Racing power levels

ecandl said:

I have decided to drop triathlons for a year to focus on cycling/racing. I was wondering if anyone had any idea of power generated by the CAT 4/5 cyclists I will be racing against. I recently purchased a Kurt Kinetic trainer so I can gauge my power better. I know, tough question to answer but what should my goals be for avg power/speed for a 2x20 workout to not get dropped regularly. I'm considering 45 minute crits and road races of 150 minutes or less. I'm 6'1" and around 155lbs. if that helps. Thanks for your input.

at 155lbs, Cat 4/5, I'd say for you probably anywhere from 275-325W would be good to start with a 2x20. In season, you should be able to do 3x20s at 275-325W. If you can make over 300W you're probably going to have no trouble finishing in the top 5-10. All depends on what it's like where you are.

ecandl said:

I was wondering if anyone had any idea of power generated by the CAT 4/5 cyclists I will be racing against.

This will give you a ballpark. Good luck!

cyclingpeakssoftware.comprofile.aspOpen ↗

K50 said:

All depends on what it's like where you are.

Must be hard where you are. 3.8-4.6 W/kg would be pretty good going for a Cat4/5 rider.

Alex Simmons said:

Must be hard where you are. 3.8-4.6 W/kg would be pretty good going for a Cat4/5 rider.

Yeah, by that I would have a power output around 5 W/kg at least. I don't train enough to have that much power. I race Cat 2/3. But I guess it is different all over the place.

Thanks for the input, at least I have something to shoot for. If I get dropped in the first lap I will blame it on all of you though:-)

ecandl said:

I have decided to drop triathlons for a year to focus on cycling/racing. I was wondering if anyone had any idea of power generated by the CAT 4/5 cyclists I will be racing against. I recently purchased a Kurt Kinetic trainer so I can gauge my power better. I know, tough question to answer but what should my goals be for avg power/speed for a 2x20 workout to not get dropped regularly. I'm considering 45 minute crits and road races of 150 minutes or less. I'm 6'1" and around 155lbs. if that helps. Thanks for your input.

Bike road racing power requirements are way different from what works for a triathlon. Pay less attention to what you can do for 20 minutes and way more attention to what you can do for short term efforts.

Most road racing consists of brief periods of extreme effort followed by longer periods of little to no effort. Given a decent base, your power output in all out efforts of 15 seconds to a few minutes will be the biggest determinant of your sucess in road racing.

The best introduction and preparation for serious racing is racing. Find a group that holds low pressure club races and get a few of these under your belt before you try an open race. Working on spint intervals will also be good preparation.

Ergoman said:

Most road racing consists of brief periods of extreme effort followed by longer periods of little to no effort. Given a decent base, your power output in all out efforts of 15 seconds to a few minutes will be the biggest determinant of your sucess in road racing.

I think that rules out a whole bunch of roadies in the Pro Tour who'd manage the power of an average male over such durations (or at least up to ~ 60-secs).

wouldn't that mean the best people for road racing would be people who ride the 200-metre sprint up to keirin type efforts...

ric

Ergoman said:

Given a decent base, your power output in all out efforts of 15 seconds to a few minutes will be the biggest determinant of your sucess in road racing.

Funny, I made it up to cat. 1 in the crit-happy midwest despite not being able to generate all that much power over such durations.

Find your FTP and do 3x20s at 91% to raise it when you can't raise it any more you may be close to your genetic limit 2x20s at 100% FTP would probably maintain it and 2x20s between 100% to 105% would peak your FTP.

ecandl said:

I have decided to drop triathlons for a year to focus on cycling/racing. I was wondering if anyone had any idea of power generated by the CAT 4/5 cyclists I will be racing against. I recently purchased a Kurt Kinetic trainer so I can gauge my power better. I know, tough question to answer but what should my goals be for avg power/speed for a 2x20 workout to not get dropped regularly. I'm considering 45 minute crits and road races of 150 minutes or less. I'm 6'1" and around 155lbs. if that helps. Thanks for your input.

wiredued said:

Find your FTP and do 3x20s at 91% to raise it when you can't raise it any more you may be close to your genetic limit 2x20s at 100% FTP would probably maintain it and 2x20s between 100% to 105% would peak your FTP.

What is the definition of FTP and what is the best way to determine FTP? Lately I have been having trouble motivating myself while staring at the garage floor - and it is snowing again.

Also, people talk about watts/kg. Is that watts at FTP?

ecandl said:

What is the definition of FTP and what is the best way to determine FTP? Lately I have been having trouble motivating myself while staring at the garage floor - and it is snowing again.

Also, people talk about watts/kg. Is that watts at FTP?

