Why? Why? Why? . .

nerdag said:

Muppet - firstly, sorry for the thread hijack.

Stank - actually, you got me thinking and on second reading of the law (see here), there's nothing in it that specifies any particular certified standard for reflectors - only that they must be visible from 50m on low beam. There's nothing that specifies a minimum size, either.

I figured that since the reflectors on my commuter bike now have a tick logo on them, that there must have been a minimum certifiable standard.

There's also no requirement for reflectors or lights during the day either - only at night.

The bell/horn and brake requirements apply at all times, however.

Although the 3M tape I had on the bike is silver in colour (i.e. not red), it wasn't required during the day. Having said that, I wouldn't have been able to challenge the insurance company on the basis of not having a bell, despite its uselessness in peak hour traffic, and also being hit from behind.

Should have checked it back in 2002... rah.

Anyway, so now I am thinking that I don't need a full blown reflector on the back of my roadie to satisfy the law - red 3M tape that is 3cm or so in width should do. Of course, lights and a bell are also required if riding at night =)

n

You think this tape would be legal? Stuck on the seatpost as a reflector: cgi.ebay.com.aueBayISAPI.dllOpen ↗

Anyone know the smallest bell available?

You got me thinking to get some red tape to augment the 3M white strips, large blinkie and reflector tails, thanks 🙂

JeremyP said:

Anyone know the smallest bell available?

yeah, if you have an uncovered, external rear brake cable, you can "ding" it against your top-tube. 🙂

JeremyP said:

You think this tape would be legal? Stuck on the seatpost as a reflector: cgi.ebay.com.aueBayISAPI.dllOpen ↗

Anyone know the smallest bell available?

I've separated the threads - my answer is here:
cyclingforums.comshowthread.phpOpen ↗

n

531Aussie said:

it used to be my favourite ride, but now, on a warm summer night, it just a shambles -- it's too big. People seem to run more red lights and take up more than one lane on some of the hills. I did it a few months ago and heaps of dudes were using the second lane up the Doncaster Rd hill! I waited 'till the end of daylight savings so the numbers would drop, which I think they did -- how many do you reckon were there on Thursday? 50?

I don't understand ANY benefit of doing such a training ride with 50+ riders, as opposed to 20 riders...????? I reckon they should split in half, but then there'd obviously be the problem of everyone wanting to be in the front group ,coz eveyone thinks they're fast 🙂

I hear the ride has actually split with some leaving at 6pm instead of 6:30. Also, I don't want the word to get out so everybody shhhhh 😉 , there's a good group doing it on a Tues night. I'll just see how it goes over winter, hopefully when it gets cold it'll thin out.

I was talking to some of the guys on my team the other day how things seem to have changed and there's more muppets out there but then got to thinking: have the rides changed or have I just developed as a cyclist? It's an interesting point cause I think you are very eager when you start out and bunch rides are your only outlet until you are racing and developing your skills a little more.

Chill out. That includes you Nev you sook [img]cyclingforums.comtongue.gifOpen ↗[/img]. Listen its the same arguement pedalled by nationalist turds who harp on about....when you are overseas you represent the entire population of Australia and when you act like a goose you make us all look bad...what a crock of [censored]. A motorist will come across a lot of cyclists in their lifetime of driving. When they encounter a random idiot cyclist they will likely get angry at that one individual and think wow he is a fool. They will not instantly transform into a general cyclist hating cager. That is a highly irrational line of thought. I reckon some of you blokes spend too long on your bikes over too many years that you just end up a bunch of lycra clad middle aged sooks.[img]cyclingforums.comtongue.gifOpen ↗[/img]

Just take charge of yourself, act in a responsible manner, educate others when you can, accept the fact you live in society that enshrines the concept of freedom of choice, then get on with the rest of your life.

Having said all that here is my solution (as I do think things could be improved). Firstly legislate against large group rides on public roads without a permit. Im talking bunches over 50. Cops can stop these bunches and ask to see the permit. No permit equals a big fine for everyone booked. Something in the order of $500. Most guys wont risk that. Cops would only have to bust up and fine a few bunches and the word would get out that its a big no no.

