Entry fees?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Andy Howell said:

Quoted message said:

PS. If money is that big of an issue, you may also want to consider doing an Irondistance
event. There is the Great Floridian in Florida which I hear is a very good race. And at a
fraction of the cost of the M dot branded race.

Aside from the money, I wish there were more Iron distance events. I could care less about the M
dot. The cost of the race isn't that much, compared to getting my familly there etc. I would be
happy to have one IM distance in my state, Texas, but I don't think there are any.

My thought is that Texas is probably next on the list for an M-dot race, since the south central
portion of the country has kind of a "hole" in the M-dot coverage. And as long as WTC keeps selling
out every race 11 months in advance, they might as well keep adding them.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

John Hardt said:

MJuric' MJuric said:

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:56:00 GMT, "trihard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Any lists of non "IronMan" IM distance races?

~Matt

Try www.trifind.com

I believe you can count the US-based, non-MDot IM races on one hand:

Great Floridian Duke Blue Devil Ultramax Pineman Vineman

Anyone know of any others? Call me nuts, but something tells me if these races were really the cash
cows people seem to think they are, someone would find a way to put on more of them.

John

Good point. However I'm also wondering why in the world there aren't more considering the
sell out rate of most/all of the IM races now. Aren't most filling in a couple of weeks
sometimes days? Either 1) they aren't cash cows so the organizers aren't in any big hurry to
do more so they can make only a little more 2) they are cash cows and they don't want to
make it seem that it's "Easy to do" by starting up 10 new races in a year. Thus giving more
incentive to others to give it a go. No doubt starting an IM is an undertaking to say the
least, but how much more of an undertaking is it than a half or even an oly length. There
are a number of halves going on that seem to be doing ok most of them are reasonably priced.

~Matt

John Hardt wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

I believe you can count the US-based, non-MDot IM races on one hand:

Great Floridian Duke Blue Devil Ultramax Pineman Vineman

Anyone know of any others?

J&A has a new one next May, I think it is called California Man and will be held in the Sierra
foothills out of Folsom.

Bill

MJuric said:

Good point. However I'm also wondering why in the world there aren't more considering the sell out
rate of most/all of the IM races now. Aren't most filling in a couple of weeks sometimes days?

MDot races, yes. Non-Mdot no. The Duke Blue Devil is this coming weekend and registration is still
open. The Great Floridian is Oct 25 and registration is still open. I registered for Pineman (held
September 21) only 10 days before that race and the field was nowhere near "full".

The only explanation for this I can come up with is that there is a market out there for the "Tommy
Hilfiger" of IM races. There seem to be enough people who want to do an Mdot race that they are
willing to cough up cash - a lot of cash - a year in advance to ensure they have a spot. The facts
above show that the non-MDot events clearly don't have that luxury.

Some will criticize the mindset that makes MDot events sell out just as some criticize the purchase
of Hilfiger jeans, but the evidence seems to bear out that there is a market for both. I'd guess if
you had the brand name that everyone wanted you'd charge more for it too. I, for one, agree with
Manfred and am glad we have the choice. One year I may decide to do an "off brand" race just to test
my own abilities. A different year I may treat myself to the MDot experience. No different than
choosing Marriott for one vacation and Holiday Inn for the next.

Getting back to the original topic: given that the MDot races aren't filling and there is only five
of them in the US I wouldn't assume there's a bunch of money to be made in these things. I'll eat my
words if you can find a race director who disagrees with me.

John

John Hardt said:

MJuric said:

Good point. However I'm also wondering why in the world there aren't more considering the
sell out rate of most/all of the IM races now. Aren't most filling in a couple of weeks
sometimes days?

MDot races, yes. Non-Mdot no. The Duke Blue Devil is this coming weekend and registration is still
open. The Great Floridian is Oct 25 and registration is still open. I registered for Pineman (held
September 21) only 10 days before that race and the field was nowhere near "full".

The only explanation for this I can come up with is that there is a market out there for the "Tommy
Hilfiger" of IM races. There seem to be enough people who want to do an Mdot race that they are
willing to cough up cash - a lot of cash - a year in advance to ensure they have a spot. The facts
above show that the non-MDot events clearly don't have that luxury.

Some will criticize the mindset that makes MDot events sell out just as some criticize the purchase
of Hilfiger jeans, but the evidence seems to bear out that there is a market for both. I'd guess if
you had the brand name that everyone wanted you'd charge more for it too. I, for one, agree with
Manfred and am glad we have the choice. One year I may decide to do an "off brand" race just to
test my own abilities. A different year I may treat myself to the MDot experience. No different
than choosing Marriott for one vacation and Holiday Inn for the next.

I think having the ability to do one or the otehr is a great idea too. I was however not
aware that non M-Dot's aren't filling up. To me that makes them even more attractive. Having
the ability to decide on doing one a few months out vs 12 or more is a great bonus.

Quoted message said:

Getting back to the original topic: given that the MDot races aren't

Which ones aren't filling? My understanding is they fill rather rapidly. most withing weeks
some in days.

Quoted message said:

filling and there is only five of them in the US I wouldn't assume there's a bunch of money to be
made in these things. I'll eat my words if you can find a race director who disagrees with me.

I'm guessing here again but if the non M-dots are charging half what the Mdots are and are
still going even though they aren't filling up, I would suspect that the Mdots are making
some cash. This is assuming that the others aren't going broke, which I can't prove or
disproove. Of course it is quite possible that MDots are spending a significant amount more
cash for a "better" quality race. But I have a hard time seeing were tehy coudl spend twice
the money.

