Race wheels

Quoted message said:

I am in the market for a new set of race wheels.
My old set are Bontrager race x lite with conti sprinters and D/A 10
spd.
I race mainly in the midwest. Lots of fast flat crits. The road races
are rolling hills with some short steep climbs. Often the wind is a
big factor.

Thanks

Deep section aero is good.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

I am in the market for a new set of race wheels.
My old set are Bontrager race x lite with conti sprinters and D/A 10
spd.
I race mainly in the midwest. Lots of fast flat crits. The road races
are rolling hills with some short steep climbs. Often the wind is a
big factor.

Thanks

If price is not a big deal I would look into Zipp. If it is, then I
would look into a deep section rim like velocity deep V, dt rr1.2, or
ird cadence aero and lace them with bladed spokes.
Steve Sauter

Sandy said:

In February 2007 issue of Le Cycle, of 100 road tires tested, tubulars took
the top 4 spots, and all 10 tubulars tested fell within the top 17, for
rolling resistance. In spite of the test results, I am lazy and ride
clinchers (Michelin Pro2Race, top ranked in this test series).

Very interesting... How did they test them?

Sandy said:

In February 2007 issue of Le Cycle, of 100 road tires tested, tubulars took
the top 4 spots, and all 10 tubulars tested fell within the top 17, for
rolling resistance.

How was this test done? All tyres at the same pressure and with the
same load? I doubt it, as there are many relatively sluggish tubulars
on the market, construction-wise. But please, share the data?

Tubulars commonly allow for higher pressures, so if you're willing
to make the sacrifice in comfort tubulars are clearly the way to go.
At least on the roads I ride on I can safely say that for example
10 bar is faster than 8.

Antti

jim beam said:

what are you - some kind of heretic?

I wouldn't mind seeing a good test that shows tubulars are better...
the two I referenced are modern and do not have anything to do with
Jobst... and they both show that clinchers are better. Both were
performed on rollers. I've always wondered if at least some tubulars
might be better if hard glue was used... or maybe there is some
"magical" vibration absorbtion that the gooey glue provides on real
pavement that compensates for the hysteresis losses. Most pros are
still using them, and I presume that some (like Lance) might have
tested these and found them to be faster. But I don't know if Sandy
will give us any info... anyone else?

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

In February 2007 issue of Le Cycle, of 100 road tires tested,
tubulars took the top 4 spots, and all 10 tubulars tested fell
within the top 17, for rolling resistance.

How was this test done? All tyres at the same pressure and with the
same load? I doubt it, as there are many relatively sluggish tubulars
on the market, construction-wise.

ALL tires, tubular or not, at 8 bar, all mounted on the same wheel for all
the testing done, all with the same load. The two other test elements were
weight (for those who care) and traction at lean.

Quoted message said:

But please, share the data?

Lazy - 100 tires.

--
Sandy
--
Ce message, issu de l'agriculture biologique, a été rédigé avec des
électrons recyclés. En conséquence, il est possible que des fautes
d'orthographes s'y soient malencontreusement glissées.

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Sandy <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis
a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

In February 2007 issue of Le Cycle, of 100 road tires tested,
tubulars took the top 4 spots, and all 10 tubulars tested fell
within the top 17, for rolling resistance.

How was this test done? All tyres at the same pressure and with the
same load? I doubt it, as there are many relatively sluggish tubulars
on the market, construction-wise.

ALL tires, tubular or not, at 8 bar, all mounted on the same wheel
for all the testing done

Evidently, not the same wheel for the two categories. One tubular rim for
all tubulars; one clincher rim for all clinchers; one "tubeless" rim for the
tubeless. The article went into less detail on the procedure, but noted
that it differs slightly from the magazine's last testing, 2 years ago.

Sorry to have followed my own posting.
--
--
Sandy

--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Sandy <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis
a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But please, share the data?

Lazy - 100 tires.

Actually, not just lazy. You have the reference. It is not a web
reference. It is not free of charge. It carries copyright conditions. I
am not going to steal from another person's pocket. These comments are
intended (which will have no real effect) to cut short demands for data, to
discourage others from violating copyright law, and to bring to focus the
lack of critical thinking that is all too common in this newsgroup.

