An unusual flat

Pat said:

I got a flat yesterday and found out that it was caused by the Mr. Tuffy
strip I had put in between the tube and tire. The overlap part of the Mr.
Tuffy strip had worn the tube thin and there was air leakage in a small arc
shape on the tube.

I had heard this might be a problem a long time ago, but put it down to an
urban myth.

Pat in TX

Yes Pat it is true.

If you need the strips use a thicker inner tube. Also, every couple
weeks (if you ride lots) then dismount the tire and move the strip a
and inch or two so you can spread out the damage the liner is doing
to the tube.

Fritz said:

If you need the strips use a thicker inner tube. Also, every couple
weeks (if you ride lots) then dismount the tire and move the strip a
and inch or two so you can spread out the damage the liner is doing
to the tube.

I'd think you'd need to be having lots of flats to make that procedure
time efficient. I think I gete lots of flats but they don't add up to
be as much as dismounting two tires every two weeks. You would need to
get 4 flats a month to be even.

gds said:

I'd think you'd need to be having lots of flats to make that procedure
time efficient. I think I gete lots of flats but they don't add up to
be as much as dismounting two tires every two weeks. You would need to
get 4 flats a month to be even.

There is some "time efficiency" you are not considering. Time spent on
the shoulder of a busy road fixing a flat, when you are supposed to be
at the office, is bigger time than that spent in your basement, with
the bike on the stand.

--

David L. Johnson

A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems.
-- Paul Erdos

Pat said:

I got a flat yesterday and found out that it was caused by the Mr. Tuffy
strip I had put in between the tube and tire. The overlap part of the Mr.
Tuffy strip had worn the tube thin and there was air leakage in a small arc
shape on the tube.

I'm curious -- how did you determine it was the tuffy liner?

I've used these liners for ~10 years on my bikes (RB + MTB/commuter)
and as far as I know they've never caused any flats. Fortunately
(knock on skull) I only get one or two flats per year. Usually I find
an obvious cause such as a piece of metal or glass sticking out of the
tire, or I find a classic pinch-flat "snake bite" pattern along the
tube. I'm not sure what I'd look for to blame the tire liner.

- JR

Pat said:

I got a flat yesterday and found out that it was caused by the Mr. Tuffy
strip I had put in between the tube and tire. The overlap part of the Mr.
Tuffy strip had worn the tube thin and there was air leakage in a small arc
shape on the tube.

I had heard this might be a problem a long time ago, but put it down to an
urban myth.

Pat in TX

This is not unheard of.

When the Mr Tuffy's are new, sometimes the edges of the ends are cut off
square. There's two schools of though as to what should be done to "fix"
this:

....some people say you should burn the edge with a flame, so that it
becomes rounded off.

....some say you should trim off the end so that the liner's thickness
tapers off at an angle, instead of stopping abruptly.

I prefer to use Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires and puncture-resistant
tubes (double-thickness in the tread area) and no liners at all.

I've kinda wondered why nobody makes kevlar tape tire liners. ?
~

On Jul 11, 8:14 am, "David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

gds said:

I'd think you'd need to be having lots of flats to make that procedure
time efficient. I think I gete lots of flats but they don't add up to
be as much as dismounting two tires every two weeks. You would need to
get 4 flats a month to be even.

There is some "time efficiency" you are not considering. Time spent on
the shoulder of a busy road fixing a flat, when you are supposed to be
at the office, is bigger time than that spent in your basement, with
the bike on the stand.

--

David L. Johnson

A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems.
-- Paul Erdos

I agree in principle but the real world data is more like this (at
least for me)
Average of one flat per month. It takes me 4-5 minutes to change a
rear tire and 2-3 minutes for front. My flats run ~4 to1 rear to front
so I guess we are talking about an average of (for me) 4 minutes per
month.

Beyond that first order estimate from what I hear from others there is
still a possibility of flats in the OP's sytem so that on road fixies
are not ruled out in any case.

gds said:

..... My flats run ~4 to1 rear to front
so I guess we are talking about an average of (for me) 4 minutes per
month. .....

