dryland training

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:IIAoi.46387$Io4.29971@edtnps89...

Quoted message said:

I have asked before, and before got nothing. I will try my luck again.

To get better at swimming, you swim more.

I know on good swimteams, they do dryland training.

I unfortunately was never on a good team. Their idea of getting better was
more lengths.

I am planning to be on a masters team in the fall, when they start up when
I am not out sailing. I would like to do some dryland training from now
until I get on a team, and also when I am sailing.

Any positive suggestions would be appreciated.
Any negative comments will be expected.

Thanks

Micheal

1. Unplug your computer
2. Throw it in the dustbin.
3. Stop bulshitting about swimming.
3. Go swimming
4. Repeat 3. Then move to 4.

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:IIAoi.46387$Io4.29971@edtnps89...

Quoted message said:

I have asked before, and before got nothing. I will try my luck again.

To get better at swimming, you swim more.

I know on good swimteams, they do dryland training.

I unfortunately was never on a good team. Their idea of getting better
was more lengths.

I am planning to be on a masters team in the fall, when they start up
when I am not out sailing. I would like to do some dryland training
from now until I get on a team, and also when I am sailing.

Any positive suggestions would be appreciated.
Any negative comments will be expected.

Thanks

Micheal

My advice may not be popular, Micheal, but here it goes:

Sport-specific weight training (which is what I assume you mean when you
say dryland training) should be the domain of high-level coaches and
high-level athletes. 99 percent of the exercising population for whom
weight lifting is not the main form of exercise are best served by a
_general_, not a _specific, training program. For instance, if you
follow one of any number of minimalist programs, you are likely to
improve, depending on the specifics, your strength, your stamina, and
your resistance to injury, all of which will be good things for you in
the pool.

Put another way, if you want a dryland program to address your specific
weaknesses, then you ought to hire someone qualified to design and
monitor such a program for you, and that someone ought to be working
with you in person on a regular basis, anywhere from once a week to
almost daily. Most of us have a myriad of deficiencies in our basic
movement patterns and ranges of motion, and some simple, well-chosen
exercises, performed with a solid focus on good technique and without
any sort of machismo about the amount of resistance or the number or
repetitions achieved, can help you achieve a great deal.

Given your recent postings about some pretty advanced feats of swimming,
I would like to repeat a Russian 'proverb' Pavel Tsatsouline has
mentioned in his books: Understanding is just a delaying tactic. Get
out there and _do_ something on a regular basis. If you would like to
discuss general strength and conditioning programs, that's another
subject entirely; suffice it to say here that there are at least several
good ways to go about it. My personal vote - no surprise here - would
be for you to purchase a kettlebell starter kit that contains Pavel's
book "Enter The Kettlebell" and one kettlebell - you will likely be
amazed at what you can accomplish doing nothing more than what Pavel
calls the Program Minimum, a couldn't-be-simpler program of swings two
days a week and a movement called the "getup" two more days a week. You
put in only 5-10 minute per workout, so we're talking about 20-40
minutes per _week_ of resistance training. http://www.kbnj.com/kb.htm is
a link to the materials I've mentioned. Another fine choice is Bryce
Lane's "50/20" - pick a single lift, a big, compound type that works a
lot of your body, something like a barbell squat or a clean and press,
and a weight that allows you to get in 30 repetitions in the space of 20
minutes. Work your way up to 50 repetitions in 20 minutes. Simple,
brutal, effective, you can do it twice a week, again about 40 minutes
per _week_ of your time.

There is a link to my online training log at the link below should you
wish to follow it, and you might want to try Google Groups and look at
misc.fitness.misc and misc.fitness.weights to see the sorts of things
some people are doing. I will close by restating that I do not think
you need "dryland" training specifically for swimming, based on what
you've told us about yourself thus far.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Part of the reason I am looking at some sort of dryland training is
because........ There are no swimming pools on our ships. If I am gone for
months at a time, IK may loose some swimming ability.

Thanks,

Micheal

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:IIAoi.46387$Io4.29971@edtnps89...

Quoted message said:

I have asked before, and before got nothing. I will try my luck again.

To get better at swimming, you swim more.

I know on good swimteams, they do dryland training.

I unfortunately was never on a good team. Their idea of getting better
was more lengths.

I am planning to be on a masters team in the fall, when they start up
when I am not out sailing. I would like to do some dryland training from
now until I get on a team, and also when I am sailing.

Any positive suggestions would be appreciated.
Any negative comments will be expected.

Thanks

Micheal

My advice may not be popular, Micheal, but here it goes:

Sport-specific weight training (which is what I assume you mean when you
say dryland training) should be the domain of high-level coaches and
high-level athletes. 99 percent of the exercising population for whom
weight lifting is not the main form of exercise are best served by a
_general_, not a _specific, training program. For instance, if you follow
one of any number of minimalist programs, you are likely to improve,
depending on the specifics, your strength, your stamina, and your
resistance to injury, all of which will be good things for you in the
pool.

