Wind your neck in...

Quoted message said:

Poodling about in the bumble mobile the we spot a likely chav charriot
with blacked out windows. A quick check reveals a SORN notice
attached to the vehicle so, curiosity aroused we put in a stop.

Out steps yon spotty youth complete with Burberry baseball cap and
blond girlfriend wearing next to nothing.
After a short conversation, during which he is warned a few times to
wind his neck in, it transpires he has just bought the vehicle from a
mate for probably a little more than it was worth, IE more than I
would have paid for a decent second hand car.

Anyhow as his attitude still stinks and we feverently believe he
should be taught the error of his ways

Kowtow to the police or expect to be harrased?

marc said:

Quoted message said:

Poodling about in the bumble mobile the we spot a likely chav
charriot with blacked out windows. A quick check reveals a SORN
notice attached to the vehicle so, curiosity aroused we put in a
stop. Out steps yon spotty youth complete with Burberry baseball cap and
blond girlfriend wearing next to nothing.
After a short conversation, during which he is warned a few times to
wind his neck in, it transpires he has just bought the vehicle from a
mate for probably a little more than it was worth, IE more than I
would have paid for a decent second hand car.

Anyhow as his attitude still stinks and we feverently believe he
should be taught the error of his ways

Kowtow to the police or expect to be harrased?

Watch 'Road Wars' on Sky and I suspect the sort of attitude often shown
there is what the OP is referring to....

Quoted message said:

...
Anyhow as his attitude still stinks and we feverently believe he
should be taught the error of his ways...

With your understanding of psychology, and of the how the "youth of
today" have little respect "for authority", what do you think is the
solution to harmony, and safety, on our streets?

Do you think that the subject of your story will come out of this with a
better understanding of his responsibilities, and with a better /attitude/?

Do you think that he and, and more importantly, society as a whole, will
benefit from his ban and fine?

--
Matt B

Quoted message said:

With your understanding of psychology, and of the how the "youth of
today" have little respect "for authority", what do you think is the
solution to harmony, and safety, on our streets?

Do you think that the subject of your story will come out of this with a
better understanding of his responsibilities, and with a better /attitude/?

Do you think that he and, and more importantly, society as a whole, will
benefit from his ban and fine?

Slightly OT - but...

I have a serious suggestion that I would like air; it involves the
setting up of a penal colony in the Falkland Islands - similar to
Australia or French Guyana from days of old.

Violent, reckless, anti-social or otherwise serious nuisance citizens
which demonstrate a clear and sustained propensity towards de-
stabilizing our society should quite simply have access to that
society removed.

Pack 'em on a ship to the Falklands. 15-25 years labour should give
them plenty of time to reflect on how society wasn't that bad after
all. For those it doesn't reform - at least it takes them out of the
equation for a very long time.

Regards,

Duncan

cupra said:

marc said:

Quoted message said:

Poodling about in the bumble mobile the we spot a likely chav
charriot with blacked out windows. A quick check reveals a SORN
notice attached to the vehicle so, curiosity aroused we put in a
stop. Out steps yon spotty youth complete with Burberry baseball cap and
blond girlfriend wearing next to nothing.
After a short conversation, during which he is warned a few times to
wind his neck in, it transpires he has just bought the vehicle from a
mate for probably a little more than it was worth, IE more than I
would have paid for a decent second hand car.

Anyhow as his attitude still stinks and we feverently believe he
should be taught the error of his ways

Kowtow to the police or expect to be harrased?

Watch 'Road Wars' on Sky and I suspect the sort of attitude often shown
there is what the OP is referring to....

I have, it's medieval. If your a lickspittle you're sent on your way, if
you don't kowtow you get nicked. There is no law that says " you must
respect a policeman" so to make up for it the police use other powers.

Duncan Smith said:

I have a serious suggestion that I would like air; it involves the
setting up of a penal colony in the Falkland Islands - similar to
Australia or French Guyana from days of old.

I don't want to get into a debate about the principle behind this
proposition (and hence won't express my views on it) but I do question
your choice of location...

Have you ever been to the Falklands? It strikes me as a spectacularly
unsuitable choice for such a scheme on a wide range of levels.

Might be a bit OT for a cycling newsgroup, too. I don't recall a lot
of opportunities for cycling there, although I'm sure the determined
could find some. It'd be a bit of a challenge to get a bike there,
too, as the transport arrangements arn't as flexible as most.

