Gridlock!

On 12/05/2007 11:58, Tom Crispin said,

Quoted message said:

That's another story.

Ah - OK!

Quoted message said:

A couple of videos of deathwish drivers can be seen here:
www.newsshopper.co.uk/video/videonews/index.var.4182.0.0.php

I must admit that from that viewpoint it doesn't look startlingly
obvious that you will have cars coming towards you in what you might
think is the outside lane. There seem to be two lanes approaching the
single lane section as you come from the top of the frame and double
back. I would assume that on the ground it is blatantly obvious, and I
think I can see the red cross over the lane.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Tom Crispin said:

spindrift said:

Quoted message said:

>> This is shown by the fact that most London commuters wear
>> helmets - in the equally mistaken belief that this will reduce the danger.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Not my experience - and I cycle in London a fair bit.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not in my experience either. Most London cyclists don't wear helmets.

Quoted message said:

Hardly any London cyclists I see wear helmets.

Quoted message said:

In, errr, 1996 I think I worked in South Quay. A man later described
as an arsewit by police drove all the way past the warning signs into
the Blackwall Tunnel with a winch sticking out of the top of his
truck.

There are 17 height warnings on the aproach to the northbound
Blackwall Tunnel. A lorry getting stuck is common, and recovery teams
are well rehearsed in getting lorries out. It usually takes no more
than 10 minutes.

Quoted message said:

This was the same weekday that two other Thames crossings were shut
IIRC.

An absestos spill was unique in that the tunnel was closed for nearly
24 hours during a weekday.

Quoted message said:

East London was gridlock. The whole of the controversial Hackney cut
of the A12 was bumper to bumber. Entire estates in the East End were
blocked in by traffic. People abandoned their cars. Knocked about 5
minutes off my cycle home.

The South-east London gridlock on Wednesday and Thursday was perfect.

As the Blackwall Tunnel approach was closed, traffic backed up to the
South Circular which, in turn, became gridlocked. Once every junction
on the Eastern South Circular became clogged, motorists turned to side
roads, gridlocking those too. Before long the entire South East of
London ground to one shimmering, hooting, fuming, steaming mess.
Pavements were mounted, motorists attemping U-turns became stuck in
improbable positions and vehicles abandoned in mid road.

You should be charged for this! At least £5. It sounds like more
value than any movie this year.

Paul Boyd said:

On 12/05/2007 11:58, Tom Crispin said,

Quoted message said:

That's another story.

Ah - OK!

Quoted message said:

A couple of videos of deathwish drivers can be seen here:
www.newsshopper.co.uk/video/videonews/index.var.4182.0.0.php

I must admit that from that viewpoint it doesn't look startlingly
obvious that you will have cars coming towards you in what you might
think is the outside lane. There seem to be two lanes approaching the
single lane section as you come from the top of the frame and double
back. I would assume that on the ground it is blatantly obvious, and I
think I can see the red cross over the lane.

I agree that there are mitigating factors which may lead to some
confusion, though there are double white lines down the middle of the
carriageway.

The worst danger is from motorists overtaking inside the tunnel
itself.

Quoted message said:

Tom Crispin said:

Tony Raven said:

Colin McKenzie wrote on 11/05/2007 10:14 +0100:.
>This is shown by the fact that most London commuters wear
>helmets - in the equally mistaken belief that this will reduce the

danger.

Quoted message said:

Not my experience - and I cycle in London a fair bit.

Not in my experience either. Most London cyclists don't wear >>helmets.

Quoted message said:

permajeo wrote:
"Back in April I wrote this and more than 50% with bonce bats;
So last night I counted them and between 1800hrs and 1830hrs there were
a total of 128, 104 Westbound and 24 Eastbound, and 71 wore plastic
hats.
The pub was the Spencer Arms in Putney if anyone's interested."

Yes. I distinguish London commuters and london cyclists. At peak
commuting times the lidded percentage is well over 50%. The rest of
the time, it's much lower.

This is what I observe generally west of the centre. It may be a bit
different east and south.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

Colin McKenzie wrote on 12/05/2007 14:16 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Yes. I distinguish London commuters and london cyclists. At peak
commuting times the lidded percentage is well over 50%. The rest of the
time, it's much lower.

This is what I observe generally west of the centre. It may be a bit
different east and south.

I am not sure what you think the difference is between commuter cyclists
and cyclists. But where I cycle in central London, the West End and the
City, it is definitely not what I observe at any time. I'd say its more
like 20-30%.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Tom Crispin said:

There are 17 height warnings on the aproach to the northbound
Blackwall Tunnel. A lorry getting stuck is common, and recovery teams
are well rehearsed in getting lorries out. It usually takes no more
than 10 minutes.

