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Greg Lemond on doping problems...

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27 August 2007
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  1. (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/aug07/aug26news )

    Greg makes some interesting suggestions, but I have problems with some
    of them.

    Not really sure how much good this would do. After all they can always
    dope during the night or some other time. Secondly isolated from
    whom..?? One possiblilty would be to have unauthorized people from
    visting their hotel. This could be a bit onerous since the teams often
    "stay at more than one hotel.
    "keeping riders sequestered for two hours before races to eliminate
    "unauthorized contact,"
    "
    This seems like a very good idea
    "increasing the number of randomly tested riders to 20"

    Another good idea, but some riders have naturally higher levels.
    "lowering the hematocrit limit to 46 percent - the upper end of the
    range considered normal in medical tests".

    Another good idea, but does not go far enough. Lifetime first use bans
    must be established.
    "He also wants to see higher penalties for those caught cheating, but
    an additional consideration for those who would act as informants."

    Seems to me this is already illegal...!!
    ""In LeMond's ideal situation, "There would be the ability to plea-
    bargain prison sentences, so when riders get busted they can rat out
    the system and come back to racing in much heavier testing." He went
    on to say that doping "needs to be criminalized because they are
    trafficking in illegal drugs. They are prescription drugs, but they
    are being illegally distributed throughout the peloton.""

    Oh please Greg this is just another typical cheap shot.
    "LeMond was also not afraid to take a thinly veiled shot at his fellow
    Tour winner Lance Armstrong, whose Discovery Channel team announced it
    would disband after ceasing its search for a new sponsor earlier this
    month. "I think we're fleshing out a lot of people who are leaving,"
    he told the newspaper. "I think a lot of people are leaving not
    because they can't get sponsors, but because [investigators are]
    getting serious. The guys that have been getting away with it don't
    want to be caught.""

    In this case it's whether Taylors father has set a good example with
    doping not the sport.
    "Despite claiming that he was "the most optimistic I have been in
    years" about the state of the sport, he still holds some reservations
    about seeing youngsters starting their careers in professional
    cycling. LeMond's contemporary Davis Phinney has a son, Taylor, who
    just won a gold medal in the Junior World Championships, and LeMond
    has mixed feelings about his success. "He could be one of our most
    talented riders coming up," LeMond said.

    "At first I thought, 'Oh, I'm so happy for him, and then I thought,
    'Oh, I'm so sad for him.' Because I don't know if I was the parent,
    and my son would have won the worlds that I would allow him to pursue
    it on the professional level," LeMond continued. "I am optimistic that
    there is a change and it's shifting, and that maybe Taylor Phinney can
    have a chance like I did where you don't have to decide to either sell
    your soul to be part of a sport, or having your dignity and be proud
    of doing it on your own." "

  2. On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:41:49 -0700, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/aug07/aug26news )

    Greg makes some interesting suggestions, but I have problems with some
    of them.

    Not really sure how much good this would do. After all they can always
    dope during the night or some other time. Secondly isolated from
    whom..?? One possiblilty would be to have unauthorized people from
    visting their hotel. This could be a bit onerous since the teams often
    "stay at more than one hotel.
    "keeping riders sequestered for two hours before races to eliminate
    "unauthorized contact,"

    Keep 'em in a windowless motel like keirin racers.

    Quoted message said:

    Oh please Greg this is just another typical cheap shot.
    "LeMond was also not afraid to take a thinly veiled shot at his fellow
    Tour winner Lance Armstrong, whose Discovery Channel team announced it
    would disband after ceasing its search for a new sponsor earlier this
    month. "I think we're fleshing out a lot of people who are leaving,"
    he told the newspaper. "I think a lot of people are leaving not
    because they can't get sponsors, but because [investigators are]
    getting serious. The guys that have been getting away with it don't
    want to be caught.""

    Oh full bucking [censored]!

    The reason Disco walked off is that the hysterical, lawless antidoping hysteria
    has made it impossible for them to obtain a sponsor. The situation is so insane
    that they could not in good faith even promise that they would be able to enter
    next year's Tour as a team.

    All it takes is, what? Someone at ASO not liking something about you, or going
    with national teams or some history about Contador and they aren't invited.

