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Triple chainsets, 10sp, BBs - advice needed.

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UK and Europe
Published
27 February 2007
Last activity
1 March 2007
Original author
bookieb
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15
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  1. Hi All,

    On my commuting/club run/Audax bike, I'm currently running:
    - Ultegra 10sp hubs and casette
    - Ultegra long cage rear mech
    - DA 10sp downtube shifters
    - Ultegra 10sp chain

    ....so far, so conventional, but then it gets a bit weird...

    Sachs front der.
    Suntour X1 triple chainset (old MTB stuff, 24-34-44).

    I'm getting problems with the chain getting sucked between the rings
    of the chainset, when particularly when using the middle ring at the
    front and smallest cog at the rear. Given the mix of stuff I threw on
    when I was building this bike, it's hardly surprising it doesn't work
    perfectly.

    The crank arms are fairly battered, and the rings are on their way
    out. Likewise the BB axle (conventional cup/bearings/axle BB) is
    showing a good bit of wear.

    I'd like to get a new triple chainset and rings, new BB (cartridge is
    fine, but I'd prefer to retain square taper and avoid Octalink/splined
    etc.) a new front der. Should be 10sp compatible in case I decide to
    change to STI at a later stage.

    I see that Wiggle (among others) have road triple "10sp" Campag
    chainsets that use a conventional square taper BB, and the price is
    reasonable.

    Is there a similar Shimano item available?

    If not, and I buy a Campag one, is the ring spacing (i.e the gap
    bertween the rings along the axis of the BB) different so that STI is
    no longer an option?

    Any other suggestions?

    TIA,

    bookieb.

  2. bookieb said:

    Hi All,

    On my commuting/club run/Audax bike, I'm currently running:
    - Ultegra 10sp hubs and casette
    - Ultegra long cage rear mech
    - DA 10sp downtube shifters
    - Ultegra 10sp chain

    ...so far, so conventional, but then it gets a bit weird...

    Sachs front der.
    Suntour X1 triple chainset (old MTB stuff, 24-34-44).

    I'm getting problems with the chain getting sucked between the rings
    of the chainset, when particularly when using the middle ring at the
    front and smallest cog at the rear. Given the mix of stuff I threw on
    when I was building this bike, it's hardly surprising it doesn't work
    perfectly.

    The crank arms are fairly battered, and the rings are on their way
    out. Likewise the BB axle (conventional cup/bearings/axle BB) is
    showing a good bit of wear.

    I'd like to get a new triple chainset and rings, new BB (cartridge is
    fine, but I'd prefer to retain square taper and avoid Octalink/splined
    etc.) a new front der. Should be 10sp compatible in case I decide to
    change to STI at a later stage.

    I see that Wiggle (among others) have road triple "10sp" Campag
    chainsets that use a conventional square taper BB, and the price is
    reasonable.

    Is there a similar Shimano item available?

    If not, and I buy a Campag one, is the ring spacing (i.e the gap
    bertween the rings along the axis of the BB) different so that STI is
    no longer an option?

    Any other suggestions?

    TIA,

    bookieb.

    You should consider the new Ultegra Hollowtech II, the bb is integrated
    with external bearing
    cups, it will match the rest of the system and sort your current
    problems, the spacing on the Campag
    is slightly different and the Campag does not act that well with
    Shimano chain, if you do mix Campag
    and Shimano 10sp then it is best to switch to KMC 10sp chain as it
    works well with either.
    --
    Three wheels good, two wheels ok

    www.catrike.co.uk

  3. bookieb said:

    Hi All,

    On my commuting/club run/Audax bike, I'm currently running:


    [snip mixed drivetrain]

    Quoted message said:

    I'd like to get a new triple chainset and rings, new BB (cartridge is
    fine, but I'd prefer to retain square taper and avoid Octalink/splined
    etc.) a new front der. Should be 10sp compatible in case I decide to
    change to STI at a later stage.

    ...Wiggle (among others) have road triple "10sp" Campag
    chainsets that use a conventional square taper BB, and the price is
    reasonable.

    Campag square taper (JIS?) is different from ISO square taper. Google
    should be able to tell you which is bigger

    best wishes
    james

  4. in message <[email hidden]>, bookieb

    (') said:

    Hi All,

    On my commuting/club run/Audax bike, I'm currently running:
    - Ultegra 10sp hubs and casette
    - Ultegra long cage rear mech
    - DA 10sp downtube shifters
    - Ultegra 10sp chain

    ...so far, so conventional, but then it gets a bit weird...

    Sachs front der.
    Suntour X1 triple chainset (old MTB stuff, 24-34-44).

