Why? Why? Why? . .

Were you on the ride that goes through the eastern suburbs (e.g. doncaster rd)? I wasn't there just curious.

Dave80 said:

Were you on the ride that goes through the eastern suburbs (e.g. doncaster rd)? I wasn't there just curious.

Yup

muppet eater said:

Yup

As I said before, I wasn't there but in general it does [censored] me off to see bike riders stupidly breaking the law. I have a go at cars that break the road rules and try to kill me so I don't break them. I think it's a double standard to say cars should follow the road rules and respect the rights of cyclists, then break them yourself.

With so much media coverage lately regarding the Hell Ride incident inquest I would of thought people may start behaving a little better. . . . . maybe. There wasn't even any point to it, as I said, the bunch was just about to stop and regroup about 100m ahead. Maybe I just care too much about what happens and the way the public perceive us.

Dave80 said:

I think it's a double standard to say cars should follow the road rules and respect the rights of cyclists, then break them yourself.

I totally agree - cyclists need to respect road laws, even if they do not agree with them, just like all road users.

Idiots running reds gives all of us a bad name.

I do think we should note, though, that many cyclists on the open road don't ride without bells or relectors - which is against the law Australia-wide.

Other things in the "law" - reflectors, brakes, and lights - these all seem reasonable to me (even if a red rear reflector on your full DA carbon rig seems a bit dorky and doesn't work unless light is hitting it at the right angle, and even if you can stop better on a fixie without brakes than with).

Bells are plain stupid, though. They're useless in traffic, and less audible than calling out "passing" if you are riding with a person less than 12 years on the footpath.

Nevertheless, I have installed one after the insurance company of one motorist who hit me a while back refused to pay up for the damage - because the bike was not fitted with a bell or standards approved reflectors and therefore was not a "roadworthy vehicle" and should not have been on the road. One would have thought that at 8:30am in peak hour traffic on a busy road, neither would have been an issue, particularly since I had flashing rear lights on (even in the daytime), and 3M reflective stickers all over the frame, fork legs, and rack tubes.

It wasn't worth taking to court for the cost of the bicycle, so I copped it.

Point being - the law is the law - and unless you can lobby to get it changed, you should respect it even if you disagree with it.

n

Running redlights is plain stupid - as you say gives us all a bad name - motorists are often eager to get one over on cyclists to start with. I don't necessarily agree that bells are useless though - OK, maybe in heavy traffic - but there are many other times when it will be heard, by pedestrians especially. The bell on my new Thorn Raven is very high-pitched and pretty audible I would say, so some are plainly better than others. And there's always air horns LOL.

We are our own worst enemy. Car drivers hate us because of a few people's behaviour.

I received several 'thumbs up', honking with smiles and general approval about 4 weeks ago when I abused two riders who went around me (while I was stopped waiting) at the red light and went straight through the intersection.

There are MORONS who'll never get it!😠

i bet they'll be the first to complain when a car comes through the other way and skittles them...
law of natural selection should take care of them.

i like my skin and my bike too much to run a red light 🙂

Nerdag, that's interesting...I get the not-equipped bell part as point of law, but didn't the 3M reflective tape count as a reflector?

StankApe said:

didn't the 3M reflective tape count as a reflector?

3M tape isn't standards approved (even though its sh!tloads better and brighter).

The law requires an Australian Standards approved reflector with the tick logo.

n

Good thread guys. Do you guys mean riders crossing a light from a bike path as well though? I see hordes of Perth cyclists cross when the red bike or red man light is showing. It seems like the norm rather than the exception.

muppet eater said:

Will punters never learn?

I was there, I think; are you talking about any intersections inparticular?

by the way, it's amazing how much easier that ride was after losing only 2kg!! 🙂

nerdag said:

3M tape isn't standards approved (even though its sh!tloads better and brighter).

The law requires an Australian Standards approved reflector with the tick logo.

n

gotcha

531Aussie said:

I was there, I think; are you talking about any intersections inparticular?

It was at the top of Doncaster rd and then again by the same individuals at the lights that come out of the car park of the shoppingtown. I was 4th up to the top, the first two guys went straight through the red. A little while later with the bunch building behind us some dude just went straight around the bunch, through the traffic and through the light. There's no glory getting to the regroup point first if you didn't get up the hill first.

I'm just sick of getting abuse and [censored] hurled at me daily because of the actions of others.

StankApe said:

gotcha

Muppet - firstly, sorry for the thread hijack.

Stank - actually, you got me thinking and on second reading of the law (see here), there's nothing in it that specifies any particular certified standard for reflectors - only that they must be visible from 50m on low beam. There's nothing that specifies a minimum size, either.

I figured that since the reflectors on my commuter bike now have a tick logo on them, that there must have been a minimum certifiable standard.

There's also no requirement for reflectors or lights during the day either - only at night.

The bell/horn and brake requirements apply at all times, however.

Although the 3M tape I had on the bike is silver in colour (i.e. not red), it wasn't required during the day. Having said that, I wouldn't have been able to challenge the insurance company on the basis of not having a bell, despite its uselessness in peak hour traffic, and also being hit from behind.

Should have checked it back in 2002... rah.

Anyway, so now I am thinking that I don't need a full blown reflector on the back of my roadie to satisfy the law - red 3M tape that is 3cm or so in width should do. Of course, lights and a bell are also required if riding at night =)

n

This ride used to be the best behaved in Melbourne. I've been doing it for years but have seen a massive explosion of numbers this summer bringing with it some reckless behaviour.

muppet eater said:

This ride used to be the best behaved in Melbourne. I've been doing it for years but have seen a massive explosion of numbers this summer bringing with it some reckless behaviour.

I agree, and I said as much on the Bicycle Vic forum, describing it as a big mess and a shambles, but a couple of dudes somewhat howled me down, saying how "great" it is to ride in a massive bunch.

it used to be my favourite ride, but now, on a warm summer night, it just a shambles -- it's too big. People seem to run more red lights and take up more than one lane on some of the hills. I did it a few months ago and heaps of dudes were using the second lane up the Doncaster Rd hill! I waited 'till the end of daylight savings so the numbers would drop, which I think they did -- how many do you reckon were there on Thursday? 50?

I don't understand ANY benefit of doing such a training ride with 50+ riders, as opposed to 20 riders...????? I reckon they should split in half, but then there'd obviously be the problem of everyone wanting to be in the front group ,coz eveyone thinks they're fast 🙂