    Who's going to invest $15,000,000 into a team under the present system.

    Thanks for helping the riders out, Greg. The calm and perspective a cooler,
    older head can provide is really going to help the sport.

    Ron

  3. Hobbes@spnb&s.com said:

    The reason Disco walked off is that the hysterical, lawless antidoping hysteria
    has made it impossible for them to obtain a sponsor. The situation is so insane
    that they could not in good faith even promise that they would be able to enter
    next year's Tour as a team.

    Well, they claim that they had a prospective sponsor but that they
    purposely decided to close shop because of what appeared to be a
    threat to any sponsors. I would have taken the same position. What's
    happening now is a direct attack on anyone that would sponsor cycling.
    What's pitiful is that LeMond is leading the charge. Apparently after
    starting the million dollar contracts he now wants to eliminate them.

    Quoted message said:

    All it takes is, what? Someone at ASO not liking something about you, or going
    with national teams or some history about Contador and they aren't invited.

    Cycle racing is about to go into the dumper again now that they've
    finally risen to the level of a REAL(tm) professional sport.

    Quoted message said:

    Who's going to invest $15,000,000 into a team under the present system.

    Thanks for helping the riders out, Greg. The calm and perspective a cooler,
    older head can provide is really going to help the sport.

    Well, it's always hard to get a clear picture of what someone is like
    from headlines but I'm beginning to doubt the motivation of LeMond.

  4. cyclintom said:

    Well, it's always hard to get a clear picture of what someone is like
    from headlines but I'm beginning to doubt the motivation of LeMond.

    His motivation is anything for a headline.

  5. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/aug07/aug26news )

    Greg makes some interesting suggestions, but I have problems with some
    of them.

    snip...

    Quoted message said:

    Seems to me this is already illegal...!!
    ""In LeMond's ideal situation, "There would be the ability to plea-
    bargain prison sentences, so when riders get busted they can rat out
    the system and come back to racing in much heavier testing." He went
    on to say that doping "needs to be criminalized because they are
    trafficking in illegal drugs. They are prescription drugs, but they
    are being illegally distributed throughout the peloton.""

    If Greg is ever accused and ends up on the stand he can avoid prison by
    pleading not guilty by reason of insanity.
    --
    Marty

  6. Hobbes@spnb&s.com said:

    On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:41:49 -0700, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/aug07/aug26news )

    Quoted message said:

    Greg makes some interesting suggestions, but I have problems with some
    of them.

    Quoted message said:

    Not really sure how much good this would do. After all they can always
    dope during the night or some other time. Secondly isolated from
    whom..?? One possiblilty would be to have unauthorized people from
    visting their hotel. This could be a bit onerous since the teams often
    "stay at more than one hotel.
    "keeping riders sequestered for two hours before races to eliminate
    "unauthorized contact,"

    Keep 'em in a windowless motel like keirin racers.

    Quoted message said:

    Oh please Greg this is just another typical cheap shot.
    "LeMond was also not afraid to take a thinly veiled shot at his fellow
    Tour winner Lance Armstrong, whose Discovery Channel team announced it
    would disband after ceasing its search for a new sponsor earlier this
    month. "I think we're fleshing out a lot of people who are leaving,"
    he told the newspaper. "I think a lot of people are leaving not
    because they can't get sponsors, but because [investigators are]
    getting serious. The guys that have been getting away with it don't
    want to be caught.""

    Oh full bucking [censored]!

    The reason Disco walked off is that the hysterical, lawless antidoping hysteria
    has made it impossible for them to obtain a sponsor. The situation is so insane
    that they could not in good faith even promise that they would be able to enter
    next year's Tour as a team.

    All it takes is, what? Someone at ASO not liking something about you, or going
    with national teams or some history about Contador and they aren't invited.

    Who's going to invest $15,000,000 into a team under the present system.

    Thanks for helping the riders out, Greg. The calm and perspective a cooler,
    older head can provide is really going to help the sport.

    Ron

    Discovery is largely responsible for it's own breakup. They knew there
    was already a lot of controversy flying around after the Landis
    incident. To hire a rider like Basso who had questionable reputation
    exposed Discovery to unacceptable risks. I am amazed that Bruyneel did
    not fully realize the implications of hiring Basso.