Cheers,
W.

marc said:

cupra said:

marc said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Poodling about in the bumble mobile the we spot a likely chav
> charriot with blacked out windows. A quick check reveals a SORN
> notice attached to the vehicle so, curiosity aroused we put in a
> stop. Out steps yon spotty youth complete with Burberry baseball cap and
> blond girlfriend wearing next to nothing.
> After a short conversation, during which he is warned a few times to
> wind his neck in, it transpires he has just bought the vehicle from a
> mate for probably a little more than it was worth, IE more than I
> would have paid for a decent second hand car.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Anyhow as his attitude still stinks and we feverently believe he
> should be taught the error of his ways
Kowtow to the police or expect to be harrased?

Quoted message said:

Watch 'Road Wars' on Sky and I suspect the sort of attitude often shown
there is what the OP is referring to....

I have, it's medieval. If your a lickspittle you're sent on your way, if
you don't kowtow you get nicked. There is no law that says " you must
respect a policeman" so to make up for it the police use other powers.

It isn't any more medieval than having respect for the law of the
land. Or do you believe that you are only guilty if caught (the 11th
commandment).
There are officers with attitude problems, but I'd like to believe
they are in the minority. There are a lot more people out there with
attitude problems. If they want to be treated as adults then they
should behave like adults. One can behave in a decent manner without
being a lickspittle and tugging ones forelock.

...d

David Martin said:

marc said:

cupra said:

marc wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:
>> Poodling about in the bumble mobile the we spot a likely chav
>> charriot with blacked out windows. A quick check reveals a SORN
>> notice attached to the vehicle so, curiosity aroused we put in a
>> stop. Out steps yon spotty youth complete with Burberry baseball cap and
>> blond girlfriend wearing next to nothing.
>> After a short conversation, during which he is warned a few times to
>> wind his neck in, it transpires he has just bought the vehicle from a
>> mate for probably a little more than it was worth, IE more than I
>> would have paid for a decent second hand car.
>> Anyhow as his attitude still stinks and we feverently believe he
>> should be taught the error of his ways
> Kowtow to the police or expect to be harrased?
Watch 'Road Wars' on Sky and I suspect the sort of attitude often shown
there is what the OP is referring to....

I have, it's medieval. If your a lickspittle you're sent on your way, if
you don't kowtow you get nicked. There is no law that says " you must
respect a policeman" so to make up for it the police use other powers.

It isn't any more medieval than having respect for the law of the
land. Or do you believe that you are only guilty if caught (the 11th
commandment).
There are officers with attitude problems, but I'd like to believe
they are in the minority. There are a lot more people out there with
attitude problems. If they want to be treated as adults then they
should behave like adults. One can behave in a decent manner without
being a lickspittle and tugging ones forelock.

#
How can you have repect for law officers that act as this the driver
was subjected to further disruption not because the police thought
anything more was wrong, not because he had committed an offence , but
because " his attitude" and the officers taught "the error of his ways".
Later it was found that he had committed an offence, but it was spite
that was the root of him being held there ( whilst waiting for a traffic
officer) not anything else. Put yourself in the same postion, you are
stopped for cycling on a road with a cycle path next to it, your
attitude is decided not to be correct by the officers ( you don't get to
decide if it's correct, they do that) and so you are further
inconvienced just to teach you the error of your ways. Would you like that?

In article said:

Slightly OT - but...

I have a serious suggestion that I would like air; it involves the
setting up of a penal colony in the Falkland Islands - similar to
Australia or French Guyana from days of old.

Violent, reckless, anti-social or otherwise serious nuisance citizens
which demonstrate a clear and sustained propensity towards de-
stabilizing our society should quite simply have access to that
society removed.

UK prison population ~80,000. Current Falklands Islands population ~3,100.
What proportion of the UK prison population do you think you can send to the
Falklands without telling the current inhabitants that we might have fought
a war for their right to be a British dependency in the past, but we're
going to completely change the nature of their home and they can leave if
they don't like it? What proportion of UK Prison Service employees do you
think will be happy with being transferred to the Falklands (or were you
thinking of simply dumping the prisoners there unsupervised)?

On 1 Oct,

Duncan Smith said:

Pack 'em on a ship to the Falklands. 15-25 years labour should give
them plenty of time to reflect on how society wasn't that bad after
all. For those it doesn't reform - at least it takes them out of the
equation for a very long time.

