenny said:

I discovered a new track (outdoor) that's 1.25 miles away from my
house. So my routine this week has been to run up to the track, run
around the track for a mile, and run home. Now I'm thinking there are
better uses for this track, and I should be using it for speedwork.

Can anyone suggest a good plan to start with? Something I can do
through the fall before the snow hits and covers the track? How many
times a week? What do I do on the track?

Please be very simplistic and talk to me like I have no idea what I'm
doing, because I don't. I look at those 5K training plans, and I have
no idea what they mean by repeats and can't dicipher the code they
use.

My approach to training plans or individual workouts *for myself* is
that if I can't read it, I shouldn't be doing it. I'm serious when I say
that. A workout has a goal. If I understand enough of what the
background behind the workout is, then I should be able to understand
their gibberish. If I haven't taken the time to read the background and
understand it, then *I* shouldn't do it. And if there's no background
behind the stated workout, then I still shouldn't be doing it (that's
more a statement on some of the cookie cutter stuff on some websites).
Like I said, it's *my* approach to training. (In general, what I do is
try to understand the goal of particular workouts / approaches, then
figure out something that works for me on trails at my speeds - like
800-m might be better interpreted as some time range near 4 minutes or a
400-m distance (since I'm about half speed); short spurts might be
Lydiard hill drills to deliver the acceleration, etc.)

Quoted message said:

I do think I've figured out how they mark the meters off on this
track, so that part is okay.

The one and only time I used a track (all of 2 laps), I had to think to
even figure out which way was normal direction.😉 Fortunately, they had
a short hs xc course in the woods around the athletic field, which I
checked out that day, but haven't used it in years.

Quoted message said:

Goals: the only goal I have had is to keep up consistent running for a
full year. I have been averaging about 10-12 miles a week for awhile.
At the end of this month will be a full year.

Great progress! Keep it up and work with your weaknesses.

Quoted message said:

But I doubt there's much I can do in two
weeks to train for a 5k, right?

Right. I wouldn't change anything that close to your race.

From a later post:

Quoted message said:

It does seem like there's a correlation between increasing distance,
and the aches flaring up. I'm okay running just 10-12 miles, whether
it is spread out over 3, 4 or 5 days. It's when I try to go beyond
that - no matter how carefully and slowly and gently I go - that I run
into problems. So I was figuring maybe speedwork would be something I
could work on instead.

You may find that if you try doing harder work, the same thing will
happen (bad). Or the form might be different enough that you don't have
any problems (good), at least initially. (Sometimes when running slowly
and getting tired, just doing a pickup gives the slow running muscles a
break.) But you may also find that the different surface of the track
rubberized (assuming), flatter interacts differently with your body -
either being kinder to it or aggravating it (my body needs variability).

What you might consider (as in try gently once and evaluate) is fartleks
where you pick up the effort a little in going from one landmark to
another. On a track, this could be run the straights, jog the curves. On
road, it could be running harder until next telephone pole or to top of
hill or whatever. With your low mileage, I'd raise the effort a little,
but still keep it aerobic - conversational effort, but breathing just a
little harder and still able to talk with short-medium sentences.

When I used Roy Benson's pgm initially, he did use workouts called
"aerobic speed", even for fairly low mileage (like 10-20mpw), which
introduced us into what I now call "high-end aerobic". It's a fairly
safe way of introducing higher efforts since we didn't spend much time
there and it wasn't that much above where we were running anyway. We
were using hrm, so it was fairly well defined as to what effort to use.
After straying from it for awhile, I have since returned to that general
approach since it does work really well for me. Some people panic when
one says "higher effort" or "speedwork" and automatically think you're
doing something really hard on low mileage. There are gradations in
there where you are running faster / harder than easy, but not into the
traditional "speedwork" zones, which I still haven't gone into in
training (well maybe once a year). Just some thoughts.

Good luck. Introduce new stuff cautiously, esp. with your history.
Sometimes the new stuff may work better than the old stuff, sometimes not.

