Clydesdale Class

"brianj" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

When I was in my late 30s I naively anticipated the day when I could
get into the 40-45 age group. I guess I had never bothered to look at
their times. I suppose the lesson is that if a guy is still running
at 44, it's pretty likely he takes it pretty seriously. I wonder if
it gets better at 50-55? : )

Don't count on it in a big city...I have often found that the 50+ runners,
when age-adjusted, are the strongest runners in the race. There are plenty
of average runners in that group, but it seems that a disporportionate
number of top runners are still active.

At my last race (400 runners), at age 55, only two 40-44 year olds beat me.
Everyone else 40+ was wayy back...

Most of the time, I do *not* take 1st in my age group. The prior race, a
former 28:xx 10k guy (Gary Tuttle, age 56) aced me out of an award...

-- Dan

On Sep 27, 12:08 pm, Prisoner at War <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If I'm doing a long run. My race pace is a bit faster. When I was in
the Army, I could do 2 miles in 13:52 on the Army PFT.

Yeah, that's about my time, too, back then! I was anywhere from
~180-195 pounds, then, at age 21; you?

I was 36, weighed about 180.

Quoted message said:

Can you believe that the Marines have substituted the sit-up with ab
crunches, just like the Air Force, while the Army hasn't?? I
basically got my bad back from the Army, from [censored] like sit-ups and
running on poor shoes (I was ignorant about these matters then) and
running in full combat gear.

I wrote a proposal and sent it to TRADOC in the mid 90s to change the
APFT. One of my recommendations was to replace the sit-up with the
crunch. Didn't get anywhere.

At least the Air Force is doing pull ups and situps like the Marines
do on their APFT. I remember when the Air Force's PFT consisted of
pedaling a stationary bike for time.

Quoted message said:

That's where I got my notion of strength, in the Army: you punish it
and still come out on top. Now I see that I'm supposed to go easy on
my body, except during very limited times of great exertion...you see,
I didn't realize that the true purpose of Army P.T. wasn't about
building strength and endurance as much as inuring one's body and mind
to physical duress! So I mistook one for the other, and took it as a
sign of strength how much punishment I could endure instead of how
much I can actually lift or how fast I can actually run....

Quoted message said:

I'm 46, and amazed at the speeds of some of the guys in my age group.

I assume that they're in the same weight class, too? What are their
times? I'm not competitor at all, but I'm just curious what the
statistical bell curve might be, considering weight, sex, and age.

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't go that far. I don't race to "win" but I do try to place
respectably, my goal is usually to beat my time from last year's race.

Yes, that's true, beating oneself. Funny I'd forgotten about that!
That's about as competitive as I get, usually.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

I wrote a proposal and sent it to TRADOC in the mid 90s to change the
APFT. One of my recommendations was to replace the sit-up with the
crunch. Didn't get anywhere.

At one time, the APFT consisted of five events: pushup, sit-up, dodge,
run, and jump, overhead ladder, and the 2-mile run. Before that, they
had a grenade throw instead of the overhead ladder. And somewhere in
the mix, there was a crab walk, but I don't recall what it replaced or
what replaced it. And at one time, non-combat troops had only a
one-mile run. But pushups and situps were always part of the test,
going back to when I enlisted in 61.

I retired in May of 83, and my memory is rusty about some of the details.

--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

Michelle Steiner said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

I wrote a proposal and sent it to TRADOC in the mid 90s to change the
APFT. One of my recommendations was to replace the sit-up with the
crunch. Didn't get anywhere.

At one time, the APFT consisted of five events: pushup, sit-up, dodge,
run, and jump, overhead ladder, and the 2-mile run. Before that, they
had a grenade throw instead of the overhead ladder. And somewhere in
the mix, there was a crab walk, but I don't recall what it replaced or
what replaced it. And at one time, non-combat troops had only a
one-mile run. But pushups and situps were always part of the test,
going back to when I enlisted in 61.

I retired in May of 83, and my memory is rusty about some of the details.

--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

On Sep 27, 7:50 pm, [email hidden] wrote:
[...]

Quoted message said:

At least the Air Force is doing pull ups and situps like the Marines
do on their APFT. I remember when the Air Force's PFT consisted of
pedaling a stationary bike for time.

[...]

That beats my one Navy PFT where since it was raining they planned on
us running inside the gym rather than face a few drops. We get to the
gym and there are volleyball nets set up. Rather than take those nets
down, they chose to have us run in place for time. D'OH!

