Help Me Choose A Headlight

Prisoner at War said:

I'm wondering whether to get the Light & Motion ARC Li-Ion Ultra HID
or the NiteRider Moab HID/LED. They're both the same price but the
NiteRider burns over 50% longer at the same highest level of
brightness (if I'm reading the specs right -- in which case I'm
surprised Light & Motion haven't lowered their price at all; also, I'm
not sure what it means for the NiteRider to be "HID/LED" [according to
performancebike.com, anyway])....

I hope that means either HID or LED because those are two different worlds.
HID is a High Intensity Discharge lamp that is bright.
LED is a Light Emitting Diode that is pretty good too.
The HID should be more expensive due to the high voltage drive
electronics but either is more reliable than a hot filament going over
the road.
Bill Baka

Quoted message said:

TIA, folks!

Prisoner at War said:

I'm wondering whether to get the Light & Motion ARC Li-Ion Ultra HID
or the NiteRider Moab HID/LED. They're both the same price but the
NiteRider burns over 50% longer at the same highest level of
brightness (if I'm reading the specs right -- in which case I'm
surprised Light & Motion haven't lowered their price at all; also, I'm
not sure what it means for the NiteRider to be "HID/LED" [according to
performancebike.com, anyway])....

If burn time is an issue get a hub dynamo unot, and then the burn time
is as long as you keep moving. No fiascos with battery charging, no
fiascos with forgetting your lights.
Partner with the LED B&M D-Lumotec Oval Senso plus, switches the lamp on
automagically when it starts getting gloomy so no moving parts on the
switching to break either.

Worth supplementing if you're doing a fast descent on an unlit road and
don't want to slow down, but otherwise good for most stuff. The SON is
the best of the hub dynamos, especially if you've a small front wheel.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

If burn time is an issue get a hub dynamo unot, and then the burn time
is as long as you keep moving. No fiascos with battery charging, no
fiascos with forgetting your lights.
Partner with the LED B&M D-Lumotec Oval Senso plus, switches the lamp on
automagically when it starts getting gloomy so no moving parts on the
switching to break either.

Worth supplementing if you're doing a fast descent on an unlit road and
don't want to slow down, but otherwise good for most stuff. The SON is
the best of the hub dynamos, especially if you've a small front wheel.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

I was looking into just that when I was first considering my 'bent,
but, to my way of thinking, the whole point of a light is its
brightness, and them HID lights are the brightest out there, so it's
HID for me! Besides, the NiteRider claims eight hours at 13.5
watts...even if it's really just five or six hours, that's still long
enough for most real-world applications I can imagine!

Bill said:

I hope that means either HID or LED because those are two different worlds.
HID is a High Intensity Discharge lamp that is bright.
LED is a Light Emitting Diode that is pretty good too.
The HID should be more expensive due to the high voltage drive
electronics but either is more reliable than a hot filament going over
the road.
Bill Baka

Nah, performancebike.com really has it listed as "HID/LED"...I'm
chalking it up to a typo.

Not sure what "a hot filament going over the road" means with respect
to reliability, though....

Prisoner at War said:

I'm wondering whether to get the Light & Motion ARC Li-Ion Ultra HID
or the NiteRider Moab HID/LED. They're both the same price but the
NiteRider burns over 50% longer at the same highest level of
brightness (if I'm reading the specs right -- in which case I'm
surprised Light & Motion haven't lowered their price at all; also, I'm
not sure what it means for the NiteRider to be "HID/LED" [according to
performancebike.com, anyway])....

TIA, folks!

Check out AYUP lights, www.ayup.com
getting a very good rap in Australia.

donga

In article <[email hidden]>,

Prisoner at War said:

Peter Clinch said:

If burn time is an issue get a hub dynamo unot, and then the burn
time is as long as you keep moving. No fiascos with battery
charging, no fiascos with forgetting your lights. Partner with the
LED B&M D-Lumotec Oval Senso plus, switches the lamp on
automagically when it starts getting gloomy so no moving parts on
the switching to break either.