  7. "Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    cyclintom said:

    Well, it's always hard to get a clear picture of what someone is like
    from headlines but I'm beginning to doubt the motivation of LeMond.

    His motivation is anything for a headline.

    I don't know him at all but it sure seems that he needs constant attention
    from the media. He managed to make sure that he was a central part of both
    the LA bonus arbitration and the FL doping hearing.

    What are the chances that FL would confess to Greg in a phone call after he
    already knew how Greg had represented the telephone call he had with LA
    concerning doping?

  8. Quoted post said:
    Hobbes@spnb&s.com said:

    On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:41:49 -0700, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/aug07/aug26news)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Greg makes some interesting suggestions, but I have problems with some
    of them.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Not really sure how much good this would do. After all they can always
    dope during the night or some other time. Secondly isolated from
    whom..?? One possiblilty would be to have unauthorized people from
    visting their hotel. This could be a bit onerous since the teams often
    "stay at more than one hotel.
    "keeping riders sequestered for two hours before races to eliminate
    "unauthorized contact,"

    Quoted message said:

    Keep 'em in a windowless motel like keirin racers.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Oh please Greg this is just another typical cheap shot.
    "LeMond was also not afraid to take a thinly veiled shot at his fellow
    Tour winner Lance Armstrong, whose Discovery Channel team announced it
    would disband after ceasing its search for a new sponsor earlier this
    month. "I think we're fleshing out a lot of people who are leaving,"
    he told the newspaper. "I think a lot of people are leaving not
    because they can't get sponsors, but because [investigators are]
    getting serious. The guys that have been getting away with it don't
    want to be caught.""

    Quoted message said:

    Oh full bucking [censored]!

    Quoted message said:

    The reason Disco walked off is that the hysterical, lawless antidoping hysteria
    has made it impossible for them to obtain a sponsor. The situation is so insane
    that they could not in good faith even promise that they would be able to enter
    next year's Tour as a team.

    Quoted message said:

    All it takes is, what? Someone at ASO not liking something about you, or going
    with national teams or some history about Contador and they aren't invited.

    Quoted message said:

    Who's going to invest $15,000,000 into a team under the present system.

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks for helping the riders out, Greg. The calm and perspective a cooler,
    older head can provide is really going to help the sport.

    Quoted message said:

    Ron

    Discovery is largely responsible for it's own breakup. They knew there
    was already a lot of controversy flying around after the Landis
    incident. To hire a rider like Basso who had questionable reputation
    exposed Discovery to unacceptable risks. I am amazed that Bruyneel did
    not fully realize the implications of hiring Basso.- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    Yeah, but if the Puerto thing had fizzled out, Bruyneel would be
    considered a brilliant director for having hired Basso. I applaud him
    for having the courage to take an 'innocent until proven guilty'
    approach in his dealings with Basso. I doubt you agree, given your
    history of calls for lifetime bans for even first time drug
    infractions. You strike me as somewhat inflexible and a bit too
    'black and white' in your thinking.

  9. Donald Munro said:
    cyclintom said:

    Well, it's always hard to get a clear picture of what someone is like
    from headlines but I'm beginning to doubt the motivation of LeMond.

    His motivation is anything for a headline.

    Don't sell Greg short. I think that he really wants to see a clean
    sport but I don't think he understands all of the problems with trying
    to get a clean sport. The guy has been a millionaire almost since he
    was a teenager and he probably doesn't have a good perspective of
    other riders.

    I don't believe that he understands just how difficult the problem is.
    If Bill Clinton was snorting coke in the oval office just how much
    control are you going to have on guys who have to work a really [censored]
    poor job if they don't do good at cycling?

  10. "Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted post said:
    Hobbes@spnb&s.com said:

    On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:41:49 -0700, "[email hidden]"
    <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    >(http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/aug07/aug26news)

    Quoted message said:

    >Greg makes some interesting suggestions, but I have problems with some
    >of them.