~Matt

Quoted message said:

John

I said:

Quoted message said:

Getting back to the original topic: given that the MDot races aren't

Then MJuric said:

Which ones aren't filling? My understanding is they fill rather rapidly. most withing weeks some
in days.

Oops... Typo... Of course, I meant to say "non-Mdot" races aren't filling. The Mdot events are
filling without a doubt - yes, often within days.

In article <[email hidden]>, Harold Buck

Quoted message said:

In article said:

I'm not saying WTC events are better or worse as I have very little experiance with both. It
does however seem rather amazing to me that an IM event would actually cost 400$ per person. On
a scale of economy most things get cheaper the larger they get. Thus a 112 mi course "should" be
cheaper than a 56 mi course. In the case of an IM like IM WI all of teh course were two loops.
So although the actual time the course was done and the time "paid" officials were on duty was
longer the number of officials needed is not much more than a 1/2 IM, most of which cost around
125-150$ for a no name race. It woudl make sense that an IM woudl cost around 200-250$ not the
400$ that the WTC events are.

You're operating under a false assumption. Most 1/2-IM races are two loops as well, so the full IM
does need to cover twice the course.

What the hell are you talking about????????

Do you work for WTC? Or did you become an expert after one IM-distance race?

I can't think of one 1/2 IM race that I've done or personally know about where the swim or bike are
two loops. Maybe one of them has a 2-loop run.

clm in sf, who gets chapped when misinformation is disseminated

--
[email hidden] cathy morgan, san francisco, ca REMOVE x x to email

Tom Henderson <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And that the city has to pay IM money to even host the event there.

I don't think this is the case at Panama City Beach. In fact, last year some council members made
rumblings about not allowing the race this year because of traffic problems.

I get the Panama City tv news. From the reports on the first 5 year sponsorship contract I've heard,
the Panama City Beach Tourist Development Council was responsible for paying something like $100,000
per year. The figure I've heard for the race returning to PCB in 2004 was $125,000, this time from
assorted big local donors because the PCBTDC decided it wasn't worth it for them to directly
continuing sponsoring the race for what IMNA wanted them to pay for another 5 years.

Cathy Morgan said:

Quoted message said:

You're operating under a false assumption. Most 1/2-IM races are two loops as well, so the full
IM does need to cover twice the course.

What the hell are you talking about????????

Do you work for WTC? Or did you become an expert after one IM-distance race?

I can't think of one 1/2 IM race that I've done or personally know about where the swim or bike
are two loops. Maybe one of them has a 2-loop run.

Pineman and the Great Buckeye Challenge to name two.

Harold Buck said:

My thought is that Texas is probably next on the list for an M-dot race, since the south central
portion of the country has kind of a "hole" in the M-dot coverage. And as long as WTC keeps
selling out every race 11 months in advance, they might as well keep adding them.

I hope you are right. I heard a rumor that there might be one in October 2004, but have not heard
anything lately. I've only done one ironman, vineman 2002, but I want to do more. I finished it, but
not with an official time. Its one of those things that I just have to do 🙂

There are a lot of sprint and shorter races here, but not so many olympic or longer. Not sure why
that is. There is a big tri club here in Austin, 600 members or so. I would have thought there would
be more demand.

Andy

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Cathy

Morgan) said:

Quoted message said:

You're operating under a false assumption. Most 1/2-IM races are two loops as well, so the full
IM does need to cover twice the course.

What the hell are you talking about????????

Do you work for WTC? Or did you become an expert after one IM-distance race?

No, and no.

Quoted message said:

I can't think of one 1/2 IM race that I've done or personally know about where the swim or bike
are two loops. Maybe one of them has a 2-loop run.

I've done two half IMs. Both had two loop courses on the bike. One had two loops on the run, the
other was an out-and-back, which in my book is the same as two loops since the aid stations perform
double duty and you see the same scenery twice. Maybe things are different where you live.

The races were the Square Lake longe course in Minnesota and the Wisconsin Dells Tinman. Now you can
re-post and tell us you only know of two half IMs with two loops on the bike and two on the run.

Quoted message said:

clm in sf, who gets chapped when misinformation is disseminated

Maybe I over-generalized. Sorry. Change my claim to "many" instead of "most."

--Harold Buck in Indiana, who gets chapped when dealing with abrasive people

[email hidden] (Jill) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Tom Henderson <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And that the city has to pay IM money to even host the event there.

I don't think this is the case at Panama City Beach. In fact, last year some council members made
rumblings about not allowing the race this year because of traffic problems.

I get the Panama City tv news. From the reports on the first 5 year sponsorship contract I've
heard, the Panama City Beach Tourist Development Council was responsible for paying something like
$100,000 per year. The figure I've heard for the race returning to PCB in 2004 was $125,000, this
time from assorted big local donors because the PCBTDC decided it wasn't worth it for them to
directly continuing sponsoring the race for what IMNA wanted them to pay for another 5 years.

I stand corrected!

Tom

In article said:

John Hardt wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

I believe you can count the US-based, non-MDot IM races on one hand:

Great Floridian Duke Blue Devil Ultramax Pineman Vineman

Anyone know of any others?

J&A has a new one next May, I think it is called California Man and will be held in the Sierra
foothills out of Folsom.

ChesapeakeMan, or something similar, is supposed to start next year as well.

Didn't there used to be something called "EagleMan"? Did that race die?

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

snip<<

Quoted message said:

ChesapeakeMan, or something similar, is supposed to start next year as well.

Didn't there used to be something called "EagleMan"? Did that race die?

Eagleman = 1/2IM (Kona Qualifier) Chesapeake Man = Full IM

Quoted message said:

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson