Air conditioning

James Silverton said:

Hello, All!

The perennial accusation that Americans waste oil to produce
electricity for AC has arisen again. The statement usually comes
from places that do not really need air conditioning like
Switzerland and San Francisco :-) Working in Washington DC
without AC can be most unpleasant and often sleeping at night
can be difficult.

Every year on rec.travel.europe there is a huge discussion about a/c
and the need for it. Of course we Yanks are always accused of being
"wasteful", etc. The majority of Yurpeens can't even GRASP the
concept of a/c, let alone why it would be at all necessary...

In poo - pooing a/c they'll say stuff like, "Just open a window...our
house is by the sea so we get a breeze...we live in a 16th century
stone house in Provence, the walls are 20 feet thick so there is no
need for artificial cooling...". They are just stubbornly ignorant...

With summers getting hotter they'll have to "succumb" to a/c too. A
few years ago France had a heat wave, tens of thousands of mainly
elderly folks died. IIRC there is only ONE hospital in all of France
that is wholly air conditioned, the American Hospital in Paris.
Apparently a/c is used in operating theaters, but the wards are not a/
c'ed - and many of these are modern buildings with "sealed window"
construction. Several posters on rec.travel.europe say this is
changing somewhat...

The majority of France's power comes from nuclear reactors, so they
can't use the lame "global warming" excuse...

Anyways, regarding DC, I can't imagine what life was like before
widespread a/c. Same with St. Louis or many other places...and that
includes here in Chicago.

I'll admit that it is true that the

Quoted message said:

temperature is sometimes set unnecessarily low. I wonder why
fish restaurants are usually the coldest?

Would you rather eat in a warm/hot fish resto...???

:-)

Quoted message said:

I was a government scientist and I once was criticized for not
obeying that prize president, Jimmy Carter, and keeping my lab
at 70F. To obey the edict I had to use an air-conditioner since
the heat came from my instruments!

Lol...

--
Best
Greg

In article <IyzDi.12728$sf1.971@trnddc01>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

The perennial accusation that Americans waste oil to produce
electricity for AC has arisen again. The statement usually comes
from places that do not really need air conditioning like
Switzerland and San Francisco :-) Working in Washington DC
without AC can be most unpleasant and often sleeping at night
can be difficult. I'll admit that it is true that the
temperature is sometimes set unnecessarily low.

So, by your own admission, the accusation is true.

AC is indeed essential in many areas of the country, including here
(NC). It's when AC is used to keep too-big McMansions colder than needed
that the waste comes into play.

--
Peter Aitken

Peter wrote on Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:49:40 -0400:

PA> In article <IyzDi.12728$sf1.971@trnddc01>,
PA> [email hidden] says...
??>> The perennial accusation that Americans waste oil to
??>> produce electricity for AC has arisen again. The statement
??>> usually comes from places that do not really need air
??>> conditioning like Switzerland and San Francisco :-)
??>> Working in Washington DC without AC can be most unpleasant
??>> and often sleeping at night can be difficult. I'll admit
??>> that it is true that the temperature is sometimes set
??>> unnecessarily low.
??>>
PA> So, by your own admission, the accusation is true.

Picky, picky! I did say "sometimes" and the accusers normally
are generalizing!

PA> AC is indeed essential in many areas of the country,
PA> including here (NC). It's when AC is used to keep too-big
PA> McMansions colder than needed that the waste comes into
PA> play.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Quoted message said:

Picky, picky! I did say "sometimes" and the accusers normally
are generalizing!

PA> AC is indeed essential in many areas of the country,
PA> including here (NC). It's when AC is used to keep too-big
PA> McMansions colder than needed that the waste comes into
PA> play.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

In addition, internal thermostats differ from person to person. What's
"too cold" for one, may be "too warm" for another.

Here in flyover country, when the temps are in the 90s and humidity in
the 90s and the air is "calm," I dare anyone to sleep comfortably
without A/C. A fan just blows hot air around.

N.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nancy2 said:

Quoted message said:

Picky, picky! I did say "sometimes" and the accusers normally
are generalizing!

PA> AC is indeed essential in many areas of the country,
PA> including here (NC). It's when AC is used to keep too-big
PA> McMansions colder than needed that the waste comes into
PA> play.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

In addition, internal thermostats differ from person to person. What's
"too cold" for one, may be "too warm" for another.

Here in flyover country, when the temps are in the 90s and humidity in
the 90s and the air is "calm," I dare anyone to sleep comfortably
without A/C. A fan just blows hot air around.

N.

Yep.

I may [censored] about my power bill, but the thermostat is still set at 72!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

"Peter A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <IyzDi.12728$sf1.971@trnddc01>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

The perennial accusation that Americans waste oil to produce
electricity for AC has arisen again. The statement usually comes
from places that do not really need air conditioning like
Switzerland and San Francisco :-) Working in Washington DC
without AC can be most unpleasant and often sleeping at night
can be difficult. I'll admit that it is true that the
temperature is sometimes set unnecessarily low.

