BB Size for Campy Mirage Cranks

* * Chas said:

What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require. This will be
used with a 68mm BSC BB.

I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.

I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in 110mm and
113mm widths.

use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

It used to be possible to answer such questions online, here :

http://www.campagnolo.com/spares/spares07_B.pdf

But i see that although the catalogues specify the BB widths (111 mm
double, 115.5 mm triple), they no longer say if there is a drive-side
offset to the bottom brackets. Does anyone here have a list of the
offsets on the modern square-taper campy BB's (double and triple,
record/chorus and centaur/ACH/ACS) ?? Thanx,

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA

Donald Gillies said:

It used to be possible to answer such questions online, here :
http://www.campagnolo.com/spares/spares07_B.pdf
But i see that although the catalogues specify the BB widths (111 mm
double, 115.5 mm triple), they no longer say if there is a drive-side
offset to the bottom brackets. Does anyone here have a list of the
offsets on the modern square-taper campy BB's (double and triple,
record/chorus and centaur/ACH/ACS) ?? Thanx,

Modern BB sets are symmetric with few rare exceptions. When you see only
one dimension, overall length, assume symmetry.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require. This

will be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

used with a 68mm BSC BB.

I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.

I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in 110mm

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

113mm widths.

use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

This is an older square taper Mirage.

I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.

Chas.

* * Chas said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require. This

will be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

used with a 68mm BSC BB.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in 110mm

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

113mm widths.

Quoted message said:

use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.

Quoted message said:

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

This is an older square taper Mirage.

I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.

Chas.

Inexpensive and long lasting..and the new for 2006, with 3 bearings,
Centaur is even better...111mm, ISO taper.

A Muzi said:

Donald Gillies said:

It used to be possible to answer such questions online, here :
http://www.campagnolo.com/spares/spares07_B.pdf
But i see that although the catalogues specify the BB widths (111 mm
double, 115.5 mm triple), they no longer say if there is a drive-side
offset to the bottom brackets. Does anyone here have a list of the
offsets on the modern square-taper campy BB's (double and triple,
record/chorus and centaur/ACH/ACS) ?? Thanx,

Modern BB sets are symmetric with few rare exceptions. When you see only
one dimension, overall length, assume symmetry.
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Rare exceptions? 111mm is the length of the Campagnolo triple bottom
brackets. But the Record and Chorus 111mm is symmetric or asymmetric
while the 111mm Mirage/Veloce/Centaur/AC-H/AC-S bottom bracket is the
opposite. They are both 111mm but they are not interchangeable. You
match the bottom bracket and crankset. Maybe its rare for Shimano but
its been this wasy for the past 10-15 years with Campagnolo.

* * Chas said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require. This

will be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

used with a 68mm BSC BB.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in 110mm

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

113mm widths.

Quoted message said:

use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.

Quoted message said:

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

This is an older square taper Mirage.

I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.

Chas.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=1112&sku=4728&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Brand%3A%20Campagnolo

$14.95 before 10% coupon at Nashbar. 68x111mm English. ISO/
Campagnolo taper designed to fit Campagnolo/ISO taper cranks. Not JIS
taper like your Tange bottom bracket.

Quoted message said:

Inexpensive and long lasting..and the new for 2006, with 3 bearings,
Centaur is even better...111mm, ISO taper.

You mean 2007, right?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Inexpensive and long lasting..and the new for 2006, with 3 bearings,
Centaur is even better...111mm, ISO taper.

You mean 2007, right?

The 2007 BB is Ultra-torque, not square taper. I think 2006 is right - IIRC,
that's the one that uses the cassette lockring tool instead of the six
notch tool.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require. This

will be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

used with a 68mm BSC BB.

I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.

Quoted message said:

I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in 110mm

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

113mm widths.

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.

* * Chas said:

This is an older square taper Mirage.
I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.

Really? What exactly? We haven't.
Nice product overall. Sure, the solid spindle version is a bit heavier.
These are also sold under other names such as "Real" with a good history.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* * Chas wrote:
> What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require. This

will be

Quoted message said:

> used with a 68mm BSC BB.
I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.
> I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in

110mm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and

Quoted message said:

> 113mm widths.

