Clydesdale Class

Prisoner at War said:

So I guess I've always been in the Clydesdale class of runners:
heavy. Even at 175-lbs., my lightest weight ever in the Army, I was a
heavyweight. Yet I ran a ~6-minute mile back then. And today, at
~230-lbs. with a herniated disc I can still run a ~7-minute mile!

Any weightlifters around here who like to run? Any runners around
here who like to lift? I don't mean lil' thirty-pound dumbbells,
either, and I don't mean lil' ten minute jogs on the treadmill.

I used to lift. Wasn't much good at it, but made an honest effort. I took
up running and was much better at it, so eventually that's what I focused
on.

Quoted message said:

Even back in college, it was pulling teeth trying to get my spotters
to run in Central Park after a good lift. Jogging with the Hunter
track team on one of their easy recovery runs, it took most of what I
had just to keep up with them -- at the tail end. Does the two have
to be so contradictory, so seemingly mutually exclusive?? I've always

Strength and endurance generally don't go together ... people who are good
at one tend to be bad at the other largely due to differing amounts of
fast/slow twitch muscle.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

It'd be nice to see a presentation where the two are integrated, as
they seem to be for me. I wonder if anyone's done some kind of
triathlon which involves short sprinting, long-distance running, and
the traditional weightlifting movements??

That sounds like a pretty good description of training for an 800m race. A
typical program would include a good mileage base, some fast track work (200m
reps) and some weight training.

Most top 800m runners have both excellent speed and endurance -- unlike longer
distances, it's not uncommon to go out at a very fast pace. They have to be
able to run a very fast opening lap, and then hold on for another one.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Elflord said:

Strength and endurance generally don't go together ... people who are good
at one tend to be bad at the other largely due to differing amounts of
fast/slow twitch muscle.

This has to be one of the dumbest things you ever wrote. Smoking some
ganja this morning?

Prisoner at War said:

So I guess I've always been in the Clydesdale class of runners:
heavy. Even at 175-lbs., my lightest weight ever in the Army, I was a
heavyweight. Yet I ran a ~6-minute mile back then. And today, at
~230-lbs. with a herniated disc I can still run a ~7-minute mile!

Any weightlifters around here who like to run? Any runners around
here who like to lift? I don't mean lil' thirty-pound dumbbells,
either, and I don't mean lil' ten minute jogs on the treadmill.

I'm 5'10, 206 lbs. and run 2-3 times a week with my wife who's a
distance runner. I lift, she doesn't.

Quoted message said:

Even back in college, it was pulling teeth trying to get my spotters
to run in Central Park after a good lift. Jogging with the Hunter
track team on one of their easy recovery runs, it took most of what I
had just to keep up with them -- at the tail end. Does the two have
to be so contradictory, so seemingly mutually exclusive?? I've always
imagined strength and endurance to be synonyms, and I still can't get
away from that notion.

I'm not training for anything, not looking to compete in anything. I
just want to express my genes and my will, to run and lift and be
strong and fast and last as long as possible, given those genes and
this will. But reading the running magazines and the muscle mags, it
would seem like people do only one or the other seriously. A summer
issue of "Runner's World" claimed some set of calisthenics that
negates the need for weight training -- ! Whereas the muscle
magazines routinely treat running as mere polish, an after-thought.

It'd be nice to see a presentation where the two are integrated, as
they seem to be for me. I wonder if anyone's done some kind of
triathlon which involves short sprinting, long-distance running, and
the traditional weightlifting movements??

I run about a 9-10 minute mile depending on the distance. At my size,
weight, and build, I'm not built for running, but I do it because it
gives me a fantastic cardio and fat-burning workout. A 5-mile run for
me is like a half-marathon for your average skinny distance runner. My
wife and I run in local races - about 1 a month, generally 5k or 10k
(along with a 7mile trail run we do every spring). I run to keep in
shape, I run in races so I don't get bored with running.