Then make permits for bigger bunch rides available only to licenced cycling clubs. A bunch with a permit that behaves badly can lead to the cycling club having their licence to operate revoked and even their club completely disbanded. This creates a big onus on the clubs and the riders to behave. It also makes the job of the Police much easier. They can simply take photos of illegal conduct on a group ride. Then look up the permit holder of the ride (say CCCC) and issue a fine of $1000 direct to the clubs. You watch how fast things smartened up then. It also may force more muppets to actually join clubs so they can do the group rides and then the clubs can educate more effectively internally and get a broader revenue base through membership.

The answer to better muppet behaviour is to turn them into cycling club members. A least you can open up a non threatening line of communication about riding conduct. I am probably wrong.

existence said:

I am probably wrong.

Not this time 😉 , I think this is a superb idea.

existence said:

Chill out. That includes you Nev you sook [img]cyclingforums.comtongue.gifOpen ↗[/img]. Listen its the same arguement pedalled by nationalist turds who harp on about....when you are overseas you represent the entire population of Australia and when you act like a goose you make us all look bad...what a crock of [censored]. A motorist will come across a lot of cyclists in their lifetime of driving. When they encounter a random idiot cyclist they will likely get angry at that one individual and think wow he is a fool. They will not instantly transform into a general cyclist hating cager. That is a highly irrational line of thought. I reckon some of you blokes spend too long on your bikes over too many years that you just end up a bunch of lycra clad middle aged sooks.[img]cyclingforums.comtongue.gifOpen ↗[/img]

I totally disagree with this, you only had to look at the change in behaviour of motorists after the Hell Ride incident, I came back from a week training at Hotham to have cars swerving at me, bottles thrown out windows and the like. It's a simple fact: Motorists HATE us, ask any non cycling motorist you know about their views and you'll get the same response every time.

existence said:

Having said all that here is my solution (as I do think things could be improved). Firstly legislate against large group rides on public roads without a permit. Im talking bunches over 50. Cops can stop these bunches and ask to see the permit. No permit equals a big fine for everyone booked. Something in the order of $500. Most guys wont risk that. Cops would only have to bust up and fine a few bunches and the word would get out that its a big no no.

Then make permits for bigger bunch rides available only to licenced cycling clubs. A bunch with a permit that behaves badly can lead to the cycling club having their licence to operate revoked and even their club completely disbanded. This creates a big onus on the clubs and the riders to behave. It also makes the job of the Police much easier. They can simply take photos of illegal conduct on a group ride. Then look up the permit holder of the ride (say CCCC) and issue a fine of $1000 direct to the clubs. You watch how fast things smartened up then. It also may force more muppets to actually join clubs so they can do the group rides and then the clubs can educate more effectively internally and get a broader revenue base through membership.

The answer to better muppet behaviour is to turn them into cycling club members. A least you can open up a non threatening line of communication about riding conduct. I am probably wrong.

Do you seriously think this could work? No club would want the insurance hastle of supporting training rides like these. It's not the number of cyclists, or the type of training it is, it's the brain dead people who just can't seem to follow really simple road rules that is the problem. Anyway. .

muppet eater said:

... it's the brain dead people who just can't seem to follow really simple road rules that is the problem. Anyway. .

True...but there will always be a certain percentage of idiots in any population...can't seem to stop them breeding so we might as well legislate them out of the scene.

muppet eater said:

I hear the ride has actually split . . .
etc

If this is true, you would be wise to edit your post and remove the details! 😉

My experience with bunch riding is mostly with smaller groups, but the recent increase in crashes on the North Rd ride would suggest to me that the recent increase in the popularity of cycling has increased participation by those who don't know a lot about the norms of bunch riding, recovery pace etc.

muppet eater said:

I hear the ride has actually split with some leaving at 6pm instead of 6:30. Also, I don't want the word to get out so everybody shhhhh 😉 , there's a good group doing it on a Tues night. I'll just see how it goes .?.

grouse! I'll be on the lookout :p

muppet eater said:

I was talking to some of the guys on my team the other day how things seem to have changed and there's more muppets out there but then got to thinking: have the rides changed or have I just developed as a cyclist?.