Just because it is on the web, that does not confer authority. Wiki
yourself to death, as you like. It is amusing, also, to have lurked for a
while, watching the inevitable exchange of vitriol between personae (there
is no greater "reality" in the electrons you see here), all based on the
risible premise that because someone deigns to author some phrases here, it
is to be taken seriously.

Two self-follow-ups is not excusable. Hang me for it.

--
Sandy
-
"Our knowledge is a little island in a great ocean of non-knowledge."
- Edward O. Wilson

Sandy said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Sandy <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis
a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But please, share the data?

Lazy - 100 tires.

Actually, not just lazy. You have the reference. It is not a web
reference. It is not free of charge. It carries copyright conditions. I
am not going to steal from another person's pocket. These comments are
intended (which will have no real effect) to cut short demands for data, to
discourage others from violating copyright law, and to bring to focus the
lack of critical thinking that is all too common in this newsgroup.

Wow, it was a question Sandy not a demand. A simple 'for the complete
data you have to buy the magazine' would be enough and I would agree
with you.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)

Sandy said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Sandy <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis
a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But please, share the data?

Lazy - 100 tires.

Actually, not just lazy. You have the reference. It is not a web
reference. It is not free of charge. It carries copyright conditions. I
am not going to steal from another person's pocket. These comments are
intended (which will have no real effect) to cut short demands for data, to
discourage others from violating copyright law, and to bring to focus the
lack of critical thinking that is all too common in this newsgroup.

Copyright means you shouldn't paste the text, it doesn't stop you
sharing the facts.

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Ben C <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Sandy <[email hidden]> a rflchi, et puis a dclar :

Quoted message said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> a rflchi, et puis
a dclar :

Quoted message said:

> But please, share the data?

Lazy - 100 tires.

Actually, not just lazy. You have the reference. It is not a web
reference. It is not free of charge. It carries copyright
conditions. I am not going to steal from another person's pocket.
These comments are intended (which will have no real effect) to cut
short demands for data, to discourage others from violating
copyright law, and to bring to focus the lack of critical thinking
that is all too common in this newsgroup.

Copyright means you shouldn't paste the text, it doesn't stop you
sharing the facts.

Sorry to Lou - I did not mean to direct it to you specifically.

As to Ben, grow up. You're wrong. And probably cheap.
--
Sandy
--
S'endormir au volant, c'est très dangereux.
S'endormir à vélo, c'est très rare.
S'endormir à pied, c'est très con.
- Geluck, P.

Sandy said:

Actually, not just lazy. You have the reference. It is not a web
reference. It is not free of charge. It carries copyright conditions. I
am not going to steal from another person's pocket.

The problem of course is that I don't think the magazine is available
anywhere here. I'll check the best magazine stand in the country next
week, but I'm not very optimistic. Besides, while I'm not an expert on
copyright law, but I doubt quoting some of the article here illegal.

I tried to check www.lecycle.fr to see if the article is available
online, but it doesnt seem to be responding.

Going back to the subject though, my friend performed some rolling
resistance tests in his home using a set of rollers and a PowerTap hub.
Here are the results:

http://83.145.209.9/cycling/rengastesti.jpg

Tyres were tested at 8 bar, except Vittoria Open Corsa evidently also at
10 bar, and with the same bike and rider. Judging by the (mostly) linear
shape of the curves it seems that the aerodynamic drag of the wheels
becomes significant only at high speeds. Also, if you compare these
numbers with the ones published by the magazine "Tour" from their
testing at the Continental factory, the order of the tyres is the same.

-as

Sandy said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Ben C <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Copyright means you shouldn't paste the text, it doesn't stop you
sharing the facts.

Sorry to Lou - I did not mean to direct it to you specifically.

As to Ben, grow up. You're wrong.

No, he is correct.

Facts are not copyrightable.

Their presentation is.

Quoted message said:

I am in the market for a new set of race wheels.
My old set are Bontrager race x lite with conti sprinters and D/A 10
spd.
I race mainly in the midwest. Lots of fast flat crits. The road races
are rolling hills with some short steep climbs. Often the wind is a
big factor.

