c2c

FabJack said:

I am considering doing the c2c next spring, with the possibility of the
Reivers Route as a return. Gives me enough time to get into training!!

As I start to put flesh on the plan I think I'd like to do it self
contained and camp along the way.

My one main concern is my bike. At the moment I have a mountain bike
with no attachments to take paniers etc.

I realise that I aught to consider buying a new bike for the trip.

I would like to do the off road bits if at all possible.

Any suggestions at to what sort of beast I should be looking for?

I will be doing the C2C in 24hrs for a charity event next month. I
planned to do it on my rigid bike which is more than capable, only as
I did longer training rides my arms began to ache after 30 miles off
road with all the shaking through the front of the bike.

Quoted message said:

Price? £500 - £1000 for the bike and paniers/luggage.

If you have that much money available then great. But it's not
necessary to spend that much on a bike for the C2C. I just bought a
GT Aggressor XC1 which is £500 and it's a great bike but a bike of
lesser spec would do the C2C.

FabJack said:

I am considering doing the c2c next spring, with the possibility of the
Reivers Route as a return. Gives me enough time to get into training!!

As I start to put flesh on the plan I think I'd like to do it self
contained and camp along the way.

My one main concern is my bike. At the moment I have a mountain bike
with no attachments to take paniers etc.

I realise that I aught to consider buying a new bike for the trip.

I would like to do the off road bits if at all possible.

Any suggestions at to what sort of beast I should be looking for?

Price? £500 - £1000 for the bike and paniers/luggage.

REgards

Just got back from doing the C2C last Friday. Stick with a mountain
bike is what my girlfriend and I did. Only change was to change to a
slicker tyre. Specialized nimbus Armadillo was what they had nearby.
Made an enormous difference to rolling along the road and there is
lots of road. Also made the off road sections more fun than they would
have been otherwise.
I am no fit cyclist by any means but am fitter on the bike than my
girlfriend so we went for a trailer. Got the Edinburgh Cycles trailer
but from ebay for £100 and just needs you to change the rear skewer to
attach it. We did no specific training (although had planned to) and
previous to starting had only done 20 miles in one day. First day was
37 (we did it in 5 days) and we camped so also took tent, sleeping
mats, cooking stuff etc.
Point is we spent most of the day everyday on the bikes, plodded along
and loved it, absolutely loved it. Fantastic views back along the
route and great satisfaction from looking down on where you have been.
The trailer let me take the strain and being a one wheeler made most
bike gates and passing walkers etc easier. Mountain bike with slicks
gave the gear range we needed to get up the hills (still finished off
a set of cleats with some pushing up the hills though).

Whatever you decide to do though make sure you do it. We are already
thinking of going somewhere flatter for more distance/more time to do
stuff during the day, longer trip with two days in each spot for sight
seeing/other holiday things but make sure you do it. Camping or B&B,
whatever, we loved it, absolutely loved it!

Tracker.

tracker1972 said:

Just got back from doing the C2C last Friday. Stick with a mountain
bike is what my girlfriend and I did. Only change was to change to a
slicker tyre. Specialized nimbus Armadillo was what they had nearby.
Made an enormous difference to rolling along the road and there is
lots of road. Also made the off road sections more fun than they would
have been otherwise.
I am no fit cyclist by any means but am fitter on the bike than my
girlfriend so we went for a trailer. Got the Edinburgh Cycles trailer
but from ebay for £100 and just needs you to change the rear skewer to
attach it. We did no specific training (although had planned to) and
previous to starting had only done 20 miles in one day. First day was
37 (we did it in 5 days) and we camped so also took tent, sleeping
mats, cooking stuff etc.
Point is we spent most of the day everyday on the bikes, plodded along
and loved it, absolutely loved it. Fantastic views back along the
route and great satisfaction from looking down on where you have been.
The trailer let me take the strain and being a one wheeler made most
bike gates and passing walkers etc easier. Mountain bike with slicks
gave the gear range we needed to get up the hills (still finished off
a set of cleats with some pushing up the hills though).