I alternate my running days with my lifting days and find that neither
one has negatively affected the other (except for the occasional
soreness from a heavy squat day). In fact, lifting weights has
actually improved my running.

Joe

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 06:14:20 -0700, Prisoner at War wrote:

I lift and run - while my running progress has been substantial, that was
only because I only recently started running more seriously. On the
other hand, lifting has stalled totally as far as I can see. I'd like to
do both as much as possible, of course.

Quoted message said:

It'd be nice to see a presentation where the two are integrated, as
they seem to be for me. I wonder if anyone's done some kind of
triathlon which involves short sprinting, long-distance running, and
the traditional weightlifting movements??

Maybe you want decathlon. The guys doing it are usually bulkier
than runners, yet lighter than field specialists.

Christos Dimitrakakis said:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 06:14:20 -0700, Prisoner at War wrote:

I lift and run - while my running progress has been substantial, that was
only because I only recently started running more seriously. On the
other hand, lifting has stalled totally as far as I can see. I'd like to
do both as much as possible, of course.

Quoted message said:

It'd be nice to see a presentation where the two are integrated, as
they seem to be for me. I wonder if anyone's done some kind of
triathlon which involves short sprinting, long-distance running, and
the traditional weightlifting movements??

Maybe you want decathlon. The guys doing it are usually bulkier
than runners, yet lighter than field specialists.

Decalthlon is very much strength sport, but also demands some agility. So they
are a bit smaller than the throwers but as big or bigger than hurdlers, 400m
runners, pole vaulters, and high jumpers.

The only endurance event involved is the 1500m, and it is by far the weakest event of
all the competitors. Most decathletes would have trouble bringing home a trophy in a
small town 5k.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Prisoner at War said:

So I guess I've always been in the Clydesdale class of runners:
heavy. Even at 175-lbs., my lightest weight ever in the Army, I was a
heavyweight. Yet I ran a ~6-minute mile back then. And today, at
~230-lbs. with a herniated disc I can still run a ~7-minute mile!

Any weightlifters around here who like to run? Any runners around
here who like to lift? I don't mean lil' thirty-pound dumbbells,
either, and I don't mean lil' ten minute jogs on the treadmill.

Even back in college, it was pulling teeth trying to get my spotters
to run in Central Park after a good lift. Jogging with the Hunter
track team on one of their easy recovery runs, it took most of what I
had just to keep up with them -- at the tail end. Does the two have
to be so contradictory, so seemingly mutually exclusive?? I've always
imagined strength and endurance to be synonyms, and I still can't get
away from that notion.

I'm not training for anything, not looking to compete in anything. I
just want to express my genes and my will, to run and lift and be
strong and fast and last as long as possible, given those genes and
this will. But reading the running magazines and the muscle mags, it
would seem like people do only one or the other seriously. A summer
issue of "Runner's World" claimed some set of calisthenics that
negates the need for weight training -- ! Whereas the muscle
magazines routinely treat running as mere polish, an after-thought.

It'd be nice to see a presentation where the two are integrated, as
they seem to be for me. I wonder if anyone's done some kind of
triathlon which involves short sprinting, long-distance running, and
the traditional weightlifting movements??

i am trying to add running to my routine.
Any suggestions?

Shava_X said:

i am trying to add running to my routine.
Any suggestions?

Start by running to the gym, or to the grocery store, or something
like that...kinda like how, for adding upper-body strength, one should
force oneself to do push-ups or chin-ups every time one goes to the
kitchen...just incorporate light jogging into daily life, like running
to the store, or to your car parked down the block, or with your dog,
or to the bus stop or whatever...the key is to "own" it, incorporate
it into one's worldview, instead of thinking of it as something
outside oneself and one's interests, like a chore or something
artificially grafted onto one's life....

Elflord said:

I used to lift. Wasn't much good at it, but made an honest effort. I took
up running and was much better at it, so eventually that's what I focused
on.

See, that's what I don't get. I'm not "good" at running, either --
but most runners ain't really good at it. Not good enough to compete
seriously, even as amateurs, I don't think. Neither are most lifters
any "good" at lifting: I'm only doing like 315-lbs. on the bench press
right now, which only puts me into the intermediate category (I
deadlift only 295, which is nothing for that exercise). But I run and
I lift because it's fun to feel my body exerting itself. So how come
most people seem to only prefer one kind of exertion to another? I
mean, I don't think it feels that different. It's like oral sex and
vaginal sex -- about the same, really....

Quoted message said:

Strength and endurance generally don't go together ... people who are good
at one tend to be bad at the other largely due to differing amounts of
fast/slow twitch muscle.

You know, I read somewhere else that the slow/fast-twitch distinction
wasn't totally grounded in biological reality...I forget where I read
this, and what the point of that point was....

I understand "specificity of training," and I understand talent and
genetics, but I'm talking here simply about enjoyment of physical
movement and exertion...I mean, there are plenty of high school
athletes who wrestle and play football and basketball and run track
and field...this would suggest that strength sports and endurance
sports are equally fun....

Quoted message said:

That sounds like a pretty good description of training for an 800m race. A
typical program would include a good mileage base, some fast track work (200m
reps) and some weight training.

Well, I was hoping for an event where they do sprints (100-yd. dash,
800m race), then a long-distance run (like x-country, 3-5 miles [I
know, not too long a distance]), and do the usual powerlifting
movements, and maybe even wrestle and arm-wrestle and somehow points
are tallied....

Quoted message said:

Most top 800m runners have both excellent speed and endurance -- unlike longer
distances, it's not uncommon to go out at a very fast pace. They have to be
able to run a very fast opening lap, and then hold on for another one.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Prisoner at War said:

Elflord said:

I used to lift. Wasn't much good at it, but made an honest effort. I took
up running and was much better at it, so eventually that's what I focused
on.

See, that's what I don't get. I'm not "good" at running, either --
but most runners ain't really good at it. Not good enough to compete

Eventually one gets to the point where there is a lot to be gained from
specialisation. It's pretty hard to run well on less than 50 miles a week,
and it's pretty hard to lift well on more than that.

Quoted message said:

seriously, even as amateurs, I don't think. Neither are most lifters
any "good" at lifting: I'm only doing like 315-lbs. on the bench press
right now, which only puts me into the intermediate category (I
deadlift only 295, which is nothing for that exercise). But I run and

That's a pretty solid bench, work on your deadlift (-;

Quoted message said:

You know, I read somewhere else that the slow/fast-twitch distinction
wasn't totally grounded in biological reality...I forget where I read
this, and what the point of that point was....

There's a clear difference between distance guys and sprinters, though distance
guys are not necessarily all slow twitch (some are but not all).

Quoted message said:

I understand "specificity of training," and I understand talent and
genetics, but I'm talking here simply about enjoyment of physical
movement and exertion...

Improvement is a big motivator. And specialising facilitates that.

Quoted message said:

Well, I was hoping for an event where they do sprints (100-yd. dash,
800m race), then a long-distance run (like x-country, 3-5 miles [I
know, not too long a distance]), and do the usual powerlifting
movements, and maybe even wrestle and arm-wrestle and somehow points
are tallied....

Easier to measure it with one event (like the 800m ;-)

That's a moderately serious comment -- it is really tricky to work out how to
weigh the events in these multi-event sports. For example, in Decalthlon, Bryan
Clay was able to win with a >5:00 1500m -- that's a slower pace than the top
female marathoners race pace.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Quoted message said:

I'm 5'10, 206 lbs. and run 2-3 times a week with my wife who's a
distance runner. I lift, she doesn't.

That's so cool, being able to work out with your girl. Too bad she
doesn't lift, though.

Quoted message said:

I run about a 9-10 minute mile depending on the distance. At my size,
weight, and build, I'm not built for running, but I do it because it
gives me a fantastic cardio and fat-burning workout.