    Quoted message said:

    >Not really sure how much good this would do. After all they can always
    >dope during the night or some other time. Secondly isolated from
    >whom..?? One possiblilty would be to have unauthorized people from
    >visting their hotel. This could be a bit onerous since the teams often
    >"stay at more than one hotel.
    >"keeping riders sequestered for two hours before races to eliminate
    >"unauthorized contact,"

    Quoted message said:

    Keep 'em in a windowless motel like keirin racers.

    Quoted message said:

    >Oh please Greg this is just another typical cheap shot.
    >"LeMond was also not afraid to take a thinly veiled shot at his fellow
    >Tour winner Lance Armstrong, whose Discovery Channel team announced it
    >would disband after ceasing its search for a new sponsor earlier this
    >month. "I think we're fleshing out a lot of people who are leaving,"
    >he told the newspaper. "I think a lot of people are leaving not
    >because they can't get sponsors, but because [investigators are]
    >getting serious. The guys that have been getting away with it don't
    >want to be caught.""

    Quoted message said:

    Oh full bucking [censored]!

    Quoted message said:

    The reason Disco walked off is that the hysterical, lawless antidoping
    hysteria
    has made it impossible for them to obtain a sponsor. The situation is
    so insane
    that they could not in good faith even promise that they would be able
    to enter
    next year's Tour as a team.

    Quoted message said:

    All it takes is, what? Someone at ASO not liking something about you,
    or going
    with national teams or some history about Contador and they aren't
    invited.

    Quoted message said:

    Who's going to invest $15,000,000 into a team under the present system.

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks for helping the riders out, Greg. The calm and perspective a
    cooler,
    older head can provide is really going to help the sport.

    Quoted message said:

    Ron

    Discovery is largely responsible for it's own breakup. They knew there
    was already a lot of controversy flying around after the Landis
    incident. To hire a rider like Basso who had questionable reputation
    exposed Discovery to unacceptable risks. I am amazed that Bruyneel did
    not fully realize the implications of hiring Basso.- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    Yeah, but if the Puerto thing had fizzled out, Bruyneel would be
    considered a brilliant director for having hired Basso. I applaud him
    for having the courage to take an 'innocent until proven guilty'
    approach in his dealings with Basso. I doubt you agree, given your
    history of calls for lifetime bans for even first time drug
    infractions. You strike me as somewhat inflexible and a bit too
    'black and white' in your thinking.

    Bruyneel was happy to bring on Basso because Basso is a proven contender who
    had a reputation as a doper. It would be easy to cultivate Basso's
    potential in a program that included doping, but was sophisticated enough to
    beat the controls.

  11. Scott said:
    Quoted post said:

    On Aug 27, 6:35 am, Hobbes@spnb&s.com wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:41:49 -0700, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >(http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/aug07/aug26news)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Greg makes some interesting suggestions, but I have problems with some
    >of them.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Not really sure how much good this would do. After all they can always
    >dope during the night or some other time. Secondly isolated from
    >whom..?? One possiblilty would be to have unauthorized people from
    >visting their hotel. This could be a bit onerous since the teams often
    >"stay at more than one hotel.
    >"keeping riders sequestered for two hours before races to eliminate
    >"unauthorized contact,"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Keep 'em in a windowless motel like keirin racers.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Oh please Greg this is just another typical cheap shot.
    >"LeMond was also not afraid to take a thinly veiled shot at his fellow
    >Tour winner Lance Armstrong, whose Discovery Channel team announced it
    >would disband after ceasing its search for a new sponsor earlier this
    >month. "I think we're fleshing out a lot of people who are leaving,"
    >he told the newspaper. "I think a lot of people are leaving not
    >because they can't get sponsors, but because [investigators are]
    >getting serious. The guys that have been getting away with it don't
    >want to be caught.""