Whatever you decide to do though make sure you do it. We are already
thinking of going somewhere flatter for more distance/more time to do
stuff during the day, longer trip with two days in each spot for sight
seeing/other holiday things but make sure you do it. Camping or B&B,
whatever, we loved it, absolutely loved it!

Thanks for the RR, quite inspirational - reading these always makes me
want to be out their doing the same sort of thing. Just bought a MTB
tandem, and would quite like to try C2C on it next year, maybe
returning via the Reivers Route (the logistics of finishing somewhere
other than you start with a tandem can be difficult, not many train
companies are tandem friendly).

I guess if you can get through on a single + trailer, we could make it
on a tandem. We'd probably stay in B&Bs, to cut the luggage down.

Rob

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tracker1972 said:

Thanks for the RR, quite inspirational - reading these always makes me
want to be out their doing the same sort of thing. Just bought a MTB
tandem, and would quite like to try C2C on it next year, maybe
returning via the Reivers Route (the logistics of finishing somewhere
other than you start with a tandem can be difficult, not many train
companies are tandem friendly).

I guess if you can get through on a single + trailer, we could make it
on a tandem. We'd probably stay in B&Bs, to cut the luggage down.

We did c2c using the road options where appropriate, returning via the
Reivers - IMO it makes for a much better ride than the c2c alone. We were on
our road tandem (our companions were on traditional touring solos), staying
at a mix of B+B and hostels.

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

We did c2c using the road options where appropriate, returning via the
Reivers - IMO it makes for a much better ride than the c2c alone. We
were on our road tandem (our companions were on traditional touring
solos), staying at a mix of B+B and hostels.

I did the reverse and depending where you are coming from I think its a
better option. Newcastle has much better train connections so is a
better start point than the west coast and IMO the C2C is a more
interesting ride than the Reivers and better done west to east. Which
ends up with doing the Reivers westwards from Newcastle then back
eastwards on the C2C. YMMV.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Quoted message said:

tracker1972 said:

Just got back from doing the C2C last Friday. Stick with a mountain
bike is what my girlfriend and I did. Only change was to change to a
slicker tyre. Specialized nimbus Armadillo was what they had nearby.
Made an enormous difference to rolling along the road and there is
lots of road. Also made the off road sections more fun than they would
have been otherwise.
I am no fit cyclist by any means but am fitter on the bike than my
girlfriend so we went for a trailer. Got the Edinburgh Cycles trailer
but from ebay for £100 and just needs you to change the rear skewer to
attach it. We did no specific training (although had planned to) and
previous to starting had only done 20 miles in one day. First day was
37 (we did it in 5 days) and we camped so also took tent, sleeping
mats, cooking stuff etc.
Point is we spent most of the day everyday on the bikes, plodded along
and loved it, absolutely loved it. Fantastic views back along the
route and great satisfaction from looking down on where you have been.
The trailer let me take the strain and being a one wheeler made most
bike gates and passing walkers etc easier. Mountain bike with slicks
gave the gear range we needed to get up the hills (still finished off
a set of cleats with some pushing up the hills though).

Quoted message said:

Whatever you decide to do though make sure you do it. We are already
thinking of going somewhere flatter for more distance/more time to do
stuff during the day, longer trip with two days in each spot for sight
seeing/other holiday things but make sure you do it. Camping or B&B,
whatever, we loved it, absolutely loved it!

Thanks for the RR, quite inspirational - reading these always makes me
want to be out their doing the same sort of thing. Just bought a MTB
tandem, and would quite like to try C2C on it next year, maybe
returning via the Reivers Route (the logistics of finishing somewhere
other than you start with a tandem can be difficult, not many train
companies are tandem friendly).

I guess if you can get through on a single + trailer, we could make it
on a tandem. We'd probably stay in B&Bs, to cut the luggage down.