    Quoted message said:

    I'd like to get a new triple chainset and rings, new BB (cartridge is
    fine, but I'd prefer to retain square taper and avoid Octalink/splined
    etc.) a new front der. Should be 10sp compatible in case I decide to
    change to STI at a later stage.

    Why do you need a triple, if you've got ten speed?

    However...

    My guess is that a Campag chainset will work, but I'd wait for Pete Biggs
    who will give you a canonical answer. Do it soon, though, as Campag are
    abandoning square taper this year.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ...but have you *seen* the size of the world wide spider?

  5. Quoted post said:

    On Feb 27, 4:38 pm, "bookieb" <[email hidden]> wrote:> Hi All,

    Quoted message said:

    On my commuting/club run/Audax bike, I'm currently running:

    [snip mixed drivetrain]

    Quoted message said:

    I'd like to get a new triple chainset and rings, new BB (cartridge is
    fine, but I'd prefer to retain square taper and avoid Octalink/splined
    etc.) a new front der. Should be 10sp compatible in case I decide to
    change to STI at a later stage.

    Quoted message said:

    ...Wiggle (among others) have road triple "10sp" Campag
    chainsets that use a conventional square taper BB, and the price is
    reasonable.

    Campag square taper (JIS?) is different from ISO square taper. Google
    should be able to tell you which is bigger

    best wishes
    james

    Thanks James, I'll make sure to get ISO or JIS as appropriate.

    Regards,

    bookieb.

  6. Simon Brooke said:

    in message <[email hidden]>, bookieb

    (') said:

    Hi All,



    <snip>

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Sachs front der.
    Suntour X1 triple chainset (old MTB stuff, 24-34-44).
    I'd like to get a new triple chainset and rings, new BB (cartridge is
    fine, but I'd prefer to retain square taper and avoid Octalink/splined
    etc.) a new front der. Should be 10sp compatible in case I decide to
    change to STI at a later stage.

    Why do you need a triple, if you've got ten speed?

    Hi Simon,

    Whether it's 10/9/8 or 7speed is pretty irrelevant to me - I was
    buying new kit, and it seemed to make sense to buy the "current
    standard" (although 9/8sp was/is still readily available.) Having 10
    is nice, it gives me lots of intermediate gears, but I'm more
    concerned about overall range.

    I don't need a triple per se, but I do want to retain the bottom end
    gearing.

    Current set up gives me 24/24/44 on a 12/27 cassette - low 23.8in.
    high 98.1in.

    If I change to a double, it'll either be:
    a conventional double, say 53/39 on the same casette, giving low
    38.7in, high 118.2in.
    or
    a compact double, say 50/34 on the same casette, giving low 33.7in,
    high 111.5in.

    Either of the double options gives me a far bit extra high end (13%
    higher for the compact), but a big loss in bottom end stump pulling
    gears (lowest gear is 40% higher for the compact, even more with the
    conventional). I started off on MTBs, and still tend to gear down and
    spin my way up hills, rather than grind them out in a higher gear.

    Quoted message said:

    However...

    My guess is that a Campag chainset will work, but I'd wait for Pete Biggs
    who will give you a canonical answer. Do it soon, though, as Campag are
    abandoning square taper this year.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ...but have you *seen* the size of the world wide spider?

    I know it'll work now with the non-indexed left lever of the down-tube
    shifters. I just don't know if it'll be close enough to get by if I
    do change to STI. Any ideas Pete (or anyone else)?

    The only reason I'd change from the down tube levers is that I'm
    looking at getting a new frame as well. Most off-the-shelf ones don't
    have shift lever bosses on the down tube any more, just cable stops
    for use with STI/ErgoPower. I could get bar end levers (never liked
    'em personally - they don't feel as direct as down tube levers, don't
    fall to hand as directly as STI/ErgoPower), or look at a set of "clamp
    on" bosses (yuck).

    I don't really want to change to the newer BB designs either.
    Probably just my internal grouch speaking, but I never found any
    problem with the old design, either in terms of flex (which I could
    never detect, despite weighing >100kg for a period of time when I
    started out) or reliability. I have the tools for the old type, it's
    simple, it works.

    Perhaps you're right Simon. Maybe I should just suppress my internal
    Luddite for a while and lash out on one of the Shimano triples, BB cup
    set, and tools. It doesn't feel like progress though, just change.