Worth supplementing if you're doing a fast descent on an unlit road
and don't want to slow down, but otherwise good for most stuff.
The SON is the best of the hub dynamos, especially if you've a
small front wheel.

I was looking into just that when I was first considering my 'bent,
but, to my way of thinking, the whole point of a light is its
brightness, and them HID lights are the brightest out there, so it's
HID for me!

The point of a headlamp is not its brightness. The point of a headlamp
is providing useful light so that you can see where you are going. That
is as much a function of the optics of the light, not simply the power
consumption of the bulb. BTW, that's all the wattage rating is- it is
not a measure of light output. Bike lamp manufacturers have a tendency
to keep the output of their lights a confusing secret by mixing watts,
lumens, candlepower, etc.

Quoted message said:

Besides, the NiteRider claims eight hours at 13.5 watts...even if
it's really just five or six hours, that's still long enough for most
real-world applications I can imagine!

Not mine. YMMV.

Prisoner at War said:

Peter Clinch said:

If burn time is an issue get a hub dynamo unot, and then the burn time
is as long as you keep moving. No fiascos with battery charging, no
fiascos with forgetting your lights.
Partner with the LED B&M D-Lumotec Oval Senso plus, switches the lamp on
automagically when it starts getting gloomy so no moving parts on the
switching to break either.

Worth supplementing if you're doing a fast descent on an unlit road and
don't want to slow down, but otherwise good for most stuff. The SON is
the best of the hub dynamos, especially if you've a small front wheel.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

I was looking into just that when I was first considering my 'bent,
but, to my way of thinking, the whole point of a light is its
brightness, and them HID lights are the brightest out there, so it's
HID for me! Besides, the NiteRider claims eight hours at 13.5
watts...even if it's really just five or six hours, that's still long
enough for most real-world applications I can imagine!

I think HID lights are overkill for the road. Since they're primarily
targeted for the off-road rider, the beam patterns are generally much
too wide also.

LED lights have been improving rapidly. I think they'll soon obsolete
all other technologies, if they haven't already.

Prisoner at War said:

HID lights are the brightest out there, so it's
HID for me!

That's true. I have a Blow Torch. But you should know the lamps have
durability issues and cost at least $85 to replace. You will want a
spare.

I bought a B&M bottle dynamo and Dymotec LED lamp for my street bike.
It is an excellent setup. Bright and utterly dependable. Also (to my
surprise) the bottle dynamo is not noticeable when it is engaged.

Will said:

I bought a B&M bottle dynamo and Dymotec LED lamp for my street bike.
It is an excellent setup. Bright and utterly dependable. Also (to my
surprise) the bottle dynamo is not noticeable when it is engaged.

I have a B&M bottle on the freighter, and it works well. But if one is
willing to spend money then a SON hub is just much, much, much better.

Never having to worry about lights (including remembering to have them
with you, and making sure the batteries are juiced) is what I really
like. They are easily bright /enough/ for the road unless it's an unlit
road downhill at high speed. I stopped using my brighter and more
powerful rechargeables after I got the dynohub: just something extra to
faff with that didn't need faffing with.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Will said:

I bought a B&M bottle dynamo and Dymotec LED lamp for my street bike.
It is an excellent setup. Bright and utterly dependable. Also (to my
surprise) the bottle dynamo is not noticeable when it is engaged.

I have a B&M bottle on the freighter, and it works well. But if one is
willing to spend money then a SON hub is just much, much, much better.

Never having to worry about lights (including remembering to have them
with you, and making sure the batteries are juiced) is what I really
like. They are easily bright /enough/ for the road unless it's an unlit
road downhill at high speed. I stopped using my brighter and more
powerful rechargeables after I got the dynohub: just something extra to
faff with that didn't need faffing with.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Just last night I got caught up at the beach longer than planned, and
wondered if I'd make it to the shop to pick the bike up before
nightfall. The LEO in this area isn't bike friendly, and being out on
a road bike without lights will get you a ticket - especially if
you're wearing a helmet.
That said, I can definately see the attraction of a hub powered
light. Have you checked the resistance of the B&M when turned on by
hand to get an idea how much drag there is? It's good to hear some
people don't notice it when riding.
Also, what's the weight penalty for a setup like this?