I've heard of this with motorized bicycles too, that it is usually the
driving wheel that takes most of the flats.

The only reason I can guess is that the tire is squirming as it rotates,
and sharp objects that are "laying down" on the roadway get pulled into
"standing up", right before the tire rolls over them.

If this is true then the most flat-resistant tires should be slicks with
a relatively-flat tread profile.... I dunno anybody who makes em tho.
????
~

Patsy said:

I got a flat yesterday and found out that it was caused by the
Mr. Tuffy strip I had put in between the tube and tire. The overlap
part of the Mr. Tuffy strip had worn the tube thin and there was
air leakage in a small arc shape on the tube.

Quoted message said:

I had heard this might be a problem a long time ago, but put it down
to an urban myth.

With a single edged razor blade or other suitable sharp edge, wet the
blade and taper the end so the strip feathers without a step... and
then throw salt over your shoulder as backup (considering some of the
advice given).

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I got a flat yesterday and found out that it was caused by the Mr. Tuffy
strip I had put in between the tube and tire. The overlap part of the Mr.
Tuffy strip had worn the tube thin and there was air leakage in a small
arc
shape on the tube.

I'm curious -- how did you determine it was the tuffy liner?

I've used these liners for ~10 years on my bikes (RB + MTB/commuter)
and as far as I know they've never caused any flats. Fortunately
(knock on skull) I only get one or two flats per year. Usually I find
an obvious cause such as a piece of metal or glass sticking out of the
tire, or I find a classic pinch-flat "snake bite" pattern along the
tube. I'm not sure what I'd look for to blame the tire liner.

- JR

I took out the tube and got my floor pump and reinflated it. The hissing was
loud and it came from the little arc-like depression where the Mr. Tuffy
liner pieces overlapped on the tube's surface. There wasn't a hole that I
could see; rather, it looked as if the tube material had just thinned out
right at that spot. This was not a new tube, though--I'd guess it had been
in use at least 2 years.

Pat

Quoted message said:

Pat said:

I took out the tube and got my floor pump and reinflated it. The hissing was
loud and it came from the little arc-like depression where the Mr. Tuffy
liner pieces overlapped on the tube's surface. There wasn't a hole that I
could see; rather, it looked as if the tube material had just thinned out
right at that spot. This was not a new tube, though--I'd guess it had been
in use at least 2 years.

Ahh -- makes perfect sense. I guess those 1-2 flats per year I've
been getting have been just enough that I haven't seen this problem
yet: I'm always riding on tubes that are less than a year old. (I
almost never use patches.)

- JR

aka Jobst Brandt said:

Patsy in Texas said:

I got a flat yesterday and found out that it was caused by the
Mr. Tuffy strip I had put in between the tube and tire. The overlap
part of the Mr. Tuffy strip had worn the tube thin and there was
air leakage in a small arc shape on the tube.

Quoted message said:

I had heard this might be a problem a long time ago, but put it down
to an urban myth.

With a single edged razor blade or other suitable sharp edge, wet the
blade and taper the end so the strip feathers without a step... and
then throw salt over your shoulder as backup (considering some of the
advice given).

Which of the many electrically neutral ionic compounds is best for this
purpose (this is a "tech" group after all)?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Edward Dolan said:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

aka Jobst Brandt said:

Patsy [in Texas] writes:

> I got a flat yesterday and found out that it was caused by the
> Mr. Tuffy strip I had put in between the tube and tire. The overlap
> part of the Mr. Tuffy strip had worn the tube thin and there was
> air leakage in a small arc shape on the tube.
> I had heard this might be a problem a long time ago, but put it down
> to an urban myth.
With a single edged razor blade or other suitable sharp edge, wet the
blade and taper the end so the strip feathers without a step... and
then throw salt over your shoulder as backup (considering some of the
advice given).

Which of the many electrically neutral ionic compounds is best for this
purpose (this is a "tech" group after all)?