Put another way, if you want a dryland program to address your specific
weaknesses, then you ought to hire someone qualified to design and monitor
such a program for you, and that someone ought to be working with you in
person on a regular basis, anywhere from once a week to almost daily.
Most of us have a myriad of deficiencies in our basic movement patterns
and ranges of motion, and some simple, well-chosen exercises, performed
with a solid focus on good technique and without any sort of machismo
about the amount of resistance or the number or repetitions achieved, can
help you achieve a great deal.

Given your recent postings about some pretty advanced feats of swimming, I
would like to repeat a Russian 'proverb' Pavel Tsatsouline has mentioned
in his books: Understanding is just a delaying tactic. Get out there and
_do_ something on a regular basis. If you would like to discuss general
strength and conditioning programs, that's another subject entirely;
suffice it to say here that there are at least several good ways to go
about it. My personal vote - no surprise here - would be for you to
purchase a kettlebell starter kit that contains Pavel's book "Enter The
Kettlebell" and one kettlebell - you will likely be amazed at what you can
accomplish doing nothing more than what Pavel calls the Program Minimum, a
couldn't-be-simpler program of swings two days a week and a movement
called the "getup" two more days a week. You put in only 5-10 minute per
workout, so we're talking about 20-40 minutes per _week_ of resistance
training. http://www.kbnj.com/kb.htm is a link to the materials I've
mentioned. Another fine choice is Bryce Lane's "50/20" - pick a single
lift, a big, compound type that works a lot of your body, something like a
barbell squat or a clean and press, and a weight that allows you to get in
30 repetitions in the space of 20 minutes. Work your way up to 50
repetitions in 20 minutes. Simple, brutal, effective, you can do it twice
a week, again about 40 minutes per _week_ of your time.

There is a link to my online training log at the link below should you
wish to follow it, and you might want to try Google Groups and look at
misc.fitness.misc and misc.fitness.weights to see the sorts of things some
people are doing. I will close by restating that I do not think you need
"dryland" training specifically for swimming, based on what you've told us
about yourself thus far.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Micheal Artindale said:

Part of the reason I am looking at some sort of dryland training is
because........ There are no swimming pools on our ships. If I am gone for
months at a time, IK may loose some swimming ability.

Since you will be on a ship, your training will be determined by what
facilities are available on the ship. I expect the navy has thought
about this problem, so why don't you put your question to whoever of
your ship's crew is responsible for PT?

You will lose swimming fitness, when you are away from swimming for
months at a time, regardless of any other, non-swimming training you do.
But since you're never going to even attempt your personal challenge
anyway, it doesn't make a lot of difference. You can just start swimming
again, when you get back from sea.

I guess the Canadian Navy doesn't do keelhauling anymore then?

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:CpMoi.57995$tB5.7884@edtnps90...

Quoted message said:

Part of the reason I am looking at some sort of dryland training is
because........ There are no swimming pools on our ships. If I am gone
for months at a time, IK may loose some swimming ability.

Micheal, I highly recommend Pavel's book, "Naked Warrior." There is
literally no need to get out of shape. The focus of the book is on
bodyweight squats and pushups, with the goal being a one-legged squat
and a one-armed pushup. The book gives excellent instructions on every
detail of performing both of these movements, regardless of your
starting level.

http://www.kbnj.com/nw.htm is a link to the book.

I'm sure there's something you can do pullups on, and that's a great
addition as well. In addition, you might want to investigate this site:

http://www.ringtraining.com

The rings they sell come with straps and are designed specifically to be
portable - just find something to throw them over, adjust the strap
length, and you're all set. I've used the training DVD they sell on
that site and I haven't found it very useful for me - there's enough
useful, free information on the Internet for ring training - basically
you can do pushups and pullups on them in a wide variety of ways.

-S-

Quoted message said:

Thanks,

Micheal

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:IIAoi.46387$Io4.29971@edtnps89...

Quoted message said:

I have asked before, and before got nothing. I will try my luck
again.

To get better at swimming, you swim more.

I know on good swimteams, they do dryland training.

I unfortunately was never on a good team. Their idea of getting
better was more lengths.

I am planning to be on a masters team in the fall, when they start
up when I am not out sailing. I would like to do some dryland
training from now until I get on a team, and also when I am sailing.

Any positive suggestions would be appreciated.
Any negative comments will be expected.

Thanks

Micheal

My advice may not be popular, Micheal, but here it goes:

Sport-specific weight training (which is what I assume you mean when
you say dryland training) should be the domain of high-level coaches
and high-level athletes. 99 percent of the exercising population for
whom weight lifting is not the main form of exercise are best served
by a _general_, not a _specific, training program. For instance, if
you follow one of any number of minimalist programs, you are likely
to improve, depending on the specifics, your strength, your stamina,
and your resistance to injury, all of which will be good things for
you in the pool.