It would have been great last night, but I could see myself cursing it
on a tough climb on a sunny day.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Also, what's the weight penalty for a setup like this?

It would have been great last night, but I could see myself cursing it
on a tough climb on a sunny day.

It's sufficient that you wouldn't want to put one on a our-and-out racing
bike. That said, I wouldn't let the weight bother me on such a climb - I've
got a whole lot of other [censored] as well, which indicates I generally have
other priorities.

(this applies to any fixed-in-place lighting setup)

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

It's sufficient that you wouldn't want to put one on a our-and-out racing
bike. That said, I wouldn't let the weight bother me on such a climb - I've
got a whole lot of other [censored] as well, which indicates I generally have
other priorities.

(this applies to any fixed-in-place lighting setup)

cheers,
clive

My road bike is a 60's or 70's steel Rudge singlespeed, with fenders.
I keep my tailight on 24/7, but the headlight comes and goes as I need
it for riding, and as it's around when I need a quick flashlight. I
wouldn't call it a race bike, but it's light and well lubricated. Low
rolling resistance and light weight are two of the three things that I
believe allow me to do some long (for me) rides on this rig (the third
being comfort).

That said, suggestions and opinions appreciated.

Prisoner at War said:

I'm wondering whether to get the Light & Motion ARC Li-Ion Ultra HID
or the NiteRider Moab HID/LED. They're both the same price but the
NiteRider burns over 50% longer at the same highest level of
brightness (if I'm reading the specs right -- in which case I'm
surprised Light & Motion haven't lowered their price at all; also, I'm
not sure what it means for the NiteRider to be "HID/LED" [according to
performancebike.com, anyway])....

TIA, folks!

You might also look at the TrailTech self-contained HID lights, i.e.
"http://www.trailtech.net/single_hid_mr11.html" and
"http://www.trailtech.net/single_hid_scmr16.html".

You have a choice of spot or flood beam patterns.

This is just the HID headlight and ballast all together, you have to add
your own 12V (nominal) battery pack and charger. You can go as expensive
or cheap as you want with batteries, depending on your needs for weight
and duration. I.e., the Powerstream Li-Ion pack, with charger, is $220,
while a 12V NiMH pack is about $35 plus $25 for a charger from
"http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=441".

These are just examples of batteries, you could also use an inexpensive
lead acid battery, i.e. "http://www.zbattery.com/bp3-12.html".

There really is no excuse for the high prices of the HID bicycle lights,
other than it's what the market will bear. The combination LED/HID is
clever, but you could always use a separate LED or dynamo light when you
just need to be seen, and stay legal and don't care about lighting up
the road.

Quoted message said:

That said, I can definately see the attraction of a hub powered
light. Have you checked the resistance of the B&M when turned on by
hand to get an idea how much drag there is? It's good to hear some
people don't notice it when riding.

I notice the B&M bottle by /noise/ rather than drag, but the SON just
makes like it isn't there, aside from the light coming on

Quoted message said:

Also, what's the weight penalty for a setup like this?

Compared to carting serious rechargeable batteries, pretty much zip, but
the downside is you're carrying the weight all the time, including when
you know it won't go dark on you. For that reason alone I wouldn't want
a SON on serious sporting machinery, but I ride a tourer with whistles,
bells and kitchen sink on board and it really doesn't bother me.

Quoted message said:

It would have been great last night, but I could see myself cursing it
on a tough climb on a sunny day.

How minimal is the rest of the bike? Unless "very" I wouldn't worry too
much. Or alternatively you could just keep your current wheel to swap
out to on a glorious day with hills and no darkness any time soon since
a SON will need a wheel build. Swapping out is simply a matter of
sliding off two spade connectors and undoing the wheel. I guess it
would be smart to tape the spare ends to the fork leg, just in case, but
it's all pretty trivial.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

It's sufficient that you wouldn't want to put one on a our-and-out racing
bike. That said, I wouldn't let the weight bother me on such a climb -
I've
got a whole lot of other [censored] as well, which indicates I generally have
other priorities.