The guys in the back simply stood flat-footed and moved their arms
around.

That's not the best though, imo. This one lieutenant did 115 pushups,
however after about 20 they were the crappiest, knees-on-the-floor,
back-arched pushups you'd care to see. Laughable. Many of the enlisted
guys began razzing the j.g. who was recording his numbers.

--
Curt

Richard @ Tahoe said:

I'm running the Lake Tahoe Marathon (my "home meet"😉 tomorrow;

Me too! Lets meAt up, I love a gopod BJ just before a race.

Quoted message said:

a
little hilly, but I can walk to the starting line. I probably won't be
the fastest again, but my hope is always to be fast enough one more
time.

You can dream, you can dream.
Cheers,
Elford

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When I was in my late 30s I naively anticipated the day when I could
get into the 40-45 age group. I guess I had never bothered to look at
their times. I suppose the lesson is that if a guy is still running
at 44, it's pretty likely he takes it pretty seriously. I wonder if
it gets better at 50-55? : )

Don't count on it in a big city...I have often found that the 50+ runners,
when age-adjusted, are the strongest runners in the race. There are plenty
of average runners in that group, but it seems that a disporportionate
number of top runners are still active.

At my last race (400 runners), at age 55, only two 40-44 year olds beat me.
Everyone else 40+ was wayy back...

Most of the time, I do *not* take 1st in my age group. The prior race, a
former 28:xx 10k guy (Gary Tuttle, age 56) aced me out of an award...

At 58, I've found that (as I've moved up in age group) the same guys
who have been faster than me for years have moved up with me. The long
range outlook for me getting a lot faster is sketchy, at best. My plan
now is to out live 'em.

I'm running the Lake Tahoe Marathon (my "home meet"😉 tomorrow; a
little hilly, but I can walk to the starting line. I probably won't be
the fastest again, but my hope is always to be fast enough one more
time.

Richard

Prisoner at War said:

On Sep 25, 6:17 pm, Christos Dimitrakakis <oleth...@olethros-

desktop.info said:

I lift and run - while my running progress has been substantial, that was
only because I only recently started running more seriously. On the
other hand, lifting has stalled totally as far as I can see. I'd like to
do both as much as possible, of course.

Aha -- I had stalled on my lifts, too, earlier this year. Then I took
the concept of over-training seriously and gave myself lots of rest
(lots compared to my early "hard-core" way of thinking, that is). Now
I'm benching 315-lbs. -- and seem about to plateau all over again!

What do you suppose is causing you to stall on the weights?

I am not sure. Sometimes I take a long time to lift again (7-8 days)
and then I am totally sore when I do. This happened last week with my
chest workout, which I had to postpone. I probably should switch to
more frequent workouts so that I train everything at least twice a
week, even if it's lighter. A lot of times I have to travel, so I am
trying to peak my training just before travelling - but the total rest
is not doing me any favours I think. It'd have been better if I could
do a couple of light training sessions.

On the other hand, maybe it's my imagination. Checking my logs, since
I started lifting seriously this year I can lift approximately 30%
more weight than before.

Quoted message said:

I'm getting better with running, too...I seem to notice improvements
with every other run (which may simply be an indication of how "badly"
I was running before)

Yes, my running has improved a lot since I started training too.
I only time myself to see how long I am training.

Quoted message said:

Sounds like fun?

Hmmm maybe a good chance to get all-round development guys back in
sport. On the other hand, I think that current decathletes or even
sprinters could get good results in powerlifting since they do a lot
of lifts, but not the other way around.

Christos Dimitrakakis said:

I am not sure. Sometimes I take a long time to lift again (7-8 days)
and then I am totally sore when I do. This happened last week with my
chest workout, which I had to postpone. I probably should switch to
more frequent workouts so that I train everything at least twice a
week, even if it's lighter. A lot of times I have to travel, so I am
trying to peak my training just before travelling - but the total rest
is not doing me any favours I think.

In the Army, it was claimed that over 72 hours without exercise
results in muscles being "lost"...I know I can't just work out once a
week and expect to make progress.

Quoted message said:

It'd have been better if I could
do a couple of light training sessions.

You know, you can just do push-ups and crunches in your hotel room for
maintenance.

Quoted message said:

On the other hand, maybe it's my imagination. Checking my logs, since
I started lifting seriously this year I can lift approximately 30%
more weight than before.

Yes, we can get impatient, especially since gains are made most
rapidly in the beginning and I suppose we get used to that pace of
progress.