So, by your own admission, the accusation is true.

AC is indeed essential in many areas of the country, including here
(NC). It's when AC is used to keep too-big McMansions colder than needed
that the waste comes into play.

--
Peter Aitken

I have this crazy idea about colleges teaching the next generation of
architects how to design homes and properties to be cooler in summer. Deeper
eaves on the houses, less or smaller windows on the west side, leave nice
shade trees in place, etc.

It'll never happen.

Omelet wrote on Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:18:29 -0500:

??>>> Picky, picky! I did say "sometimes" and the accusers
??>>> normally are generalizing!
??>>>
PA>>>> AC is indeed essential in many areas of the country,
PA>>>> including here (NC). It's when AC is used to keep
PA>>>> too-big McMansions colder than needed that the waste
PA>>>> comes into play.
??>>>
??>> In addition, internal thermostats differ from person to
??>> person. What's "too cold" for one, may be "too warm" for
??>> another.
??>>
??>> Here in flyover country, when the temps are in the 90s and
??>> humidity in the 90s and the air is "calm," I dare anyone
??>> to sleep comfortably without A/C. A fan just blows hot
??>> air around.

Using a fan can make a temperature tolerable that would not be
the case with still air. That was definitely my experience with
ceiling fans in Hawaii.

O> I may [censored] about my power bill, but the thermostat is still
O> set at 72! --

I find that 80F is quite pleasant providing that the central
system comes on from time to time to stir up the air. Even 82F
is not too bad under similar conditions if you want to be frugal
and are not engaged in much physical activity. At night, if I
want to get to sleep at temperatures, say 77F and above, I use a
window fan if the AC is to be off.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I find that 80F is quite pleasant providing that the central system comes
on from time to time to stir up the air.

I keep the central fan on so the air stays uniformly
comfortable. Whether I do or not, once the house is cooled
sufficiently, the A/C unit doesn't kick on very often unless the
temperature outside is brutal.

If the humidity is high and the temperatures are hot, I have
to turn on the air conditioner, but once it's sucked out the
moisture, the house isn't kept very cool at all yet is still
comfortable.

nancy

In article <[email hidden]>,

JoeSpareBedroom said:

"Peter A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <IyzDi.12728$sf1.971@trnddc01>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

The perennial accusation that Americans waste oil to produce
electricity for AC has arisen again. The statement usually comes
from places that do not really need air conditioning like
Switzerland and San Francisco :-) Working in Washington DC
without AC can be most unpleasant and often sleeping at night
can be difficult. I'll admit that it is true that the
temperature is sometimes set unnecessarily low.

So, by your own admission, the accusation is true.

AC is indeed essential in many areas of the country, including here
(NC). It's when AC is used to keep too-big McMansions colder than needed
that the waste comes into play.

--
Peter Aitken

I have this crazy idea about colleges teaching the next generation of
architects how to design homes and properties to be cooler in summer. Deeper
eaves on the houses, less or smaller windows on the west side, leave nice
shade trees in place, etc.

It'll never happen.

Small windows on the SOUTH side idiot.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

JoeSpareBedroom said:

"Peter A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <IyzDi.12728$sf1.971@trnddc01>,
[email hidden]
says...
> The perennial accusation that Americans waste oil to produce
> electricity for AC has arisen again. The statement usually comes
> from places that do not really need air conditioning like
> Switzerland and San Francisco :-) Working in Washington DC
> without AC can be most unpleasant and often sleeping at night
> can be difficult. I'll admit that it is true that the
> temperature is sometimes set unnecessarily low.
>

So, by your own admission, the accusation is true.

AC is indeed essential in many areas of the country, including here
(NC). It's when AC is used to keep too-big McMansions colder than
needed
that the waste comes into play.

--
Peter Aitken

I have this crazy idea about colleges teaching the next generation of
architects how to design homes and properties to be cooler in summer.
Deeper
eaves on the houses, less or smaller windows on the west side, leave nice
shade trees in place, etc.

It'll never happen.

Small windows on the SOUTH side idiot.

Not here, moron. No explanation will be provided as to why. Ask an
architect.

James Silverton said:

Omelet wrote on Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:18:29 -0500:

Quoted message said:

O> I may [censored] about my power bill, but the thermostat is still
O> set at 72! --
I find that 80F is quite pleasant providing that the central system
comes on from time to time to stir up the air. Even 82F is not too
bad under similar conditions if you want to be frugal and are not
engaged in much physical activity. At night, if I want to get to
sleep at temperatures, say 77F and above, I use a window fan if the
AC is to be off.

I have a programmable thermostat. It's set for 82F during the weekdays,
then ramps down to 79 before I get home. Later it goes down to 76 for
sleepytime. I have ceiling fans that help circulate the air.

It's generally pretty comfortable.

Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

JoeSpareBedroom said:

I have this crazy idea about colleges teaching the next generation of
architects how to design homes and properties to be cooler in summer. Deeper
eaves on the houses, less or smaller windows on the west side, leave nice
shade trees in place, etc.

