External bearings

Sandy said:

Just to start someone counting, adding to anecdotal history.
FSA SLK MegaExo - someone put marbles in the BB.
Lasted less than 4000km.
Since it's there, what is the best cure?
Replacing the bearings in the casings, or replacing the cup-bearing
assembly.

Phil Wood makes some great replacement bearings for these and other
external cups. Long lastingf, well made, unlike it seems the FSA
bearings.

Quoted message said:

And, can someone offer a grade, size and good manufacturer reference for the
bearings?

Thanks in advance.
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.

On Jul 28, 8:27 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

Just to start someone counting, adding to anecdotal history.
FSA SLK MegaExo - someone put marbles in the BB.
Lasted less than 4000km.
Since it's there, what is the best cure?
Replacing the bearings in the casings, or replacing the cup-bearing
assembly.

Phil Wood makes some great replacement bearings for these and other
external cups. Long lastingf, well made, unlike it seems the FSA
bearings.

Quoted message said:

And, can someone offer a grade, size and good manufacturer reference for the
bearings?

Quoted message said:

Thanks in advance.
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

Quoted message said:

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'll second that. Phil will be your best choice when it comes to
durability. Make sure you keep the plastic covers since phil only
supplies the bearings.

steve

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
steve <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

On Jul 28, 8:27 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

Just to start someone counting, adding to anecdotal history.
FSA SLK MegaExo - someone put marbles in the BB.
Lasted less than 4000km.
Since it's there, what is the best cure?
Replacing the bearings in the casings, or replacing the cup-bearing
assembly.

Phil Wood makes some great replacement bearings for these and other
external cups. Long lastingf, well made, unlike it seems the FSA
bearings.

Quoted message said:

And, can someone offer a grade, size and good manufacturer
reference for the bearings?

Quoted message said:

Thanks in advance.
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

Quoted message said:

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'll second that. Phil will be your best choice when it comes to
durability. Make sure you keep the plastic covers since phil only
supplies the bearings.

steve

Thanks, both of you, but I wasn't aware that Phil made the bearings, or does
he?
He doesn't get them from a manufacturer?
Ordering from "Phil" may not be the ideal thing from where I sit.
Any other leads?
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Sandy said:

Just to start someone counting, adding to anecdotal history.
FSA SLK MegaExo - someone put marbles in the BB.
Lasted less than 4000km.
Since it's there, what is the best cure?
Replacing the bearings in the casings, or replacing the cup-bearing
assembly.
And, can someone offer a grade, size and good manufacturer reference for the
bearings?

Thanks in advance.

first things first - see if there's a reason for this. check the bb
facings for parallelism and have them refinished if necessary. [that
was the great thing about the shimano bb cartridge system - the bb
needed minimal prep.]

regarding bearings, do they have a number etched into the metal facing
or on the seal? something like 6901-2rs or whatever? if so, you should
have a multitude of industrial supply houses able to sell you new
bearings. go for a good quality euro or usa or japanese manufacturer.
avoid the cheap chinese stuff which fsa use as oem. timken, [censored], nsk,
skf, etc. are great names. if you visit the supply store, take the old
bearings with you to show them.

Sandy said:

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
steve <[email hidden]> a r�fl�chi, et puis a d�clar� :

Quoted message said:

On Jul 28, 8:27 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Jul 28, 3:50 am, "Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Just to start someone counting, adding to anecdotal history.
> FSA SLK MegaExo - someone put marbles in the BB.
> Lasted less than 4000km.
> Since it's there, what is the best cure?
> Replacing the bearings in the casings, or replacing the cup-bearing
> assembly.
Phil Wood makes some great replacement bearings for these and other
external cups. Long lastingf, well made, unlike it seems the FSA
bearings.

> And, can someone offer a grade, size and good manufacturer
> reference for the bearings?
> Thanks in advance.
> --
> Sandy
> Verneuil-sur-Seine
> *******
> La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
> il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'�quilibre.
> -- Einstein, A.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I'll second that. Phil will be your best choice when it comes to
durability. Make sure you keep the plastic covers since phil only
supplies the bearings.

steve

Thanks, both of you, but I wasn't aware that Phil made the bearings, or does
he?

he doesn't. he does however spec the grade, lube and seals, for what
that's worth. a decent manufacturer of the same spec will be just as good.

