Thick Bikers

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:06:50 -0700 someone who may be John Edgar
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I don't know but it seems to be that people in the biking world are a
bit thick.

One particular part of the biking world. Bike racing may or may not
interest those who use bikes to go to the library, but it is as
removed from their journeys as Formula 1 driving is from the
majority of motorists.

Quoted message said:

Why don't they forget the whole thing and let them take the drugs.

It may be easier to get them to pedal identical exercise bikes in
future, which would also allow those who make the rules to
truthfully say that the "race" is about the humans rather than the
machines.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Jul 25, 3:25 pm, David Hansen <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

One particular part of the biking world. Bike racing may or may not
interest those who use bikes to go to the library, but it is as
removed from their journeys as Formula 1 driving is from the
majority of motorists.

That's as may be, but after all the cocaine, synthetic testosterone,
brandy, strychinine, extra blood, EPO, steroids and amphetamines, I am
now getting to the library VERY quickly. My behaviour inside the
library has, however, deteriorated somewhat.

David

in message <[email hidden]>, John

Edgar (') said:

I don't know but it seems to be that people in the biking world are a
bit thick. Time and time again we have a drugging event, everyone
throws up their hands in horror and says " O merde, lets have a clear
out, a new start, and to quote this year's tour director, "a
revolution." Yes, let's do that shall we, and then over the next 12
months we can forget all about it and start all over again. That's
what'll happen, I can guarantee it.

Why don't they forget the whole thing and let them take the drugs.
It's their lives they are going to ruin isn't it?

That's one option; it has its merits.

Quoted message said:

On top of this we have to put up with the stupidest commentators
imaginable. Comments like "you should always try and ride in the first
15 places" (repeated on 2 days) leave me quite astonished. How
exactly? There are 200 + racers. How can they all get into the first
15 slots on the road? Also, the domestiques are told to do other
things aren't they, so they couldn't do this even if they wanted to,
could they?

Give that man a medal. The best place to be is near the front of the field,
so that's where you'll normally find the GC contenders - each with one or
two domestiques to support him. The rest of the field would like to be
there, but can't be, chiefly because the spaces are taken by the really
good guys and they aren't going to let filler material muscle in.

Cyclists aren't nearly as thick as some of their fans.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; When all else fails, read the distractions.

in message <[email hidden]>, David Hansen

(') said:

Quoted message said:

Why don't they forget the whole thing and let them take the drugs.

It may be easier to get them to pedal identical exercise bikes in
future, which would also allow those who make the rules to
truthfully say that the "race" is about the humans rather than the
machines.

Been tried, back in the twenties. Didn't work then, won't work now.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
[ Disclaimer: This is a work displacement exercise. Please feel free ]
[ to reply either on or off group. Expect lengthy replies until the ]
[ deadline has passed. Thank-you for your cooperation. ]

John Edgar said:

I don't know but it seems to be that people in the biking world are a
bit thick. Time and time again we have a drugging event, everyone
throws up their hands in horror and says " O merde, lets have a clear
out, a new start, and to quote this year's tour director, "a
revolution." Yes, let's do that shall we, and then over the next 12
months we can forget all about it and start all over again. That's
what'll happen, I can guarantee it.

Why don't they forget the whole thing and let them take the drugs.
It's their lives they are going to ruin isn't it?

Indeed. However, I have no intention of watching people kill themselves.

Quoted message said:

On top of this we have to put up with the stupidest commentators
imaginable. Comments like "you should always try and ride in the first
15 places" (repeated on 2 days) leave me quite astonished. How
exactly? There are 200 + racers. How can they all get into the first
15 slots on the road?

They can't. I would suggest that you should always try to finish first.

Cheers,
Luke
--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

David Hansen said:

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:06:50 -0700 someone who may be John Edgar
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I don't know but it seems to be that people in the biking world are a
bit thick.

One particular part of the biking world. Bike racing may or may not
interest those who use bikes to go to the library, but it is as
removed from their journeys as Formula 1 driving is from the
majority of motorists.

quite no intrest at all here, in the same way i might drive a car but i
equally have zero intrest in formal one or touring cars etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why don't they forget the whole thing and let them take the drugs.

It may be easier to get them to pedal identical exercise bikes in
future, which would also allow those who make the rules to
truthfully say that the "race" is about the humans rather than the
machines.

all sport has drugs in it. thats doesn't excuse it but is worth
reminding that cycling is very unlikely to be the bad boy of the bunch.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Quoted message said:

Why don't they forget the whole thing and let them take the drugs.
It's their lives they are going to ruin isn't it?