A typical Tom Sherman post. He is a civil engineer and so fancies that he
has some technical knowledge that the rest of us are not privy to.

Nonsense. I expect a mechanical engineer with close to 5 decades of
experience to be precise (despite the protestations of Kentucky Bourbon
Man). 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman came up with this when s/he headbutted the
keyboard a moment ago in alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent:

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> Patsy [in Texas] writes:
>
>> I got a flat yesterday and found out that it was caused by the
>> Mr. Tuffy strip I had put in between the tube and tire. The overlap
>> part of the Mr. Tuffy strip had worn the tube thin and there was
>> air leakage in a small arc shape on the tube.
>> I had heard this might be a problem a long time ago, but put it down
>> to an urban myth.
> With a single edged razor blade or other suitable sharp edge, wet the
> blade and taper the end so the strip feathers without a step... and
> then throw salt over your shoulder as backup (considering some of the
> advice given).
Which of the many electrically neutral ionic compounds is best for this
purpose (this is a "tech" group after all)?

A typical Tom Sherman post. He is a civil engineer and so fancies that he
has some technical knowledge that the rest of us are not privy to.

Nonsense. I expect a mechanical engineer with close to 5 decades of
experience to be precise (despite the protestations of Kentucky Bourbon
Man). 😉

Patsy:

your tyre pressure was too low. I've seen such a thing happen with sidewalls
as well.
--
If you can read this -
The [censored] fell off!

Pat said:

I got a flat yesterday and found out that it was caused by the Mr. Tuffy
strip I had put in between the tube and tire. The overlap part of the Mr.
Tuffy strip had worn the tube thin and there was air leakage in a small arc
shape on the tube.

I've been using Mr. Tuffy since I had multiple flats on one ride about
four years ago. (The problem on the particular trail where this happened
to me was goat's head thorns.)
Being an early morning commuter and loathe to be late because I had to
deal with a flat in the dark, I went further. My tires are Kevlar, I have
Mr. Tuffy strips in them, and I use slime tubes. I've been riding this
way now for about 8,000 miles, with zero flats. (Although I'm thinking of
starting another thread about my negative experience with Spin Skins on my
road bike.)
Earlier this week, I was riding on that same trail again. There is
a stretch where a bend in the river is threatening to undermine the
bikeway, and they had the trail closed. As seems to be usual with
construction around here, there was no one working, just a hundred feet of
closed trail with a backhoe parked idly in the middle of it. I rode off
the trail and around to where it continued.
Almost immediately I realized that I was courting trouble. Stopping on
the other side of the area, I checked my tires. Sure enough, about ten
goat's heads. I started pulling them out, and was relieved that my
protection scheme had worked. The last thorn, though, was off to the side
where the strip couldn't stop it. As I pulled it out, I heard the sound
of a fleeting puncture, "Thp." A tiny bead of bright green appeared.
Grateful for Slime, I mounted back up and rode on. Two days and twenty
miles later, both tires are fine.

Bill

__o | Conservatism makes no poetry, breathes no prayer,
_`\(,_ | has no invention; it is all memory.
(_)/ (_) | --Ralph Waldo Emerson

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Pat said:

I got a flat yesterday and found out that it was caused by the Mr. Tuffy
strip I had put in between the tube and tire. The overlap part of the Mr.
Tuffy strip had worn the tube thin and there was air leakage in a small arc
shape on the tube.

