Entry fees?

In article said:

So, what's the entry fee for IMFL? I need to prepare my wife about a month ahead of time.

I believe the official IM events have entry fees of $400.

Tom Henderson said:

So, what's the entry fee for IMFL? I need to prepare my wife about a month ahead of time.

Tom

I paid $400 for the 2003 race.

"Tom Henderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, what's the entry fee for IMFL? I need to prepare my wife about a month ahead of time.

Tom

Yeah, it's a sticker shock. Try to be philosophical about it. Think of your total "training related
expenses" in preparation. This is probably small in view of your total cost(s).

Try not to get hung up, as many do, on the idea that someone is getting rich. That is highly
unlikely. I think the real problem has more to do with a lack of cash sponsorship in the
event/sport. Someone has to pay the band...

rsquared

In article <[email hidden]>, Tom Henderson

Quoted message said:

So, what's the entry fee for IMFL? I need to prepare my wife about a month ahead of time.

Most WTC IM races are about $400. I just did my first last month (Wisconsin) and I thought it was
worth it. Some of that extra money for doing an Ironman over another race of the same distance goes
for the trademark, but I think they really put on a first-class event, and they do give you some
stuff that I don't think lesser races give you.

For example, we got two pretty good meals, the use of a really nice convention center, aid stations
that were fully stocked until the end, incredible volunteer support, a well-marked course, a large
number of race marshals and tech support people, and probably a lot of other stuff I can't think of
right now. I'd hate to train that hard for a race and have a bad experience on race day because I
was hoping to save $150.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

"Witheld" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Tom Henderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, what's the entry fee for IMFL? I need to prepare my wife about a month ahead of time.

Tom

Yeah, it's a sticker shock. Try to be philosophical about it. Think of your total "training
related expenses" in preparation. This is probably small in view of your total cost(s).

Try not to get hung up, as many do, on the idea that someone is getting rich. That is highly
unlikely. I think the real problem has more to do with a lack of cash sponsorship in the
event/sport. Someone has to pay the band...

rsquared

I agree. I've volunteered at this race for three years, and it's really amazing to see the scale of
things up close. The volunteers required outnumber the athletes, and paid law enforcement and safety
personnel are required for the duration of the race. Even with $400 (I was guessing at least $300)
per participant, some free supplies (but not all) and some paying sponsors, I don't think any IM
race is much of a cash cow.

Tom

Witheld said:

Quoted message said:

Tom

Yeah, it's a sticker shock. Try to be philosophical about it. Think of your total "training related
expenses" in preparation. This is probably small in view of your total cost(s).

Try not to get hung up, as many do, on the idea that someone is getting rich. That is highly
unlikely. I think the real problem has more to do with a lack of cash sponsorship in the
event/sport. Someone has to pay the band...

rsquared

I dont remember the exact figure, but the Houston Marathon pays about $22,000 per hour to the
Houston police dept. to shut down the streets for it's 6 hour marathon. It adds up.

In article <[email hidden]>, Harold Buck
<[email hidden]> wrote:>

Quoted message said:

Most WTC IM races are about $400. I just did my first last month (Wisconsin) and I thought it was
worth it. Some of that extra money for doing an Ironman over another race of the same distance
goes for the trademark, but I think they really put on a first-class event, and they do give you
some stuff that I don't think lesser races give you.

For example, we got two pretty good meals, the use of a really nice convention center, aid
stations that were fully stocked until the end, incredible volunteer support, a well-marked
course, a large number of race marshals and tech support people, and probably a lot of other stuff
I can't think of right now. I'd hate to train that hard for a race and have a bad experience on
race day because I was hoping to save $150.

Maybe you should do a "lesser" race and find out. I've done 4 WTC events and 3 "lesser" events. I
got more at the Ultramax races for my $200 than any of the WTC events.

Two pretty good meals: check (and, my extra tickets didn't cost me an arm and a leg)

use of a really nice convention center: better--use of a really, really nice resort! Where they
didn't gouge us on room prices and minimum stays! How novel!

aid stations that were fully stocked to the end: double-check. And, the voluteer to athlete
ratio was 2:1.

race marshals and tech support: check

clm in sf ironclm.blogspot.comironclm.blogspot.comOpen ↗

--
[email hidden] cathy morgan, san francisco, ca REMOVE x x to email

Witheld said:

"Tom Henderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, what's the entry fee for IMFL? I need to prepare my wife about a month ahead of time.

Tom

Yeah, it's a sticker shock. Try to be philosophical about it. Think of your total "training related
expenses" in preparation. This is probably small in view of your total cost(s).

As a last hour finisher, I figure I get better value per hour than the fast guys. <g>

Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

Quoted message said:

Try not to get hung up, as many do, on the idea that someone is getting rich. That is highly
unlikely. I think the real problem has more to do with a lack of cash sponsorship in the
event/sport. Someone has to pay

the

Quoted message said:

band...

rsquared

Yes, I totally agree !

Because: we are living in capitalist society which has an, essentially, free market. So if
somebody would make a good profit by providing triathlon races you could be sure that more people
would follow his example and try to make money by providing triathlons where the fee's would be
slightly less (to attract more people). Hence, the competition will prevent, in the long run,
over-priced events.

Possible that the M-dot-races are controlled by a central organisation and thus circumvent the
competition and are able to over-charge you. But that's the case really with all premium products.
People don't mind paying extra money for a T-shirt - as long as it is labeled "Kelvin Klein". I,
personally, enjoy the freedom of having "Kelvin Klein" stuff laying around in shops. Wheather or not
I buy it is another matter.

So, why not enjoy the freedom of choice. I very much enjoy small and "cheap" races. But I am also
grateful that the big "expensive" races are offered to me, too. Wheather or not I race them is
another matter. And basically, I believe, a very personal decision.

Manfred

In article said:

"Witheld" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Tom Henderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, what's the entry fee for IMFL? I need to prepare my wife about a month ahead of time.

Tom

Yeah, it's a sticker shock. Try to be philosophical about it. Think of your total "training
related expenses" in preparation. This is probably small in view of your total cost(s).

Try not to get hung up, as many do, on the idea that someone is getting rich. That is highly
unlikely. I think the real problem has more to do with a lack of cash sponsorship in the
event/sport. Someone has to pay the band...

rsquared

I agree. I've volunteered at this race for three years, and it's really amazing to see the scale
of things up close. The volunteers required outnumber the athletes, and paid law enforcement and
safety personnel are required for the duration of the race. Even with $400 (I was guessing at
least $300) per participant, some free supplies (but not all) and some paying sponsors, I don't
think any IM race is much of a cash cow.

I'd wonder about that. Granted, paid law enforcement and safety personnel are going to cost a good
amount of money. But a lot of the support is also based on volunteers who don't get paid. They get
fed, but that's pennies on the dollar for the number of hours they work. Add to that sponsors (i.e.
Gatorade) probably pay a good amount of money to have their logo up all over the place. And that the
city has to pay IM money to even host the event there. I just have to think that someone in the IM
organization is making a good profit from it all.

Like my friends usually say, "Ironman.com" is .com and not .org for a reason.

- chris

PS. If money is that big of an issue, you may also want to consider doing an Irondistance event.
There is the Great Floridian in Florida which I hear is a very good race. And at a fraction of
the cost of the M dot branded race.

In article said:

Witheld said:

Quoted message said:

Tom

Yeah, it's a sticker shock. Try to be philosophical about it. Think of your total "training
related expenses" in preparation. This is probably small in view of your total cost(s).

Try not to get hung up, as many do, on the idea that someone is getting rich. That is highly
unlikely. I think the real problem has more to do with a lack of cash sponsorship in the
event/sport. Someone has to pay the band...

rsquared

I dont remember the exact figure, but the Houston Marathon pays about $22,000 per hour to the
Houston police dept. to shut down the streets for it's 6 hour marathon. It adds up.

But with ~15,000 participants paying fees of $20 - $60 to participate in the race, police
support seems to be a relatively small portion of their budget. One has to wonder where the rest
of it all goes.

- chris

(Cathy Morgan) said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Harold Buck
<[email hidden]> wrote:>

Quoted message said:

Most WTC IM races are about $400. I just did my first last month (Wisconsin) and I thought it was
worth it. Some of that extra money for doing an Ironman over another race of the same distance
goes for the trademark, but I think they really put on a first-class event, and they do give you
some stuff that I don't think lesser races give you.

For example, we got two pretty good meals, the use of a really nice convention center, aid
stations that were fully stocked until the end, incredible volunteer support, a well-marked
course, a large number of race marshals and tech support people, and probably a lot of other
stuff I can't think of right now. I'd hate to train that hard for a race and have a bad
experience on race day because I was hoping to save $150.

Maybe you should do a "lesser" race and find out. I've done 4 WTC events and 3 "lesser" events. I
got more at the Ultramax races for my $200 than any of the WTC events.

Two pretty good meals: check (and, my extra tickets didn't cost me an arm and a leg)

use of a really nice convention center: better--use of a really, really nice resort! Where they
didn't gouge us on room prices and minimum stays! How novel!

aid stations that were fully stocked to the end: double-check. And, the voluteer to athlete
ratio was 2:1.

race marshals and tech support: check

clm in sf ironclm.blogspot.comironclm.blogspot.comOpen ↗

--
[email hidden] cathy morgan, san francisco, ca REMOVE x x to email

I'm not saying WTC events are better or worse as I have very little experiance with both. It
does however seem rather amazing to me that an IM event would actually cost 400$ per person.
On a scale of economy most things get cheaper the larger they get. Thus a 112 mi course
"should" be cheaper than a 56 mi course. In the case of an IM like IM WI all of teh course
were two loops. So although the actual time the course was done and the time "paid"
officials were on duty was longer the number of officials needed is not much more than a 1/2
IM, most of which cost around 125-150$ for a no name race. It woudl make sense that an IM
woudl cost around 200-250$ not the 400$ that the WTC events are. Another point is that most
items get cheaper the more they are duplicated. I.E. The more WTC events that are put on the
less expensive they shoudl become thru the experiance of putting them on an reused resources
etc. That being said I would have to make teh assumption that somebodies making some cash at
400$ a crack. It would be interesting to see a balance sheet on one of these races.

~Matt

I totally agree with everything Cathy said about Ultramax. While you don't have all the hoopla and
spectators at non M-Dot's (my experience: full Vineman and Ultramax, both years; IMUSA, IMCali, IMC,
and volunteering at
IMF), you get every bit as much in terms of service and goodies. Plus, Ultramax (and i believe Duke
Blue Devil) are nonprofit events. Proceeds from the events go to medical research.

"Cathy Morgan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Harold Buck
<[email hidden]> wrote:>

Quoted message said:

Most WTC IM races are about $400. I just did my first last month (Wisconsin) and I thought it
was worth it. Some of that extra money for doing an Ironman over another race of the same
distance goes for the trademark, but I think they really put on a first-class event, and they do
give you some stuff that I don't think lesser races give you.

For example, we got two pretty good meals, the use of a really nice convention center, aid
stations that were fully stocked until the end, incredible volunteer support, a well-marked
course, a large number of race marshals and tech support people, and probably a lot of other
stuff I can't think of right now. I'd hate to train that hard for a race and have a bad
experience on race day because I was hoping to save $150.

Maybe you should do a "lesser" race and find out. I've done 4 WTC events and 3 "lesser" events. I
got more at the Ultramax races for my $200 than any of the WTC events.

Two pretty good meals: check (and, my extra tickets didn't cost me an arm and a leg)

use of a really nice convention center: better--use of a really, really nice resort! Where they
didn't gouge us on room prices and minimum stays! How novel!

aid stations that were fully stocked to the end: double-check. And, the voluteer to athlete ratio
was 2:1.

race marshals and tech support: check

clm in sf ironclm.blogspot.comironclm.blogspot.comOpen ↗

--
[email hidden] cathy morgan, san francisco, ca REMOVE x x to email

Chris said:

In article said:

Witheld said:

> Tom

Yeah, it's a sticker shock. Try to be philosophical about it. Think of your total "training
related expenses" in preparation. This is probably small in view of your total cost(s).

Try not to get hung up, as many do, on the idea that someone is getting rich. That is highly
unlikely. I think the real problem has more to do with a lack of cash sponsorship in the
event/sport. Someone has to pay the band...

rsquared

I dont remember the exact figure, but the Houston Marathon pays about $22,000 per hour to the
Houston police dept. to shut down the streets for it's 6 hour marathon. It adds up.

But with ~15,000 participants paying fees of $20 - $60 to participate in the race, police support
seems to be a relatively small portion of their budget. One has to wonder where the rest of it
all goes.

- chris

Guestimate Full time staff of 2 = $100k Police = $130k Marathoners:3 tees, medal, mug, certificate,
results book @ $10 = $58K Half: 2 tees, medal, certificate, results book @ $8 = $37K Cash Awards =
$64K Convention hall rental for 2 days (expo+race) = no idea Championchip (or whoever) costs = no
idea USATF officials = no idea Advertising = no idea Insurance = no idea

Never been in or to an IM race so no idea what that would involve, but it I'm sure it is more
complicated and costly.

Rich

Chris <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

And that the city has to pay IM money to even host the event there.

I don't think this is the case at Panama City Beach. In fact, last year some council members made
rumblings about not allowing the race this year because of traffic problems.

Quoted message said:

PS. If money is that big of an issue, you may also want to consider doing an Irondistance event.
There is the Great Floridian in Florida which I hear is a very good race. And at a fraction
of the cost of the M dot branded race.

Aside from the money, I wish there were more Iron distance events. I could care less about the M
dot. The cost of the race isn't that much, compared to getting my familly there etc. I would be
happy to have one IM distance in my state, Texas, but I don't think there are any.

Andy

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:56:00 GMT, "trihard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Any lists of non "IronMan" IM distance races?

~Matt

Quoted message said:

I totally agree with everything Cathy said about Ultramax. While you don't have all the hoopla and
spectators at non M-Dot's (my experience: full Vineman and Ultramax, both years; IMUSA, IMCali,
IMC, and volunteering at
IMF), you get every bit as much in terms of service and goodies. Plus, Ultramax (and i believe Duke
Blue Devil) are nonprofit events. Proceeds from the events go to medical research.

"Cathy Morgan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Harold Buck
<[email hidden]> wrote:>

Quoted message said:

Most WTC IM races are about $400. I just did my first last month (Wisconsin) and I thought it
was worth it. Some of that extra money for doing an Ironman over another race of the same
distance goes for the trademark, but I think they really put on a first-class event, and they
do give you some stuff that I don't think lesser races give you.

For example, we got two pretty good meals, the use of a really nice convention center, aid
stations that were fully stocked until the end, incredible volunteer support, a well-marked
course, a large number of race marshals and tech support people, and probably a lot of other
stuff I can't think of right now. I'd hate to train that hard for a race and have a bad
experience on race day because I was hoping to save $150.

Maybe you should do a "lesser" race and find out. I've done 4 WTC events and 3 "lesser" events. I
got more at the Ultramax races for my $200 than any of the WTC events.

Two pretty good meals: check (and, my extra tickets didn't cost me an arm and a leg)

use of a really nice convention center: better--use of a really, really nice resort! Where they
didn't gouge us on room prices and minimum stays! How novel!

aid stations that were fully stocked to the end: double-check. And, the voluteer to athlete ratio
was 2:1.

race marshals and tech support: check

clm in sf ironclm.blogspot.comironclm.blogspot.comOpen ↗

--
[email hidden] cathy morgan, san francisco, ca REMOVE x x to email

In article said:

I'm not saying WTC events are better or worse as I have very little experiance with both. It does
however seem rather amazing to me that an IM event would actually cost 400$ per person. On a scale
of economy most things get cheaper the larger they get. Thus a 112 mi course "should" be cheaper
than a 56 mi course. In the case of an IM like IM WI all of teh course were two loops. So although
the actual time the course was done and the time "paid" officials were on duty was longer the
number of officials needed is not much more than a 1/2 IM, most of which cost around 125-150$ for
a no name race. It woudl make sense that an IM woudl cost around 200-250$ not the 400$ that the
WTC events are.

You're operating under a false assumption. Most 1/2-IM races are two loops as well, so the full IM
does need to cover twice the course.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

MJuric' MJuric said:

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:56:00 GMT, "trihard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Any lists of non "IronMan" IM distance races?

~Matt

Try www.trifind.com

I believe you can count the US-based, non-MDot IM races on one hand:

Great Floridian Duke Blue Devil Ultramax Pineman Vineman

Anyone know of any others? Call me nuts, but something tells me if these races were really the cash
cows people seem to think they are, someone would find a way to put on more of them.

John