Put another way, if you want a dryland program to address your
specific weaknesses, then you ought to hire someone qualified to
design and monitor such a program for you, and that someone ought to
be working with you in person on a regular basis, anywhere from once
a week to almost daily. Most of us have a myriad of deficiencies in
our basic movement patterns and ranges of motion, and some simple,
well-chosen exercises, performed with a solid focus on good technique
and without any sort of machismo about the amount of resistance or
the number or repetitions achieved, can help you achieve a great
deal.

Given your recent postings about some pretty advanced feats of
swimming, I would like to repeat a Russian 'proverb' Pavel
Tsatsouline has mentioned in his books: Understanding is just a
delaying tactic. Get out there and _do_ something on a regular
basis. If you would like to discuss general strength and
conditioning programs, that's another subject entirely; suffice it to
say here that there are at least several good ways to go about it.
My personal vote - no surprise here - would be for you to purchase a
kettlebell starter kit that contains Pavel's book "Enter The
Kettlebell" and one kettlebell - you will likely be amazed at what
you can accomplish doing nothing more than what Pavel calls the
Program Minimum, a couldn't-be-simpler program of swings two days a
week and a movement called the "getup" two more days a week. You put
in only 5-10 minute per workout, so we're talking about 20-40 minutes
per _week_ of resistance training. http://www.kbnj.com/kb.htm is a
link to the materials I've mentioned. Another fine choice is Bryce
Lane's "50/20" - pick a single lift, a big, compound type that works
a lot of your body, something like a barbell squat or a clean and
press, and a weight that allows you to get in 30 repetitions in the
space of 20 minutes. Work your way up to 50 repetitions in 20
minutes. Simple, brutal, effective, you can do it twice a week,
again about 40 minutes per _week_ of your time.

There is a link to my online training log at the link below should
you wish to follow it, and you might want to try Google Groups and
look at misc.fitness.misc and misc.fitness.weights to see the sorts
of things some people are doing. I will close by restating that I do
not think you need "dryland" training specifically for swimming,
based on what you've told us about yourself thus far.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:CpMoi.57995$tB5.7884@edtnps90...

Quoted message said:

Part of the reason I am looking at some sort of dryland training is
because........ There are no swimming pools on our ships. If I am gone
for months at a time, IK may loose some swimming ability.

Micheal, I highly recommend Pavel's book, "Naked Warrior." There is
literally no need to get out of shape. The focus of the book is on
bodyweight squats and pushups, with the goal being a one-legged squat and
a one-armed pushup. The book gives excellent instructions on every detail
of performing both of these movements, regardless of your starting level.

I will order this book, it is what i am looking for.

Quoted message said:

http://www.kbnj.com/nw.htm is a link to the book.

I'm sure there's something you can do pullups on, and that's a great
addition as well. In addition, you might want to investigate this site:

http://www.ringtraining.com

The rings they sell come with straps and are designed specifically to be
portable - just find something to throw them over, adjust the strap
length, and you're all set. I've used the training DVD they sell on that
site and I haven't found it very useful for me - there's enough useful,
free information on the Internet for ring training - basically you can do
pushups and pullups on them in a wide variety of ways.

I will see if there is somewhere I could attach this in the ship, and get
the permission.

Thanks, just what I was looking for.

Micheal

Quoted message said:

-S-

Quoted message said:

Thanks,

Micheal

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:IIAoi.46387$Io4.29971@edtnps89...
>I have asked before, and before got nothing. I will try my luck again.
>
> To get better at swimming, you swim more.
>
> I know on good swimteams, they do dryland training.
>
> I unfortunately was never on a good team. Their idea of getting better
> was more lengths.
>
> I am planning to be on a masters team in the fall, when they start up
> when I am not out sailing. I would like to do some dryland training
> from now until I get on a team, and also when I am sailing.
>
> Any positive suggestions would be appreciated.
> Any negative comments will be expected.
>
> Thanks
>
> Micheal

My advice may not be popular, Micheal, but here it goes:

Sport-specific weight training (which is what I assume you mean when you
say dryland training) should be the domain of high-level coaches and
high-level athletes. 99 percent of the exercising population for whom
weight lifting is not the main form of exercise are best served by a
_general_, not a _specific, training program. For instance, if you
follow one of any number of minimalist programs, you are likely to
improve, depending on the specifics, your strength, your stamina, and
your resistance to injury, all of which will be good things for you in
the pool.

Put another way, if you want a dryland program to address your specific
weaknesses, then you ought to hire someone qualified to design and
monitor such a program for you, and that someone ought to be working
with you in person on a regular basis, anywhere from once a week to
almost daily. Most of us have a myriad of deficiencies in our basic
movement patterns and ranges of motion, and some simple, well-chosen
exercises, performed with a solid focus on good technique and without
any sort of machismo about the amount of resistance or the number or
repetitions achieved, can help you achieve a great deal.