That's an interesting argument though I'd suggest that obvious answer
is that young generations should be free to pursue a career in
professional cycling racing without putting their lives at risk or
deteriorating their quality of live in later years.

If two tours were run simultaneously, one drug free, the other
'anything goes'. It would be interesting to see which were more
popular. I'm guessing the human interest would be split between the
tour with the fastest times - keenly followed by people who themselves
would risk taking drugs to compete at a higher level, and the drug
free tour - followed by the elder and wiser. The drug tour may be
more exciting to watch, but it would never happen because no blue-chip
company would ever pay a penny in sponsorship to be associated with
such a dirty sport.

It's worth noting that for all its money, glitz and glamor - F1 motor-
racing has thus far remained un-tarnished. I can't decide whether
this is genuine, or down to the claims that a super-athlete level of
fitness is required are just plain exaggerated, or that drugs are rife
but testing is low/non-existent.

Regards,

Duncan

Duncan Smith said:

Quoted message said:

Why don't they forget the whole thing and let them take the drugs.
It's their lives they are going to ruin isn't it?

That's an interesting argument though I'd suggest that obvious answer
is that young generations should be free to pursue a career in
professional cycling racing without putting their lives at risk or
deteriorating their quality of live in later years.

If two tours were run simultaneously, one drug free, the other
'anything goes'. It would be interesting to see which were more
popular. I'm guessing the human interest would be split between the
tour with the fastest times - keenly followed by people who themselves
would risk taking drugs to compete at a higher level, and the drug
free tour - followed by the elder and wiser. The drug tour may be
more exciting to watch, but it would never happen because no blue-chip
company would ever pay a penny in sponsorship to be associated with
such a dirty sport.

What if the pharmaceutical industry sponsored teams,
donating drugs to their teams. A bit like the motor
industry sponsoring F1. They could even publicise what
drugs the athlete was taking.

Quoted message said:

It's worth noting that for all its money, glitz and glamor - F1 motor-
racing has thus far remained un-tarnished. I can't decide whether
this is genuine, or down to the claims that a super-athlete level of
fitness is required are just plain exaggerated, or that drugs are rife
but testing is low/non-existent.

I think F1 is different. Although they do have to be very
fit, there driving skill is what maters the most.
I expect that most F1 drivers do take something, even if
it is only caffine or something.

Duncan Smith said:

It's worth noting that for all its money, glitz and glamor - F1 motor-
racing has thus far remained un-tarnished. I can't decide whether
this is genuine, or down to the claims that a super-athlete level of
fitness is required are just plain exaggerated, or that drugs are rife
but testing is low/non-existent.

Testing happpens in motorsport I used to compete in rallies at an
international level and was tested twice. The difference is that if you
are going to cheat in MSport you do it with the car, 'cos that's where
it have will have most benefit.

marc said:

Duncan Smith said:

It's worth noting that for all its money, glitz and glamor - F1 motor-
racing has thus far remained un-tarnished. I can't decide whether
this is genuine, or down to the claims that a super-athlete level of
fitness is required are just plain exaggerated, or that drugs are rife
but testing is low/non-existent.

Testing happpens in motorsport I used to compete in rallies at an
international level and was tested twice. The difference is that if you
are going to cheat in MSport you do it with the car, 'cos that's where
it have will have most benefit.

That's very true.

Martin Dann said:

Duncan Smith said:

If two tours were run simultaneously, one drug free, the other
'anything goes'. It would be interesting to see which were more
popular. ........

Quoted message said:

What if the pharmaceutical industry sponsored teams,

Amgen were the sponsors of this years Tour of California (winner:
Leipheimer).
Amgen make EPO, a product with legitimate medical uses, including kidney
failure and reducing the side effects of some cancer treatments.

Quoted message said:

donating drugs to their teams.

I assume this did not happen.

Quoted message said:

A bit like the motor
industry sponsoring F1. They could even publicise what
drugs the athlete was taking.

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Duncan Smith said:

Quoted message said:

Why don't they forget the whole thing and let them take the drugs.
It's their lives they are going to ruin isn't it?

That's an interesting argument though I'd suggest that obvious answer
is that young generations should be free to pursue a career in
professional cycling racing without putting their lives at risk or
deteriorating their quality of live in later years.

It has been said that past members of the professional peloton have
died young as a result of drug taking. Are there any figures available
which show premature deaths among ex cyclists? It would be interesting
to know, for example, what portion of the 1977 tdf peloton are still
with us.