Eh?? Are you sure you take up to ten minutes to do a mile??? 'Cause
I'm 230-lbs. and I can run a ~7-minute mile (7:20, 7:30, something
like that), with a herniated disc, too!

I wonder what are normal performance parameters for our Clydesdale
class -- adjusting for age, of course (I'm 35).

I've just realized that I'm not really built for running, either --
hence this Clydesdale post -- but I run because of the fun factor, the
fantastic cardio effects you mention. Oddly enough, though, I was
once the second-fastest kid in primary school, out of some 500+ kids.

Quoted message said:

A 5-mile run for
me is like a half-marathon for your average skinny distance runner.

About a quarter-marathon for me, I think. I once ran 15 miles on the
treadmill in 2:45.

Quoted message said:

My
wife and I run in local races - about 1 a month, generally 5k or 10k
(along with a 7mile trail run we do every spring). I run to keep in
shape, I run in races so I don't get bored with running.

That's so interesting...lots of runners and lifters compete, with no
hope of winning or even placing respectably, just to keep themselves
motivated...but I don't have that need because my motivation comes
from the good vibes I get working out! Yes, there are days when I
don't feel like working out, like last night -- but I just force
myself to go and work out anyway, 100% sure that I will enjoy it all
(because 99% of the time I force myself to go I wind up having a good
workout after all). So it's about the good feeling for me...like
sex. I wouldn't need to somehow "compete" in order to stay interested
in sex, and likewise I don't need to race or compete in a lifting
event in order to not be bored otherwise.

Quoted message said:

I alternate my running days with my lifting days and find that neither
one has negatively affected the other (except for the occasional
soreness from a heavy squat day). In fact, lifting weights has
actually improved my running.

I should think so! But lifters are under the impression that running
more than a few minutes' warmup robs them of strength and energy.

I used to work out with a wide variety of folks in the college gym (I
don't know why people hate school so much; it's so much fun with all
the different people about!), but not one of them were into serious
weightlifting and serious running, both. I just find that very
strange. By serious I mean like benching 315-lbs. (intermediate
level) and logging at least twenty-five miles a week (probably
intermediate level, too).

Quoted message said:

Joe

Prisoner at War said:

Eh?? Are you sure you take up to ten minutes to do a mile??? 'Cause
I'm 230-lbs. and I can run a ~7-minute mile (7:20, 7:30, something
like that), with a herniated disc, too!

Big difference between pace for a typical training run and pace for a single
all-out mile. I've run a mile in as fast as 4:40, but seldom go under 7 for
anything besides interval work and races.

Likewise, you say below that your pace for 15 miles is a little over 10mpm.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I used to work out with a wide variety of folks in the college gym (I
don't know why people hate school so much; it's so much fun with all
the different people about!), but not one of them were into serious
weightlifting and serious running, both. I just find that very
strange. By serious I mean like benching 315-lbs. (intermediate
level) and logging at least twenty-five miles a week (probably
intermediate level, too).

Well that's the thing -- they would be faster at 35 miles a week, and
considerably faster if they could build to around 70 miles per week. But
that would gt in the way of their lifting regimens.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Prisoner at War said:

Shava_X said:

i am trying to add running to my routine.
Any suggestions?

Start by running to the gym, or to the grocery store, or something
like that...kinda like how, for adding upper-body strength, one should
force oneself to do push-ups or chin-ups every time one goes to the
kitchen...just incorporate light jogging into daily life, like running
to the store, or to your car parked down the block, or with your dog,
or to the bus stop or whatever...the key is to "own" it, incorporate
it into one's worldview, instead of thinking of it as something
outside oneself and one's interests, like a chore or something
artificially grafted onto one's life....

i haven't heard of that approach being used for cardio-endurance /
running before. But it has worked reasonably well for push-ups and
pull-ups, so i will look into it and see what i can do with it.
Thanks.