Given your recent postings about some pretty advanced feats of swimming,
I would like to repeat a Russian 'proverb' Pavel Tsatsouline has
mentioned in his books: Understanding is just a delaying tactic. Get
out there and _do_ something on a regular basis. If you would like to
discuss general strength and conditioning programs, that's another
subject entirely; suffice it to say here that there are at least several
good ways to go about it. My personal vote - no surprise here - would be
for you to purchase a kettlebell starter kit that contains Pavel's book
"Enter The Kettlebell" and one kettlebell - you will likely be amazed at
what you can accomplish doing nothing more than what Pavel calls the
Program Minimum, a couldn't-be-simpler program of swings two days a week
and a movement called the "getup" two more days a week. You put in only
5-10 minute per workout, so we're talking about 20-40 minutes per _week_
of resistance training. http://www.kbnj.com/kb.htm is a link to the
materials I've mentioned. Another fine choice is Bryce Lane's "50/20" -
pick a single lift, a big, compound type that works a lot of your body,
something like a barbell squat or a clean and press, and a weight that
allows you to get in 30 repetitions in the space of 20 minutes. Work
your way up to 50 repetitions in 20 minutes. Simple, brutal, effective,
you can do it twice a week, again about 40 minutes per _week_ of your
time.

There is a link to my online training log at the link below should you
wish to follow it, and you might want to try Google Groups and look at
misc.fitness.misc and misc.fitness.weights to see the sorts of things
some people are doing. I will close by restating that I do not think
you need "dryland" training specifically for swimming, based on what
you've told us about yourself thus far.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale said:

Part of the reason I am looking at some sort of dryland training is
because........ There are no swimming pools on our ships. If I am gone
for months at a time, IK may loose some swimming ability.

Since you will be on a ship, your training will be determined by what
facilities are available on the ship. I expect the navy has thought about
this problem, so why don't you put your question to whoever of your ship's
crew is responsible for PT?

You will lose swimming fitness, when you are away from swimming for months
at a time, regardless of any other, non-swimming training you do. But
since you're never going to even attempt your personal challenge anyway,
it doesn't make a lot of difference. You can just start swimming again,
when you get back from sea.

I guess the Canadian Navy doesn't do keelhauling anymore then?

All ships dock regularly. When you are in port or at anchor, swim in the
sea. If it is cold use a wetsuit, the exercise is the same. If you really
want to do it, you'll find a way to do it.
If you really want to swim, and you're in the navy, apply to become a diver.

Quoted message said:

All ships dock regularly. When you are in port or at anchor, swim in the
sea. If it is cold use a wetsuit, the exercise is the same. If you really
want to do it, you'll find a way to do it.
If you really want to swim, and you're in the navy, apply to become a
diver.

There are so many things wrong with your statements, so here I go.....

1) When ships do long tours, they usually have to get there from the other
port. Crossing the Atlantic still takes a few days.

2) The harbour where we are tied up in may be extremely poluted, such as the
home port. If I fall into the harbour here, it is law that I go to the
hospital.

3) As a member of the millitary, I can only go to certain spots in the
places that I go.

4)Space is a premuim on board ship. I do have a wetsuit, but, along with all
my other kit, plus a few civilian clothes, there would not be enough room in
my Locker.

5)Now, yes, there might be a chance that there is a pool that I could go to,
but, I may have duty, in which I cannot leave the ship.

Diver......

1) In order to become a diver in the Canadian Millitary you have to meet a
certain physical fitness level. I am not there, I am no where close to it.

2)a diver realy doesnt do much swimming, at least not here. I have talked to
divers to see if I should do it.

3) the fact that I am asking for things for improving my fitness level
should tell you that I am not able to do it yet.

If I keep going, it will only get worse.

I do want to become a diver, but untill my fitness level is high enough, I
cannot. I am working on doin gthat, but surprising enough, there is very
little simming in the training for a diver, but there is lots of running,
something I am not good at.

And as far as fitness level in the millitary..... look at the bellys on the
people who have been in a while.

Micheal

Micheal Artindale said:

Diver......

1) In order to become a diver in the Canadian Millitary you have to meet a
certain physical fitness level. I am not there, I am no where close to it.

But you are planning to swim across Lake Michigan.

Quoted message said:

2)a diver realy doesnt do much swimming, at least not here. I have talked to
divers to see if I should do it.

....but divers practice diving a lot, so they are always around places
where you can swim. And divers who want to stay in shape actually do
some swimming on the side.

Quoted message said:

3) the fact that I am asking for things for improving my fitness level
should tell you that I am not able to do it yet.

