Periodisation and TSS

Philsybob said:

...I am a little perplexed around the concept of periodisation - chug along at level 2 for 3 months of the year.

Whilst your TSS may be around 600 etc your intensity factor is going to be very low. Aren't you just training your system to go slow?

That's been my experience with LSD based winter base and the reason I don't take that approach these days.

Quoted post said:

...Whereas, my current program - all year round is still a score of 600 (per week), but includes: 1 x 3 hour TSS 200 IF 0.66, 2 x 2 hour TSS 150 IF .78, and then a choiceo of a couple of sessions, either SST, or 2 x 20 FTP, or L5 5 minute intervals.

Don't know about the all year round part, sure like to do some higher end work as the racing season approaches, but drop the L5 and it describes my winter base build perfectly. Then I add the L5 work later in the winter or about 6 weeks before my first races, then some higher end work as the races get closer.

Quoted post said:

...or am I missing something from the periodisation piece.

Periodization means different things to different folks. I use the overall concept of build periods, A and B races, tapers, etc. but don't agree with mandatory slow miles in early winter build, I tried that for years and went slow. I also don't buy into preplanned hard and easy weeks and prefer to listen to my body, to use the PMC in WKO+ and to work around life's interruptions instead of charting my training intensity months ahead of time.

One thing to think about during winter and preseason build is to put as much CTL in the bank as you can reasonably manage. It's hard to maintain let alone build CTL during race season so it pays to push that up during the off season. Your steady 600 TSS per week will get your CTL up to 86 TSS/day if you maintain it long enough but bumping that up a bit higher can be handy for long events, stage races or just to help you through periods of hard training. I came out of last winter with a CTL around 70 and built up to ~ 100 by mid season before spending a lot of that in tapers, frequent racing and the associated recovery. I'd like to get my CTL up a bit higher by the time spring rolls around this year.

Anyway, I definitely don't think you need to schedule a lot of early season L2 but you might want to think about a CTL building strategy.

-Dave

thanks.

Sounds like I am on the right path.

Its funny, when you keep reading (in a lot of books) the whole "build the foundation" using LSD. It seems a bit outdated now.

Philsybob said:

thanks.

Sounds like I am on the right path.

Its funny, when you keep reading (in a lot of books) the whole "build the foundation" using LSD. It seems a bit outdated now.

True story! Maybe someone will remedy that soon with a better book?

Roadie_scum said:

True story! Maybe someone will remedy that soon with a better book?

I´m anxiously waiting for part 2 of Charles Howe´s e-book.

Philsybob said:

thanks.

Sounds like I am on the right path.

Its funny, when you keep reading (in a lot of books) the whole "build the foundation" using LSD. It seems a bit outdated now.

this has been outdated for a long time... LeMond was saying that in his book 20 years ago... as long as you are not taking months off at a time like some racers did back in the day then doing long LSD sessions are really not necessary... he say take off a max of 2 weeks at a stretch and no LSD is necessary and really a waste of time. he was coached by Cyrille Guimard who also coached riders such as Bernard Hinault, Laurent Fignon and most recently Andy Schelck who just placed 2nd at the Giro at the age of 21... he's also one of the pioneers of periodized training... i think these guys know what they are talking about given the amount of Tour victories they have under their belts...

Hallo girls and boys,

I am one of these old fashion Europeans who believe in long L2 sessions during winter and spring time. Reading American Internet sites it seems that this is totally out off date, i.e. a waste of time. But what if you start with higher intensity work out in January if you most important races are in July to September? How to increase intensity so slowly to not to over train?

The guys I know who do high intensity work-outs (above L3 to L4) the whole year through are fast in training sessions but not in races. When it comes to racing they are too often ill or have other excuses.

I got the experiences over years that if I have a good base until April, i.e. lots of miles at L2 and L3, I can quickly build (i.e. in 3 to 5 weeks) anaerobic strength and conserve my form until September.

