Gridlock!

Tom Crispin wrote on 10/05/2007 06:30 +0100:

Quoted message said:

The Blackwall Tunnel northbound has been closed for 17 hours after an
asbestos spill. The whole of South East London is in gridlock.

No better day than today for cycling.

Don't forget to wave as you pass them all ;-)

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Tom Crispin said the following on 10/05/2007 06:30:

Quoted message said:

The Blackwall Tunnel northbound has been closed for 17 hours after an
asbestos spill. The whole of South East London is in gridlock.

No better day than today for cycling.

Yet the message still won't get across - one tunnel gets closed and a
huge chunk of London grinds to a halt. The same happens all over the
country whenever a road is out of action for some reason. It's more
ironic in London because *compared to the rest of the country* there is
a very good public transport infrastructure.

Now if all those people swearing at cyclists merrily waving as they
tootle past actually realised why the cyclist was making progress and
they weren't....

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yet the message still won't get across - one tunnel gets closed and a huge
chunk of London grinds to a halt. The same happens all over the country
whenever a road is out of action for some reason. It's more ironic in
London because *compared to the rest of the country* there is a very good
public transport infrastructure.

Now if all those people swearing at cyclists merrily waving as they tootle
past actually realised why the cyclist was making progress and they
weren't....

I remember a while ago one of our lecturers had given up the car in favour
of the bus and was ranting to us about how bad it was as the buses are
always so slow due to congestion, especially at rush hour.

I sarcastically suggested he get a bike as it's a lot quicker but a few
months later he's now got a bike and seems to be sticking with it so it must
have some benefits for him. Hopefully he'll be spreading the word as to how
much better and quicker it is and more people will follow his lead!
--
peter

Cheap train tickets database
http://www.petereverett.co.uk/tickets/

Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival
Visit website if you want to contact me

On May 10, 12:13 pm, "naked_draughtsman" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...
Hopefully he'll be spreading the word as to how
much better and quicker it is and more people will follow his lead!

Unlikely. Quite apart from most people's aversion to a form of
transport in which you have to press a pedal *more than once* in order
to maintain progress, very few will ever believe that cycling can be
faster than driving -- after all, bike are those things that "get in
the way of proper traffic", right?

Strangely, even though I have a 40-mile commute, I still find it a lot
quicker (and far less hassle) using a bike than a car. No, I don't
cycle all the way (!), but it means that I can cycle 4 miles to the
station, instead of having to drive 7 miles to a differnet station
(never any parking space at the nearer one). The nearer station has
more direct trains, too. At the other end, in London, it takes me 20
mins to get to the office, instead of up to 20 mins on the Tube plus a
10-min walk. Overall it probably saves me half an hour, as well as at
least £10, every day. 🙂

[email hidden] said the following on 10/05/2007 13:42:

Quoted message said:

On May 10, 12:13 pm, "naked_draughtsman" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...
Hopefully he'll be spreading the word as to how
much better and quicker it is and more people will follow his lead!

Point of order, your honour - I didn't say that - it was Peter. You
need to check your attributions when quoting :-)

But you're right though. In this country cycling is seen as some sort
of eccentric hobby for some reason, rather than as a viable means of
transport. It is this attitude that needs to be changed first and
foremost, and until it is then we will have more and more "facilities"
imposed on us rather than being able to use those for which we already
pay for in taxes - the roads.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd usenet.dont.work@plusnet said:

Point of order, your honour - I didn't say that - it was Peter. You
need to check your attributions when quoting :-)

Oops, sorry.

Quoted message said:

But you're right though. In this country cycling is seen as some sort
of eccentric hobby for some reason, rather than as a viable means of
transport. It is this attitude that needs to be changed first and
foremost, and until it is then we will have more and more "facilities"
imposed on us rather than being able to use those for which we already
pay for in taxes - the roads.

--
Paul Boydhttp://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

All the same I am quite encouraged by the number of people that I see
commuting by bike, in London at least. At my office it's sometimes
difficult to find a space for my bike if I arrive late (due to leaving
late, not getting caught in traffic, of course!) despite there being
quite a large bike parking area. They're currently running a campaign
to get even more people cycling (and, hopefully, will provide more
bike parking).

Quoted message said:

Strangely, even though I have a 40-mile commute, I still find it a lot
quicker (and far less hassle) using a bike than a car. No, I don't
cycle all the way (!), but it means that I can cycle 4 miles to the
station,

You are hitting a nail on the head. Mixed-mode is the way forward.
Most 'normal' people even if they did want to commute by bike would
think twice about a 20 mile schlepp into work. That would need getting
togged up in cycling-specific clothing if it were to be at all
comfortable. And the old canard about showers at work etc.

So as you say - use the bike for journeys which it is best suited
(for the majority - yes I know you lot commute to the Moon and back).
And when we get to the station LETS HAVE SOME SECURE BIKE PARKING.
And at work LETS HAVE SOME SECURE BIKE PARKING.