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.

* * Chas said:

This is an older square taper Mirage.
I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.

Really? What exactly? We haven't.
Nice product overall. Sure, the solid spindle version is a bit heavier.
These are also sold under other names such as "Real" with a good

history.

Quoted message said:

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I remember reading negative comments about problems with the early Campy
sealed bearing BB cartridges in this NG and other places. I don't recall
the details because they didn't apply to anything that I was using at the
time.

Glad to hear that this is a good product. I'm putting together an old
beater bike for riding in inclement weather, i.e. it might rain or it just
rained. ;-)

I'd go with a Phil BB but this is a very low budget project. I forgot that
Campy changed from ISO to their own taper ~1994.

The Campy BB means just another one use tool. I have a drawer full of
these kinds of tools.

Chas.

* * Chas said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> * * Chas wrote:
>> What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require. This
will be
>> used with a 68mm BSC BB.
> I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.
>> I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in

110mm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and
>> 113mm widths.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

This is an older square taper Mirage.
I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.

Quoted message said:

Really? What exactly? We haven't.
Nice product overall. Sure, the solid spindle version is a bit heavier.
These are also sold under other names such as "Real" with a good

history.

Quoted message said:

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I remember reading negative comments about problems with the early Campy
sealed bearing BB cartridges in this NG and other places. I don't recall
the details because they didn't apply to anything that I was using at the
time.

Glad to hear that this is a good product. I'm putting together an old
beater bike for riding in inclement weather, i.e. it might rain or it just
rained. ;-)

I'd go with a Phil BB but this is a very low budget project. I forgot that
Campy changed from ISO to their own taper ~1994.

The Campy BB means just another one use tool. I have a drawer full of
these kinds of tools.

Does that drawer have a Shimano freewheel tool lurking inside?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

* * Chas wrote:
What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require.
This will be used with a 68mm BSC BB.
I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.
I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in

110mm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and 113mm widths.

use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.

Andrew Muzi

Quoted message said:

This is an older square taper Mirage.
I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.

Chas.

Quoted message said:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=1112&sku=4728&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Brand%3A%20Campagnolo

Quoted message said:

$14.95 before 10% coupon at Nashbar. 68x111mm English. ISO/
Campagnolo taper designed to fit Campagnolo/ISO taper cranks. Not JIS
taper like your Tange bottom bracket.

Thanks for reminding me about the Campy/ISO taper differences. This is the
first crank with the Campy tapers that I've acquired.

I've been using Phil, Shimano, IRD and Tange BBs. I would have used a Phil
BB except this is a low budget beater bike project for winter riding, i.e.
it just rained or it might rain.

At the rate I'm going our rainy season will be over before I get this
thing on the road. ;-)

Chas.

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>> * * Chas wrote:
>>> What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require.

This

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> will be
>>> used with a 68mm BSC BB.
>> I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info

anymore.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>> I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in

110mm

Quoted message said:

> and
>>> 113mm widths.

Quoted message said:

> "A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.

Quoted message said:

* * Chas wrote:
> This is an older square taper Mirage.
> I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.

Quoted message said:

Really? What exactly? We haven't.
Nice product overall. Sure, the solid spindle version is a bit

heavier.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

These are also sold under other names such as "Real" with a good

history.

Quoted message said:

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I remember reading negative comments about problems with the early

Campy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sealed bearing BB cartridges in this NG and other places. I don't

recall

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the details because they didn't apply to anything that I was using at

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

time.

Glad to hear that this is a good product. I'm putting together an old
beater bike for riding in inclement weather, i.e. it might rain or it

just

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rained. ;-)

I'd go with a Phil BB but this is a very low budget project. I forgot

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Campy changed from ISO to their own taper ~1994.

The Campy BB means just another one use tool. I have a drawer full of
these kinds of tools.

Does that drawer have a Shimano freewheel tool lurking inside?

Do you mean one of the old big ones that have flats on top of the splines?

If so, yes I have one.

Shimano's 34 tooth freewheels were a lot lighter than Suntour's because
they had spokes on all on the larger cogs instead of holes. Used them for
early MTB and off road.