Actually, you asked if there is a way to avoid losing your swimming
fitness while at sea and not swimming. There isn't, despite what Steve
suggested.

Quoted message said:

If I keep going, it will only get worse.

I do want to become a diver, but untill my fitness level is high enough, I
cannot.

Your swimming fitness level will never be high enough because you don't
do anything to raise it high enough.

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale said:

Diver......

1) In order to become a diver in the Canadian Millitary you have to meet
a certain physical fitness level. I am not there, I am no where close to
it.

But you are planning to swim across Lake Michigan.

Quoted message said:

2)a diver realy doesnt do much swimming, at least not here. I have talked
to divers to see if I should do it.

...but divers practice diving a lot, so they are always around places
where you can swim. And divers who want to stay in shape actually do some
swimming on the side.

Quoted message said:

3) the fact that I am asking for things for improving my fitness level
should tell you that I am not able to do it yet.

Actually, you asked if there is a way to avoid losing your swimming
fitness while at sea and not swimming. There isn't, despite what Steve
suggested.

Quoted message said:

If I keep going, it will only get worse.

I do want to become a diver, but untill my fitness level is high enough,
I cannot.

Your swimming fitness level will never be high enough because you don't do
anything to raise it high enough.

Excuses Excuses, always excuses................
By the way, divers in the British Royal navy are required to maintain a
certain level of surface swimming fitness, and are tested on it regularly. I
am interested to see that Canadian navy divers don't do much swimming, but
are required to meet certain fitness tests. The tests can't be up to much,
if they don't do much swimming, which implies that the divers aren't much
good either. Yet I see you now want to become a diver too.
Dream on.....

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale said:

Diver......

1) In order to become a diver in the Canadian Millitary you have to meet
a certain physical fitness level. I am not there, I am no where close to
it.

But you are planning to swim across Lake Michigan.

Actually, no. I would be doing the other 4.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2)a diver realy doesnt do much swimming, at least not here. I have talked
to divers to see if I should do it.

...but divers practice diving a lot, so they are always around places
where you can swim. And divers who want to stay in shape actually do some
swimming on the side.

uhm... They dive in all sorts of water, some of it not even safe to be in.
They are usually in drysuits, covering any skin.

I am not saying that they dont swim on the side. I was saying that it is not
required of them of their job.
http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=R345&bhcp=1
Their Job discription and training information.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3) the fact that I am asking for things for improving my fitness level
should tell you that I am not able to do it yet.

Actually, you asked if there is a way to avoid losing your swimming
fitness while at sea and not swimming. There isn't, despite what Steve
suggested.

I realize that I may loose some swimming ability when not doing it. That is
a given. I am more concerned of getting the "PO gut". Most peole who have
been in a while develop a gut. I would like to avoid getting one for a
while. Anything that prevents this and will keep the muscles that help me
swim strong is good.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If I keep going, it will only get worse.

I do want to become a diver, but untill my fitness level is high enough,
I cannot.

Your swimming fitness level will never be high enough because you don't do
anything to raise it high enough.

So, working on muscle strengh would not raise my fitness level, which would
eventually alow me to go further, faster?

http://www.psphalifax.ns.ca/FleetFitness/expres.asp
That is what I have to pass each year to keep my job.

Scroll down to diver. Notice nothing about swimming?

I am 27 in about 2 weeks, so to become a diver I need: stage 9.5, 105
combined handgrip, 30 pushups and 40 situps. Even in Basic Training, they
have a swim test, and, it is the only test on course you do not have to
pass.

I do my homework, and when I dont know, i ask.

Micheal

Quoted message said:

Excuses Excuses, always excuses................
By the way, divers in the British Royal navy are required to maintain a
certain level of surface swimming fitness, and are tested on it regularly.
I am interested to see that Canadian navy divers don't do much swimming,
but are required to meet certain fitness tests. The tests can't be up to
much, if they don't do much swimming, which implies that the divers aren't
much good either. Yet I see you now want to become a diver too.
Dream on.....

I am not in the British Navy.

See my other post as to the fitness levels.

What I dream, I eventually do.

As a child, I dreamed of swiming across the bay I swam 2 years ago. As a
child, I dreamed of doing lots of things.

Dreams make people do things. Without dreams, we would still live in caves.

WSill I be able to do everything I dream of? Likely not. But... That doesnt
mean I should not work towards that.

Micheal

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:nofpi.66506$xk5.28682@edtnps82...

Quoted message said:

snip <
I am more concerned of getting the "PO gut". Most peole who have been in a
while develop a gut. I would like to avoid getting one for a while.
Anything that prevents this and will keep the muscles that help me swim
strong is good.

Then eat little, and stay away from the booze.

"Duncan Heenan" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:nofpi.66506$xk5.28682@edtnps82...