Dot

--
"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I
have of it."
-Thomas Jefferson, third President of the United States

"shinypenny" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Can anyone suggest a good plan to start with? Something I can do
through the fall before the snow hits and covers the track? How many
times a week? What do I do on the track?

Hi Jen,

I agree with the prophets of Doom -- hard speedwork is asking for trouble.

Most people go too hard when starting speedwork, and when run too hard, it's
painful, and can get you injured in a hurry.

If you think you can be disciplined and careful, and you're itching to try
it, I'd advise a few 400m repeats, maybe 3-4, at a pace about 1.5
minutes/mile faster than your normal easy pace. If your typical pace is 10
min/mile, do them in about 2:08 (8:32 pace).

Jog a lap to recover (if you have to walk at the end, you went waaay too
fast) after each rep. If it hurts to do that, the answer is: go slower!

The notation for this would be something like:

2 mile warmup, 4x400, 400j, 1 mile cooldown. This is a 4.75 mile workout.

Then carefully watch for symptoms in the following days :-) I wouldn't do
this more than once/week, preferably after a rest day. If you survive
without injury, after a few weeks you'll probably be several percent faster
in your next race.

Now if you find that your quads are loading up and burning during the 400,
you went too fast -- slow down. Keep the effort at just a hint of leg burn,
on the threshold. If you're straining at the end, you went too fast. The
goal is smooth relaxed speed.

If you can lock in to the effort level required to maintain that pace, try
to run by feel from then on and ignore the watch. Let your body will tell
you how fast it wants to go.

One of the problems with speedwork is that you need 20-30 minutes to warmup.
I always run easy for about 3 miles (takes me a bit under 30 minutes) just
to get things loosened up and my aerobic systems warmed up. Then I start
the workout proper.

If you only run 3 miles a day, you can see the problem -- your muscles and
aerobic systems aren't sufficiently warmed up until you're done for the day.

Those of us who've worked up to 7+ miles a day look forward to the 30 minute
mark when things start clicking and the second wind kicks in.

-- Dan

Tony said:

figure out the source(s) of your inflammation problems if you can. For
me it's directly related to dietary habits and choices.

Care to elaborate - what's good or bad for you?

shinypenny said:

But I doubt there's much I can do in two
weeks to train for a 5k, right?

I agree with most everything else already said on this thread,
including Dan's stress of the need for thorough warmup before fast
running.

But I also think that, while two weeks isn't really enough time for
training to yield physiological changes, some bits of fast (at say
your 5k race pace) running might help psychologically. Whether these
are characterized as "neurological" implying a more mechanistic
mechanism or as "in the mind", the affect of being somewhat accustomed
to race paces can be significant. As many runners are reminded each
year when they begin running intervals and find the second week so
much easier than the first, and the next few weeks and/or faster yet.

If you can fit in some quicker spurts after 20+ minutes of warming up,
IMO that might give you some modest help in trying to run faster in a
couple weeks. Could be a few segments at around 5k pace or effort, or
about half a dozen shorter (~20 seconds) "strides" which accelerate
from the first a bit quicker than your easy pace to the last few at
something approaching the top speed you can manage while remaining
completely relaxed, not tensing up anywhere.

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony said:

figure out the source(s) of your inflammation problems if you can. For
me it's directly related to dietary habits and choices.

Care to elaborate - what's good or bad for you?

Specifically no, generally, refined foods, particularly refined
carbohydrates, seem to produce an inflammatory state if eaten to excess.
I've browsed many books on diet/health, though never follow any of the
prescribed programs fully. Inflammation seems to have many causes in modern
life. Refined foods and how the body handles them seems to be a common theme
in many of those books, as is the theme that so-called healthy fats are very
good for you, etc.