This tool would somewhat work with the low end Maillard FWs.

Chas.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Donald Gillies said:

It used to be possible to answer such questions online, here :
http://www.campagnolo.com/spares/spares07_B.pdf
But i see that although the catalogues specify the BB widths (111 mm
double, 115.5 mm triple), they no longer say if there is a drive-side
offset to the bottom brackets. Does anyone here have a list of the
offsets on the modern square-taper campy BB's (double and triple,
record/chorus and centaur/ACH/ACS) ?? Thanx,

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Modern BB sets are symmetric with few rare exceptions. When you see only
one dimension, overall length, assume symmetry.

Quoted message said:

Rare exceptions? 111mm is the length of the Campagnolo triple bottom
brackets. But the Record and Chorus 111mm is symmetric or asymmetric
while the 111mm Mirage/Veloce/Centaur/AC-H/AC-S bottom bracket is the
opposite. They are both 111mm but they are not interchangeable. You
match the bottom bracket and crankset. Maybe its rare for Shimano but
its been this wasy for the past 10-15 years with Campagnolo.

I think we agree.
We agree there's a CHR-REC, currently produced, asymmetric 111 SqT BB*.

That's unusual today. How unusual? Name another one.

Not Tange. Not Shimano. Not FUNN. Not IRD. Not Sugino. Not SRAM.
Yes, Phil Wood will make up anything your heart desires but I'd consider
that custom. So the Chorus/Record is so rare it may be unique. I wrote
that and you apparently agree, yes?

[*] I really can't see or measure the left-right differential. They look
symmetric to me. Campagnolo-USA assures us they are offset. Is that why
you wrote "symmetric or asymmetric"?? I'm not excited about the putative
'asymmetry'. Classic offset spindles have the potential to be 'flipped'
for various chainline adjustments. The 111 CHR-REC won't give you a
useful difference. With their 'triple bearing' you could only flip the
Italian one anyway. And then to no avail.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

* * Chas said:

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >> * * Chas wrote:
> >>> What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require.

This

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > will be
> >>> used with a 68mm BSC BB.
> >> I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info

anymore.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >>> I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in
110mm
> > and
> >>> 113mm widths.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > "A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >> use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> * * Chas wrote:
> > This is an older square taper Mirage.
> > I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Really? What exactly? We haven't.
> Nice product overall. Sure, the solid spindle version is a bit

heavier.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> These are also sold under other names such as "Real" with a good
history.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
>www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I remember reading negative comments about problems with the early

Campy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sealed bearing BB cartridges in this NG and other places. I don't

recall

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the details because they didn't apply to anything that I was using at

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

time.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Glad to hear that this is a good product. I'm putting together an old
beater bike for riding in inclement weather, i.e. it might rain or it

just

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rained. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd go with a Phil BB but this is a very low budget project. I forgot

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Campy changed from ISO to their own taper ~1994.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The Campy BB means just another one use tool. I have a drawer full of
these kinds of tools.

Quoted message said:

Does that drawer have a Shimano freewheel tool lurking inside?

Do you mean one of the old big ones that have flats on top of the splines?

No, I mean the last generation tool. The one that will work with the
DA 7400 FWs and the currently available Shimano 7SP FWs.

Quoted message said:

If so, yes I have one.

Shimano's 34 tooth freewheels were a lot lighter than Suntour's because
they had spokes on all on the larger cogs instead of holes. Used them for
early MTB and off road.

This tool would somewhat work with the low end Maillard FWs.

Chas

* * Chas said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> * * Chas wrote:
> What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require.
> This will be used with a 68mm BSC BB.
> I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.
> I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in

110mm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> and 113mm widths.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Andrew Muzi

This is an older square taper Mirage.
I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.

Quoted message said:

Chas.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=1112&...

Quoted message said:

$14.95 before 10% coupon at Nashbar. 68x111mm English. ISO/
Campagnolo taper designed to fit Campagnolo/ISO taper cranks. Not JIS
taper like your Tange bottom bracket.

Thanks for reminding me about the Campy/ISO taper differences. This is the
first crank with the Campy tapers that I've acquired.