Quoted message said:

He doesn't get them from a manufacturer?
Ordering from "Phil" may not be the ideal thing from where I sit.
Any other leads?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Just to start someone counting, adding to anecdotal history.
> FSA SLK MegaExo - someone put marbles in the BB.
> Lasted less than 4000km.
> Since it's there, what is the best cure?
> Replacing the bearings in the casings, or replacing the cup-bearing
> assembly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Phil Wood makes some great replacement bearings for these and other
external cups. Long lastingf, well made, unlike it seems the FSA
bearings.

Quoted message said:

steve <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> And, can someone offer a grade, size and good manufacturer
> reference for the bearings?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll second that. Phil will be your best choice when it comes to
durability. Make sure you keep the plastic covers since phil only
supplies the bearings.

Sandy said:

Thanks, both of you, but I wasn't aware that Phil made the bearings, or does
he?
He doesn't get them from a manufacturer?
Ordering from "Phil" may not be the ideal thing from where I sit.
Any other leads?

Phil has always specified the bearing tolerance range from their vendor
then filled the cartridges with Phil grease. Good history of
consistently high quality and long life.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
A Muzi <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> "Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> Just to start someone counting, adding to anecdotal history.
>> FSA SLK MegaExo - someone put marbles in the BB.
>> Lasted less than 4000km.
>> Since it's there, what is the best cure?
>> Replacing the bearings in the casings, or replacing the
>> cup-bearing assembly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Phil Wood makes some great replacement bearings for these and other
> external cups. Long lastingf, well made, unlike it seems the FSA
> bearings.

Quoted message said:

steve <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

>> And, can someone offer a grade, size and good manufacturer
>> reference for the bearings?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll second that. Phil will be your best choice when it comes to
durability. Make sure you keep the plastic covers since phil only
supplies the bearings.

Sandy said:

Thanks, both of you, but I wasn't aware that Phil made the bearings,
or does he?
He doesn't get them from a manufacturer?
Ordering from "Phil" may not be the ideal thing from where I sit.
Any other leads?

Phil has always specified the bearing tolerance range from their
vendor then filled the cartridges with Phil grease. Good history of
consistently high quality and long life.

Again, Mr Muzi, I am grateful and now more fully informed.
However, it could just be a mite easier to get one locally, in France.
I had two tubes of Phil green long ago, and did like the results.

--
Sandy

Ce n'est pas que j'ai peur de la mort.
Je veux seulement ne pas être là
quand elle arrivera.

jim beam said:

Sandy said:

Just to start someone counting, adding to anecdotal history.
FSA SLK MegaExo - someone put marbles in the BB.
Lasted less than 4000km.
Since it's there, what is the best cure?
Replacing the bearings in the casings, or replacing the cup-bearing
assembly.
And, can someone offer a grade, size and good manufacturer reference for the
bearings?

Thanks in advance.

first things first - see if there's a reason for this. check the bb
facings for parallelism and have them refinished if necessary. [that
was the great thing about the shimano bb cartridge system - the bb
needed minimal prep.]

This is borne out by the FSA manual:

"Ensure that the BB shell ends are faced and square and
clean from paint"

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/downloads/MegaExo%20BB%20Carbon%20Inst%20rev%204-07%20PDF.pdf

Quoted message said:

regarding bearings, do they have a number etched into the metal facing
or on the seal? something like 6901-2rs or whatever? if so, you should
have a multitude of industrial supply houses able to sell you new
bearings.

The cartridge bearing number for FSA Mega Exo is 5805-2RS (inner
diameter 25mm, outer diameter 37mm, width 7mm) . There are
innumerable sources for these online and locally, both bearing and
bicycle retailers. The price/quality ranges from very low for the
cheap stainless that come stock from FSA, higher for stainless ABEC 5,
and much higher for ceramic ABEC 7. Choose your poison. If don't
want to get your frame bb threads faced, buy 10 on e-bay for $17.00 US
and they should keep you in business for years.
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-6805-2RS-Ball-Bearings-25mm-x-37mm-NEW-LOT_W0QQitemZ260123599965QQihZ016QQcategoryZ42310QQcmdZViewItem

Then of course you have to remove the old and install the new.