I've been using Mr. Tuffy since I had multiple flats on one ride about
four years ago. (The problem on the particular trail where this happened
to me was goat's head thorns.)
Being an early morning commuter and loathe to be late because I had to
deal with a flat in the dark, I went further. My tires are Kevlar, I have
Mr. Tuffy strips in them, and I use slime tubes. I've been riding this
way now for about 8,000 miles, with zero flats. (Although I'm thinking of
starting another thread about my negative experience with Spin Skins on my
road bike.)
Earlier this week, I was riding on that same trail again. There is
a stretch where a bend in the river is threatening to undermine the
bikeway, and they had the trail closed. As seems to be usual with
construction around here, there was no one working, just a hundred feet of
closed trail with a backhoe parked idly in the middle of it. I rode off
the trail and around to where it continued.
Almost immediately I realized that I was courting trouble. Stopping on
the other side of the area, I checked my tires. Sure enough, about ten
goat's heads. I started pulling them out, and was relieved that my
protection scheme had worked. The last thorn, though, was off to the side
where the strip couldn't stop it. As I pulled it out, I heard the sound
of a fleeting puncture, "Thp." A tiny bead of bright green appeared.
Grateful for Slime, I mounted back up and rode on. Two days and twenty
miles later, both tires are fine.

Maybe you should just go with Slime and safe the weight of the Mr.
Tuffy's and kevlar belted tires.

Larry Dickman said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I've been using Mr. Tuffy since I had multiple flats on one ride about
four years ago. (The problem on the particular trail where this happened
to me was goat's head thorns.)
Being an early morning commuter and loathe to be late because I had to
deal with a flat in the dark, I went further. My tires are Kevlar, I have
Mr. Tuffy strips in them, and I use slime tubes. I've been riding this
way now for about 8,000 miles, with zero flats. (Although I'm thinking of
starting another thread about my negative experience with Spin Skins on my
road bike.)
Earlier this week, I was riding on that same trail again. There is
a stretch where a bend in the river is threatening to undermine the
bikeway, and they had the trail closed. As seems to be usual with
construction around here, there was no one working, just a hundred feet of
closed trail with a backhoe parked idly in the middle of it. I rode off
the trail and around to where it continued.
Almost immediately I realized that I was courting trouble. Stopping on
the other side of the area, I checked my tires. Sure enough, about ten
goat's heads. I started pulling them out, and was relieved that my
protection scheme had worked. The last thorn, though, was off to the side
where the strip couldn't stop it. As I pulled it out, I heard the sound
of a fleeting puncture, "Thp." A tiny bead of bright green appeared.
Grateful for Slime, I mounted back up and rode on. Two days and twenty
miles later, both tires are fine.

Quoted message said:

Maybe you should just go with Slime and safe the weight of the Mr.
Tuffy's and kevlar belted tires.

Spoken like a roadie. And if this were my road bike I was writing
about I might give that some thought.
But I was talking about my commuter bike. Weight and speed are not my
priorities on that bike. I'm into indestructibility. If thorns were my
only concern I might be happy with just Slime, but I'm also out there
where there's glass, nails, and plenty more, and I do half of my riding in
the dark.

Bill

__o | Blind faith in your leaders--or in anything--
_`\(,_ | will get you killed.
(_)/ (_) | --Bruce Springsteen

Quoted message said:

Larry Dickman said:

Maybe you should just go with Slime and safe the weight of the Mr.
Tuffy's and kevlar belted tires.

Spoken like a roadie. And if this were my road bike I was writing
about I might give that some thought.
But I was talking about my commuter bike. Weight and speed are not my
priorities on that bike. I'm into indestructibility. If thorns were my
only concern I might be happy with just Slime, but I'm also out there
where there's glass, nails, and plenty more, and I do half of my riding in
the dark.

That sounds not terribly removed from my kind of riding, and Slime has worked
just fine for me form something like 1900 miles (and 13 months) since I
last pulled a tube.

Granted, I'm pairing with GatorSkins, and yes, it's a road bike, but I ride
more like a commuter than a weekend warrior, and Slime does the trick.

Just another voice in the fray.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email hidden]
(_)/ (_)

Kristian M Zoerhoff said:

Quoted message said:

Larry Dickman said:

Maybe you should just go with Slime and safe the weight of the Mr.
Tuffy's and kevlar belted tires.

Spoken like a roadie. And if this were my road bike I was writing
about I might give that some thought.
But I was talking about my commuter bike. Weight and speed are not my
priorities on that bike. I'm into indestructibility. If thorns were my
only concern I might be happy with just Slime, but I'm also out there
where there's glass, nails, and plenty more, and I do half of my riding in
the dark.