I doubt the upright citizens of the Falklands would agree. How about
somewhere like Rockall?

--
BD
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

marc said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyhow as his attitude still stinks and we feverently believe he
should be taught the error of his ways

Kowtow to the police or expect to be harrased?

Behaving reasonably does not mean kowtowing. Similarly standing up to
the police when they exceed their powers does not require one to be
obnoxious. Pulling over cars that appear to be being driven illegally
is not harrassment. If Sniper hadn't stopped him he'd still be roaring
round with his blacked out windows, no licence, invalid insurance, and
with the same eff-you attitude to pedestrians, cyclists and other
motorists that he displayed to the police.

The vehicle examiner had to make a judgement call: "If I let him drive
home will he do so sensibly and carefully, or will he go roaring off
in a childish display of emotion, risking innocent people's lives?" By
the sound of it it was an easy decision.

--
Dave...

dkahn400 said:

marc said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyhow as his attitude still stinks and we feverently believe he
should be taught the error of his ways

Kowtow to the police or expect to be harrased?

Behaving reasonably does not mean kowtowing. Similarly standing up to
the police when they exceed their powers does not require one to be
obnoxious. Pulling over cars that appear to be being driven illegally
is not harrassment.

At no time did I say it was, what followed later could well be seen as.
If Sniper hadn't stopped him he'd still be roaring

Quoted message said:

round with his blacked out windows, no licence, invalid insurance, and
with the same eff-you attitude to pedestrians, cyclists and other
motorists that he displayed to the police.

I have no problem with the intial stop because of the SORN

Quoted message said:

The vehicle examiner had to make a judgement call: "If I let him drive
home will he do so sensibly and carefully, or will he go roaring off
in a childish display of emotion, risking innocent people's lives?" By
the sound of it it was an easy decision.

I have no problem with the vehicle examiners decsion. However he was
called in to teach the driver a lesson in how to talk to the police, not
to for any other reason.

Quoted message said:

UK prison population ~80,000. Current Falklands Islands population ~3,100.
What proportion of the UK prison population do you think you can send to the
Falklands without telling the current inhabitants that we might have fought
a war for their right to be a British dependency in the past, but we're
going to completely change the nature of their home and they can leave if
they don't like it? What proportion of UK Prison Service employees do you
think will be happy with being transferred to the Falklands (or were you
thinking of simply dumping the prisoners there unsupervised)?

I doubt the current population would be able to remain in any
meaningful way. A shame, but come on.. 3,100 people, more people than
that have up-rooted to build motorways in the past.

The recent war clouds the issue emotionally. I don't want to get into
a debate about that, but there have been other possible motives banded
about which have some credibility.

Gee, I don't know. What was the inmate/guard ratio in French Guiana -
maybe we could match that for starters. The Army are already out
there right? Perhaps they could oversee in-mates build their own
societies.

I care more about not being mugged at knife-point for the contents of
my wallet, or having my partner able to walk home from work without
being raped - than I do for the wellbeing of the perpetrators of this
counter-culture. Let them exist in a society made up of people like
themselves. They can beat, mug, rape and murder each other to their
heart's contents - so long as they're not doing it here to people like
you and me, thats a big plus.

Have you checked to see how much of your council tax goes to the
Police, and how much of that is spent trying to mould repeat offenders
into society. Why put up with it all?

Duncan Smith said:

I have a serious suggestion that I would like air; it involves the
setting up of a penal colony in the Falkland Islands

Personally I think the Falklands are too good for them, send them to
Rockall. :-)
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pack 'em on a ship to the Falklands. 15-25 years labour should give
them plenty of time to reflect on how society wasn't that bad after
all. For those it doesn't reform - at least it takes them out of the
equation for a very long time.

I doubt the upright citizens of the Falklands would agree. How about
somewhere like Rockall?

Could work. Bit close though...

marc said:

dkahn400 said:

marc said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Anyhow as his attitude still stinks and we feverently believe he
> should be taught the error of his ways
Kowtow to the police or expect to be harrased?

Quoted message said:

Behaving reasonably does not mean kowtowing. Similarly standing up to
the police when they exceed their powers does not require one to be
obnoxious. Pulling over cars that appear to be being driven illegally
is not harrassment.