Quoted message said:

Yes, my running has improved a lot since I started training too.
I only time myself to see how long I am training.

Well, at least you've got that department covered to your
satisfaction!

Quoted message said:

Hmmm maybe a good chance to get all-round development guys back in
sport. On the other hand, I think that current decathletes or even
sprinters could get good results in powerlifting since they do a lot
of lifts, but not the other way around.

Muscle and Fitness magazine did an article in a summer issue about
some pro sprinter who's added weights to his training. Unfortunately,
though perhaps understandably, it seemed like the guy was just doing
fairly light weights, not looking to lift heavy.

I've always thought of physical fitness in "holistic" terms, not just
fast or strong but both...I just realized now that I forgot to add a
"flexibility" event to my proposed contest involving strength, speed,
endurance, and looks...in addition to sprints and long-distance
running, and powerlifting movements and a small bodybuilding
component, there should be a flexibility event where people do splits
and yoga-like movements demonstrating muscle flexibility...so, not
just looks, and not just speed and endurance and sheer strength, but
also muscle flexibility...that's still a long-term goal of mine, but I
hope to get all those things under my belt by this time next
year...?? 'Cause I ain't getting any younger and the body ain't as
fast, strong, or flexible as it used to be, God damn it....

Prisoner at War said:

On Oct 1, 6:23 am, Christos Dimitrakakis <[email hidden]> wrote:

In the Army, it was claimed that over 72 hours without exercise
results in muscles being "lost"...I know I can't just work out once a
week and expect to make progress.

Quoted message said:

It'd have been better if I could
do a couple of light training sessions.

You know, you can just do push-ups and crunches in your hotel room for
maintenance.

I used to do some yoga in those occasions.

Quoted message said:

component, there should be a flexibility event where people do splits
and yoga-like movements demonstrating muscle flexibility...so, not
just looks, and not just speed and endurance and sheer strength, but
also muscle flexibility...that's still a long-term goal of mine, but I
hope to get all those things under my belt by this time next
year...?? 'Cause I ain't getting any younger and the body ain't as
fast, strong, or flexible as it used to be, God damn it....

I was doing a lot of yoga last year after I got some combined shoulder
and wrist problems.
I approached it as a type of strength training and I seemed to get
good results. I don't think I became particularly flexible, but I
could maintain fairly hard poses for quite a long time. There was a
kind of progression. I haven't done it for a while, as a good yoga
session requires at least 30 minutes of time. But it kept me sane
while I was off training.

"brianj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When I was in my late 30s I naively anticipated the day when I could
get into the 40-45 age group. I guess I had never bothered to look at
their times. I suppose the lesson is that if a guy is still running
at 44, it's pretty likely he takes it pretty seriously. I wonder if
it gets better at 50-55? : )

Don't forget some people such as me didn't start until I was 40. Would I
have been better or faster at 40 we'll never knowing 45-49 , it is still
true but lesser numbers. As for the 50's, while some times do slow the
competition allowing for age slowing is remarkably high. I sad to say
the 60's is the point where there is a significant drop in both numbers
and time. WTF can one expect. I'm happy to still be out there.

In general, thinking the next 5 year bracket will be your chance to
shine ain't always true even when you get into the bottom of the group.
Keep your aims high but reality in reach. 🙂

-Doug real one

Doug Freese said:

Don't forget some people such as me didn't start until I was 40.

Did they even have shoes back in those days? or was it just a piece of
leather covering your feet?

Quoted message said:

Would I
have been better or faster at 40 we'll never knowing 45-49 , it is still
true but lesser numbers. As for the 50's, while some times do slow the
competition allowing for age slowing is remarkably high. I sad to say
the 60's is the point where there is a significant drop in both numbers
and time. WTF can one expect. I'm happy to still be out there.

It's too bad you drive your car, it'd be more impressive if you ran.

Quoted message said:

In general, thinking the next 5 year bracket will be your chance to
shine ain't always true even when you get into the bottom of the group.
Keep your aims high but reality in reach. 🙂

Unless you forgot your deodorant, then keep them down.

Quoted message said:

-Doug real one

I doubt you were ever real.

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:12:36 -0000, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Doug Freese said:

Don't forget some people such as me didn't start until I was 40.

Did they even have shoes back in those days? or was it just a piece of
leather covering your feet?

