Hun again

Their daily poll is about the St Kilda bike lanes too;
car lervers seem to have got an early lead

news.com.auopinionOpen ↗

2nd column, down a bit...

flyingdutch said:

Their daily poll is about the St Kilda bike lanes too;
car lervers seem to have got an early lead

news.com.auopinionOpen ↗

2nd column, down a bit...

dang link...

I was walking across Swanston st from Melbourne Uni yesterday, and they were just finishing installing one of these lanes heading towards the city. Most cyclists were just riding down the road. Until they put signs up, it's not exactly clear what the lane does.

PiledHigher said:

The online versiond doesn't do justice to the stupidity of the paper
version. Showed a mockup photo with parking lane replaced wioth bike
lane and said, how will the traffic flow. Quick tip the traffic isn't
flowing when the cars are parked!!!!

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21310065-2862,00.html

Seeing that today is my official Day of Rest I missed the discussions on 3AW & 774 about the proposed lanes. Although from a couple of emails & txt messages I've received, it seems that the Vic Minister for Roads needs to lift his game, considering all the lovely (election) promises made in last years Transport and Liveability Statement. Off to investigate after a coffee.

flyingdutch said:

Their daily poll is about the St Kilda bike lanes too;
car lervers seem to have got an early lead

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/opinion

2nd column, down a bit...

As at 1030hrs:

Thanks for voting, here are the results so far:

Are the proposed changes to St Kilda Rd a good idea?

Yes
20% (65 votes)
No
79% (253 votes)
Total votes
Total of 318 votes

PiledHigher said:

The online versiond doesn't do justice to the stupidity of the paper
version. Showed a mockup photo with parking lane replaced wioth bike
lane and said, how will the traffic flow. Quick tip the traffic isn't
flowing when the cars are parked!!!!

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21310065-2862,00.html

thank goodness for the concrete barriers, otherwise the traffic will use it as an additional lane, as happens on Blackburn Rd leading up to the Burwood Rd intersection. I am dreading the day a cyclist is actually using the lane when 10 cars (starting several 100ms back from the intersection) come roaring up the bike only lane as a shortcut (of what? 2 seconds??) to the left hand lanes at the intersection.

PiledHigher said:

The online versiond doesn't do justice to the stupidity of the paper
version. Showed a mockup photo with parking lane replaced wioth bike
lane and said, how will the traffic flow. Quick tip the traffic isn't
flowing when the cars are parked!!!!

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21310065-2862,00.html

here is The Age's take on it:

tinyurl.com2hnrv4Open ↗

flyingdutch said:

dang link...

I've done my bit:-)

Here's what I've sent out, feel free to use it or pass on. 😉

****

Hi all,

There's been quite a bit of discussion today in the media regarding the proposed Copenhagen bicycle lanes for St Kilda Road. Unfortunately it now seems that Roads Minister Tim Pallas has effectively blocked Melbourne Councils' proposal whether these planned improvements will be allowed to even proceed to public consultation.

MCC:Copenhagen bike lanes
[url]http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=70&pa=1154&pg=3476/url]

News articles from today: The Age: Elms to be replaced on St Kilda Rd
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/elms-to-be-replaced-on-st-kilda-rd/2007/\ 03/01/1172338796101.html

Herald Sun: Road plan to push bikes
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21310065-661,00.html

Online poll - middle of page, scroll down to below American Express ad:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/opinion

Many of us will remember all those nice election statements made in last years Transport and Liveability Statement. Should Tim Pallas now be questioned to whether these were core or non-core promises, that still include cycling as a important transport option?

Steve Bracks: Transport and Livability Statement - 17 May 2006
http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/Newsroom/Speech_item.asp?id=143

BV: Transport and Liveability Statement
http://www.bv.com.au/change-the-world/12064

Now the proposal may not even reach public consultation, due to Tim Pallas blocking Melbourne Council. MCC will be discussing the issue on Tuesday, see here for more details: Attending meetings, making submissions and minutes:
http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=247&pg=2006

Schedule of Meetings
http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=247&pg=3325

If you have an opinion about these proposed lanes, then please show your support for improvements to one of Melbourne's most popular bicycle routes, and immediately contact Tim Pallas, as well as show your support to VicRoads,Yarra Trams, Department of Infrastructure, Melb City Council, Port Phillip Council and Bicycle Victoria.