Shava_X said:

Prisoner at War said:

On Sep 26, 11:39 am, Shava_X <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

i am trying to add running to my routine.
Any suggestions?

Quoted message said:

Start by running to the gym, or to the grocery store, or something
like that...kinda like how, for adding upper-body strength, one should
force oneself to do push-ups or chin-ups every time one goes to the
kitchen...just incorporate light jogging into daily life, like running
to the store, or to your car parked down the block, or with your dog,
or to the bus stop or whatever...the key is to "own" it, incorporate
it into one's worldview, instead of thinking of it as something
outside oneself and one's interests, like a chore or something
artificially grafted onto one's life....

i haven't heard of that approach being used for cardio-endurance /
running before. But it has worked reasonably well for push-ups and
pull-ups, so i will look into it and see what i can do with it.
Thanks. - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

..

On Sep 26, 12:16 pm, Prisoner at War <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm 5'10, 206 lbs. and run 2-3 times a week with my wife who's a
distance runner. I lift, she doesn't.

That's so cool, being able to work out with your girl. Too bad she
doesn't lift, though.

Quoted message said:

I run about a 9-10 minute mile depending on the distance. At my size,
weight, and build, I'm not built for running, but I do it because it
gives me a fantastic cardio and fat-burning workout.

Eh?? Are you sure you take up to ten minutes to do a mile??? 'Cause
I'm 230-lbs. and I can run a ~7-minute mile (7:20, 7:30, something
like that), with a herniated disc, too!

If I'm doing a long run. My race pace is a bit faster. When I was in
the Army, I could do 2 miles in 13:52 on the Army PFT.

Quoted message said:

I wonder what are normal performance parameters for our Clydesdale
class -- adjusting for age, of course (I'm 35).

I'm 46, and amazed at the speeds of some of the guys in my age group.

Quoted message said:

I've just realized that I'm not really built for running, either --
hence this Clydesdale post -- but I run because of the fun factor, the
fantastic cardio effects you mention. Oddly enough, though, I was
once the second-fastest kid in primary school, out of some 500+ kids.

Quoted message said:

A 5-mile run for
me is like a half-marathon for your average skinny distance runner.

About a quarter-marathon for me, I think. I once ran 15 miles on the
treadmill in 2:45.

Quoted message said:

My
wife and I run in local races - about 1 a month, generally 5k or 10k
(along with a 7mile trail run we do every spring). I run to keep in
shape, I run in races so I don't get bored with running.

That's so interesting...lots of runners and lifters compete, with no
hope of winning or even placing respectably, just to keep themselves
motivated...

I wouldn't go that far. I don't race to "win" but I do try to place
respectably, my goal is usually to beat my time from last year's race.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I alternate my running days with my lifting days and find that neither
one has negatively affected the other (except for the occasional
soreness from a heavy squat day). In fact, lifting weights has
actually improved my running.

I should think so! But lifters are under the impression that running
more than a few minutes' warmup robs them of strength and energy.

I used to work out with a wide variety of folks in the college gym (I
don't know why people hate school so much; it's so much fun with all
the different people about!), but not one of them were into serious
weightlifting and serious running, both. I just find that very
strange. By serious I mean like benching 315-lbs. (intermediate
level) and logging at least twenty-five miles a week (probably
intermediate level, too).

Quoted message said:

Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

On Sep 26, 12:16 pm, Prisoner at War <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Sep 25, 10:45 am, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm 5'10, 206 lbs. and run 2-3 times a week with my wife who's a
distance runner. I lift, she doesn't.

Quoted message said:

That's so cool, being able to work out with your girl. Too bad she
doesn't lift, though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I run about a 9-10 minute mile depending on the distance. At my size,
weight, and build, I'm not built for running, but I do it because it
gives me a fantastic cardio and fat-burning workout.