It'll never happen.

When you look at Bahamian or Caribbean homes, I can see where they have
done a few of the things you mentioned. They have wide porches, so you
can sit outside and chat, and those wide porches keep the sun from
directly entering the windows. They also have white roofs to reflect the
sunlight.

BTW, next year I am remodeling the front of my house to look Bahamian. I
did the back of the house and the patio a couple of months ago. It
should be interesting, and I am hoping it does not look goofy. <g>

Becca

"Omelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nancy2 said:

Quoted message said:

Picky, picky! I did say "sometimes" and the accusers normally
are generalizing!

PA> AC is indeed essential in many areas of the country,
PA> including here (NC). It's when AC is used to keep too-big
PA> McMansions colder than needed that the waste comes into
PA> play.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

In addition, internal thermostats differ from person to person. What's
"too cold" for one, may be "too warm" for another.

Here in flyover country, when the temps are in the 90s and humidity in
the 90s and the air is "calm," I dare anyone to sleep comfortably
without A/C. A fan just blows hot air around.

N.

Yep.

I may [censored] about my power bill, but the thermostat is still set at 72!
--
Peace, Om

And I'm a really good .... anyone can fill in the blanks .. because I keep
my thermostat in the summer at 77.
In fact I'm better than anyone else here, except those who cannot afford air
conditioning.
Dee Dee

Omelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nancy2 said:

Quoted message said:

Picky, picky! I did say "sometimes" and the accusers normally
are generalizing!

PA> AC is indeed essential in many areas of the country,
PA> including here (NC). It's when AC is used to keep too-big
PA> McMansions colder than needed that the waste comes into
PA> play.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

In addition, internal thermostats differ from person to person. What's
"too cold" for one, may be "too warm" for another.

Here in flyover country, when the temps are in the 90s and humidity in
the 90s and the air is "calm," I dare anyone to sleep comfortably
without A/C. A fan just blows hot air around.

N.

Yep.

I may [censored] about my power bill, but the thermostat is still set at 72!

So it's you wasting all out fossil fuels on air conditioning! My
thermostat is set at 78...

"Pete C." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I may [censored] about my power bill, but the thermostat is still set at 72!

So it's you wasting all out fossil fuels on air conditioning! My
thermostat is set at 78...

The dunce's corner for you. Your foot is too large.
Dee Dee

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I may [censored] about my power bill, but the thermostat is still set at 72!

So it's you wasting all out fossil fuels on air conditioning! My
thermostat is set at 78...

Most people would be surprised at what they can get used to. We recently
went from 76 during the day to 79 (I work at home - in hot and steamy
North Carolina - so I am very aware of these changes). I was
uncomfortable for a couple of days but then adjusted, and now it seems
just right. Intelligent use of fans helps as does dressing
appropriately.

--
Peter Aitken

Dee Dee said:

"Pete C." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I may [censored] about my power bill, but the thermostat is still set at 72!

So it's you wasting all out fossil fuels on air conditioning! My
thermostat is set at 78...

The dunce's corner for you. Your foot is too large.
Dee Dee

'Scuse me twiddle dee?

Peter A said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I may [censored] about my power bill, but the thermostat is still set at 72!

So it's you wasting all out fossil fuels on air conditioning! My
thermostat is set at 78...

Most people would be surprised at what they can get used to. We recently
went from 76 during the day to 79 (I work at home - in hot and steamy
North Carolina - so I am very aware of these changes). I was
uncomfortable for a couple of days but then adjusted, and now it seems
just right. Intelligent use of fans helps as does dressing
appropriately.

--
Peter Aitken

I work at home in hot but somewhat less steamy TX. I could probably
acclimate to something higher than 78, but I stopped there for the
aquarium, not wanting to fuss with trying to cool it.

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 16:31:46 -0400, "Dee Dee" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Omelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nancy2 said:

> Picky, picky! I did say "sometimes" and the accusers normally
> are generalizing!
>
> PA> AC is indeed essential in many areas of the country,
> PA> including here (NC). It's when AC is used to keep too-big
> PA> McMansions colder than needed that the waste comes into
> PA> play.
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>

In addition, internal thermostats differ from person to person. What's
"too cold" for one, may be "too warm" for another.

Here in flyover country, when the temps are in the 90s and humidity in
the 90s and the air is "calm," I dare anyone to sleep comfortably
without A/C. A fan just blows hot air around.

N.

Yep.

I may [censored] about my power bill, but the thermostat is still set at 72!
--
Peace, Om

And I'm a really good .... anyone can fill in the blanks .. because I keep
my thermostat in the summer at 77.
In fact I'm better than anyone else here, except those who cannot afford air
conditioning.
Dee Dee

I keep my thermostat at 78 degrees in the summer. I used to have a
programable thermostat and kept the temps down when we were not home
or sleeping. Not I do not worry about it. When you have to get up
several times at night, having the house cold is not worth it.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)