Please forward this email onto anyone you know who would be supportive of the proposed Copenhagen lanes and future improvements to Melbournes bicycle network.


***

Tim Pallas - Minister for Roads and Ports
Ministeral Office, Level 23, 80 Collins St, Melbourne Vic 3000
Tel: 9655 6210, Fax: 9655 6641 Email: [email hidden]

Bicycle Victoria
PO Box 426, Collins St West, Victoria 8007
Ph (03) 8636 8888, Fax 8636 8800 Freecall 1800 639 634 (country callers)
Email: [email hidden]

City of Melbourne
PO Box 1603, Melbourne Vic 3001
Tel: 9658 9658, Fax:: 9654 4854
Online contact page:
http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=23&pg=3454

VicRoads
Online Feedback & Enquiries:
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/AboutVicRoads/ContactUs/FeedbackAndEnquirie\ s.htm

Yarra Trams
Online Form: http://www.yarratrams.com.au/default.jsp?xcid=42

DoI:
Online Contact form:
http://www.doi.vic.gov.au/doi/internet/home.nsf/HeadingPagesDisplay/Contact+Us?\ opendocument

Port Phillip Council:
http://www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/contact_us.html

It's disappointing that people are (still) so stupid....

ghostgum said:

As at 1030hrs:

Thanks for voting, here are the results so far:

Are the proposed changes to St Kilda Rd a good idea?

Yes
20% (65 votes)

No
79% (253 votes)
Total votes

Total of 318 votes

A nine goal wind has sprung up in the final quarter (17:16pm)

Poll Results

Thanks for voting, here are the results so far:

Are the proposed changes to St Kilda Rd a good idea?

Yes 57% (1803 votes)

No 42% (1337 votes)

Total votes
Total of 3140 votes

cfsmtb said:

ghostgum said:

As at 1030hrs:

Thanks for voting, here are the results so far:

Are the proposed changes to St Kilda Rd a good idea?

Yes
20% (65 votes)

No
79% (253 votes)
Total votes

Total of 318 votes

A nine goal wind has sprung up in the final quarter (17:16pm)

Poll Results

Thanks for voting, here are the results so far:

Are the proposed changes to St Kilda Rd a good idea?

Yes 57% (1803 votes)

No 42% (1337 votes)

Total votes
Total of 3140 votes

That is a lot of votes for a Hun poll.

[font=Times]For those who havnt seen the Bike Plan 2007-2011[/font]
[font=Times]here is so much of it as relates to St Kilda Rd. [/font]
[font=Times][/font]
[font=Times] In the overall scheme of things nothing will be happening to StKilda Rd until 2010 (unless this storm and matters afoot and a huge increase in numbers of commuting riders who make the exisiting bike lane need to be widened etc.... etc, bring it forward and the Min for Roads gets on a bike as he was told to do today by Radio 774 and actually see the debacle from a commuting cycling viewpoint...)[/font]
[font=Times][/font]
[font=Times][/font]
[font=Times][/font]
[font=Times]Except from Melb City Bike Plan 2007-2011[/font]
[font=Times]See orig doc at : [/font][font=Verdana]tinyurl.com34kl4kOpen ↗ [/font][font=Times][/font]

[font=Times] [/font]

[font=Times] [/font]

[font=Times] 36.1 St.Kilda Road[/font][font=Times]. St.Kilda Road is a major north/south link that connects into Swanston Street and crosses the Yarra River at Princes Bridge. Due to the significance of St.Kilda Road as a major link in the bicycle network it may require special treatment. Crashes and other conflicts between parked vehicles and cyclists occur. A car door opened without warning is enough to force cyclists to move into the traffic lane. There are areas of St.Kilda Road where the bicycle lane disappears at the approach to an intersection (eg. Commercial Road). This site in particular will be treated to improve the line of separation from vehicles. Although the options require further investigation, this treatment is likely to include a vibraline (sometimes referred to as a ‘rumble strip’) and coloured pavement to discourage motorists moving into the bicycle lane; [/font]

[font=Times] [/font]

[font='Franklin Gothic Medium']Actions [/font]

[font='Franklin Gothic Medium']The City of Melbourne will:[/font]

[font='Franklin Gothic Medium'] [/font]

[font='Courier New']o [/font][font='Franklin Gothic Medium']audit each of the above ‘quality’, ‘economy’ and ‘recreational’ cycling routes and add initiatives into its capital works program for completion;[/font]