(this applies to any fixed-in-place lighting setup)

My road bike is a 60's or 70's steel Rudge singlespeed, with fenders.
I keep my tailight on 24/7, but the headlight comes and goes as I need
it for riding, and as it's around when I need a quick flashlight. I
wouldn't call it a race bike, but it's light and well lubricated. Low
rolling resistance and light weight are two of the three things that I
believe allow me to do some long (for me) rides on this rig (the third
being comfort).

The extra weight of a dynamo set + lamp shouldn't be enough to stop you
doing long rides, unless you're very 'princess and the pea'.

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

It's sufficient that you wouldn't want to put one on a our-and-out racing
bike. That said, I wouldn't let the weight bother me on such a climb -
I've
got a whole lot of other [censored] as well, which indicates I generally have
other priorities.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(this applies to any fixed-in-place lighting setup)

Quoted message said:

My road bike is a 60's or 70's steel Rudge singlespeed, with fenders.
I keep my tailight on 24/7, but the headlight comes and goes as I need
it for riding, and as it's around when I need a quick flashlight. I
wouldn't call it a race bike, but it's light and well lubricated. Low
rolling resistance and light weight are two of the three things that I
believe allow me to do some long (for me) rides on this rig (the third
being comfort).

The extra weight of a dynamo set + lamp shouldn't be enough to stop you
doing long rides, unless you're very 'princess and the pea'.

cheers,
clive- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm a bit of a clyde, and my bike is an (abused) artifact. I'm
thinking this setup would compliment my fenders well - I'm leaning
toward going for it.

Prisoner at War said:

Bill said:

I hope that means either HID or LED because those are two different worlds.
HID is a High Intensity Discharge lamp that is bright.
LED is a Light Emitting Diode that is pretty good too.
The HID should be more expensive due to the high voltage drive
electronics but either is more reliable than a hot filament going over
the road.
Bill Baka

Nah, performancebike.com really has it listed as "HID/LED"...I'm
chalking it up to a typo.

Not sure what "a hot filament going over the road" means with respect
to reliability, though....

The Tungsten is more prone to breaking from the vibration in a bike than
in a car, and that is more than in a house light. Filaments burn out in
a supernova, LEDs may dim over years, and HIDs may dim just a bit after
a bunch of years.
Three different types of light.
Bill Baka

Bill said:

The Tungsten is more prone to breaking from the vibration in a bike than
in a car, and that is more than in a house light. Filaments burn out in
a supernova, LEDs may dim over years, and HIDs may dim just a bit after
a bunch of years.
Three different types of light.

Personally, I'd rather over-voltage a quartz-halogen lamp to achieve the
illumination level of HID, and carry a spare bulb for when it burns out
in that supernova.

For example, the TrailTech MR11 size HID is rated at 500 lumens and
draws 13 watts, and costs $115. I can buy a set of two MR16 housings, 10
watt lamps (spot and flood), and can over voltage by 10% and be at over
500 lumens, for a lot less money. If I use only one at a time, the power
consumption is actually a bit less than the HID.

All this assumes that I actually need that much illumination. Personally
I think that a lot of people are going way overboard on lighting. While
it's true that a 2.4-3 watt dynamo powered lamp isn't going to provide
sufficient illumination in most situations, there are fine
quartz-halogen or xenon rechargaeable systems available for well under
$100 that provide more than adequate illumination.

"SMS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

While it's true that a 2.4-3 watt dynamo powered lamp isn't going to
provide sufficient illumination in most situations

Oh, you were doing so well until you said that...

If you'd only put suitable caveats around your statements, such as SMS
thinks the 2.4-3W lamps are insufficient, but there are an awful lot of
people out there who find them perfectly adequate. I'm just about to go for
a ride using mine on unlit rural roads. I'll probably get to about 40mph...

cheers,
clive