    Thanks for the suggestions though,

    regards,

    bookieb

  7. Simon Brooke said:

    in message <[email hidden]>, bookieb

    (') said:

    Hi All,

    Quoted message said:

    On my commuting/club run/Audax bike, I'm currently running:
    - Ultegra 10sp hubs and casette
    - Ultegra long cage rear mech
    - DA 10sp downtube shifters
    - Ultegra 10sp chain

    Quoted message said:

    ...so far, so conventional, but then it gets a bit weird...

    Quoted message said:

    Sachs front der.
    Suntour X1 triple chainset (old MTB stuff, 24-34-44).
    I'd like to get a new triple chainset and rings, new BB (cartridge is
    fine, but I'd prefer to retain square taper and avoid Octalink/splined
    etc.) a new front der. Should be 10sp compatible in case I decide to
    change to STI at a later stage.

    Why do you need a triple, if you've got ten speed?

    However...

    My guess is that a Campag chainset will work, but I'd wait for Pete Biggs
    who will give you a canonical answer. Do it soon, though, as Campag are
    abandoning square taper this year.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ...but have you *seen* the size of the world wide spider?

    Sorry, and just to be clear, am I correct in thinking that Octalink is
    passe, Hollowtech II is the current "standard"?

    bookieb.

  8. bookieb said:
    Simon Brooke said:

    in message <[email hidden]>,
    bookieb

    (') said:

    Hi All,

    Quoted message said:

    On my commuting/club run/Audax bike, I'm currently running:
    - Ultegra 10sp hubs and casette
    - Ultegra long cage rear mech
    - DA 10sp downtube shifters
    - Ultegra 10sp chain

    Quoted message said:

    ...so far, so conventional, but then it gets a bit weird...

    Quoted message said:

    Sachs front der.
    Suntour X1 triple chainset (old MTB stuff, 24-34-44).
    I'd like to get a new triple chainset and rings, new BB (cartridge
    is fine, but I'd prefer to retain square taper and avoid
    Octalink/splined etc.) a new front der. Should be 10sp compatible
    in case I decide to change to STI at a later stage.

    Note that a Campag road triple chainset can't take a middle ring smaller
    than 39t; 38t for Shimano road triple.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Why do you need a triple, if you've got ten speed?

    No comment ;-)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    However...

    My guess is that a Campag chainset will work, but I'd wait for Pete
    Biggs who will give you a canonical answer. Do it soon, though, as
    Campag are abandoning square taper this year.

    Not done it myself but plenty of people have and they say Campag chainsets
    "work fine" with Shimano shifters & mechs. But if the rings were too close
    together, chainring spacers would solve that.

    Bookieb, they are great-value chainsets. You'll be able to find one for
    less than Wiggle's price. Look around on the net and eBay. Get a Campag BB
    to go with it. I could post more detail on what BB if you mention the model
    of chainset you want and the diameter of your bike frame's seat tube.

    ~PB

  9. bookieb said:
    Quoted post said:

    Campag square taper (JIS?) is different from ISO square taper. Google
    should be able to tell you which is bigger

    best wishes
    james

    Thanks James, I'll make sure to get ISO or JIS as appropriate.

    Ezcept James has it the wrong way around. Shimano use JIS (Japanese
    Industry Standard), Campag use ISO (International Standards Organisation).

    Though both use the same taper (2 degrees IIRC), Campag BB's have an end
    cross section of 12.7 mm, Shimano BB's have a larger starting cross section
    of 12.9 mm. So Campag cranks on a JIS BB would sit too far out and Shimano
    cranks on a ISO BB would sit too far in (so far in fact that you might not
    be able to tighten them up)

    Hope this helps

    Tom
    --
    Return address is dead. Real address is at
    http://www.happy-penguin.info/address.jpg

  10. Pete Biggs said:
    bookieb said:
    Simon Brooke said:

    in message <[email hidden]>,
    bookieb



    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Note that a Campag road triple chainset can't take a middle ring smaller
    than 39t; 38t for Shimano road triple.

    Presumably the small ring on the road triple is a 30 or so.
    Is that the minimum it can take?

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Not done it myself but plenty of people have and they say Campag chainsets
    "work fine" with Shimano shifters & mechs. But if the rings were too close
    together, chainring spacers would solve that.

    OK, I'll give it a go.

    Quoted message said:


    Bookieb, they are great-value chainsets. You'll be able to find one for
    less than Wiggle's price. Look around on the net and eBay. Get a Campag BB
    to go with it. I could post more detail on what BB if you mention the model
    of chainset you want and the diameter of your bike frame's seat tube.

    ~PB

    I don't have a calliper, but best guess with a ruler, 28-30mm (older
    steel frame, uses 24mm (sic) seatpost.

    Thanks Pete.