At no time did I say it was, what followed later could well be seen as.
If Sniper hadn't stopped him he'd still be roaring

Quoted message said:

round with his blacked out windows, no licence, invalid insurance, and
with the same eff-you attitude to pedestrians, cyclists and other
motorists that he displayed to the police.

I have no problem with the intial stop because of the SORN

Quoted message said:

The vehicle examiner had to make a judgement call: "If I let him drive
home will he do so sensibly and carefully, or will he go roaring off
in a childish display of emotion, risking innocent people's lives?" By
the sound of it it was an easy decision.

I have no problem with the vehicle examiners decsion. However he was
called in to teach the driver a lesson in how to talk to the police, not
to for any other reason.

To be fair we had a pretty good idea it was going to fail before we
called the examiner and would have called him to check the safety of
the screen in any case and the final outcome would have been exactly
the same.. You don't seriously believe we would stop a vehicle and
not check the driver's insurance and driving credentials do you?

Sniper8052

Quoted message said:

marc said:

dkahn400 said:

On Oct 1, 10:16 am, marc <[email hidden]> wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:
>> Anyhow as his attitude still stinks and we feverently believe he
>> should be taught the error of his ways
> Kowtow to the police or expect to be harrased?
Behaving reasonably does not mean kowtowing. Similarly standing up to
the police when they exceed their powers does not require one to be
obnoxious. Pulling over cars that appear to be being driven illegally
is not harrassment.

At no time did I say it was, what followed later could well be seen as.
If Sniper hadn't stopped him he'd still be roaring

Quoted message said:

round with his blacked out windows, no licence, invalid insurance, and
with the same eff-you attitude to pedestrians, cyclists and other
motorists that he displayed to the police.

I have no problem with the intial stop because of the SORN

Quoted message said:

The vehicle examiner had to make a judgement call: "If I let him drive
home will he do so sensibly and carefully, or will he go roaring off
in a childish display of emotion, risking innocent people's lives?" By
the sound of it it was an easy decision.

I have no problem with the vehicle examiners decsion. However he was
called in to teach the driver a lesson in how to talk to the police, not
to for any other reason.

To be fair we had a pretty good idea it was going to fail before we
called the examiner and would have called him to check the safety of
the screen in any case and the final outcome would have been exactly
the same.. You don't seriously believe we would stop a vehicle and
not check the driver's insurance and driving credentials do you?

Not relevant. You stated your reasons for calling in the examiner, those
reasons were that you believed the driver needed teaching a lesson.

In 1984 lots of miners needed teaching lessons.

It's a very slippery slope from one to the other.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have a serious suggestion that I would like air; it involves the
setting up of a penal colony in the Falkland Islands - similar to
Australia or French Guyana from days of old.

Violent, reckless, anti-social or otherwise serious nuisance citizens
which demonstrate a clear and sustained propensity towards de-
stabilizing our society should quite simply have access to that
society removed.

Pack 'em on a ship to the Falklands. 15-25 years labour should give
them plenty of time to reflect on how society wasn't that bad after
all. For those it doesn't reform - at least it takes them out of the
equation for a very long time.

Why not use Australia again - not that it worked last time ;-)

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

marc said:

Quoted message said:

Poodling about in the bumble mobile the we spot a likely chav charriot
with blacked out windows. A quick check reveals a SORN notice
attached to the vehicle so, curiosity aroused we put in a stop.

Out steps yon spotty youth complete with Burberry baseball cap and
blond girlfriend wearing next to nothing.
After a short conversation, during which he is warned a few times to
wind his neck in, it transpires he has just bought the vehicle from a
mate for probably a little more than it was worth, IE more than I
would have paid for a decent second hand car.

Anyhow as his attitude still stinks and we feverently believe he
should be taught the error of his ways

Kowtow to the police or expect to be harrased?

I should think rather that it is lack of respect for other members of
society in general that was displayed by the young gentleman. He clearly
was not operating at either the higher-ethical-principle or the
law-and-order level of moral reasoning, but at the pain-and-pleasure level.
The proper method of remedying this is to treat the misbehaviour at that
level, while giving a clear indication that progress to an higher level is
possible (and desired). The actions of the constables did exactly that.

In the old days a clip round the ear'ole would have been part of the
treatment. We expect the police to have and display judgement and
discretion; both were correctly applied in this case.