Quoted message said:

Would I
have been better or faster at 40 we'll never knowing 45-49 , it is still
true but lesser numbers. As for the 50's, while some times do slow the
competition allowing for age slowing is remarkably high. I sad to say
the 60's is the point where there is a significant drop in both numbers
and time. WTF can one expect. I'm happy to still be out there.

It's too bad you drive your car, it'd be more impressive if you ran.

Quoted message said:

In general, thinking the next 5 year bracket will be your chance to
shine ain't always true even when you get into the bottom of the group.
Keep your aims high but reality in reach. 🙂

Unless you forgot your deodorant, then keep them down.

Quoted message said:

-Doug real one

I doubt you were ever real.

[censored] troll.

DF da rea one

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Christos Dimitrakakis said:

Prisoner at War said:

On Oct 1, 6:23 am, Christos Dimitrakakis <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

In the Army, it was claimed that over 72 hours without exercise
results in muscles being "lost"...I know I can't just work out once a
week and expect to make progress.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It'd have been better if I could
do a couple of light training sessions.

Quoted message said:

You know, you can just do push-ups and crunches in your hotel room for
maintenance.

I used to do some yoga in those occasions.

So just add some push-ups and ab crunches to it, then. I like to do
100 push-ups, broken down usually as 60, 25, 15; and 100 crunches as
50, 30, 20.

Quoted message said:

I was doing a lot of yoga last year after I got some combined shoulder
and wrist problems.

Quoted message said:

From yoga???

Quoted message said:

I approached it as a type of strength training and I seemed to get
good results. I don't think I became particularly flexible, but I
could maintain fairly hard poses for quite a long time. There was a
kind of progression. I haven't done it for a while, as a good yoga
session requires at least 30 minutes of time. But it kept me sane
while I was off training.

Interesting...I do read of claims of strength gains from doing yoga,
but to me they must mean "strength" in terms of "finally able to twist
open a jar" instead of "explosive power"....

Doug Freese said:

"brianj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When I was in my late 30s I naively anticipated the day when I could
get into the 40-45 age group. I guess I had never bothered to look at
their times. I suppose the lesson is that if a guy is still running
at 44, it's pretty likely he takes it pretty seriously. I wonder if
it gets better at 50-55? : )

Don't forget some people such as me didn't start until I was 40. Would I

(-; The 50-55 and 55-60 age groups are pretty stacked. I'd concur with your
observation -- competition thins out in the 60-65. Even in 60+, there are
a few very fast guys, so to win your age group you need to either be really
good, or hope the fast guy doesn't show. But it's not like 50-55 where there
is a good turnout of very talented runners at any big race.

As far as 40 goes -- to be in line for an AG trophy, you need to be somewhat
competitive in the 30-39 group.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Quoted message said:

I was 36, weighed about 180.

I wrote a proposal and sent it to TRADOC in the mid 90s to change the
APFT. One of my recommendations was to replace the sit-up with the
crunch. Didn't get anywhere.

On the other hand, I was wondering whether the ab crunch was easier to
perform, and easier to cheat on....

Quoted message said:

At least the Air Force is doing pull ups and situps like the Marines
do on their APFT. I remember when the Air Force's PFT consisted of
pedaling a stationary bike for time.

What??? Holy cow, that's really funny!! Six weeks of basic is pretty
funny to begin with. The Air Force is like the most mysterious
service ever. I hear and see more from the Coast Guard than I do from
the Air Force! The Coast Guard even ran ads in the NYC subways once,
like the Marines...I don't think I've ever seen an Air Force recruiter
in any school, or walking around town or anything.

Which only means the service sells itself pretty well, and why they
call it "the life."

Quoted message said:

I was 36, weighed about 180.

I wrote a proposal and sent it to TRADOC in the mid 90s to change the
APFT. One of my recommendations was to replace the sit-up with the
crunch. Didn't get anywhere.

On the other hand, I was wondering whether the ab crunch was easier to
perform, and easier to cheat on....

Quoted message said:

At least the Air Force is doing pull ups and situps like the Marines
do on their APFT. I remember when the Air Force's PFT consisted of
pedaling a stationary bike for time.

What??? Holy cow, that's really funny!! Six weeks of basic is pretty
funny to begin with. The Air Force is like the most mysterious
service ever. I hear and see more from the Coast Guard than I do from
the Air Force! The Coast Guard even ran ads in the NYC subways once,
like the Marines...I don't think I've ever seen an Air Force recruiter
in any school, or walking around town or anything.

Which only means the service sells itself pretty well, and why they
call it "the life."