As I mentioned in another thread, that is not so cheap and easy. You
need a Park BBT-9 or an FSA spanner to get the cups off
http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=estore&taxid=228&pid=404
http://search.smartbikeparts.com/page.cfm?PageID=53&action=details&sku=TL4592

You need to pry of the bearing cover without cracking or breaking it.
If you do, buy a bag from FSA @ $3.00 US/ea
http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=estore&taxid=228&pid=398

You need to remove the bearings, either with the right tool
http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=estore&taxid=228&pid=398

or the low tech jury rig approach: fix the cups in a wooden vice, and
whack the cartridge with a rubber mallet and a 27.2 mm seatpost (which
in narrow enough to fit into the cup and is wide enough to safely
dislodge the 25mm i.d. cartridge).

Install the new ones either with the right tool above, or the rubber
mallet.

Next hint. If you have carbon cranks, ABSOLUTELY USE LOCKTITE 641 on
the crank splines as instructed in the manual, as well as blue
locktite on the crank bolt. That way you can get the crank to stay
snugly on without binding the new bearings you just installed. The
slightest extra torque from the crank bolt will noticeably impede the
crank rotation.

Doug Taylor said:

The cartridge bearing number for FSA Mega Exo is 5805-2RS (inner
diameter 25mm, outer diameter 37mm, width 7mm) .

Typo! 6805-2RS

Doug Taylor said:

If you have carbon cranks, ABSOLUTELY USE LOCKTITE 641 on
the crank splines as instructed in the manual, as well as blue
locktite on the crank bolt. That way you can get the crank to stay
snugly on without binding the new bearings you just installed. The
slightest extra torque from the crank bolt will noticeably impede the
crank rotation.

Mmmm, hokey....

Chalo

steve said:

On Jul 28, 8:27 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Jul 28, 3:50 am, "Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just to start someone counting, adding to anecdotal history.
FSA SLK MegaExo - someone put marbles in the BB.
Lasted less than 4000km.
Since it's there, what is the best cure?
Replacing the bearings in the casings, or replacing the cup-bearing
assembly.

Quoted message said:

Phil Wood makes some great replacement bearings for these and other
external cups. Long lastingf, well made, unlike it seems the FSA
bearings.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And, can someone offer a grade, size and good manufacturer reference for the
bearings?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks in advance.
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

I'll second that. Phil will be your best choice when it comes to
durability. Make sure you keep the plastic covers since phil only
supplies the bearings.

steve

No Phil has the plastic covers as well.

Chalo said:

Doug Taylor said:

If you have carbon cranks, ABSOLUTELY USE LOCKTITE 641 on
the crank splines as instructed in the manual, as well as blue
locktite on the crank bolt. That way you can get the crank to stay
snugly on without binding the new bearings you just installed. The
slightest extra torque from the crank bolt will noticeably impede the
crank rotation.

Mmmm, hokey....

Chalo

agree..installed lots of FSA and other external cranks..never have
used loctite on any crank..never had one fall off or bind up on a
properly prepped frame.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Chalo said:

Doug Taylor said:

If you have carbon cranks, ABSOLUTELY USE LOCKTITE 641 on
the crank splines as instructed in the manual, as well as blue
locktite on the crank bolt. That way you can get the crank to stay
snugly on without binding the new bearings you just installed. The
slightest extra torque from the crank bolt will noticeably impede the
crank rotation.

Mmmm, hokey....

Chalo

agree..installed lots of FSA and other external cranks..never have
used loctite on any crank..never had one fall off or bind up on a
properly prepped frame.

Then why does FSA supply the locktite 641 in the freaking box with
their new carbon Mega Exo cranks, specifically advise in the
installation manual NO grease on the splines, and application of the
641 on the splines before installing the crank?

They did NOT 2 years ago when I bought my first set, and after much
frustration with loose vs. over tight cranks, I get it. I'm sorry,
but it is fact; I could care less whether you think so. A "properly
prepped" FSA Carbon crank requires locktite 641. I suspect you one
of those know-it-alls who are above reading manuals.