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Oh full bucking [censored]!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The reason Disco walked off is that the hysterical, lawless antidoping hysteria
    has made it impossible for them to obtain a sponsor. The situation is so insane
    that they could not in good faith even promise that they would be able to enter
    next year's Tour as a team.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    All it takes is, what? Someone at ASO not liking something about you, or going
    with national teams or some history about Contador and they aren't invited.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Who's going to invest $15,000,000 into a team under the present system.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Thanks for helping the riders out, Greg. The calm and perspective a cooler,
    older head can provide is really going to help the sport.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Ron

    Quoted message said:

    Discovery is largely responsible for it's own breakup. They knew there
    was already a lot of controversy flying around after the Landis
    incident. To hire a rider like Basso who had questionable reputation
    exposed Discovery to unacceptable risks. I am amazed that Bruyneel did
    not fully realize the implications of hiring Basso.- Hide quoted text -

    Quoted message said:

    - Show quoted text -

    Yeah, but if the Puerto thing had fizzled out, Bruyneel would be
    considered a brilliant director for having hired Basso. I applaud him
    for having the courage to take an 'innocent until proven guilty'
    approach in his dealings with Basso.

    Indeed! It sure is revealing just how committed to guilty until proven
    innocent these so-called Americans really are.

  12. "Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    cyclintom said:

    Well, it's always hard to get a clear picture of what someone is like
    from headlines but I'm beginning to doubt the motivation of LeMond.

    His motivation is anything for a headline.

    I see that you and he have a lot in common.

  13. Quoted message said:

    I don't know him at all but it sure seems that he needs constant attention
    from the media. He managed to make sure that he was a central part of
    both the LA bonus arbitration and the FL doping hearing.

    What are the chances that FL would confess to Greg in a phone call after
    he already knew how Greg had represented the telephone call he had with LA
    concerning doping?

    And what are the chances that FL would not only hire someone who would make
    a phony, sick phone call to Greg, during the arbitration hearings... pretty
    darned slim. Even slimmer would be the chances that FL would overhear such a
    call and not put a stop to it immediately. And yet it happened.

    I still believe in Floyd, but none of these guys are using their full mental
    abilities (or at least I hope not!) an awful lot of the time. Maybe
    introspective reasoning is one of those things top-level athletes have to
    block out if they want to King?

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  14. "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't know him at all but it sure seems that he needs constant
    attention from the media. He managed to make sure that he was a central
    part of both the LA bonus arbitration and the FL doping hearing.

    What are the chances that FL would confess to Greg in a phone call after
    he already knew how Greg had represented the telephone call he had with
    LA concerning doping?

    And what are the chances that FL would not only hire someone who would
    make a phony, sick phone call to Greg, during the arbitration hearings...
    pretty darned slim. Even slimmer would be the chances that FL would
    overhear such a call and not put a stop to it immediately. And yet it
    happened.

    I still believe in Floyd, but none of these guys are using their full
    mental abilities (or at least I hope not!) an awful lot of the time. Maybe
    introspective reasoning is one of those things top-level athletes have to
    block out if they want to King?

    Normal mental reactions and abilities are deadened when they push themselves
    to ignore immense amounts of pain for hours, day after day -- particularly
    in Floyd's case with that bad hip. I mean, seriously, no cyclist comes to
    mind that is a brilliant thinker. Yes some a great tacticians. Bruneel and
    Armstrong come to mind. Armstrong also, because perhaps he was forced to
    read up on his cancer, seems to have come through his career as less of an
    oaf than he might have been otherwise.

    -Tony

    Quoted message said:

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  15. Quoted post said:

    (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/aug07/aug26news )

    Greg makes some interesting suggestions, but I have problems with some
    of them.

    Greg Lemond IS a dope, and THAT is the problem. Period.
    Ro

  16. Frank Drackman said:


    What are the chances that FL would confess to Greg in a phone call after he
    already knew how Greg had represented the telephone call he had with LA
    concerning doping?


    Floyd didn't confess to Greg over the phone, but his guilt was implied:

    Greg: "If you have done something wrong, it's best to confess."
    Floyd: "What good would it do?"

  17. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Kyle Legate said:
    Frank Drackman said:


    What are the chances that FL would confess to Greg in a phone call after he
    already knew how Greg had represented the telephone call he had with LA
    concerning doping?


    Floyd didn't confess to Greg over the phone, but his guilt was implied:

    Greg: "If you have done something wrong, it's best to confess."
    Floyd: "What good would it do?"

    I'm very tetchy about reading an implied confession into that. I
    understand what you're getting at, and yes, the proper response of an
    innocent rider might be more like "I didn't do anything! What do I do
    now?"