  11. bookieb said:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Note that a Campag road triple chainset can't take a middle ring
    smaller than 39t; 38t for Shimano road triple.

    Presumably the small ring on the road triple is a 30 or so.
    Is that the minimum it can take?

    No, it comes with a 30 but can take anything down to 24. 26 is more
    practical with a 39+ middle, though. This applies to both Campag and
    Shimano road triples as both use 74mm BCD. Settle Cycles is the place to
    buy TA and Stronglight rings.

    /snip
    [seat tube re Campag BBs]

    Quoted message said:

    I don't have a calliper, but best guess with a ruler, 28-30mm (older
    steel frame, uses 24mm (sic) seatpost.

    It'll probably be 28.6mm. For a any Campag road* triple chainset other than
    Chorus or Record, you'll need a Mirage/Veloce/Centaur 111mm BB. The
    new-style Centaur ones are lighter and use a different tool. Wiggle sells
    tools for both types.

    115.5mm BB is only intended for 32mm+ seat tube. Even then it's not
    actually necessary if you can get the front mech to shift inwards enough. I
    file my mechs!

    Chorus/Record triple chainset require Chorus or Record asymmetrical 111mm,
    regardless of seat tube size.

    * I stick the "road" in there because Campag made mountain bike chainsets at
    one time.

    ~PB

  12. Pete Biggs said:
    bookieb said:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Note that a Campag road triple chainset can't take a middle ring
    smaller than 39t; 38t for Shimano road triple.

    Quoted message said:

    Presumably the small ring on the road triple is a 30 or so.
    Is that the minimum it can take?

    No, it comes with a 30 but can take anything down to 24. 26 is more
    practical with a 39+ middle, though. This applies to both Campag and
    Shimano road triples as both use 74mm BCD. Settle Cycles is the place to
    buy TA and Stronglight rings.

    /snip
    [seat tube re Campag BBs]

    Quoted message said:

    I don't have a calliper, but best guess with a ruler, 28-30mm (older
    steel frame, uses 24mm (sic) seatpost.

    It'll probably be 28.6mm. For a any Campag road* triple chainset other than
    Chorus or Record, you'll need a Mirage/Veloce/Centaur 111mm BB. The
    new-style Centaur ones are lighter and use a different tool. Wiggle sells
    tools for both types.

    115.5mm BB is only intended for 32mm+ seat tube. Even then it's not
    actually necessary if you can get the front mech to shift inwards enough. I
    file my mechs!

    Chorus/Record triple chainset require Chorus or Record asymmetrical 111mm,
    regardless of seat tube size.

    * I stick the "road" in there because Campag made mountain bike chainsets at
    one time.

    ~PB

    Thanks Pete - time to go shopping methinks!

    Regards,

    bookieb

  13. Pete Biggs said:
    bookieb said:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Note that a Campag road triple chainset can't take a middle ring
    smaller than 39t; 38t for Shimano road triple.

    Presumably the small ring on the road triple is a 30 or so.
    Is that the minimum it can take?

    No, it comes with a 30 but can take anything down to 24. 26 is more
    practical with a 39+ middle, though. This applies to both Campag and
    Shimano road triples as both use 74mm BCD. Settle Cycles is the place to
    buy TA and Stronglight rings.

    IME, the smallest you can get for the granny with a campag triple and FD is
    28, with a 26 the chain rubs on the bottom of the FD cage.

    Of course, if you changed the big ring down from the 52 as well, you could
    put the FD lower and a 26 could well fit.

  14. Jim Higson said:

    IME, the smallest you can get for the granny with a campag triple and
    FD is 28, with a 26 the chain rubs on the bottom of the FD cage.

    Maybe you had your mech to high or something.

    26/39/52 and 24/39/50 works with Campag chainsets & mechs, IME. Getting the
    mech positioned & adjusted OK was a bugger of a job, but once it's done,
    it's done.

    ~PB

  15. In news:[email hidden],
    Jim Higson <[email hidden]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

    Quoted message said:

    IME, the smallest you can get for the granny with a campag triple and
    FD is 28, with a 26 the chain rubs on the bottom of the FD cage.

    Of course, if you changed the big ring down from the 52 as well, you
    could put the FD lower and a 26 could well fit.

    I'm running a 24-42-52 Campag triple on the Trice, but that's with an
    Ultegra triple FD. No rubbing problems here, and the added bonus that,
    without Mr. Shimano's humungous ramps'n'pins sticking out of the side of the
    middle ring, it's a hell of a lot quiter when on the little ring.

    --
    Dave Larrington
    <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
    If you want a bicycle, buy a bicycle. If you want something
    that folds, buy a deckchair.

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