Rob

I would love to watch your faces coming down through Whinlatter Woods
on a tandem! Knowing I was in charge it was an experience on non-MTB
tyres, knowing I had someone behind me with no steering or brakes
would certainly focus the mind, and possibly theirs! There are several
companies that will transport you back to the start with minibus/
trailer combo. If you plan far enough ahead you can get on with an
existing supported trip for £18 each I think from Newcastle to
Whitehaven I think it was. We nearly used a taxi firm that would shift
bikes but was going to be £120 for the two of us. Would have been the
same with more people if that is a possibility? In the end a heroic
figure offered to pick us up and take us back, an 8 hour round trip
for them so thanks again Dad :-)

Tracker.

tracker1972 said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the RR, quite inspirational - reading these always makes me
want to be out their doing the same sort of thing. Just bought a MTB
tandem, and would quite like to try C2C on it next year, maybe
returning via the Reivers Route (the logistics of finishing somewhere
other than you start with a tandem can be difficult, not many train
companies are tandem friendly).

I would love to watch your faces coming down through Whinlatter Woods
on a tandem! Knowing I was in charge it was an experience on non-MTB
tyres, knowing I had someone behind me with no steering or brakes
would certainly focus the mind, and possibly theirs!

Hmm, just looked at that on the map, it does look interesting. And
there are braking issues on a tandem you don't have to worry about on
singles.

Quoted message said:

There are several
companies that will transport you back to the start with minibus/
trailer combo. If you plan far enough ahead you can get on with an
existing supported trip for £18 each I think from Newcastle to
Whitehaven I think it was.

Sounds good value, thanks. Doing C2C is just a concept at the moment,
I haven't done any serious research yet. C2C on its own looks maybe a
little short for us but C2C plus Reivers a little long. Anyway, we'll
see.

Rob

leandr42 said:

Hmm, just looked at that on the map, it does look interesting. And there
are braking issues on a tandem you don't have to worry about on singles.

Not as bad as you might think. Unlike a single you are not going to endo
on a tandem so you can brake much harder with the front brake while there
is also minimal weight transfer off the back wheel so you can brake
equally effectively with that. Net result going down hill is you have
twice the weight approx and twice the braking approx dissipated on twice
the number of braked wheels. Also without the risk of an endo, you can
go downhill faster on a tandem because of its stability.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

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Quoted message said:

Hmm, just looked at that on the map, it does look interesting. And
there are braking issues on a tandem you don't have to worry about on
singles.

Against that, provided you've got the mechanical ones sorted (viz, have
something powerful enough and maybe a drag brake), braking on a tandem is
dead easy : Pull the levers, stop. No need to hang [censored] over saddle or
anything like that when going down steep stuff.

cheers,
clive

Tony Raven said:

leandr42 said:

Hmm, just looked at that on the map, it does look interesting. And there
are braking issues on a tandem you don't have to worry about on singles.

Not as bad as you might think. Unlike a single you are not going to endo
on a tandem so you can brake much harder with the front brake while there
is also minimal weight transfer off the back wheel so you can brake
equally effectively with that. Net result going down hill is you have
twice the weight approx and twice the braking approx dissipated on twice
the number of braked wheels. Also without the risk of an endo, you can
go downhill faster on a tandem because of its stability.

Thanks for the reassurance, but I still feel a bit worried. It's a
blow out from overheating that bothers me - really don't fancy that
happening on the front wheel of a tandem at speed going down a steep
hill... Plan is to rely on the back brake for controlling speed and
just use the front for actually stopping (our tandem just has two rim
brakes). If the back brake won't control the speed, then we'll stop
and check rim temperatures. I've had a back wheel blow at speed on a
hill on a single (for other reasons) and it wasn't really a problem,
more surprising than anything else.

Quite stimulating getting to grips with a tandem - every now and then
I forget I can't flick the wheels round a pot hole the way I can a
single, you have to set the line up a bit earlier. Quite pleased
yesterday to get it through a 6" gap at the end of some speed bumps
without mishap. Remembering when to tell stoker what you are doing is
another challenge - some thing are obvious, but it seemed so obvious
we were stopping in the middle of nowhere on a country road for road
works with traffic lights that it didn't seem worth mentioning.

Rob

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the reassurance, but I still feel a bit worried. It's a
blow out from overheating that bothers me - really don't fancy that
happening on the front wheel of a tandem at speed going down a steep
hill...

I had that explosively on a mtb, on a steep hill on the c2c - not fun!

pk

leandr42 said:

Thanks for the reassurance, but I still feel a bit worried. It's a blow
out from overheating that bothers me - really don't fancy that happening
on the front wheel of a tandem at speed going down a steep hill... Plan
is to rely on the back brake for controlling speed and just use the
front for actually stopping (our tandem just has two rim brakes). If the
back brake won't control the speed, then we'll stop and check rim
temperatures. I've had a back wheel blow at speed on a hill on a single
(for other reasons) and it wasn't really a problem, more surprising than
anything else.

If you are doing a lot of long downhills consider fitting an Arai drum
brake to supplement the rim brakes. They are intended to handle high
thermal loads and are not so much for stopping as acting in continuous
drag mode to keep the speed down. I have ours operated from a gripshift
fitted to a Minoura Spacebar.

If its any consolation I had an explosive blow out of the front tube
(sidewall failure of the tyre) one the tandem on a steepish gravel
downhill in Finland. It wasn't that difficult to bring it to a stop
using the back brake only.

Quoted message said:

Quite stimulating getting to grips with a tandem - every now and then I
forget I can't flick the wheels round a pot hole the way I can a single,
you have to set the line up a bit earlier.

Yep, tandems go through obstacle rather than over them ;-) I have seen
a tandem bunnyhopped by a very together team but its probably beyond most
people.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Thanks for the reassurance, but I still feel a bit worried. It's a
blow out from overheating that bothers me - really don't fancy that
happening on the front wheel of a tandem at speed going down a steep
hill... Plan is to rely on the back brake for controlling speed and
just use the front for actually stopping (our tandem just has two rim
brakes). If the back brake won't control the speed, then we'll stop
and check rim temperatures. I've had a back wheel blow at speed on a
hill on a single (for other reasons) and it wasn't really a problem,
more surprising than anything else.

Controlling speed with just the one brake is a poor plan - it's entirely
possible to find a hill which would cook one rim but would be safe with two.

Experience helps here, but things to do include:

Sit up and let the wind slow you down.
Go quickly if you can - more wind resistance.
Dragging the brakes is bad, although I'll do it sometimes.

Basically you want to lose energy in the form of heat. The hotter the rims
are, the more they'll lose per unit time. So getting them really quite hot
then letting them alone for a bit could well actually result in more heat
dissipation than dragging them while warm. Alternating brakes can work for
this too.

Before you've had experience, probably sensible to check for heat on the way
down and stop if necessary. Otherwise I'd agree on using the back more than
the front, but do use the front and don't be afraid to give it some welly.

And I've never actually blown tyres off, just holed them.

cheers,
clive

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:24:25 +0000, tracker1972 wrote:

we loved it, absolutely loved it!

Quoted message said:

Tracker.

Thanks for that Tracker.

So it seems a mountain bike is the way to go, not into tandems, need
someone else to help peddle!

Thanks for the general advice, back to the planning.

Tony Raven said:

If you are doing a lot of long downhills consider fitting an Arai drum
brake to supplement the rim brakes. They are intended to handle high
thermal loads and are not so much for stopping as acting in continuous
drag mode to keep the speed down. I have ours operated from a gripshift
fitted to a Minoura Spacebar.

Yes, I've heard of them. But tandeming is strictly a budget project at
the moment - my partner sees it more as having fun for a year then get
rid of it thing. Our tandem rides very well, so any changes are being
kept to a minimum.

Quoted message said:

If its any consolation I had an explosive blow out of the front tube
(sidewall failure of the tyre) one the tandem on a steepish gravel
downhill in Finland. It wasn't that difficult to bring it to a stop
using the back brake only.

That's much more reassuring. It's not the stopping I'm worried about
so much as total loss of control. I don't know if that's what happens,
but I'd rather not find out.

Quoted message said:

Yep, tandems go through obstacle rather than over them ;-) I have seen
a tandem bunnyhopped by a very together team but its probably beyond most
people.

Wow, I'd like to see that. For some reason I wondered about
bunnyhopping, then I just thought, no, don't be ridiculous...

Rob

Clive George said:

Controlling speed with just the one brake is a poor plan - it's entirely
possible to find a hill which would cook one rim but would be safe with two.

Experience helps here, but things to do include:

Sit up and let the wind slow you down.
Go quickly if you can - more wind resistance.
Dragging the brakes is bad, although I'll do it sometimes.

Basically you want to lose energy in the form of heat. The hotter the rims
are, the more they'll lose per unit time. So getting them really quite hot
then letting them alone for a bit could well actually result in more heat
dissipation than dragging them while warm. Alternating brakes can work for
this too.

Before you've had experience, probably sensible to check for heat on the way
down and stop if necessary. Otherwise I'd agree on using the back more than
the front, but do use the front and don't be afraid to give it some welly.

Thanks for the advice, I've still got a lot to learn. I know about
using the brakes in bursts to give the rims chance to cool. Also air
braking - I started to wonder if you could get a parachute for
emergencies, like the ones for planes landing on air craft carriers.

More seriously, one of the reasons I'm concerned (apart from general
lack of experience) is that our tandem has 26" wheels which I read
have 19% less ability to absorb heat than 27" wheels (they are
actually nearly 3" smaller, because the sizing assumes a much thicker
tyre.

Rob

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

Controlling speed with just the one brake is a poor plan - it's entirely
possible to find a hill which would cook one rim but would be safe with
two.

Experience helps here, but things to do include:

Sit up and let the wind slow you down.
Go quickly if you can - more wind resistance.
Dragging the brakes is bad, although I'll do it sometimes.

Basically you want to lose energy in the form of heat. The hotter the
rims
are, the more they'll lose per unit time. So getting them really quite
hot
then letting them alone for a bit could well actually result in more heat
dissipation than dragging them while warm. Alternating brakes can work
for
this too.

Before you've had experience, probably sensible to check for heat on the
way
down and stop if necessary. Otherwise I'd agree on using the back more
than
the front, but do use the front and don't be afraid to give it some
welly.

Thanks for the advice, I've still got a lot to learn. I know about
using the brakes in bursts to give the rims chance to cool. Also air
braking - I started to wonder if you could get a parachute for
emergencies, like the ones for planes landing on air craft carriers.

More seriously, one of the reasons I'm concerned (apart from general
lack of experience) is that our tandem has 26" wheels which I read
have 19% less ability to absorb heat than 27" wheels (they are
actually nearly 3" smaller, because the sizing assumes a much thicker
tyre.

Rob

Why do you need to use 2 wheels?

http://www.unicycle.uk.com/c2c.htm

Andy

AndyN said:

Why do you need to use 2 wheels?

http://www.unicycle.uk.com/c2c.htm

Well on a tandem, we'll have the same number of wheels per rider as a
unicycle...

Seriously, I impressed, don't think I could do that.

Rob

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Sounds good value, thanks. Doing C2C is just a concept at the moment,
I haven't done any serious research yet. C2C on its own looks maybe a
little short for us but C2C plus Reivers a little long. Anyway, we'll
see.

Rob

You might consider the Hadrians Cycle route for the return journey and stop
at Bowness upon Solway after setting off from South Shields. It's a nice
short crossing (about 100 miles) and you can turn back for Carlisle once
you've reached the coast.

Vernon