Quoted message said:

Eh?? Are you sure you take up to ten minutes to do a mile??? 'Cause
I'm 230-lbs. and I can run a ~7-minute mile (7:20, 7:30, something
like that), with a herniated disc, too!

If I'm doing a long run. My race pace is a bit faster. When I was in
the Army, I could do 2 miles in 13:52 on the Army PFT.

Quoted message said:

I wonder what are normal performance parameters for our Clydesdale
class -- adjusting for age, of course (I'm 35).

I'm 46, and amazed at the speeds of some of the guys in my age group.

When I was in my late 30s I naively anticipated the day when I could
get into the 40-45 age group. I guess I had never bothered to look at
their times. I suppose the lesson is that if a guy is still running
at 44, it's pretty likely he takes it pretty seriously. I wonder if
it gets better at 50-55? : )

brianj

Elflord said:

Eventually one gets to the point where there is a lot to be gained from
specialisation. It's pretty hard to run well on less than 50 miles a week,
and it's pretty hard to lift well on more than that.

Yes, I agree with the Specificity of Training principle now.

However, most of us are not so much athletes as we are merely
athletic. And I was just wondering whether there's anyone like me who
enjoys both "real" running and "real" lifting -- not as athletes per
se, amateur, pro, or elite; but as athletic people who enjoy the
physical pleasure of physical movement and exertion.

Quoted message said:

That's a pretty solid bench, work on your deadlift (-;

Yeah, weird how much deadlift lags behind my bench when apparently
one's supposed to deadlift a heck of a lot more than one benches.

I never used to think of weightlifitng as having an adverse effect on
my running, but increased weight aside, I wonder if maybe there's some
kind of anatomical or even neurological factor involved which might
explain why folks tend to either lift or run...I mean, when I run, I
feel like a runner, and when I lift I feel like a lifter, and the two
modes of being seem very different...I guess I'm reveling in that
right now, but maybe that explains how come people tend to fall into
one or the other category...I think a certain frame of mind is
associated with each type of activity...I don't think they're mutually
exclusive yet -- at least not at this "athletic" level of performance
I'm talking about....

Quoted message said:

There's a clear difference between distance guys and sprinters, though distance
guys are not necessarily all slow twitch (some are but not all).

Yes, there is definitely a difference. Well, I'll have to look it up
and read that comment in its context...but if true, what would the
implications be, that there's not much distinction between slow-twitch
and fast-twitch fibers? Or was the comment that they can convert one
to the other or something...sigh...I'll have to look it up...hate it
when I forget things...hmmm, I wonder if running or lifting helps with
memory....

Quoted message said:

Improvement is a big motivator. And specialising facilitates that.

Indeed, we enjoy improvement. But you know, even if I don't improve
-- after all, there is a genetic ceiling against which we will all
bump, not to mention the increased-cost-for-decreased-gains phenomenon
as we approach that ceiling -- I would keep lifting and running. I
think I would only give them up when I get really old, like sixty I
guess, 'cause then I'd be just skin and bones and so would just take
it easy playing golf or something.

Quoted message said:

Easier to measure it with one event (like the 800m ;-)

That's a moderately serious comment -- it is really tricky to work out how to
weigh the events in these multi-event sports. For example, in Decalthlon, Bryan
Clay was able to win with a >5:00 1500m -- that's a slower pace than the top
female marathoners race pace.

Oh sure, you're right -- but heck, I'm sure it's possible: after all,
consider that an "A+" in art class counts toward a GPA the same as an
"A+" in calculus. Right now, I imagine that some events would count
more than others -- the bodybuilding component, for example, would
count least of all, though I think I would have the running and
lifting components be equal, more or less.

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Quoted message said:

If I'm doing a long run. My race pace is a bit faster. When I was in
the Army, I could do 2 miles in 13:52 on the Army PFT.

Yeah, that's about my time, too, back then! I was anywhere from
~180-195 pounds, then, at age 21; you?