Quoted message said:

snip <
I am more concerned of getting the "PO gut". Most peole who have been in
a while develop a gut. I would like to avoid getting one for a while.
Anything that prevents this and will keep the muscles that help me swim
strong is good.

Then eat little, and stay away from the booze.

If only it were that easy

Tradition is that there are 6 meals plus morning soup. Any time you have 8
hours free, you drink then sleep.

The only time I drink is when we are not sailing. I not only eat less, but
eat as healthy as I can.

"butter your bacon" is not as odd as you might think. they love the deep fat
fryer.

Micheal

Micheal Artindale said:

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale said:

Diver......

1) In order to become a diver in the Canadian Millitary you have to meet
a certain physical fitness level. I am not there, I am no where close to
it.

But you are planning to swim across Lake Michigan.

Actually, no. I would be doing the other 4.

You have missed the point again. You say you are nowhere near the
fitness level required for being a diver. That fitness level is far
below the level required to swim across any of the great lakes. Yet you
are contemplating swimming across one of the great lakes. It doesn't
matter which one. And you are going to be on a ship at see for a third
to a half of the time between now and your self-imposed deadline of
doing it before you reach 35. To anyone looking at this, it appears that
you have deliberately set yourself a challenge that you can't possibly
achieve. You aren't swimming now; you won't be able to swim while you
are at sea; you only swim about 1k per hour when you do swim; you aren't
a member of a masters team, so you don't have a coach. You aren't doing
any of the things that a swimmer who is serious about achieving your
goal would do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2)a diver realy doesnt do much swimming, at least not here. I have talked
to divers to see if I should do it.

...but divers practice diving a lot, so they are always around places
where you can swim. And divers who want to stay in shape actually do some
swimming on the side.

uhm... They dive in all sorts of water, some of it not even safe to be in.
They are usually in drysuits, covering any skin.

Again you missed the point. Divers are based in blased in places where
they *can* swim. I'm sure you are based in a place where you can swim.
There will be a swimming pool nearby. You can swim there. You can join a
masters team. You can get a coach. You can train in the water.

Quoted message said:

I am not saying that they dont swim on the side. I was saying that it is not
required of them of their job.
http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=R345&bhcp=1
Their Job discription and training information.

You're saying swimming competence is not required for a navy diver? Here
are some of the things the web page says:

"They must be well coordinated, manually dextrous, physically strong and
in excellent health at all times."

"Physical training"

"The work is physically and mentally demanding."

"Normally, underwater work can consume up to three times as much energy
as surface work."

If you think these divers don't have to have good swimming fitness,
you're crazy.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3) the fact that I am asking for things for improving my fitness level
should tell you that I am not able to do it yet.

Actually, you asked if there is a way to avoid losing your swimming
fitness while at sea and not swimming. There isn't, despite what Steve
suggested.

I realize that I may loose some swimming ability when not doing it. That is
a given. I am more concerned of getting the "PO gut". Most peole who have
been in a while develop a gut. I would like to avoid getting one for a
while. Anything that prevents this and will keep the muscles that help me
swim strong is good.

So you've ab abandoned the plan of swimming across Lake Ontario. That's
a start. How about setting a goal of swimming a 5k in the pool?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If I keep going, it will only get worse.

I do want to become a diver, but untill my fitness level is high enough,
I cannot.

Your swimming fitness level will never be high enough because you don't do
anything to raise it high enough.

So, working on muscle strengh would not raise my fitness level, which would
eventually alow me to go further, faster?

It won't raise your swimming fitness level. Of course increasing muscle
strength is worthwhile, but it won't do much for swimming fitness.

Quoted message said:

http://www.psphalifax.ns.ca/FleetFitness/expres.asp
That is what I have to pass each year to keep my job.

Scroll down to diver. Notice nothing about swimming?

I am 27 in about 2 weeks, so to become a diver I need: stage 9.5, 105
combined handgrip, 30 pushups and 40 situps. Even in Basic Training, they
have a swim test, and, it is the only test on course you do not have to
pass.

I do my homework, and when I dont know, i ask.

I don't know what any of these numbers mean, so I can't evaluate them,
but I don't see what any of this has to do with swimming. You started
this discussion by asking how you could maintain your swimming fitness
while at sea, and you asked what would be required for you to prepare to
do a very long distance swim in open water. Passing this test for the
navy won't tell you anything about your chance of success at completing
that swim.

Quoted message said:

Micheal

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale said:

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale wrote:
> Diver......
>
> 1) In order to become a diver in the Canadian Millitary you have to
> meet a certain physical fitness level. I am not there, I am no where
> close to it.
But you are planning to swim across Lake Michigan.

Actually, no. I would be doing the other 4.