[font='Courier New']o [/font][font='Franklin Gothic Medium']meet with VicRoads to discuss possible improvements for cyclists crossing the Hoddle Street intersection (and other major intersections as required);[/font]

[font='Courier New']o [/font][font='Franklin Gothic Medium']Assess the need for bicycle paths at Parkville Gardens before this area becomes established.[/font]

[font=Times] [/font]

[font='Franklin Gothic Medium']The City of Melbourne will:[/font]

[font='Franklin Gothic Medium'] [/font]

[font='Courier New']o [/font][font='Franklin Gothic Medium']undertake an audit to assess the best locations for new bicycle routes in Docklands and Port Melbourne;[/font]

[font='Franklin Gothic Medium']investigate all of the areas where network connections need to be improved or better maintained in consultation with other stakeholders and undertake improvement works as appropriate.[/font]

[font='Franklin Gothic Medium'] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Opportunities[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]44. The City of Melbourne will continue to explore ways to establish bicycle routes through and into the CBD. The possible operation of dedicated bicycle lanes will be checked against a CBD Transport Model due for completion in 2007. The software is used for traffic planning allowing for the impact of any change to existing traffic conditions (eg. reallocating road space) to be calculated.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Injuries to Cyclists[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]51. The number of injuries incurred by cyclists within the City of Melbourne is increasing (see Table below). This is a recent trend with injury numbers in the five years before 2004 relatively stable. Some of the growth is likely to be due to increased use of the road by cyclists. [/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times]52. The mid-block section with the highest number of crashes on average per year per kilometre was a 120 metre section of Swanston Street/ St.Kilda Road south of the Flinders Street Station on the west side where cyclists travelled into the City. The most common crash type occurred when car doors were opened in a cyclist’s path. This crash type accounted for 78% of crashes at this site. This collision is one that commonly happens in bicycle lanes when cyclists ride adjacent to parked cars. The reason for the high number of crashes in this area will be further investigated and action taken to reduce the number. Other ‘black spot’ locations include Collins Street mid block (car door collisions) and the Haymarket roundabout.[/font]

[font=Times] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font='Franklin Gothic Medium']A FIVE YEAR IMPLEMENTATION PLAN – YEAR FOUR - 2010[/font]

[font=Times]St.Kilda Road[/font][font=Times] – complete investigation into ways of strengthening separation from cars and begin new line marking works.[/font]

based on what the Min for Roads said which is (my ver.) "while I'm Minister for Roads we will not lose a lane of St Kilda Rd to bicycles"...there is much room to move...

from what appears in the Melb City info (and we will need to get the engineers to confirm) but the St Kilda Road left lanes width of the roadway and kerbside and nature strip (to design a Copenhagen lane , a door swinging strip, and two lane for traffic....) are wide enough to accommodate this.

There was comment on the 774 program this morning that such conditions exist and there will not be a loss of a lane ...so if that is the case, on what basis did this brainstorm for a Minister for Roads get his flat refusal statement hastily penned...noting that the statement issue later today by a spokesperson for the Minsiter is word for word what he tried to tell John Faine on 774 and got cut to bits on... Nothing stacked up....

Maybe this Minister just signed his own resignation draft is is looking for a nice seat in the back of Parliament to sleep on from here on in....

I for one would hope so!

rooman said:

Maybe this Minister just signed his own resignation draft is is looking for a nice seat in the back of Parliament to sleep on from here on in....

I for one would hope so!

Left this comment (below) on the HS article, dunno if it will get published tho. Also - scores so far: Are the proposed changes to St Kilda Rd a good idea?
Yes: 58% (1976 votes), No: 41% (1411 votes), Total of 3387 votes

****

"Tim Pallas needs a overdue lesson in PR, as all this could of been avoided if he'd only allowed the plan to go to consultation, allowed it to be quietly redeveloped to minimise the impact upon the existing lanes & everyone would of been happy.

As it stands, the new Roads Minister has stuck his foot firmly in mouth and created another opportunity for a outpouring of anti-cyclist rhetoric.

Remember this is the same state government that promised so much for sustainable transport in last years much heralded Transport and Liveability Statement.

Tim Pallas forgets a vital point - this isn't all about cars vs cyclists - it's about having the ability to create options to get Melbourne out of a traffic gridlocked mess. The thinking that got Melbourne into this increasingly traffic snarled nightmare won't get us out of it."