I've been using Phil, Shimano, IRD and Tange BBs. I would have used a Phil
BB except this is a low budget beater bike project for winter riding, i.e.
it just rained or it might rain.

At the rate I'm going our rainy season will be over before I get this
thing on the road. ;-)

Chas.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If its an infrequently ridden beater bike made up with whatever
components you can find, then the taper difference might not mean
much. Crank goes on a little more or less than its supposed to and
may or may not destroy the crank sooner or later than normal. If you
already have the JIS bottom brackets laying around, use them. If you
are buying a new bottom bracket, then might as well get the Campagnolo/
ISO one. Its only $15.

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Donald Gillies wrote:
> It used to be possible to answer such questions online, here :
> http://www.campagnolo.com/spares/spares07_B.pdf
> But i see that although the catalogues specify the BB widths (111 mm
> double, 115.5 mm triple), they no longer say if there is a drive-side
> offset to the bottom brackets. Does anyone here have a list of the
> offsets on the modern square-taper campy BB's (double and triple,
> record/chorus and centaur/ACH/ACS) ?? Thanx,

A Muzi said:

Modern BB sets are symmetric with few rare exceptions. When you see only
one dimension, overall length, assume symmetry.

Quoted message said:

Rare exceptions? 111mm is the length of the Campagnolo triple bottom
brackets. But the Record and Chorus 111mm is symmetric or asymmetric
while the 111mm Mirage/Veloce/Centaur/AC-H/AC-S bottom bracket is the
opposite. They are both 111mm but they are not interchangeable. You
match the bottom bracket and crankset. Maybe its rare for Shimano but
its been this wasy for the past 10-15 years with Campagnolo.

I think we agree.
We agree there's a CHR-REC, currently produced, asymmetric 111 SqT BB*.

That's unusual today. How unusual? Name another one.

Not Tange. Not Shimano. Not FUNN. Not IRD. Not Sugino. Not SRAM.
Yes, Phil Wood will make up anything your heart desires but I'd consider
that custom. So the Chorus/Record is so rare it may be unique. I wrote
that and you apparently agree, yes?

We have a different definition of rare. By your definition the Mazda
RX-7 is rare. Or at least the rotary engine version RX-7. It was the
only commercially produced car with a rotary engine. At least for
many decades. I saw them frequently enough that I did not consider
them too rare. Haven't looked but I bet there are a few of them
listed in the classifieds today. I suspect Madison still has more
than a few on the streets. If you see something every day or at least
every week and can buy it for not a lot of money every day of the
week, is it rare? Just because its the only one made a certain way
does not mean its rare. Are Brooks saddles rare because they are the
only leather tensioned saddle still made? Actually there may be the
Lepper brand still around.

On the Triple Bypass last year I saw quite a few Record and Chorus
triples using the supposedly rare 111mm asymmetric bottom bracket.
Hard to think of it as rare.

Quoted message said:

[*] I really can't see or measure the left-right differential. They look
symmetric to me. Campagnolo-USA assures us they are offset. Is that why
you wrote "symmetric or asymmetric"?? I'm not excited about the putative
'asymmetry'. Classic offset spindles have the potential to be 'flipped'
for various chainline adjustments. The 111 CHR-REC won't give you a
useful difference. With their 'triple bearing' you could only flip the
Italian one anyway. And then to no avail.
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for reminding me about the Campy/ISO taper differences. This is

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

first crank with the Campy tapers that I've acquired.

I've been using Phil, Shimano, IRD and Tange BBs. I would have used a

Phil

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

BB except this is a low budget beater bike project for winter riding,

i.e.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it just rained or it might rain.

At the rate I'm going our rainy season will be over before I get this
thing on the road. ;-)

Chas.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If its an infrequently ridden beater bike made up with whatever
components you can find, then the taper difference might not mean
much. Crank goes on a little more or less than its supposed to and
may or may not destroy the crank sooner or later than normal. If you
already have the JIS bottom brackets laying around, use them. If you
are buying a new bottom bracket, then might as well get the Campagnolo/
ISO one. Its only $15.

Thanks, our rainy season lasts from November through April but last month
it didn't rain much at all.

I paid $25 for the crankset and chainrings.

Chas.