When I eat a diet balanced in protein/fats/carbs, of the right kinds, with
refined carbs strictly limited to post-exercise periods, I tend to feel
healthy and balanced and more supple. OTOH, when I get busy sometimes and
forget what I eat, I tend to be stiff, the joints often feel sore, and I
don't recover as well from exercise; that is, my body gets into a sustained
state of inflammation. What exact balance of foods will work for any one
person is an experiment. Even then, as with many areas of life, knowing and
doing are very different things, and experimenting takes time and
discipline.

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony said:

figure out the source(s) of your inflammation problems if you can. For
me it's directly related to dietary habits and choices.

Care to elaborate - what's good or bad for you?

Since my response was initially to Jen, I can post this link that seems to
summarize some of the points my cryptic comment failed to make:
http://www.womentowomen.com/inflammation/naturalantiinflammatories.asp

tfactor said:

Speedwork is not consistent with your goal. The benefit of speedwork,
assuming you're prepared for it, is speed, which is not what you're
looking for.

Aside from speed, the benefit of speedwork is that, perhaps depending
on your personality, it adds a spark to your running, without which
your training will head into blah territory.

Speedwork improves your coordination and strength, which can act to
reduce injuries throughout your training base.

Charlie Pendejo said:

shinypenny said:

But I doubt there's much I can do in two
weeks to train for a 5k, right?

I agree with most everything else already said on this thread,
including Dan's stress of the need for thorough warmup before fast
running.

But I also think that, while two weeks isn't really enough time for
training to yield physiological changes, some bits of fast (at say
your 5k race pace) running might help psychologically. Whether these
are characterized as "neurological" implying a more mechanistic
mechanism or as "in the mind", the affect of being somewhat accustomed
to race paces can be significant. As many runners are reminded each
year when they begin running intervals and find the second week so
much easier than the first, and the next few weeks and/or faster yet.

If you can fit in some quicker spurts after 20+ minutes of warming up,
IMO that might give you some modest help in trying to run faster in a
couple weeks. Could be a few segments at around 5k pace or effort, or
about half a dozen shorter (~20 seconds) "strides" which accelerate
from the first a bit quicker than your easy pace to the last few at
something approaching the top speed you can manage while remaining
completely relaxed, not tensing up anywhere.

Thanks for this - it was sorta what I was thinking. But now it's only
a week until the 5K, so I'm not going to risk it.

If I continue on this good streak (it's been a week with relatively
little pain - other than some residual stiffness in my thumb - YEAH!),
I will run the 5k next weekend. But I'm not going to set any amitious
goals, because I was struggling with the joint pain for so many weeks
up until now, that I haven't really had any quality running since
early August. I've scraped by keeping up the mileage, but no hills and
not really pushing it.

I'm going to have low expectations, and i think that's probably wise
to do so - but I also can't help try to establish *some* expectations/
goals... so what do you think is reasonable here?

1) Last October - with no conditioning other than walking, I ran in
something like 39 minutes.

2) In March, after running regularly through the winter, I ran around
33 minutes. I think my easy pace was closer to 13-14 minutes before
that 5k, I was only running about 3x's a week, and I was at least 10
lbs heavier.

3) It's a full year of running now, and I'm 15 lbs lighter. Before I
had this arthritis flare up, I was running 4-5x's a week. I have
backed off to 3x's a week, but have kept up an average of 10-12 miles
(just scraping by with that!). My easy pace is about 12 minutes. If I
run short, I can do 11 minutes without too much stress, but lately
since I'm only doing 3x's a week I'm averaging closer to 12. For ex,
today I ran 3.6 miles at 12:00 pace, which was easy. It was hot and
humid today - if it was cooler that would also make a difference - and
weather here this time of year is unpredicatable (for ex last year's
5K it was 50s and very windy - who knows what it will be this year!)

Based on that, I was thinking - awhile back - that breaking 30 minutes
wasn't inconceivable. But then there's this arthritis thing.. so now I
am not as confident about that. Esp since I've backed off on the hills
and stuck only to flat, cushey surfaces since August... and this 5K is
pretty hilly. But it's as hilly as what I would normally run - before
the arthritis flared up.

Your thoughts?

jen