LotteBum said:

It's disappointing that people are (still) so stupid....

Not so much stupid, more un-informed. Most people don't give traffic
management, livable cities, sustainable transport etc a second thought.
If I didn't ride and didn't take public transport I might not either.

People are generally self interested. If your world revolves around the
car then there's little incentive to learn about something else unless
someone takes the time to inform you and, more importantly, you're
willing to listen.
--
Cheers
Euan

warrwych said:

PiledHigher said:

The online versiond doesn't do justice to the stupidity of the paper
version. Showed a mockup photo with parking lane replaced wioth bike
lane and said, how will the traffic flow. Quick tip the traffic isn't
flowing when the cars are parked!!!!

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21310065-2862,00.html

thank goodness for the concrete barriers, otherwise the traffic will
use it as an additional lane, as happens on Blackburn Rd leading up to
the Burwood Rd intersection.

Really? It's normally full of parked cars when I ride it, which is just
as bad.
--
Cheers
Euan

Full time Scores: Poll Results 11.55pm 2/3/07

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/poll/display/1,22024,5029015-5006029-1,00.html

Thanks for voting, here are the results so far: Are the proposed changes to St Kilda Rd a good idea?

Yes: 60% (2267 votes)
No: 39% (1451 votes)
Total votes

Total of 3718 votes

MIA - 1%

Gone for a tosca?

😉

Interim measure: ( until the MCC, PortPhil CC, VicRoads, RACV, BV, and Tiny Tim sort out their ego states)...

Green Wave sysnchonisation of the St Kilda Rd Traffic lights from Glenhuntley Rd to Princess Bridge ( Oh what the heck, go up Swanston St to at least Victoria and beyond into Carlton ,- no [censored], do it to all traffic lights every where!!!.)
Now that would be a treat ( or is that "threat" to small minded traffic engineers in the back room at Port Phillip and RACV?)...I digress sorry..

OK, lots of research and patents around about Green Wave traffic light management...we seem to have the opposite in Melbourne with a few minor exceptions ( possibly from the "fringe" out ie: Nepean from Glenhuntley Rd South to Southland in the peaks...the 80kph sections) maybe others, but scarce I submit...

The object of "Green Wave" is to maintain traffic flow momentum, not halt inertia of moving traffic, now naturally from a bicycle perspective if this was set to motorised traffic optimisation, (50-60kph) bicycles would ( as they now do) miss out at most intersections purely due to speed and acceleration differentials...( but I read somehwere that inner city average traffic speeds are way below the 50-60kph, in fact more near 20kph or less- (most likely CBD, but say between CBD and the inner fringe ( say from Glenhuntly Rd in to Princess Bridge ) the av. speed must be somewhere in between ( speculating but say 25-30kph)... with a prescribed max of 50kph speed limit in the fringe area and 30kph in the CBD....

But closer to the inner city, in the fringe, where traffic lights are more prevalent, speed is less and traffic slows to more bicycle levels, so the fringe and especially in the CBD (where IMO (CBD) it should ONLY be allowed to travel up to av. bicycle speeds), green wave synchronisation could optimise traffic progression and achieve other benefits such as less pollution from idling vehicles, faster commute times for bicycles ( the major outcome) and accordingly more bicycles on the roadway and less traffic...

consider if you rode to work at a speed that equated to the speed of all traffic, then naturally if you were in a cager vehicle that was going to sit in a parking space in the city all day, you may well consider the stronger benefits to you and your pocket and state of health by pulling out the treddly and riding more often.... the roads would be safer with fewer cars, the trip just as quick if not quicker and the benefit all round would be worth a huge smile in return from governments, and the environment... not to mention a partner who is much happier about having a healthy specimen of humanity to relate to than a blob of polluted flesh heading for an early grave from obesity or diabetes and heart failure...

drawing a long bow?...

maybe, but its worth a shot...

I also draw on my traffic light poll at Bike Café where it was evident a prime reason for running read lights was bicycle riders did not like slowing for lights at every intersection, stopping then having to get up momentum again, ( I gather then that this shows for some the tedious aspect of commuting (eg: waste of energy, time, and inspiration to ride to work), when it could be overcome by simple traffic light synchronisation.

fix the lights, try Green Wave synchronisation , slow the cars and get more people on bikes...