Look at the huge multi-storey bike park at Amsterdam's main rail
station. I'd bet most of the commuters there come in by train, then fan
out to city centre jobs using the old bike they have chained up there.

Quoted message said:

On May 10, 12:13 pm, "naked_draughtsman" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hopefully he'll be spreading the word as to how
much better and quicker it is and more people will follow his lead!

Unlikely. Quite apart from most people's aversion to a form of
transport in which you have to press a pedal *more than once* in order
to maintain progress, very few will ever believe that cycling can be
faster than driving...

I don't think this is the big problem. It's the relentless peddling of
the 'cycling is dangerous' message.

The people who take up commuter cycling in London seem to do so in
spite of thinking it's dangerous, rather than because they understand
it isn't especially so. This is shown by the fact that most London
commuters wear helmets - in the equally mistaken belief that this will
reduce the danger.

Jon Snow is the classic example of this attitude.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

In article said:

Quoted message said:

Strangely, even though I have a 40-mile commute, I still find it a lot
quicker (and far less hassle) using a bike than a car. No, I don't
cycle all the way (!), but it means that I can cycle 4 miles to the
station,

You are hitting a nail on the head. Mixed-mode is the way forward.
Most 'normal' people even if they did want to commute by bike would
think twice about a 20 mile schlepp into work.

For a 20 or 40 mile commute, yes.

But the average commute is actually a lot shorter than that:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3085647.stm "According to the report,
the average distance travelled by UK workers is 8.5 miles".

With a few people doing hundreds of miles to push the average up,
and lots more doing the 20 to 40 mile commutes, that means there are
a lot of people commuting significantly less than 8 miles.

The CTC say most car journeys are less than five miles - that will
include school runs and popping to the shops as well as commuting,
but that's still a lot of commutes which could be cycled the whole
way. In normal clothes with no need for a shower afterwards.

Colin McKenzie wrote on 11/05/2007 10:14 +0100:.

Quoted message said:

This is shown by the fact that most London commuters wear
helmets - in the equally mistaken belief that this will reduce the danger.

Not my experience - and I cycle in London a fair bit.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Tony Raven said:

Colin McKenzie wrote on 11/05/2007 10:14 +0100:.

Quoted message said:

This is shown by the fact that most London commuters wear
helmets - in the equally mistaken belief that this will reduce the danger.

Not my experience - and I cycle in London a fair bit.

Not in my experience either. Most London cyclists don't wear helmets.

Tom Crispin said:

Tony Raven said:

Colin McKenzie wrote on 11/05/2007 10:14 +0100:.

Quoted message said:

This is shown by the fact that most London commuters wear
helmets - in the equally mistaken belief that this will reduce the danger.

Not my experience - and I cycle in London a fair bit.

Not in my experience either. Most London cyclists don't wear helmets.

Hardly any London cyclists I see wear helmets.

In, errr, 1996 I think I worked in South Quay. A man later described
as an arsewit by police drove all the way past the warning signs into
the Blackwall Tunnel with a winch sticking out of the top of his
truck.

This was the same weekday that two other Thames crossings were shut
IIRC.

East London was gridlock. The whole of the controversial Hackney cut
of the A12 was bumper to bumber. Entire estates in the East End were
blocked in by traffic. People abandoned their cars. Knocked about 5
minutes off my cycle home.

spindrift said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> This is shown by the fact that most London commuters wear
> helmets - in the equally mistaken belief that this will reduce the danger.
>

Not my experience - and I cycle in London a fair bit.

Not in my experience either. Most London cyclists don't wear helmets.

Hardly any London cyclists I see wear helmets.

In, errr, 1996 I think I worked in South Quay. A man later described
as an arsewit by police drove all the way past the warning signs into
the Blackwall Tunnel with a winch sticking out of the top of his
truck.

There are 17 height warnings on the aproach to the northbound
Blackwall Tunnel. A lorry getting stuck is common, and recovery teams
are well rehearsed in getting lorries out. It usually takes no more
than 10 minutes.

Quoted message said:

This was the same weekday that two other Thames crossings were shut
IIRC.

An absestos spill was unique in that the tunnel was closed for nearly
24 hours during a weekday.

Quoted message said:

East London was gridlock. The whole of the controversial Hackney cut
of the A12 was bumper to bumber. Entire estates in the East End were
blocked in by traffic. People abandoned their cars. Knocked about 5
minutes off my cycle home.

The South-east London gridlock on Wednesday and Thursday was perfect.

As the Blackwall Tunnel approach was closed, traffic backed up to the
South Circular which, in turn, became gridlocked. Once every junction
on the Eastern South Circular became clogged, motorists turned to side
roads, gridlocking those too. Before long the entire South East of
London ground to one shimmering, hooting, fuming, steaming mess.
Pavements were mounted, motorists attemping U-turns became stuck in
improbable positions and vehicles abandoned in mid road.