I'm obviously not saying you haven't improved, but 2 of the rides I do have definitely changed: the ride we're talking about, and the Tues night Beach Rd ride. When I first started doing those rides about 3 or 4 years ago there were some monster riders there, but most of them have dropped off as more and more peanuts found out about them. The Tues night ride used to be pretty fast, but now you can sit at the back at chat to someone if ya want 🙂

531Aussie said:

The Tues night ride used to be pretty fast, but now you can sit at the back at chat to someone if ya want 🙂

Ah, I remember the days when people used to shudder at the pain they were about to go through when the likes of Jules from BikeNOW rolled up and maybe half a dozen people finished as a bunch.

I honestly don't know what the solution is to making people better riders. It's just time on the bike and you can't get that without mixing it with riders of a better level either training or racing. I think racing is a great way to get your skill level up and you're out there smashing with people of the same level as you progress through the grades. Not everyone wants to race though and you can't stop people turning up to bunch rides

The road rules issue is black and white - not GREY. There's a lot of egos in cycling but I think it's up to the more experienced guys to set an example and encourage good behaviour out of the rest whether they be 16 or 46.

Despite what others have said, I believe that actions of riders (road cyclist) out on the road affects all of us. You only need to read the editorials in the paper or see the reaction of readers if a cyclist has the nuts to write in.

I just don't want to get killed doing the sport I love and I ultimately want respect from other road users. I have know where else to train except on public roads, riding a 50km/h on a bike path is good fun but. . . .

muppet eater said:

Ah, I remember the days when people used to shudder at the pain they were about to go through when the likes of Jules from BikeNOW rolled up and maybe half a dozen people finished as a bunch.
. .

HA! 🙂 He's one of the strongest dudes I've ever seen on Beach Rd. I was telling Existence about him a while ago; and now he's apparently quit? Wow!

531Aussie said:

HA! 🙂 He's one of the strongest dudes I've ever seen on Beach Rd. I was telling Existence about him a while ago; and now he's apparently quit? Wow!

Yeah he was riding along one day loving life on beach rd eating muppets and then he came across me and I smashed him so he cried and basically just gave up. 🙂

Ok. So I maybe made that up. [img]cyclingforums.comtongue.gifOpen ↗[/img]

existence said:

Having said all that here is my solution (as I do think things could be improved). Firstly legislate against large group rides on public roads without a permit. Im talking bunches over 50. Cops can stop these bunches and ask to see the permit. No permit equals a big fine for everyone booked. Something in the order of $500. Most guys wont risk that. Cops would only have to bust up and fine a few bunches and the word would get out that its a big no no.

I'm not sure about permits and fines, but i reckon the cops could simply stop huge bunches and say: "this is just too farkin big -- half of yuz [censored] that way and the rest of yooz [censored] the other way"

Having 80 riders all trying to get through a green turning arrow is ridiculous, which is when a lot of the 'red light' problems start...

531Aussie said:

I'm not sure about permits and fines, but i reckon the cops could simply stop huge bunches and say: "this is just too farkin big -- half of yuz [censored] that way and the rest of yooz [censored] the other way"

Having 80 riders all trying to get through a green turning arrow is ridiculous, which is when a lot of the 'red light' problems start...

One bunch that is a bit of joke is the hell ride - you get about 40 odd blokes who should be there and then you get a whole bunch of poofs and [censored] who drop off before olivers (WTF????) or do a [censored] u-turn at the top of Olivers - all so they can pick up the real bunch on the return trip.

If you get dropped you get dropped in my book. Doing little u-turns to get back on only to get dropped again is just stupidity personified....