Can you believe that the Marines have substituted the sit-up with ab
crunches, just like the Air Force, while the Army hasn't?? I
basically got my bad back from the Army, from [censored] like sit-ups and
running on poor shoes (I was ignorant about these matters then) and
running in full combat gear.

That's where I got my notion of strength, in the Army: you punish it
and still come out on top. Now I see that I'm supposed to go easy on
my body, except during very limited times of great exertion...you see,
I didn't realize that the true purpose of Army P.T. wasn't about
building strength and endurance as much as inuring one's body and mind
to physical duress! So I mistook one for the other, and took it as a
sign of strength how much punishment I could endure instead of how
much I can actually lift or how fast I can actually run....

Quoted message said:

I'm 46, and amazed at the speeds of some of the guys in my age group.

I assume that they're in the same weight class, too? What are their
times? I'm not competitor at all, but I'm just curious what the
statistical bell curve might be, considering weight, sex, and age.

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't go that far. I don't race to "win" but I do try to place
respectably, my goal is usually to beat my time from last year's race.

Yes, that's true, beating oneself. Funny I'd forgotten about that!
That's about as competitive as I get, usually.

Elflord said:

Big difference between pace for a typical training run and pace for a single
all-out mile.

Indeed. I was referring to the latter, which is what I thought was
SOP when speaking of one's best times.

Quoted message said:

I've run a mile in as fast as 4:40, but seldom go under 7 for
anything besides interval work and races.

Wow, a 4:40 mile...do you think at 35, with a herniated disc, I can
improve my all-out mile to six minutes or even five???

Quoted message said:

Likewise, you say below that your pace for 15 miles is a little over 10mpm.

Yeah, isn't that weird?? But that's what the treadmill said! Of
course, treadmills are easier, and over such a distance maybe it all
adds up to an easier run than would normally be the case on even the
best track.

Quoted message said:

Well that's the thing -- they would be faster at 35 miles a week, and
considerably faster if they could build to around 70 miles per week. But
that would gt in the way of their lifting regimens.

But would it, necessarily?? That's what I'm also wondering...what
exactly happens, biologically? I mean, heck, just eat more, I guess,
or take more rest, I dunno...seems like quite the Rubick's Cube
puzzle...anyway, so far it's working out for me, I think, though with
my running and lifting stats I'm not going to give anyone who actually
competes any competition....

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
--
Elflord

On Sep 25, 6:17 pm, Christos Dimitrakakis <oleth...@olethros-

desktop.info said:

I lift and run - while my running progress has been substantial, that was
only because I only recently started running more seriously. On the
other hand, lifting has stalled totally as far as I can see. I'd like to
do both as much as possible, of course.

Aha -- I had stalled on my lifts, too, earlier this year. Then I took
the concept of over-training seriously and gave myself lots of rest
(lots compared to my early "hard-core" way of thinking, that is). Now
I'm benching 315-lbs. -- and seem about to plateau all over again!

What do you suppose is causing you to stall on the weights?

I'm getting better with running, too...I seem to notice improvements
with every other run (which may simply be an indication of how "badly"
I was running before)...what's funny is that I'm not at all looking to
make progress with my runs...they're strictly for pleasure...I don't
clock myself or measure the distance, but I do know that going the
same nine loops around the track has me feeling less and less tired
afterwards, and that I'm able to speed up at will more and more
without crashing and burning afterwards....

Now if only I can stop eating pizza every week and [censored], I would lose
some weight!

Quoted message said:

Maybe you want decathlon. The guys doing it are usually bulkier
than runners, yet lighter than field specialists.

I enjoy watching it, but no, what I have in mind is actual track and
field events with powerlifting events -- maybe even a bodybuilding
pony show, too -- and it all gets tallied into points to determine the
overall winner. There would be winners for each individual event,
then a winner for each of the three components of running,
powerlifting, and bodybuilding (the strictly good looks dep't.), and
then an overall winner based on total points amassed.

Sounds like fun?