    But I can certainly hear a despairing-but-innocent Landis saying exactly
    what he did. After all, he hadn't done anything wrong, so what good
    would it do to confess? I also don't expect clear-headed articulation in
    casual phone calls by ex-mountain bike racers. Indeed, I'd expect much
    more of a politician or a lawyer on the phone, since rhetorical skills
    and clear thinking off the cuff is pretty much part of the job
    description.

    I've certainly made bigger oral gaffes in my own life, and I'll let my
    posts here speak for my general level of literacy and clear thinking.

    You be the judge,

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  18. cyclintom said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Well, it's always hard to get a clear picture of what someone is like
    from headlines but I'm beginning to doubt the motivation of LeMond.

    Donald Munro said:
    Quoted message said:

    His motivation is anything for a headline.

    Tom Kunich said:

    I see that you and he have a lot in common.

    Bendan,
    I do anything to get a rbr headline, I may even be in line
    for a rbr Pulitzer.

  19. Scott said:
    Quoted post said:

    On Aug 27, 6:35 am, Hobbes@spnb&s.com wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:41:49 -0700, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >(http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/aug07/aug26news)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Greg makes some interesting suggestions, but I have problems with some
    >of them.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Not really sure how much good this would do. After all they can always
    >dope during the night or some other time. Secondly isolated from
    >whom..?? One possiblilty would be to have unauthorized people from
    >visting their hotel. This could be a bit onerous since the teams often
    >"stay at more than one hotel.
    >"keeping riders sequestered for two hours before races to eliminate
    >"unauthorized contact,"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Keep 'em in a windowless motel like keirin racers.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Oh please Greg this is just another typical cheap shot.
    >"LeMond was also not afraid to take a thinly veiled shot at his fellow
    >Tour winner Lance Armstrong, whose Discovery Channel team announced it
    >would disband after ceasing its search for a new sponsor earlier this
    >month. "I think we're fleshing out a lot of people who are leaving,"
    >he told the newspaper. "I think a lot of people are leaving not
    >because they can't get sponsors, but because [investigators are]
    >getting serious. The guys that have been getting away with it don't
    >want to be caught.""

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Oh full bucking [censored]!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The reason Disco walked off is that the hysterical, lawless antidoping hysteria
    has made it impossible for them to obtain a sponsor. The situation is so insane
    that they could not in good faith even promise that they would be able to enter
    next year's Tour as a team.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    All it takes is, what? Someone at ASO not liking something about you, or going
    with national teams or some history about Contador and they aren't invited.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Who's going to invest $15,000,000 into a team under the present system.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Thanks for helping the riders out, Greg. The calm and perspective a cooler,
    older head can provide is really going to help the sport.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Ron

    Quoted message said:

    Discovery is largely responsible for it's own breakup. They knew there
    was already a lot of controversy flying around after the Landis
    incident. To hire a rider like Basso who had questionable reputation
    exposed Discovery to unacceptable risks. I am amazed that Bruyneel did
    not fully realize the implications of hiring Basso.- Hide quoted text -

    Quoted message said:

    - Show quoted text -

    One has to look at the overall situation and how it affects the teams
    reputation. Sponsors are fed up and very leary of being tainted with
    dopers. In my mind hiring Basso posed a unacceptable risk to the
    teams reputation.

    Quoted message said:

    Yeah, but if the Puerto thing had fizzled out, Bruyneel would be
    considered a brilliant director for having hired Basso. I applaud him
    for having the courage to take an 'innocent until proven guilty'
    approach in his dealings with Basso. I doubt you agree, given your
    history of calls for lifetime bans for even first time drug
    infractions. You strike me as somewhat inflexible and a bit too
    'black and white' in your thinking.

  20. Quoted post said:

    One has to look at the overall situation and how it affects the teams
    reputation. Sponsors are fed up and very leary of being tainted with
    dopers. In my mind hiring Basso posed a unacceptable risk to the
    teams reputation.

    It's a witch hunt.

    Those who wanted to see the building burned along with the witches are
    having their day.

    If the smoke ever clears, we'll go back to bad rules and bad
    enforcement.

    The riders, and the sport itself, are pawns. And scapegoats.

    Onward Christian Soldiers! --D-y

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