I've installed and reinstalled these cranks on both my bikes many,
many times. If you over torque the crank bolt in the SLIGHTEST
increment over just barely snug, the bearings bind. It has nothing to
do with a "properly prepped frame." My threads are faced, my bearings
are clean and greased, the cups are properly installed. If you torque
the crank bolt just barley snug without the locktite, your cranks will
come loose after a few miles. As I said, I also use blue locktite on
the bolt just to make sure they don't, though the 641 on the splines
should do the trick. If you torque past just barely snug, your
bearings will bind and your crank will not turn smoothly.

Sandy, if you are wrenching your own Mega Exo cranks, take heed,
follow the manual, and don't listen to this blowhard.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

I'll second that. Phil will be your best choice when it comes to
durability. Make sure you keep the plastic covers since phil only
supplies the bearings.

steve

No Phil has the plastic covers as well.

More [censored] from the know-it-all. Phil Woods supplies the bearings,
only. The 2RS in 6805-2RS means two rubber seals; I suppose that is
what you mean. If you search online, you can also find 6805-zz, which
are sealed with stainless covers. And you can find many bearings as
good as and cheaper than Phil Wood.

The only supplier of FSA plastic bearing covers is FSA:

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=estore&taxid=228&pid=398

Doug Taylor said:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:59:16 -0000, Qui si parla Campagnolo

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll second that. Phil will be your best choice when it comes to
durability. Make sure you keep the plastic covers since phil only
supplies the bearings.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

steve

Quoted message said:

No Phil has the plastic covers as well.

More [censored] from the know-it-all. Phil Woods supplies the bearings,
only. The 2RS in 6805-2RS means two rubber seals; I suppose that is
what you mean. If you search online, you can also find 6805-zz, which
are sealed with stainless covers. And you can find many bearings as
good as and cheaper than Phil Wood.

The only supplier of FSA plastic bearing covers is FSA:

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=estore&taxid=228&pid=398

I guess those plastic covers I have for Phil external bearings, that I
got from Phil are imaginary..ok....

Sandy said:

Dans le message denews:[email hidden],
steve <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

On Jul 28, 8:27 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Jul 28, 3:50 am, "Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Just to start someone counting, adding to anecdotal history.
> FSA SLK MegaExo - someone put marbles in the BB.
> Lasted less than 4000km.
> Since it's there, what is the best cure?
> Replacing the bearings in the casings, or replacing the cup-bearing
> assembly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Phil Wood makes some great replacement bearings for these and other
external cups. Long lastingf, well made, unlike it seems the FSA
bearings.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> And, can someone offer a grade, size and good manufacturer
> reference for the bearings?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Thanks in advance.
> --
> Sandy
> Verneuil-sur-Seine
> *******

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
> il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
> -- Einstein, A.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

I'll second that. Phil will be your best choice when it comes to
durability. Make sure you keep the plastic covers since phil only
supplies the bearings.

Quoted message said:

steve

Thanks, both of you, but I wasn't aware that Phil made the bearings, or does
he?
He doesn't get them from a manufacturer?
Ordering from "Phil" may not be the ideal thing from where I sit.
Any other leads?
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

There are businesses that sell only bearings. What I would do is break
out the calipers and get the dimensions of the bearings. I'd imagine
just about any bearings shop would them. You'd save a bundle too.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

The only supplier of FSA plastic bearing covers is FSA:

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=estore&taxid=228&pid=398

I guess those plastic covers I have for Phil external bearings, that I
got from Phil are imaginary..ok....

Maybe you as a bike shop owner can get parts from dealers that us
ordinary folk cannot get online ourselves. I have never found a
source online that provides both bearings and FSA covers - from Phil
Wood. You can, however, get both separately from many sources.

E.g.:

http://store.airbomb.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=CR3802

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=BUY_PRODUCT_STANDARD&PRODUCT.ID=2712&CATEGORY.ID=19&MODE=&TFC=TRUE

If you did get bearing AND covers from Phil Wood, two facts are beyond
dispute: Phil Wood manufactured neither the bearings nor the covers.