I think that the proposal for a legitimised drugged up peloton is
silly. There is a difference between the risks a mountaineer takes and
that of a doper. It would therefore be nice to see some figures on the
longevity of elite cyclists.

in message <[email hidden]>, Duncan

Smith (') said:

It's worth noting that for all its money, glitz and glamor - F1 motor-
racing has thus far remained un-tarnished.  I can't decide whether
this is genuine, or down to the claims that a super-athlete level of
fitness is required are just plain exaggerated, or that drugs are rife
but testing is low/non-existent.

I was wondering exactly that today. Super-fitness certainly is needed for
F1 driving. However, F1 drivers race for considerably shorter periods than
racing cyclists, and they don't race every day for three weeks (and their
energy output while racing is /probably/ considerably lower). Still, it
would be interesting to throw TdF-level drug testing at the F1 circus and
see what they found.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

IMHO, there aren't enough committed Christians, but that's care
in the community for you. -- Ben Evans

in message <[email hidden]>,

raisethe (') said:

Duncan Smith said:

Quoted message said:

Why don't they forget the whole thing and let them take the drugs.
It's their lives they are going to ruin isn't it?

That's an interesting argument though I'd suggest that obvious answer
is that young generations should be free to pursue a career in
professional cycling racing without putting their lives at risk or
deteriorating their quality of live in later years.

It has been said that past members of the professional peloton have
died young as a result of drug taking. Are there any figures available
which show premature deaths among ex cyclists? It would be interesting
to know, for example, what portion of the 1977 tdf peloton are still
with us.

There was a spate of deaths among young cyclists about fifteen years ago
due to excessive EPO use - their blood became so thick that there hearts
failed while they were asleep. Apart from this there don't seem to be any
particular life-shortening consequences of currently used performance
enhancing drugs.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; better than your average performing pineapple

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Duncan

Smith (') said:

It's worth noting that for all its money, glitz and glamor - F1 motor-
racing has thus far remained un-tarnished. I can't decide whether
this is genuine, or down to the claims that a super-athlete level of
fitness is required are just plain exaggerated, or that drugs are rife
but testing is low/non-existent.

I was wondering exactly that today. Super-fitness certainly is needed for
F1 driving. However, F1 drivers race for considerably shorter periods than
racing cyclists, and they don't race every day for three weeks (and their
energy output while racing is /probably/ considerably lower). Still, it
would be interesting to throw TdF-level drug testing at the F1 circus and
see what they found.

i'd imagine most high end sports would have some sort of drugs in it,
what ever your doing some are going to try to find a edge how ever
small.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Duncan

Smith (') said:

It's worth noting that for all its money, glitz and glamor - F1 motor-
racing has thus far remained un-tarnished.  I can't decide whether
this is genuine, or down to the claims that a super-athlete level of
fitness is required are just plain exaggerated, or that drugs are rife
but testing is low/non-existent.

I was wondering exactly that today. Super-fitness certainly is needed for
F1 driving.

Not all that much. Schumacher started it and now they are all quite fit,
but it's just to keep them alert.

If you watch Indy Car a lot of them are quite out of shape and they have
more G force to put up with on those ovals (they drive street circuits
and tracks too), and the races are about the same lengths.

Quoted message said:

However, F1 drivers race for considerably shorter periods than racing
cyclists, and they don't race every day for three weeks (and their
energy output while racing is /probably/ considerably lower). Still,
it would be interesting to throw TdF-level drug testing at the F1
circus and see what they found.

I doubt there'd be any need whatsover for blood doping in F1. I suppose
people might take stimulants or something but I don't think they'd help
much over that distance.

Quoted message said:

Cyclists aren't nearly as thick as some of their fans.

That's clearly correct. You only have to watch them trying to bring
the riders down at the top of the climbs, where the road is completely
blocked by people. Of course our intuitive commentators pass this off
by saying something like "look at all the fans helping the bikers
along." I wonder what they are seeing. Frankly, I think having a vast
basque nationalist flag waved right into your face is not very
helpful. Also having bottles of urine thrown at you, supposedly being
water to "help" cool the bikers down, cannot be very pleasant can it?

What a sport. I used to be interested but the more I see and try to
understand the less I like. I will go back and follow the gentlemens'
games: cricket and rugby.

John

John Edgar said:

Quoted message said:

Cyclists aren't nearly as thick as some of their fans.

Also having bottles of urine thrown at you, supposedly being
water to "help" cool the bikers down, cannot be very pleasant can it?

As one of the riders said, they think they are helping by throwing
cooling water over you but the last thing you need on a climb is to
carry the extra weight of sodden clothing.

Tony

John Edgar said:

John

Wouldnt it just make more sense if all competitors in the professional
sports arena were tested once per year as a matter of course. That way
you could ensure that "random" testing didnt miss some and that the
playing field was level. Athletes should see the tests as a badge of
honour, not as a threat.