On Fri, 11 May 2007 21:57:18 +0100,

Tom Crispin said:

spindrift said:

Quoted message said:

>> This is shown by the fact that most London commuters wear
>> helmets - in the equally mistaken belief that this will reduce the danger.
>>
>
>Not my experience - and I cycle in London a fair bit.

Not in my experience either. Most London cyclists don't wear helmets.

Hardly any London cyclists I see wear helmets.

In, errr, 1996 I think I worked in South Quay. A man later described
as an arsewit by police drove all the way past the warning signs into
the Blackwall Tunnel with a winch sticking out of the top of his
truck.

There are 17 height warnings on the aproach to the northbound
Blackwall Tunnel. A lorry getting stuck is common, and recovery teams
are well rehearsed in getting lorries out. It usually takes no more
than 10 minutes.

Lorries with a winch don't always get pulled out in 10 minutes.

Not the Blackwall tunnel, but I saw one where the winch had hit a
railway bridge - the cab of the lorry had then hit the roof of the
bridge and the front wheels were up off the ground.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

Tim Woodall said:

Quoted message said:

There are 17 height warnings on the aproach to the northbound
Blackwall Tunnel. A lorry getting stuck is common, and recovery teams
are well rehearsed in getting lorries out. It usually takes no more
than 10 minutes.

Lorries with a winch don't always get pulled out in 10 minutes.

Yes, I totally misunderstood the implications of the winch. LOL.

Quoted message said:

Not the Blackwall tunnel, but I saw one where the winch had hit a
railway bridge - the cab of the lorry had then hit the roof of the
bridge and the front wheels were up off the ground.

Tim Woodall said:

On Fri, 11 May 2007 21:57:18 +0100,

Tom Crispin said:

spindrift said:

>>> This is shown by the fact that most London commuters wear
>>> helmets - in the equally mistaken belief that this will reduce the danger.
>>>
>> Not my experience - and I cycle in London a fair bit.
> Not in my experience either. Most London cyclists don't wear helmets.
Hardly any London cyclists I see wear helmets.

In, errr, 1996 I think I worked in South Quay. A man later described
as an arsewit by police drove all the way past the warning signs into
the Blackwall Tunnel with a winch sticking out of the top of his
truck.

There are 17 height warnings on the aproach to the northbound
Blackwall Tunnel. A lorry getting stuck is common, and recovery teams
are well rehearsed in getting lorries out. It usually takes no more
than 10 minutes.

Lorries with a winch don't always get pulled out in 10 minutes.

Not the Blackwall tunnel, but I saw one where the winch had hit a
railway bridge - the cab of the lorry had then hit the roof of the
bridge and the front wheels were up off the ground.

For another example:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/hoecrash.asp
--
A

On 11/05/2007 21:57, Tom Crispin said,

Quoted message said:

The South-east London gridlock on Wednesday and Thursday was perfect.

Was this the tunnel lane closure deemed necessary because of the
dangerous behaviour of motorists? Seems like rough justice to me!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Back in April I wrote this and more than 50% with bonce bats;

"There I was sitting outside my local (ish) pub one evening noticing how many people cycling past me.

So last night I counted them and between 1800hrs and 1830hrs there were a total of 128, 104 Westbound and 24 Eastbound, and 71 wore plastic hats.

The bikes varied from top line MTBs and Roadies through the usual fixies, BSOs and a couple of BMX. Also lots of lycra and a few foskas.

I didn't count the motorcycle that had a dog sitting on the fuel tank but it did add to the amusement.

Not much point to the numbers other than I think that's quite a lot of bikes even for peak time, but it was a nice way to spend a pint of Broadside on a sunny evening.

The pub was the Spencer Arms in Putney if anyones interested."

Tom Crispin said:

On Fri, 11 May 2007 15:17:22 +0100, Tony Raven

Quoted message said:

Colin McKenzie wrote on 11/05/2007 10:14 +0100:.

Quoted message said:

This is shown by the fact that most London commuters wear
helmets - in the equally mistaken belief that this will reduce the danger.

Not my experience - and I cycle in London a fair bit.

Not in my experience either. Most London cyclists don't wear helmets.

Paul Boyd said:

On 11/05/2007 21:57, Tom Crispin said,

Quoted message said:

The South-east London gridlock on Wednesday and Thursday was perfect.

Was this the tunnel lane closure deemed necessary because of the
dangerous behaviour of motorists? Seems like rough justice to me!

That's another story.

For years and years the Blackwall Tunnel had been operating a
contraflow system for nothbound traffic during the morning rush hour:
two lanes nothbound using the northbound tunnel and one lane
northbound using the southbound tunnel. This came to an abrupt stop
last month after a series of reports of southbound traffic
*overtaking* during the period of tidal flow.
www.blackwalltunnel.co.uk/

A couple of videos of deathwish drivers can be seen here:
www.newsshopper.co.uk/video/videonews/index.var.4182.0.0.php

The absestos spill was another matter. Driving through the tunnel
could have caused serious long term health problems until the spillage
had been cleaned up by specialist teams and the air cleaned.