I've seen the process in action. Was out on my bike once following the
Thames Path route. The traffic is stopped by red lights, and an
overheight French lorry was ordered to pull off into a sliproad. The
sliproad leads up and out, and deposits the lorry into the street
leading to the Alcatel depot.

On Sat, 12 May 2007 21:55:46 +0100, John Hearns <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Tom Crispin said:

There are 17 height warnings on the aproach to the northbound
Blackwall Tunnel. A lorry getting stuck is common, and recovery teams
are well rehearsed in getting lorries out. It usually takes no more
than 10 minutes.

I've seen the process in action. Was out on my bike once following the
Thames Path route. The traffic is stopped by red lights, and an
overheight French lorry was ordered to pull off into a sliproad. The
sliproad leads up and out, and deposits the lorry into the street
leading to the Alcatel depot.

Yes, I've that it too, probably from the same viewpoint. The loud
speakers make one hell of a noise. Even then, some lorries seem to
slip through the defences and get stuck.

My mother was once driving towards the Backwall Tunnel, when the
tunnel was closed just as she was about to enter. A tow truck came
down the ramp, reversed into the tunnel and pulled out a lorry. It
then went in again and pulled out a second lorry.

I never really understood how a lorry could be pulled out, but that's
what she said happened. Perhaps they were guided out from the first
bend rather than pulled out.

Tom Crispin said:

The Blackwall Tunnel northbound has been closed for 17 hours after an
asbestos spill. The whole of South East London is in gridlock.

No better day than today for cycling.

Here's a short clip of my commute on the day:

Not so busy, I think they had cleared the tunnel and thus any gridlock
by 08.30 or so.

Alan Braggins said:

In article <[email hidden]>, John

Hearns wrote: said:

Quoted message said:

Strangely, even though I have a 40-mile commute, I still find it a lot
quicker (and far less hassle) using a bike than a car. No, I don't
cycle all the way (!), but it means that I can cycle 4 miles to the
station,

You are hitting a nail on the head. Mixed-mode is the way forward.
Most 'normal' people even if they did want to commute by bike would
think twice about a 20 mile schlepp into work.

For a 20 or 40 mile commute, yes.

But the average commute is actually a lot shorter than that:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3085647.stm "According to the report,
the average distance travelled by UK workers is 8.5 miles".

With a few people doing hundreds of miles to push the average up,
and lots more doing the 20 to 40 mile commutes, that means there are
a lot of people commuting significantly less than 8 miles.

The CTC say most car journeys are less than five miles - that will
include school runs and popping to the shops as well as commuting,
but that's still a lot of commutes which could be cycled the whole
way. In normal clothes with no need for a shower afterwards.

for normal folk ie not terribly fit then it needs to be on flatish land
i think that more could cycle to work but for some, there may be better
options.

roger

On 13 May 2007 13:45:47 -0700, LSMike <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Tom Crispin said:

The Blackwall Tunnel northbound has been closed for 17 hours after an
asbestos spill. The whole of South East London is in gridlock.

No better day than today for cycling.

Here's a short clip of my commute on the day:

Not so busy, I think they had cleared the tunnel and thus any gridlock
by 08.30 or so.

I know those roads!

Right... Here goes.

You start off in Brockley Way, soon passing Athenlay Road.

At Ivydale Road the film cuts, but picks up again at the junction of
Ivydale Road and Cheltenham Road. It then cuts.

Impressively, at the beginning of Peckham Rye you pass a parent and
child cycling to school.

You have fun getting into the ASL box at the junction with Nunhead
Lane, and the film cuts as you're safely across.

The film picks up again at the end of Peckham High Street, and you are
soon on Peckham Road drafting the 171 bus. The film fades just before
the fire station.

When it fades in again, you're outside the Town Hall and coming up is
Camberwell Green and the Greek Cathederal spire is visible. After the
junction a numpty in a black car pulls out from the left just ahead of
you. You make excellent progress past the gridlocked traffic along
Camberwell New Road once you get to the right of the traffic. The
flim ends at the junction with Vassall Road.

How did I do?

Very good Tom! I just cut out a number of the boring bits to keep it
short and highlight passing as many cars as possible. The whole
commute is Bromley to Hyde Park.

Tom Crispin said:

Impressively, at the beginning of Peckham Rye you pass a parent and
child cycling to school.