This will teach you:

cyclingpeakssoftware.compower411Open ↗

Read it, learn it, live it! Then buy this:

peakscoachinggroup.comTrain with power book.htmlOpen ↗

FTP=Functional Threshold power (hour power) the power you can maintain for a 1 hour TT. It's easier to do a less than fresh twenty minute time trial multiply by .95 to get FTP like the test in Andy's book on page 50 (Hunter's method). amazon.com103 9756195 1751026Open ↗

This chart helps calculate watts kurtkinetic.comcalibration chart.phpOpen ↗
18mph=209.18w
18.1mph=211.62w
18.2mph=214.09w
18.3mph=216.58w
18.4mph=219.10w
18.5mph=221.63w
18.6mph=224.19w
18.7mph=226.76w
18.8mph=229.36w
18.9mph=231.99w
19mph=234.63w
19.1mph=237.30w
19.2mph=239.99w
19.3mph=242.70w
19.4mph=245.44w
19.5mph=248.19w
19.6mph=250.97w
19.7mph=253.78w
19.8mph=256.61w
19.9mph=259.46w
20mph=262.33w
20.1mph=265.23w
20.2mph=268.15w
20.3mph=271.10w
20.4mph=274.07w
20.5mph=277.06w
20.6mph=280.08w
20.7mph=283.12w
20.8mph=286.19w
20.9mph=289.28w
21mph=292.39w
21.1mph=295.53w
21.2mph=298.70w
21.3mph=301.89w
21.4mph=305.10w
21.5mph=308.35w
21.6mph=311.61w
21.7mph=314.90w
21.8mph=318.22w
21.9mph=321.56w
22mph=324.93w
22.1mph=328.33w
22.2mph=331.75w
22.3mph=335.20w
22.4mph=338.67w
22.5mph=342.17w
22.6mph=345.70w
22.7mph=349.25w
22.8mph=352.83w
22.9mph=356.44w
23mph=360.07w
23.1mph=363.73w
23.2mph=367.42w
23.3mph=371.14w
23.4mph=374.88w
23.5mph=378.65w
23.6mph=382.45w
23.7mph=386.28w
23.8mph=390.13w
23.9mph=394.02w
24mph=397.93w
24.1mph=401.87w
24.2mph=405.83w
24.3mph=409.83w
24.4mph=413.86w
24.5mph=417.91w
24.6mph=421.99w
24.7mph=426.10w
24.8mph=430.25w
24.9mph=434.42w
25mph=438.62w

ecandl said:

What is the definition of FTP and what is the best way to determine FTP? Lately I have been having trouble motivating myself while staring at the garage floor - and it is snowing again.

Also, people talk about watts/kg. Is that watts at FTP?

wiredued said:

FTP=Functional Threshold power (hour power) the power you can maintain for a 1 hour TT. It's easier to do a less than fresh twenty minute time trial multiply by .95 to get FTP like the test in Andy's book on page 50 (Hunter's method). amazon.com103 9756195 1751026Open ↗

This chart helps calculate watts kurtkinetic.comcalibration chart.phpOpen ↗
18mph=209.18w
18.1mph=211.62w
18.2mph=214.09w
18.3mph=216.58w
18.4mph=219.10w
18.5mph=221.63w
18.6mph=224.19w
18.7mph=226.76w
18.8mph=229.36w
18.9mph=231.99w
19mph=234.63w
19.1mph=237.30w
19.2mph=239.99w
19.3mph=242.70w
19.4mph=245.44w
19.5mph=248.19w
19.6mph=250.97w
19.7mph=253.78w
19.8mph=256.61w
19.9mph=259.46w
20mph=262.33w
20.1mph=265.23w
20.2mph=268.15w
20.3mph=271.10w
20.4mph=274.07w
20.5mph=277.06w
20.6mph=280.08w
20.7mph=283.12w
20.8mph=286.19w
20.9mph=289.28w
21mph=292.39w
21.1mph=295.53w
21.2mph=298.70w
21.3mph=301.89w
21.4mph=305.10w
21.5mph=308.35w
21.6mph=311.61w
21.7mph=314.90w
21.8mph=318.22w
21.9mph=321.56w
22mph=324.93w
22.1mph=328.33w
22.2mph=331.75w
22.3mph=335.20w
22.4mph=338.67w
22.5mph=342.17w
22.6mph=345.70w
22.7mph=349.25w
22.8mph=352.83w
22.9mph=356.44w
23mph=360.07w
23.1mph=363.73w
23.2mph=367.42w
23.3mph=371.14w
23.4mph=374.88w
23.5mph=378.65w
23.6mph=382.45w
23.7mph=386.28w
23.8mph=390.13w
23.9mph=394.02w
24mph=397.93w
24.1mph=401.87w
24.2mph=405.83w
24.3mph=409.83w
24.4mph=413.86w
24.5mph=417.91w
24.6mph=421.99w
24.7mph=426.10w
24.8mph=430.25w
24.9mph=434.42w
25mph=438.62w

Your values are slightly off. I believe you're using .01968 for B value instead the correct .01917 (it was probably a rounded up .019168). I believe they they made a typo.

Correct watts at 20 MPH should be 258.2. Just FYI, this table (bottom of page) shows correct values:

kurtkinetic.comPower Curves419.pdfOpen ↗

I stand corrected thanks....now I have to fix my chart and deal with the fact I'm 4 watts weaker.🙂

Piotr said:

Your values are slightly off. I believe you're using .01968 for B value instead the correct .01917 (it was probably a rounded up .019168). I believe they they made a typo.