Quoted message said:

That sounds not terribly removed from my kind of riding, and Slime has worked
just fine for me form something like 1900 miles (and 13 months) since I
last pulled a tube.

Quoted message said:

Granted, I'm pairing with GatorSkins, and yes, it's a road bike, but I ride
more like a commuter than a weekend warrior, and Slime does the trick.

Quoted message said:

Just another voice in the fray.

One of my favorite things in the world is cheap insurance. Like the
towing insurance that costs me about 75 cents a month for my car. Like
the smoke detector in my hallway that draws maybe an eighth of a watt. I
plan to keep that dingus in spite of the fact that in eight years in this
house I've never had a fire. I'd rather have the security it provides
than save ten cents a year in electric bills.
Ditto for my Kevlar tires, Tuffy strips, and Slime tubes. In the first
2k miles I had my commuter bike, I had numerous flats. Since the Tuffy
strips I haven't had a puncture, just a blowout when the cord in one of my
OE tires gave out.
Since I went with my triple protection scheme, I've ridden 8k miles,
and my only flat was from a worn-out valve stem. Even if the extra
protection is marginal, I'm sticking with what has worked for me.
By the logic of the poster who thought I'd want to save weight, I would
also be smart to get rid of one of my taillights. The common cheap
blinkie has 3 LED's -- I have 17 (20 when I'm pulling my trailer) and I
wouldn't be without them.
A gentleman of my acquaintance who rides to work at the same time of
day as I do was recently clobbered from behind by some idiot cager who was
paying attention to his nachos instead of the road and didn't even have
insurance. He is very lucky to be alive, and is determined to get back
on two wheels as soon as his recovery permits, but with more taillights.
(I'm gonna kick his bruised butt if he doesn't sue the cager anyway. No
insurance? Get his house or his 401k.)
Anyway like I said, I love cheap insurance.

Bill

__o | For the law to be respected the law must be respectable.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) | -Frederic Bastiat

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Larry Dickman said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I've been using Mr. Tuffy since I had multiple flats on one ride about
four years ago. (The problem on the particular trail where this happened
to me was goat's head thorns.)
Being an early morning commuter and loathe to be late because I had to
deal with a flat in the dark, I went further. My tires are Kevlar, I
have
Mr. Tuffy strips in them, and I use slime tubes. I've been riding this
way now for about 8,000 miles, with zero flats. (Although I'm thinking
of
starting another thread about my negative experience with Spin Skins on
my
road bike.)
Earlier this week, I was riding on that same trail again. There is
a stretch where a bend in the river is threatening to undermine the
bikeway, and they had the trail closed. As seems to be usual with
construction around here, there was no one working, just a hundred feet
of
closed trail with a backhoe parked idly in the middle of it. I rode off
the trail and around to where it continued.
Almost immediately I realized that I was courting trouble. Stopping
on
the other side of the area, I checked my tires. Sure enough, about ten
goat's heads. I started pulling them out, and was relieved that my
protection scheme had worked. The last thorn, though, was off to the
side
where the strip couldn't stop it. As I pulled it out, I heard the sound
of a fleeting puncture, "Thp." A tiny bead of bright green appeared.
Grateful for Slime, I mounted back up and rode on. Two days and twenty
miles later, both tires are fine.

Quoted message said:

Maybe you should just go with Slime and safe the weight of the Mr.
Tuffy's and kevlar belted tires.

Spoken like a roadie. And if this were my road bike I was writing
about I might give that some thought.
But I was talking about my commuter bike. Weight and speed are not my
priorities on that bike. I'm into indestructibility. If thorns were my
only concern I might be happy with just Slime, but I'm also out there
where there's glass, nails, and plenty more, and I do half of my riding in
the dark.

If you search the rec.bicycles newsgroups, you will find that Mr.
Tuffy's sometimes cause flats by the edges chafing the tube. Also, Mr.
Brandt claims they don't stop goat heads.