The company gets its bearings from bearing manufacturers, then sells
them at a mark up with the Phil Wood name on them. The point of this
thread is that the SAME quality bearings are available online directly
from bearing manufacturers at no mark up; less than half the price.

The company buys the FSA covers from FSA, and anybody in the world can
as well. For $3.00. What does Phil Wood charge you, and what do you
charge your customers for this part?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Doug Taylor wrote:
> If you have carbon cranks, ABSOLUTELY USE LOCKTITE 641 on
> the crank splines as instructed in the manual, as well as blue
> locktite on the crank bolt. That way you can get the crank to stay
> snugly on without binding the new bearings you just installed. The
> slightest extra torque from the crank bolt will noticeably impede the
> crank rotation.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Chalo said:

Mmmm, hokey....

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

agree..installed lots of FSA and other external cranks..never have
used loctite on any crank..never had one fall off or bind up on a
properly prepped frame.

Doug Taylor said:

Then why does FSA supply the locktite 641 in the freaking box with
their new carbon Mega Exo cranks, specifically advise in the
installation manual NO grease on the splines, and application of the
641 on the splines before installing the crank?

They did NOT 2 years ago when I bought my first set, and after much
frustration with loose vs. over tight cranks, I get it. I'm sorry,
but it is fact; I could care less whether you think so. A "properly
prepped" FSA Carbon crank requires locktite 641. I suspect you one
of those know-it-alls who are above reading manuals.

I've installed and reinstalled these cranks on both my bikes many,
many times. If you over torque the crank bolt in the SLIGHTEST
increment over just barely snug, the bearings bind. It has nothing to
do with a "properly prepped frame." My threads are faced, my bearings
are clean and greased, the cups are properly installed. If you torque
the crank bolt just barley snug without the locktite, your cranks will
come loose after a few miles. As I said, I also use blue locktite on
the bolt just to make sure they don't, though the 641 on the splines
should do the trick. If you torque past just barely snug, your
bearings will bind and your crank will not turn smoothly.

Sandy, if you are wrenching your own Mega Exo cranks, take heed,
follow the manual, and don't listen to this blowhard.

I think we could have just left it at "hokey". Supplying/recommending an
adhesive for this interface intimates a deeper problem . . .

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Doug Taylor wrote:
>> If you have carbon cranks, ABSOLUTELY USE LOCKTITE 641 on
>> the crank splines as instructed in the manual, as well as blue
>> locktite on the crank bolt. That way you can get the crank to stay
>> snugly on without binding the new bearings you just installed. The
>> slightest extra torque from the crank bolt will noticeably impede the
>> crank rotation.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Chalo <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Mmmm, hokey....

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

agree..installed lots of FSA and other external cranks..never have
used loctite on any crank..never had one fall off or bind up on a
properly prepped frame.

Doug Taylor said:

Then why does FSA supply the locktite 641 in the freaking box with
their new carbon Mega Exo cranks, specifically advise in the
installation manual NO grease on the splines, and application of the
641 on the splines before installing the crank?

They did NOT 2 years ago when I bought my first set, and after much
frustration with loose vs. over tight cranks, I get it. I'm sorry,
but it is fact; I could care less whether you think so. A "properly
prepped" FSA Carbon crank requires locktite 641. I suspect you one
of those know-it-alls who are above reading manuals.

I've installed and reinstalled these cranks on both my bikes many,
many times. If you over torque the crank bolt in the SLIGHTEST
increment over just barely snug, the bearings bind. It has nothing to
do with a "properly prepped frame." My threads are faced, my bearings
are clean and greased, the cups are properly installed. If you torque
the crank bolt just barley snug without the locktite, your cranks will
come loose after a few miles. As I said, I also use blue locktite on
the bolt just to make sure they don't, though the 641 on the splines
should do the trick. If you torque past just barely snug, your
bearings will bind and your crank will not turn smoothly.

Sandy, if you are wrenching your own Mega Exo cranks, take heed,
follow the manual, and don't listen to this blowhard.

I think we could have just left it at "hokey". Supplying/recommending an
adhesive for this interface intimates a deeper problem . . .

the problem is lightness. with large diameter thin wall spindles, you
get distortion at the clamping point. you can't avoid it. all you can
do is lock the componentry to prevent relative movement.