Correct watts at 20 MPH should be 258.2. Just FYI, this table (bottom of page) shows correct values:

kurtkinetic.comPower Curves419.pdfOpen ↗

acoggan said:

Funny, I made it up to cat. 1 in the crit-happy midwest despite not being able to generate all that much power over such durations.

Yeah, that is funny, but I think you know exactly what I mean.

My point is that although having a good base and being able to sustain a lot of power over a long time is good for tri, that ability PLUS an ability to put out higher short term effort is best for road racing.

Don't tell me you time-trialed through all your crits, and don't tell me that jumping out of 200 corners while averaging 28mph takes the same kind of effort as averaging 28mph on the straight and level.

wiredued said:

I stand corrected thanks....now I have to fix my chart and deal with the fact I'm 4 watts weaker.🙂

Yeah, I know and I hate to do that to you 🙁. If it's any consolation I'm including an Excel spreadsheet I used. It has some other goodies also. Of course you need to change the extention from .doc to .xls

I got my PT SL and WKO+ this week, so I may not need it much anymore 😄.

I think Andy mentioned before that he would attack the field so many times that he would eventually break the pack elastic and took off.

Anyway, I never quite understand why people believe that fitness does not matter when comes to racing. How is it a cat1 different than a cat4???? For one thing, the cat1 has a higher FTP than the cat4. I just can't believe anyone can make it to cat1 with a cat4 FTP. 😄 Oh yes, race smarts and experiences can do that????? 😄 Just think about this situation. In a 60 miles road race with 5000ft of climbing, the top 10 riders finish the race with an average power of [censored] for 2 hours and 30 minutes. Now, you got drop at mile 40 because the main field was going up on a 6 minutes climb at 5.5w/kg.. Your average power for the first 1 hour and 30 minutes of the race was already at your FT which is very close to the average power (2 hours and 30 minutes) of the top 10 riders. Now, do you think your success in this race would change if you have better short burst powers???? Maybe you draft more??? Better racing tactics??? Hope is not a luxaury or an option when the top 10 riders have a higher power to weight ratio or power to drag ratio in 2 hours + than you could do in 1 hour.

Ergoman said:

Yeah, that is funny, but I think you know exactly what I mean.

My point is that although having a good base and being able to sustain a lot of power over a long time is good for tri, that ability PLUS an ability to put out higher short term effort is best for road racing.

Don't tell me you time-trialed through all your crits, and don't tell me that jumping out of 200 corners while averaging 28mph takes the same kind of effort as averaging 28mph on the straight and level.

Is this better?🙂

17mph=183.33w
17.1mph=185.53w
17.2mph=187.74w
17.3mph=189.98w
17.4mph=192.23w
17.5mph=194.51w
17.6mph=196.80w
17.7mph=199.12w
17.8mph=201.46w
17.9mph=203.81w
18mph=206.19w
18.1mph=208.59w
18.2mph=211.01w
18.3mph=213.45w
18.4mph=215.91w
18.5mph=218.39w
18.6mph=220.89w
18.7mph=223.42w
18.8mph=225.96w
18.9mph=228.53w
19mph=231.12w
19.1mph=233.73w
19.2mph=236.36w
19.3mph=239.02w
19.4mph=241.70w
19.5mph=244.40w
19.6mph=247.12w
19.7mph=249.86w
19.8mph=252.63w
19.9mph=255.42w
20mph=258.24w
20.1mph=261.07w
20.2mph=263.93w
20.3mph=266.81w
20.4mph=269.72w
20.5mph=272.65w
20.6mph=275.60w
20.7mph=278.58w
20.8mph=281.58w
20.9mph=284.60w
21mph=287.65w
21.1mph=290.72w
21.2mph=293.82w
21.3mph=296.94w
21.4mph=300.09w
21.5mph=303.26w
21.6mph=306.45w
21.7mph=309.67w
21.8mph=312.92w
21.9mph=316.19w
22mph=319.48w
22.1mph=322.80w
22.2mph=326.15w
22.3mph=329.52w
22.4mph=332.92w
22.5mph=336.34w
22.6mph=339.79w
22.7mph=343.26w
22.8mph=346.76w
22.9mph=350.29w
23mph=353.84w
23.1mph=357.42w
23.2mph=361.03w
23.3mph=364.66w
23.4mph=368.32w
23.5mph=372.01w
23.6mph=375.72w
23.7mph=379.46w
23.8mph=383.23w
23.9mph=387.03w
24mph=390.85w
24.1mph=394.70w
24.2mph=398.58w
24.3mph=402.48w
24.4mph=406.42w
24.5mph=410.38w
24.6mph=414.37w
24.7mph=418.39w
24.8mph=422.44w
24.9mph=426.51w
25mph=430.62w
25.1mph=434.75w......Lance Armstrong FTP maybe
25.2mph=438.91w
25.3mph=443.10w
25.4mph=447.32w
25.5mph=451.57w
25.6mph=455.85w
25.7mph=460.16w
25.8mph=464.49w
25.9mph=468.86w
26mph=473.26w

If it's a 2.4 wireless you might need it again🙂 Thanks for the help.

Piotr said:

I got my PT SL and WKO+ this week, so I may not need it much anymore 😄.