Best wishes for the final of saison 2007

BergHügi said:

Hallo girls and boys,

I am one of these old fashion Europeans who believe in long L2 sessions during winter and spring time. Reading American Internet sites it seems that this is totally out off date, i.e. a waste of time. But what if you start with higher intensity work out in January if you most important races are in July to September? How to increase intensity so slowly to not to over train?

The guys I know who do high intensity work-outs (above L3 to L4) the whole year through are fast in training sessions but not in races. When it comes to racing they are too often ill or have other excuses.

I got the experiences over years that if I have a good base until April, i.e. lots of miles at L2 and L3, I can quickly build (i.e. in 3 to 5 weeks) anaerobic strength and conserve my form until September.

Best wishes for the final of saison 2007

i have seen the same thing too... it is easy to get yourself into trouble and peaking too early and exhaustion before the season even starts etc when working at higher intensities in the off season.. i takes some care and management... but if done properly your year over year gains will be much geater working at higher intensities in the off season.

i still take my month off in the off season, but just not all at the same time. i take two week long segments off... one at the end of the season and one a littlel later on and i take about 2weeks at Christmas. i also cap my intensity at L4 almost all my training in the winter is L3-L4 (SST) and as well i do L7 year round... you don't want to be doing L5-L6 in the winter though... i start these intensities just ast he racing season starts. the other factor is training volume, which for me is about half the volume (time and TSS) in the winter as it is in the summer, but TSS wise it's about what you would be doing if you were doing that LSD, it just takes a lot shorter time... when i start building in the spring, i start building volume (time and TSS)... i use actualy don't use follow time anymore i pretty much use TSS to measure volume.

Perhaps the people who are getting sick aren't taking enough time off. It is very addictive (L3 and L4) endorphins etc, Maybe the work/recovery mix is out of whack. 3 weeks on 1 week recovery (or possibly 2 weeks on and 1 week recovery) is not a regime that would be followed by your average obsessed cyclist.

If the objective is to incrementally build, I see how you can still do this with more intensive work - but you would have to closely monitor the recovery period.

My own experience has me on a three weeks hard, one week recovery, and I see a drop in 20 minute TT power over that time (not much, but enough).

I also think that L3 and L4 type training is not necessarily done on an overload basis. eg 2 x 20 minutes at FTP week, after week after week is not overload.

But 2 x 20 minutes at FTP, 2 x 20 minutes + 1 x 10 minutes is (obviously duration), and possibly 3 x 20 minutes at 90% FTP (you get the picture). would be.

Philsybob said:

Perhaps the people who are getting sick aren't taking enough time off. It is very addictive (L3 and L4) endorphins etc, Maybe the work/recovery mix is out of whack. 3 weeks on 1 week recovery (or possibly 2 weeks on and 1 week recovery) is not a regime that would be followed by your average obsessed cyclist.

If the objective is to incrementally build, I see how you can still do this with more intensive work - but you would have to closely monitor the recovery period.

My own experience has me on a three weeks hard, one week recovery, and I see a drop in 20 minute TT power over that time (not much, but enough).

I also think that L3 and L4 type training is not necessarily done on an overload basis. eg 2 x 20 minutes at FTP week, after week after week is not overload.

But 2 x 20 minutes at FTP, 2 x 20 minutes + 1 x 10 minutes is (obviously duration), and possibly 3 x 20 minutes at 90% FTP (you get the picture). would be.

What is/isn't overload/overdoing it varies a lot based on where you are at already with your volume. First day out after doing nothing for three months, 3 X 20 will put a big hole in you! If you have built volume consistently for a while and have a substantial aerobic base (not saying L1/2...) 3 X 20 may be nothing to write home about.

That's why it's nice to have a way to objectively track the increase in training load like PMC. I find a CTL ramp of ~8 points a week fine until I get to about 65% of my max volume, then taper off to 6 points a week, then 3-5 a week. Thinking about it this way, the impact of a 3 X 20 session on your ramp depends entirely on where you are at in volume already.