Thanks

What do you want the 'new' wheels to do that your 'old' wheels aren't
doing??

Ron Ruff said:

jim beam said:

what are you - some kind of heretic?

I wouldn't mind seeing a good test that shows tubulars are better...
the two I referenced are modern and do not have anything to do with
Jobst... and they both show that clinchers are better. Both were
performed on rollers. I've always wondered if at least some tubulars
might be better if hard glue was used... or maybe there is some
"magical" vibration absorbtion that the gooey glue provides on real
pavement that compensates for the hysteresis losses. Most pros are
still using them, and I presume that some (like Lance) might have
tested these and found them to be faster. But I don't know if Sandy
will give us any info... anyone else?

What's 'better'? RR wise(small differences) or the real reason anybody
would want to use a tubie? The OP says he does crits, lots of
highspeed turning. Tubulars are clearly a better tire for high speed
cornering and they are safer. Clincher goes flat, it comes off the rim
in a turn, you crash. Tubies will not( anybody know the year when
Indurain was second in the race, on a flat tire for the last km?)

RR are one and small part of tire type to choose. Advantages of tubies
in other areas clearly outshine the 'percieved' diadvantages in RR,
often in testing, not there.

On Mar 11, 8:29 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am in the market for a new set of race wheels.
My old set are Bontrager race x lite with conti sprinters and D/A 10
spd.
I race mainly in the midwest. Lots of fast flat crits. The road races
are rolling hills with some short steep climbs. Often the wind is a
big factor.

Quoted message said:

Thanks

What do you want the 'new' wheels to do that your 'old' wheels aren't
doing??

I like my old set of race wheels.
It seems that the current trend is to a deeper V rim type.
I want to stay with tubulars. I have much more confidence in them.
I've seen to many clincher blow outs in races which always results in
a crash!

On Mar 11, 6:35 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Tubulars are clearly a better tire for high speed
cornering and they are safer. Clincher goes flat, it comes off the rim
in a turn, you crash.

I've had plenty of flat tires but they have *never* caused a crash. If
a clincher goes flat, then you quit riding on it! I don't think you'd
want to be cornering on a flat tubie either. The only time a tire has
caused me to crash was when a tubular rolled off in a turn during a
race. I've never had or seen a clincher "blow off"... not even in
crashes if the rim stays intact.

Quoted message said:

Tubies will not( anybody know the year when
Indurain was second in the race, on a flat tire for the last km?)

I saw a video of Olano winning the WC RR in Columbia on a rear flat...

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

What's 'better'? RR wise(small differences) or the real reason anybody
would want to use a tubie? The OP says he does crits, lots of
highspeed turning. Tubulars are clearly a better tire for high speed
cornering and they are safer. Clincher goes flat, it comes off the rim
in a turn, you crash. Tubies will not( anybody know the year when
Indurain was second in the race, on a flat tire for the last km?)

I was in a crit, 2nd wheel around a corner late in the race, when the
guy in front rolled his tubular. The glue was soft from the heat. He
crashed, I crashed. Broken collarbone.

Wayne

In article <[email hidden]>,

Sandy said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Sandy <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis
a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But please, share the data?

Lazy - 100 tires.

Actually, not just lazy. You have the reference. It is not a web
reference. It is not free of charge. It carries copyright conditions. I
am not going to steal from another person's pocket. These comments are
intended (which will have no real effect) to cut short demands for data, to
discourage others from violating copyright law, and to bring to focus the
lack of critical thinking that is all too common in this newsgroup.

Just because it is on the web, that does not confer authority. Wiki
yourself to death, as you like. It is amusing, also, to have lurked for a
while, watching the inevitable exchange of vitriol between personae (there
is no greater "reality" in the electrons you see here), all based on the
risible premise that because someone deigns to author some phrases here, it
is to be taken seriously.

Two self-follow-ups is not excusable. Hang me for it.

Who are you to criticize others for criticizing?
Start lurking again or start acting as if
you are no better than anybody else.