You have missed the point again. You say you are nowhere near the fitness
level required for being a diver. That fitness level is far below the
level required to swim across any of the great lakes. Yet you are
contemplating swimming across one of the great lakes. It doesn't matter
which one. And you are going to be on a ship at see for a third to a half
of the time between now and your self-imposed deadline of doing it before
you reach 35. To anyone looking at this, it appears that you have
deliberately set yourself a challenge that you can't possibly achieve. You
aren't swimming now; you won't be able to swim while you are at sea; you
only swim about 1k per hour when you do swim; you aren't a member of a
masters team, so you don't have a coach. You aren't doing any of the
things that a swimmer who is serious about achieving your goal would do.

Actually, I would like to be a diver by age 35. I figure that by that time
my fitness level and my swimming skills should be on par with being able to
swim the distance I want. If I atempt it and fail, then I know what I can
do, and what I need to work on. It is better to set a time line to do it as
apposed to not doing it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> 2)a diver realy doesnt do much swimming, at least not here. I have
> talked to divers to see if I should do it.
...but divers practice diving a lot, so they are always around places
where you can swim. And divers who want to stay in shape actually do
some swimming on the side.

uhm... They dive in all sorts of water, some of it not even safe to be
in. They are usually in drysuits, covering any skin.

Again you missed the point. Divers are based in blased in places where
they *can* swim. I'm sure you are based in a place where you can swim.
There will be a swimming pool nearby. You can swim there. You can join a
masters team. You can get a coach. You can train in the water.

Look in my other recent posts. I did mention getting in a masters team,
swimming at pools in onther ports......

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am not saying that they dont swim on the side. I was saying that it is
not required of them of their job.
http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=R345&bhcp=1
Their Job discription and training information.

You're saying swimming competence is not required for a navy diver? Here
are some of the things the web page says:

"They must be well coordinated, manually dextrous, physically strong and
in excellent health at all times."

"Physical training"

"The work is physically and mentally demanding."

"Normally, underwater work can consume up to three times as much energy as
surface work."

If you think these divers don't have to have good swimming fitness, you're
crazy.

Did it say they had to be able to swim a certain distance? No.

Did it say they have to be a competent swimmer? No.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> 3) the fact that I am asking for things for improving my fitness level
> should tell you that I am not able to do it yet.
Actually, you asked if there is a way to avoid losing your swimming
fitness while at sea and not swimming. There isn't, despite what Steve
suggested.

I realize that I may loose some swimming ability when not doing it. That
is a given. I am more concerned of getting the "PO gut". Most peole who
have been in a while develop a gut. I would like to avoid getting one for
a while. Anything that prevents this and will keep the muscles that help
me swim strong is good.

So you've ab abandoned the plan of swimming across Lake Ontario. That's a
start. How about setting a goal of swimming a 5k in the pool?

I never said that I would swim across Lake Ontario seperate of me attempting
the Great lakes (minus Lake Michigan).

2 km in a pool is harder physicallly and mentally than 4 km in a lake. Do
not ask me why as I have yet been able to figure that out. Although, 50m in
a 25m pool is harder than 50m in a 50m pool.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> If I keep going, it will only get worse.
>
> I do want to become a diver, but untill my fitness level is high
> enough, I cannot.
Your swimming fitness level will never be high enough because you don't
do anything to raise it high enough.

So, working on muscle strengh would not raise my fitness level, which
would eventually alow me to go further, faster?

It won't raise your swimming fitness level. Of course increasing muscle
strength is worthwhile, but it won't do much for swimming fitness.

Quoted message said:

http://www.psphalifax.ns.ca/FleetFitness/expres.asp
That is what I have to pass each year to keep my job.

Scroll down to diver. Notice nothing about swimming?

I am 27 in about 2 weeks, so to become a diver I need: stage 9.5, 105
combined handgrip, 30 pushups and 40 situps. Even in Basic Training, they
have a swim test, and, it is the only test on course you do not have to
pass.

I do my homework, and when I dont know, i ask.

I don't know what any of these numbers mean, so I can't evaluate them, but
I don't see what any of this has to do with swimming. You started this
discussion by asking how you could maintain your swimming fitness while at
sea, and you asked what would be required for you to prepare to do a very
long distance swim in open water. Passing this test for the navy won't
tell you anything about your chance of success at completing that swim.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/asu_kingston/psp/kmcsc/fitness/expres_e.asp?Nocache=6%2F9%2F2007+3%3A48%3A56+PM

That explains it better than I can.

The basic understanding is it is a way to measure your physical fitness leve
in a finite way.

The shuttle run is used to measure your VO2 max
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VO2_max

Now, had you done a bit of googleing, you might have found it on your own,
and become smarter on your own.

Micheal

Micheal Artindale said:

Actually, I would like to be a diver by age 35. I figure that by that time
my fitness level and my swimming skills should be on par with being able to
swim the distance I want. If I atempt it and fail, then I know what I can
do, and what I need to work on. It is better to set a time line to do it as
apposed to not doing it.