I forgot to say I was most impressed as well, it was good to see, and
the child was doing a decent pace too. Perhaps they shouldn't have
been riding quite so much in the door zone though.

in message <[email hidden]>, Roger Merriman

(') said:

Quoted message said:

The CTC say most car journeys are less than five miles  - that will
include school runs and popping to the shops as well as commuting,
but that's still a lot of commutes which could be cycled the whole
way. In normal clothes with no need for a shower afterwards.

for normal folk ie not terribly fit then it needs to be on flatish land
i think that more could cycle to work but for some, there may be better
options.

If normal folk cycled they'd bit fitter and healthier.

Normal folk fifty years ago cycled. Normal folk in the Netherlands cycle.
There's nothing magic about the modern British that makes them
lard-dripping, heart-attack suffering slobs.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

For office use only. Please do not write or type below this line.

(Roger Merriman) said:

for normal folk ie not terribly fit then it needs to be on flatish land
i think that more could cycle to work but for some, there may be better
options.

roger

Oh come on! Nearly everyone can get into a regular 5 mile cycle ride
with ease. The problem is all with perception.

Simon Brooke said:

If normal folk cycled they'd bit fitter and healthier.

Normal folk fifty years ago cycled.

Right. Just ask Alan Holmes

-dan

LSMike said:

(Roger Merriman) said:

for normal folk ie not terribly fit then it needs to be on flatish land
i think that more could cycle to work but for some, there may be better
options.

roger

Oh come on! Nearly everyone can get into a regular 5 mile cycle ride
with ease. The problem is all with perception.

they might beable to, but for a lot it will be hot sweaty ride/push
that, when push comes to shove most will take the easyer option. rember
not every one enjoys biking. add in hills don't have to be much.

weather is a biggie. look at the added numbers now it's warm when i ride
in at rushtime you see a lot more now it's getting summery.

also inspite of the urban sprawl and the genral flatness of the south
east. not every one lives there inspite of what the papers might sugest!
a fair number could ride to work, but not nearly everyone nor with ease.
more than at the moment yes.

roger

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Roger Merriman

(') said:

Quoted message said:

The CTC say most car journeys are less than five miles - that will
include school runs and popping to the shops as well as commuting,
but that's still a lot of commutes which could be cycled the whole
way. In normal clothes with no need for a shower afterwards.

for normal folk ie not terribly fit then it needs to be on flatish land
i think that more could cycle to work but for some, there may be better
options.

If normal folk cycled they'd bit fitter and healthier.

i quite agree but that doesn't change the fact that they are.

Quoted message said:

Normal folk fifty years ago cycled. Normal folk in the Netherlands cycle.
There's nothing magic about the modern British that makes them
lard-dripping, heart-attack suffering slobs.

well the netherlands is not known for it's hills is some thing that
comes to mind.

people like the easy option, and it is easyer to sit in the car even if
it's longer than take the bike. it's dry and warm and requires no
physical effort.

the roads get fairly clogged around here, (kingston area) but even so
there's normally little in differnace in speed. i personaly like biking
so tend to use the bike but i can see why people do still use the car.

roger

On 13/05/2007 21:45, LSMike said,

Quoted message said:

4:30 - did you really carve that other cyclist up?

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd said:

On 13/05/2007 21:45, LSMike said,

Quoted message said:

4:30 - did you really carve that other cyclist up?

--
Paul Boydhttp://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

I didn't think it was quite as close as it looked in the vid, but
perhaps I did! I would have said there was about a foot between my
elbow and his when we passed, and I wouldn't accept that from a motor
vehicle, but I probably would from another cyclist passing me. I did
call out an "on your right", btw.

On 14 May 2007 09:35:43 -0700, LSMike <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Paul Boyd said:

On 13/05/2007 21:45, LSMike said,

Quoted message said:

4:30 - did you really carve that other cyclist up?

--
Paul Boydhttp://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

I didn't think it was quite as close as it looked in the vid, but
perhaps I did! I would have said there was about a foot between my
elbow and his when we passed, and I wouldn't accept that from a motor
vehicle, but I probably would from another cyclist passing me. I did
call out an "on your right", btw.

Wow!

I've just calculated your average speed. From Southwalk Town Hall at
2:16 to Vassall Road at 5:49 the distance is 1750m. You averaged
7.5m/s, or 16.8mph. That included one brief stop at traffic lights,
having to swerve to avoid a numpty driver and cutting up one hapless
cyclist innocently pottering at 6mph. ;-)

Of course, you didn't go the correct route, which TFL's journey
planner clearly shows at:
http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/user/FILELOAD?Filename=tfl_46489EDE5.pdf