Michelle Steiner said:

At one time, the APFT consisted of five events: pushup, sit-up, dodge,
run, and jump, overhead ladder, and the 2-mile run. Before that, they
had a grenade throw instead of the overhead ladder. And somewhere in
the mix, there was a crab walk, but I don't recall what it replaced or
what replaced it. And at one time, non-combat troops had only a
one-mile run. But pushups and situps were always part of the test,
going back to when I enlisted in 61.

That sounds funny -- a "crab walk"? And what's an overhead ladder?

The grenade toss sounds like a good thing they should have
kept...though athletic, I wasn't a ball-playing athlete and throwing/
pitching grenades was totally new to me. That one-day introduction in
basic was nothing, and didn't prepare me for real-world exercises.

You know, I really didn't get an obstacle course in basic
training...that cool fun playground stuff they show in the ads, I
really didn't get any of that...but our Ranger DS did make sure we did
that ~60-ft. "helicopter-tower" rappel....

There was an article earlier this year in the NYT about how Army BCT
is rethinking its physical fitness assumptions...apparently, the Army
had adopted an "European" model after WWII, which involves running/
endurance more than calisthenics/upper-body strength, and they're
finding out that most of what combat troops require is upper-body
strength, not aerobic endurance...??

Quoted message said:

I retired in May of 83, and my memory is rusty about some of the details.

'83! I had just been put in ESL class, LOL....

Quoted message said:

--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

Prisoner at War said:

Michelle Steiner said:

At one time, the APFT consisted of five events: pushup, sit-up, dodge,
run, and jump, overhead ladder, and the 2-mile run. Before that, they
had a grenade throw instead of the overhead ladder. And somewhere in
the mix, there was a crab walk, but I don't recall what it replaced or
what replaced it. And at one time, non-combat troops had only a
one-mile run. But pushups and situps were always part of the test,
going back to when I enlisted in 61.

That sounds funny -- a "crab walk"? And what's an overhead ladder?

The grenade toss sounds like a good thing they should have
kept...though athletic, I wasn't a ball-playing athlete and throwing/
pitching grenades was totally new to me. That one-day introduction in
basic was nothing, and didn't prepare me for real-world exercises.

You know, I really didn't get an obstacle course in basic
training...that cool fun playground stuff they show in the ads, I
really didn't get any of that...but our Ranger DS did make sure we did
that ~60-ft. "helicopter-tower" rappel....

There was an article earlier this year in the NYT about how Army BCT
is rethinking its physical fitness assumptions...apparently, the Army
had adopted an "European" model after WWII, which involves running/
endurance more than calisthenics/upper-body strength, and they're
finding out that most of what combat troops require is upper-body
strength, not aerobic endurance...??

Quoted message said:

I retired in May of 83, and my memory is rusty about some of the details.

'83! I had just been put in ESL class, LOL....

Quoted message said:

--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In article <[email hidden]>,

Prisoner at War said:

That sounds funny -- a "crab walk"? And what's an overhead ladder?

Crab walk is walking on your hands and feet with your back to the ground
and your belly and chest to the sky. You go feet first for whatever the
distance was, and then return, going head first.

Overhead ladder is a ladder horizontal to the ground (with round rungs,
made from pipes--maybe an inch in diameter) about eight feet high. You
hang with both hands from the first rung, reach to the second rung with
one hand, then to the third run with the other hand, and going hand over
hand like that, to the end of the ladder (25 rungs in all), turn around,
and go back--and keep doing this for two minutes or until you fall off
the ladder, whichever comes first. (Some tall people had to keep their
knees bent to avoid their feet from touching the ground while doing this
event.)

Quoted message said:

The grenade toss sounds like a good thing they should have
kept...

By the way, you had to throw for both distance and accuracy; you aimed
at a pole, and your score depended on how close to the pole the grenade
was when it stopped rolling. Overthrowing or throwing to the side was
just as bad as underthrowing.

Quoted message said:

You know, I really didn't get an obstacle course in basic
training...that cool fun playground stuff they show in the ads, I
really didn't get any of that...

Yeah, the guys got that in the last week of BCT; they called it the
"Confidence Course". A friend of mine told me that there was one guy in
his platoon who refused to do the slide for life--climb a tower and
slide down a rope. That guy was the only one in the platoon who had
signed up for airborne!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I retired in May of 83, and my memory is rusty about some of the
details.

'83! I had just been put in ESL class, LOL..

Yup, I'm an old fart.

--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.