Why don't you take the NAUI or PADI diving course?

Quoted message said:

Look in my other recent posts. I did mention getting in a masters team,
swimming at pools in onther ports......

You mention lots of things. The problem is you don't follow through.

Quoted message said:

Did it say they had to be able to swim a certain distance? No.

Did it say they have to be a competent swimmer? No.

Here's the thing. I am a diver. You do have to be a competent swimmer.
You will be moving around a lot of bulky weight using very large, very
stiff flippers. Sport diving is demanding enough. Doing work underwater
will be a lot harder.

Quoted message said:

I never said that I would swim across Lake Ontario seperate of me attempting
the Great lakes (minus Lake Michigan).

2 km in a pool is harder physicallly and mentally than 4 km in a lake.

No, it isn't. Swimming in a pool is easier, because you can see where
you are going without looking up; you don't have to worry about being
run over by a boat; the water temperature is not a problem, and there is
no wind chop. The water is also a lot more clear and clean.

Quoted message said:

Do not ask me why as I have yet been able to figure that out. Although,
50m in a 25m pool is harder than 50m in a 50m pool.

No, it isn't. The short course records are lower than the long course
records.

Quoted message said:

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/asu_kingston/psp/kmcsc/fitness/expres_e.asp?Nocache=6%2F9%2F2007+3%3A48%3A56+PM

That explains it better than I can.

The basic understanding is it is a way to measure your physical fitness leve
in a finite way.

The shuttle run is used to measure your VO2 max
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VO2_max

Now, had you done a bit of googleing, you might have found it on your own,
and become smarter on your own.

Yes, but it says nothing about swimming fitness. These tests don't
measure swimming speed and endurance.

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:9egpi.66602$xk5.25635@edtnps82...

Quoted message said:

"Duncan Heenan" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:nofpi.66506$xk5.28682@edtnps82...

Quoted message said:

snip <
I am more concerned of getting the "PO gut". Most peole who have been in
a while develop a gut. I would like to avoid getting one for a while.
Anything that prevents this and will keep the muscles that help me swim
strong is good.

Then eat little, and stay away from the booze.

If only it were that easy

Tradition is that there are 6 meals plus morning soup. Any time you have 8
hours free, you drink then sleep.

The only time I drink is when we are not sailing. I not only eat less, but
eat as healthy as I can.

"butter your bacon" is not as odd as you might think. they love the deep
fat fryer.

Micheal

Excuses...Excuses....again

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale said:

Actually, I would like to be a diver by age 35. I figure that by that
time my fitness level and my swimming skills should be on par with being
able to swim the distance I want. If I atempt it and fail, then I know
what I can do, and what I need to work on. It is better to set a time
line to do it as apposed to not doing it.

Why don't you take the NAUI or PADI diving course?

Once I get a spare $300 I will be. This is likely with in the next 6 months.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Look in my other recent posts. I did mention getting in a masters team,
swimming at pools in onther ports......

You mention lots of things. The problem is you don't follow through.

Life happens. I do things I say as soon as I am able to do them. If I plan
to join a masters, but I am sailing until Jan, then i would join in Jan.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did it say they had to be able to swim a certain distance? No.

Did it say they have to be a competent swimmer? No.

Here's the thing. I am a diver. You do have to be a competent swimmer. You
will be moving around a lot of bulky weight using very large, very stiff
flippers. Sport diving is demanding enough. Doing work underwater will be
a lot harder.

I never doubted that. I was just pointing out the requirements for a navy
diver.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I never said that I would swim across Lake Ontario seperate of me
attempting the Great lakes (minus Lake Michigan).

2 km in a pool is harder physicallly and mentally than 4 km in a lake.

No, it isn't. Swimming in a pool is easier, because you can see where you
are going without looking up; you don't have to worry about being run over
by a boat; the water temperature is not a problem, and there is no wind
chop. The water is also a lot more clear and clean.

Maybe for you. For me, I am able to go further, longer, faster. Takes me
about 20 mins for 1km open water, in a pool, its almost 30mins.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do not ask me why as I have yet been able to figure that out. Although,
50m in a 25m pool is harder than 50m in a 50m pool.

No, it isn't. The short course records are lower than the long course
records.

I dont doubt that. For me, I am a few seconds faster in a longer pool, and,
I can do more distance.

I am odd.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/asu_kingston/psp/kmcsc/fitness/expres_e.asp?Nocache=6%2F9%2F2007+3%3A48%3A56+PM

That explains it better than I can.

The basic understanding is it is a way to measure your physical fitness
leve in a finite way.

The shuttle run is used to measure your VO2 max
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VO2_max

Now, had you done a bit of googleing, you might have found it on your
own, and become smarter on your own.

Yes, but it says nothing about swimming fitness. These tests don't measure
swimming speed and endurance.

My point exactly. It is not required for a navy diver.

Micheal